PVRs started.....
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At least the MAA ask and not tell so there is no gripe there, measured and appropriate all the time and sympathetic to the risks we need to take.....................................OR B!!!!!!!!!
I think we should PVR to avoid the old women in the MAA before they infect the real aviators!
I think we should PVR to avoid the old women in the MAA before they infect the real aviators!
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
13. 20-odd pence a mile mileage allowance that only just covers petrol (nothing for the extra insurance premium now required or the wear and tear on the car)
Thefodfather:
I totally agree, they can't win. They can't win, not because Airworthiness Regulation is a popularity contest but because it is an independence contest. The CAA is not popular, try asking any civil aviator be they pilot, engineer or airline, of the massive fees that have to be continuously fed into its maw. But it is effective because it is independent of them. The MAA is part of the MOD and thus is compromised in that vital respect from the word go. Numerous threads on this forum testify to the losses in blood and treasure that have resulted from Regulation and Investigation being within the MOD's control. That is what makes military flying dangerous before you even add an enemy to the equation. The UK military urgently needs a separate and independent MAA and MAAIB, and time is of the essence.
Thread drift? Oh, Sorry! Can I at least have points for mentioning the "A" word only once? No? So be it.
BTW I put in a Formal Official letter (as a Flt Lt) to my Boss requesting PVR over 39 years ago. The next thing I knew I was summoned to London for interview. With quaking knees I reported there, only to find it was my ex-boss, now a Group Captain and supposedly dealing with Wg Cdr's and above only. He had seen my letter go across his desk, stopped it, and asked to see me. Was I going out under a cloud? As it happens I wasn't, but I was one of his guys and he was one of my bosses. Old timers story of old times. I understand it doesn't happen like that now?
MAA get a kicking on this thread and on others complained at for going nowhere near far enough to protect aviators. They can't win either way.
Thread drift? Oh, Sorry! Can I at least have points for mentioning the "A" word only once? No? So be it.
BTW I put in a Formal Official letter (as a Flt Lt) to my Boss requesting PVR over 39 years ago. The next thing I knew I was summoned to London for interview. With quaking knees I reported there, only to find it was my ex-boss, now a Group Captain and supposedly dealing with Wg Cdr's and above only. He had seen my letter go across his desk, stopped it, and asked to see me. Was I going out under a cloud? As it happens I wasn't, but I was one of his guys and he was one of my bosses. Old timers story of old times. I understand it doesn't happen like that now?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Torygraph: Cream of officers bail out of RAF RAF chiefs fear that the “cream” of the air force is leaving after a dozen group captains resigned or asked for voluntary redundancy in the past month, The Daily Telegraph has learnt.
By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent
7:00AM BST 27 Jun 2011
One of the officers had been earmarked to become a future head of the RAF and three others were in line to become at least air vice-marshals.
The news comes as the second-in-command of the RAF warned that morale was becoming “fragile” as the Service faced deep cuts that include 5,000 redundancies. Senior RAF sources have said that the officers decided to quit after they had “seen the writing on the wall” with reductions in equipment and personnel.
The resignations will add further pressure on the Government to reverse the cuts made in last year’s defence review.
At least one of the officers is serving on the staff of the head of the RAF and is known to be privy to future plans for the Service that will see it shrink drastically in size and influence.
The Telegraph reported last week that Air Chief Marshal Sir Simon Bryant, Commander-in-Chief Air Command, had privately told MPs that the RAF would struggle to continue combat operations in Afghanistan and Libya if operations continued beyond September. It is understood that the group captains – the equivalent of a colonel in the Army – have resigned not because of poor morale but because they see far fewer opportunities in a weakened RAF, defence sources said.
By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent
7:00AM BST 27 Jun 2011
One of the officers had been earmarked to become a future head of the RAF and three others were in line to become at least air vice-marshals.
The news comes as the second-in-command of the RAF warned that morale was becoming “fragile” as the Service faced deep cuts that include 5,000 redundancies. Senior RAF sources have said that the officers decided to quit after they had “seen the writing on the wall” with reductions in equipment and personnel.
The resignations will add further pressure on the Government to reverse the cuts made in last year’s defence review.
At least one of the officers is serving on the staff of the head of the RAF and is known to be privy to future plans for the Service that will see it shrink drastically in size and influence.
The Telegraph reported last week that Air Chief Marshal Sir Simon Bryant, Commander-in-Chief Air Command, had privately told MPs that the RAF would struggle to continue combat operations in Afghanistan and Libya if operations continued beyond September. It is understood that the group captains – the equivalent of a colonel in the Army – have resigned not because of poor morale but because they see far fewer opportunities in a weakened RAF, defence sources said.
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I left in 2003 so I have no idea how the process works.
However, it cannot be legal in the workplace (any workplace) to force an employee to use their own resources at a net loss.
Aside from legal or otherwise...a simple "my car is broken/away/sold etc etc" can hardly be challenged...can it
However, it cannot be legal in the workplace (any workplace) to force an employee to use their own resources at a net loss.
Aside from legal or otherwise...a simple "my car is broken/away/sold etc etc" can hardly be challenged...can it
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I find the various items on high paid people leaving interesting.
Are these people seeing the light and stepping off the treadmill? They are on huge pensions after all (ok...relatively huge).
How many are going to chase other careers; how many are simply cashing in their chips for a place in the sun?
And are these high level PVRs of any relevance to a 38 year old working pilot with a young family to feed?
These are rhetorical questions...I don't know the answers. I have however been following some recent articles by social commentators various, that suggests the credit crunch has generated a "step change" in attitude amongst the professional classes...something along the lines of...
"If I'm gonna knock my pans out chasing riches only for some a**oles to come along and take it all away, what's the point? Better to ring fence what I've got and grow happily old in the sun."
Food for thought, don't you think?
PS If you want to know what I consider to be a decent pension...25K upwards will provide a very nice lifestyle for someone who has zero debt (ie has paid off their mortgage) and no responsibility burdens (ie the kids have left the nest and the missus has her own dosh)
Are these people seeing the light and stepping off the treadmill? They are on huge pensions after all (ok...relatively huge).
How many are going to chase other careers; how many are simply cashing in their chips for a place in the sun?
And are these high level PVRs of any relevance to a 38 year old working pilot with a young family to feed?
These are rhetorical questions...I don't know the answers. I have however been following some recent articles by social commentators various, that suggests the credit crunch has generated a "step change" in attitude amongst the professional classes...something along the lines of...
"If I'm gonna knock my pans out chasing riches only for some a**oles to come along and take it all away, what's the point? Better to ring fence what I've got and grow happily old in the sun."
Food for thought, don't you think?
PS If you want to know what I consider to be a decent pension...25K upwards will provide a very nice lifestyle for someone who has zero debt (ie has paid off their mortgage) and no responsibility burdens (ie the kids have left the nest and the missus has her own dosh)
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Apologies...
Circa 24K net (app 2K per month straight into your hipper) The tax burden on this amount is pretty small anyway. Unless you have a second income...in which case my point is irrelevant as you are probably minted.
Circa 24K net (app 2K per month straight into your hipper) The tax burden on this amount is pretty small anyway. Unless you have a second income...in which case my point is irrelevant as you are probably minted.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
TOFO, you make a valid point. I was once slated for a duty visit to another unit about 70 miles away. MT would not provide a vehicle but insisted I use the train. The rail head for the other unit was over 30 miles away so they would have had to drive over 120 miles against my oown unit mileage of 140.
The most senior officer in the CoC on the station was my flt lt captain. I agreed I would use my own car provided there was a retrospective authorisation for golden wheels - or else. Wheels were subsequently approved.
As for being required to provide a supplementary MT service having once had golden wheels, as pointed out this falls down if Mrs PN was using the car, if the car was being serviced etc.
The point about using your own wheels at peanut rates is simply one of your own convenience.
The most senior officer in the CoC on the station was my flt lt captain. I agreed I would use my own car provided there was a retrospective authorisation for golden wheels - or else. Wheels were subsequently approved.
As for being required to provide a supplementary MT service having once had golden wheels, as pointed out this falls down if Mrs PN was using the car, if the car was being serviced etc.
The point about using your own wheels at peanut rates is simply one of your own convenience.
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ZH875 - Sorry but that is incorrect, neither JPA nor the MoD can force you to use your own car if you choose not to. They are obliged to provide transport of some description at public expense to get you to where they require you to be for work reasons. If you offer to use your car, and they accept, a contract is agreed. If either side do not want to agree that contract, it does not happen and an alternative method of transport will be provided.
If they fail to provide an alternative method of transport you are perfectly entitled to not go, providing you have raised the issue and told the right people far enough in advance - someone else will get trooped, not you.
PS nice to see the usual suspects didn't take too long to turn a thread about an increasing quantity of PVRs into irrelevant airworthiness points. Cheers.
If they fail to provide an alternative method of transport you are perfectly entitled to not go, providing you have raised the issue and told the right people far enough in advance - someone else will get trooped, not you.
PS nice to see the usual suspects didn't take too long to turn a thread about an increasing quantity of PVRs into irrelevant airworthiness points. Cheers.
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I'm hearing as of Wednesday - 1yr PVR times and Zero fg pay for the period. Apparently fg pay is to aide retention and if you are leaving... it's too late. " 
" all cooperation for that last year then.
That could be a 20% pay cut. Now imagine trying to man manage a chap[ess] that has had a 20% pay cut and see how much work you get out of them! Again, it is those that are left, that will feel the pinch!
SIA
" all cooperation for that last year then. That could be a 20% pay cut. Now imagine trying to man manage a chap[ess] that has had a 20% pay cut and see how much work you get out of them! Again, it is those that are left, that will feel the pinch!
SIA
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SIA,
I had a saying for this style of bat stuffing...
You can only fire me once.
I know PVR is not them ditching you, but the outcome is the same. I never had to endure this...my flying pay was paid until the day I left. But it was oft muted as an idea in my day and I thought, in the words of the song...Oh what fun we'll have....
Twelve months of not giving a sh1t. Imagine the possibilities. (Or watch a few old Bilko episodes, that'll give you a few ideas)
I had a saying for this style of bat stuffing...
You can only fire me once.
I know PVR is not them ditching you, but the outcome is the same. I never had to endure this...my flying pay was paid until the day I left. But it was oft muted as an idea in my day and I thought, in the words of the song...Oh what fun we'll have....
Twelve months of not giving a sh1t. Imagine the possibilities. (Or watch a few old Bilko episodes, that'll give you a few ideas)
Champagne anyone...?
I'm hearing as of Wednesday - 1yr PVR times
Just how can the RAF have degnerated into such utter rat-**** so quickly?
It cannot just have been the legacy of Trust-me-Tone and his Bush bum-sucking 'bring-a-bottle wars' and the gross underfunding of the Armed Forces under the liars of nuLabor, can it?
How can even the morons of the MoD-box believe that cutting flying pay for 12 months will not be utterly corrosive?
No wonder so many Gp Capts are PVR-ing.
Good luck, Stoppers - and to everyone else in the same leaking, rotting boat...
It cannot just have been the legacy of Trust-me-Tone and his Bush bum-sucking 'bring-a-bottle wars' and the gross underfunding of the Armed Forces under the liars of nuLabor, can it?
How can even the morons of the MoD-box believe that cutting flying pay for 12 months will not be utterly corrosive?
No wonder so many Gp Capts are PVR-ing.
Good luck, Stoppers - and to everyone else in the same leaking, rotting boat...
I suspect that Stoppers is no longer receiving flying pay, so won't lose out financially by PVRing. Although this won't apply to everyone who PVRs obviously.
A semi retrospective increase in waiting time prior to exit from 6 to 12 months is certainly a kick in the teeth however......
A semi retrospective increase in waiting time prior to exit from 6 to 12 months is certainly a kick in the teeth however......
Utter Sh!te
It pains me to say this, but it is really sad to be one of those who is either getting cheesed off or wants to exit sharpish because of the way GB Mil as a whole is being systematically paired down to nothing, with the capability of doing next-to-nothing in such short order. Sadder still is listening to the first-tourists around the bazaars bemoaning the fact that even they feel 'under-valued' and somewhat put upon. GB Plc relies so heavily on the goodwill of her troops of all creeds/services/cap badges etc. to get the job done, mostly through dint of professional pride and not wanting to let the side down. It can only rely on this goodwill for so long...the cuts are coming too fast and too deep...we are just as vulnerable as the teachers/doctors/nurses as we are soooo easy to thumb over by any government. I've met and talked to Fox; like all politicos he came across as aloof and supercilious. He should have stuck to scab lifting.
I am trapped for another couple of years, but will pull the Y&B as soon as I'm in a position to do so; notwithstanding the fact that it 'aint necessarily greener grass out there, just I get to choose which lawn I stand on....
I am trapped for another couple of years, but will pull the Y&B as soon as I'm in a position to do so; notwithstanding the fact that it 'aint necessarily greener grass out there, just I get to choose which lawn I stand on....