PVRs started.....
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
MGD, what is long gone? The loyalty two-way street or the single minded route to the stars?
That a large number of SOs are jumping might suggest that they see the two-way street is actually a dead-end.
That a large number of SOs are jumping might suggest that they see the two-way street is actually a dead-end.
The 2 way street.
Many of those SO's jumping are not jumping because they disagree with the poor way things are run, or for ideological reasons; they are jumping because their personal options for future greatness are closing one by one.
Many of those SO's jumping are not jumping because they disagree with the poor way things are run, or for ideological reasons; they are jumping because their personal options for future greatness are closing one by one.
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If the retention situation is as bad as postulated, then it would be advisable for the "Powers That Be" to ensure that nobody mentions to those pondering leaving the "Sinking Ship" that if they become RESIDENT Overseas then they are no longer liable for recall to HM Forces. 
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Many of those SO's jumping are not jumping because they disagree with the poor way things are run, or for ideological reasons; they are jumping because their personal options for future greatness are closing one by one.
I suspect you are close to hitting the nail...not just SO but anybody who is relatively well set up already.
VR
Earlier I was sceptical about this developing into a full bloom aircrew exodus. Potentially, I stand corrected. I still think civvy air not the pull factor for many, but I confess I might have under estimated the push factor for many of those doing the math and thinking....
a. I can do better than this.
or
b. S*d it...I can get by on what I've already got stashed.
You could well be right sir.
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Exodus......
I'm one of those that went for the exit in 1989 at the end of the Cold War and can't say that I've ever looked back with any regrets.....Saying so may sound that I'm gloating which is the last thing on my mind. What concerns me is how's this going to end.....
Ok, we all know the country is broke and can't afford to maintain the armed forces we once could. The problem is knowing when it's going to stop. If we all knew that a 10% cut, or even a 20% cut would be the end of the story then we could perhaps cope. What is so unsettling is the compounded cuts year after year and now there are new "black holes" in the MoD's budget, which can hardly be a surprise given the un-funded wars in Iraq, Afg and now Libya.
The problem soon will not be asking for volunteers to take an early bath, but how to ensure that there is enough people left to field a team. At this rate of sink it will be very hard to pull out of the dive......never mind the over-stress.....the airframe's already been bent too far!
All this made worse by a sense of mistrust and poor leadership from above, which the coalition government has done little to improve, or even to understand.
MB
Ok, we all know the country is broke and can't afford to maintain the armed forces we once could. The problem is knowing when it's going to stop. If we all knew that a 10% cut, or even a 20% cut would be the end of the story then we could perhaps cope. What is so unsettling is the compounded cuts year after year and now there are new "black holes" in the MoD's budget, which can hardly be a surprise given the un-funded wars in Iraq, Afg and now Libya.
The problem soon will not be asking for volunteers to take an early bath, but how to ensure that there is enough people left to field a team. At this rate of sink it will be very hard to pull out of the dive......never mind the over-stress.....the airframe's already been bent too far!
All this made worse by a sense of mistrust and poor leadership from above, which the coalition government has done little to improve, or even to understand.
MB
CASBO,
Can you put a rough number on the PVRs at Brize? Is this really something that's going to be catastrophic in 12 months...?
At the other end of the country and not in 2Gp so out of the loop.
Can you put a rough number on the PVRs at Brize? Is this really something that's going to be catastrophic in 12 months...?
At the other end of the country and not in 2Gp so out of the loop.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
MGD, we are in agreement then, the two-way street bit. Mind you, it has been one-way almost as far back as I can remember, with exceptions of course.
One instance that I tried to drum in to the ranks was you owed allegiance only to yourself and you worked only for your immediate RO. If he was a pillock heaven help you.
How many people have you seen working hard for the Service, and being loyal to their mates of course, often to the detriment of their resettlement, their famil and their future life?
I think it was Wallace Kyle who said that anyone who took more than a week's leave was disloyal and the counter was you could measure your impact by taking your hand out of a bucket of water and looking at the hole that was left.
One instance that I tried to drum in to the ranks was you owed allegiance only to yourself and you worked only for your immediate RO. If he was a pillock heaven help you.
How many people have you seen working hard for the Service, and being loyal to their mates of course, often to the detriment of their resettlement, their famil and their future life?
I think it was Wallace Kyle who said that anyone who took more than a week's leave was disloyal and the counter was you could measure your impact by taking your hand out of a bucket of water and looking at the hole that was left.
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Wonder how many Navs facing the sack, sorry, redundancy, could be re-assessed for pilot training?
Standing by for incoming flack.
Anyway, seem to remeber a comment by a VSO some years ago when asked whether he was worried by the number of people PVRing. Response was something along the lines of "those displaying that level of 'commitment' wouldn't be the sort of people they'd want to retain anyway."
One wonders if that supercillious attitude is still in place.
Standing by for incoming flack.
Anyway, seem to remeber a comment by a VSO some years ago when asked whether he was worried by the number of people PVRing. Response was something along the lines of "those displaying that level of 'commitment' wouldn't be the sort of people they'd want to retain anyway."
One wonders if that supercillious attitude is still in place.
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Does anyone know how many QSPs there are in the RAF today? Breakdown of multi, rotary and FJ. It would be interesting to know what % of each variant have PVR'd in the last month.
Ps. How can the higher ups think the Air Force is anything but utterly broken and moral in freefall when they are using PVR waiting times and zero flying pay as a stick?
Ps. How can the higher ups think the Air Force is anything but utterly broken and moral in freefall when they are using PVR waiting times and zero flying pay as a stick?
I'd be very interested to here. I was thinking the other day that there haven't been any PVRs from my squadron, but with more thought it's because it's so highly diluted. First tourists don't tend to PVR!
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PVRs have always been exaggerated in the past and the RAF tend not to care too much about the individuals who PVR. I suspect the tactics employed by manning recently (e.g. no extensions, no PAS offers, threats of ground tours) are all factors they know will result in PVRs, which leads me to think that is what they want; they want you to take an option or PVR.
Where I do not understand it though is why allied with this the RAF have just got rid of 170+ pilots in the training pipelines. I guess this frees up QFIs to go back to the front line sqns, but ultimately the RAF will be short of junior guys for the future and QFIs to train them. I suppose this is just the start of the reorg for MFTS.
Be interesting to know the numbers PVRing though.
Where I do not understand it though is why allied with this the RAF have just got rid of 170+ pilots in the training pipelines. I guess this frees up QFIs to go back to the front line sqns, but ultimately the RAF will be short of junior guys for the future and QFIs to train them. I suppose this is just the start of the reorg for MFTS.
Be interesting to know the numbers PVRing though.
I've heard from one source of large numbers at Brize, and from another of equally large percentages from Odiham.
As per my previous post though, if you look at some FJ fleets, the fact that the front line squadrons have such a high percentage of first tourists means the PVR rate is tiny.
As per my previous post though, if you look at some FJ fleets, the fact that the front line squadrons have such a high percentage of first tourists means the PVR rate is tiny.
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Flying pay goes down to 0% from 1/4/12.
If they've changed the rules without sufficient notice, they lay themselves wide open for a legal battle.
There are many more push factors than pull factors. However those pull factors are very strong
If they've changed the rules without sufficient notice, they lay themselves wide open for a legal battle.
There are many more push factors than pull factors. However those pull factors are very strong
You must be on a fleet with a higher flying rate than mine! With people frequently slipping into VERY low numbers per month, the idea of having enough hours to make it viable is the fevered dream of a madman.
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Well, i'm not PVRing (yet!) but with the cumulative effect of allowances reform (not even close to covering costs) and JPA audits (being accused of fraud/thievery every time i place a claim) and continually being asked to do more with less...there's no support for those left in the job.
I agree with the comments above about 1st tourists - when i were a lad, you were always keen, seldom sober and in a Service that supported you in that job. Now, like all of us, their hindrances are fast outweighing their motivations - a very sorry state of affairs indeed.
Like many, i'm certainly questioning why i'm still here, and in truth just waiting for a better offer...
I agree with the comments above about 1st tourists - when i were a lad, you were always keen, seldom sober and in a Service that supported you in that job. Now, like all of us, their hindrances are fast outweighing their motivations - a very sorry state of affairs indeed.
Like many, i'm certainly questioning why i'm still here, and in truth just waiting for a better offer...