LIBYA (Merged) Use this thread ONLY
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Malta
The Mediterranean island of Malta grants use of its air space to enforce a no-fly zone on Libya. Prime Minister Lawrence Gonzi however says that Malta "will not be used as a military base for the enforcement of the no-fly zone."
The Mediterranean island of Malta grants use of its air space to enforce a no-fly zone on Libya. Prime Minister Lawrence Gonzi however says that Malta "will not be used as a military base for the enforcement of the no-fly zone."
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Just been watching the news with respect to comments by Mr Cameron and the speech made by Barrack Oblimey in the States.
As a matter on interest how many countries in the League of Arab States, that will be part of the NFZ coalition, are democracies and how many are ruled by the will of the “free” people. How many of these countries are actually having their own difficulties with demonstrations and uprisings (admittedly on a much smaller scale).
I think most of us know the answer to these questions but, with this NFZ, could we be sending the wrong message to the people of Bahrain, Saudi and other countries. The message being if you are not in a democratic country, rise up against your leaders and we will come and support you.
Let’s stop beating about the bush and stop using democracy, when it suits us, as an excuse to get rid of the bad people of the world, especially when oil is involved. The hypocrisy of this policy has sent the wrong message around the world, which has in turn led to an increase in radical beliefs within the Muslim world and an increase in terrorism. (anybody read the book written by Peter Arnett)
Let’s just say it as it is……..”Libya is full of oil, Gaddafi is a bad bloke, we don’t like him and he has to go. It has nothing to do with democracy, but his ruling is a danger to world stability”. “Oh, and by the way if we like your ruling party or you don’t have oil then tough cr@p, we cannot and will not intervene in the internal problems of another country”.
With the kind of hypocrisy shown by our “free world leaders” we will never have a peaceful and stable world. On the contrary, it will only create more problems in an already pretty f%%ked up world.
The term “lessons learnt” don’t seem to exist in the politicians minds and history books certainly do not exist.
Finally (and I hope I don’t get run down by an unmarked black car for saying this) but has anybody noticed how Mr Cameron is enjoying that feeling of power now that he is on the world stage. And during his speech today about the NFZ, he was so desperate to say that it was his idea a few weeks ago.
Yet another PM that wants to be as great as somebody like Win C or Maggie T. Sorry mate, but like Tony B, you are nowhere near in their league of being a truly inspirational leader like they were.
As a matter on interest how many countries in the League of Arab States, that will be part of the NFZ coalition, are democracies and how many are ruled by the will of the “free” people. How many of these countries are actually having their own difficulties with demonstrations and uprisings (admittedly on a much smaller scale).
I think most of us know the answer to these questions but, with this NFZ, could we be sending the wrong message to the people of Bahrain, Saudi and other countries. The message being if you are not in a democratic country, rise up against your leaders and we will come and support you.
Let’s stop beating about the bush and stop using democracy, when it suits us, as an excuse to get rid of the bad people of the world, especially when oil is involved. The hypocrisy of this policy has sent the wrong message around the world, which has in turn led to an increase in radical beliefs within the Muslim world and an increase in terrorism. (anybody read the book written by Peter Arnett)
Let’s just say it as it is……..”Libya is full of oil, Gaddafi is a bad bloke, we don’t like him and he has to go. It has nothing to do with democracy, but his ruling is a danger to world stability”. “Oh, and by the way if we like your ruling party or you don’t have oil then tough cr@p, we cannot and will not intervene in the internal problems of another country”.
With the kind of hypocrisy shown by our “free world leaders” we will never have a peaceful and stable world. On the contrary, it will only create more problems in an already pretty f%%ked up world.
The term “lessons learnt” don’t seem to exist in the politicians minds and history books certainly do not exist.
Finally (and I hope I don’t get run down by an unmarked black car for saying this) but has anybody noticed how Mr Cameron is enjoying that feeling of power now that he is on the world stage. And during his speech today about the NFZ, he was so desperate to say that it was his idea a few weeks ago.
Yet another PM that wants to be as great as somebody like Win C or Maggie T. Sorry mate, but like Tony B, you are nowhere near in their league of being a truly inspirational leader like they were.
Originally Posted by justanopinion
Slight but significant snag in the suggested use of Sigonella - the only aviation fuel available is F44, despite what the ERS says. Now guess which was the ONLY fast jet that used to be available in the UK stable, that could use F44, and indeed any aviation fuel - yep,the Harrier. I know i know, it's gone but it would have been useful eh?
Mmm - and while we are at it - the VC10 is no longer allowed to use Jet A - and guess which is the most used aviation fuel at civvy bases is -
Sooooo - planned use of NAS Sigonella for Typhoon or GR4 - delete.
Mmm - and while we are at it - the VC10 is no longer allowed to use Jet A - and guess which is the most used aviation fuel at civvy bases is -
Sooooo - planned use of NAS Sigonella for Typhoon or GR4 - delete.
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Willard Whyte
So what do you do, bury your head in the sand, pretend it’s not happening, and live your life, not appreciating all those in the forces about to embark on yet another operation to keep your nice little life safe and sound.
You are not making that statement to a bunch of people who just sit here randomly talking about world affairs, you are making that statement to many who have been involved or are likely to be involved in the very near future in a war.
I should imagine that your main worry in life is how much more the price of fuel will go up rather than how many of our lads and lasses might lose their lives.
Jeezus h-c-rhist you people need to get a life
You are not making that statement to a bunch of people who just sit here randomly talking about world affairs, you are making that statement to many who have been involved or are likely to be involved in the very near future in a war.
I should imagine that your main worry in life is how much more the price of fuel will go up rather than how many of our lads and lasses might lose their lives.
Last edited by SRENNAPS; 19th Mar 2011 at 07:06.
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JAJ
I wish you could use F44/(JP5) - deploying you would be a bit easier. Your ILOC sent an updated list a few months ago and i can assure you it was not on it - i would be delighted if it now is and the list was wrong, that indeed would be excellent news.
I wish you could use F44/(JP5) - deploying you would be a bit easier. Your ILOC sent an updated list a few months ago and i can assure you it was not on it - i would be delighted if it now is and the list was wrong, that indeed would be excellent news.
Good analysis of the Libyan SAM Network. Link at the bottom of following webpage.
The Libyan SAM Network
TJ
The Libyan SAM Network
TJ
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Also www.egpk.co.uk are reporting that 4 CF18s have landed at prestwick between 2100 and 2145 tonight.
blackhand out
blackhand out
Avoid imitations
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Anyone seen our "Middle East Peace Envoy" recently?
If he could be dropped from a great height onto Gadaffi it would solve two problems in one go.
If he could be dropped from a great height onto Gadaffi it would solve two problems in one go.
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[Dons ex-TSW CLA cap for a moment]
The majority of sites that state they only stock F44 are usually only partially right.
F44 is rarely received onto land-based facilities as such, rather it is more often than not supplied as F35 and then blended with the required FP raising and FSII chemicals on site to produce F44. This is purely an economic and ease of supply issue, F35 being far more widely available than any other type of turbine fuel.
As an aside to this I'd be fairly sure that Sig would have stocks of F35 alongside its stocks of of F44 as it is common to allow F35 to 'settle' before running it through a blending rig to ensure built up static can discharge.
All UK military a/c can operate on F35 although F34 is preferred and if this is what is required a blending rig and a a few 136k TFCs is all that would need to be set up. An easy job even in these cash and staff strapped times. We managed to operate Basrah AB and supply all UK F34 requirements in Iraq from such a setup.
The majority of sites that state they only stock F44 are usually only partially right.
F44 is rarely received onto land-based facilities as such, rather it is more often than not supplied as F35 and then blended with the required FP raising and FSII chemicals on site to produce F44. This is purely an economic and ease of supply issue, F35 being far more widely available than any other type of turbine fuel.
As an aside to this I'd be fairly sure that Sig would have stocks of F35 alongside its stocks of of F44 as it is common to allow F35 to 'settle' before running it through a blending rig to ensure built up static can discharge.
All UK military a/c can operate on F35 although F34 is preferred and if this is what is required a blending rig and a a few 136k TFCs is all that would need to be set up. An easy job even in these cash and staff strapped times. We managed to operate Basrah AB and supply all UK F34 requirements in Iraq from such a setup.
Last edited by The Helpful Stacker; 19th Mar 2011 at 00:26.
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R
Be a sweetheart and let Sig ops on both the Italian and US Navy side know then would you - as when i asked 2 months ago if they had any other available fuel other than F44 the answer was 'no'....
As an aside to this I'd be fairly sure that Sig would have stocks of F35 alongside its stocks of of F44 as it is common to allow F35 to 'settle' before running it through a blending rig to ensure built up static can discharge.
Last edited by Justanopinion; 19th Mar 2011 at 02:05.
Originally Posted by justanopinion
JAJ
I wish you could use F44/(JP5) - deploying you would be a bit easier. Your ILOC sent an updated list a few months ago and i can assure you it was not on it - i would be delighted if it now is and the list was wrong, that indeed would be excellent news.
I wish you could use F44/(JP5) - deploying you would be a bit easier. Your ILOC sent an updated list a few months ago and i can assure you it was not on it - i would be delighted if it now is and the list was wrong, that indeed would be excellent news.
I was pretty sure it used to be able to use F44.
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So, how did that happen? No sign of the triple-A tracer we have been constantly seeing from the rebels recently.
I wonder if it is the first 'kill' to the coalition enforcing the UN resolution!
Why do I think that? Well, Benghazi is on the coast and is the main site for any action against the rebels, therefore it would be almost certain that coalition warships would be positioned off the coast there. Given the range of SAM systems on modern warships, especially SM2-ER equipped US ships, then even warships outside Libyan territorial waters would easily have both the range and radar horizon to see and engage an aircraft over the city at the altitude seen in the video. A SAM fired from 20+ miles away would be ballistic by that point, hence to obvious sign of tracer or missile motor plume. Reports from the BBC reporter in the city state that the aircraft was seen overhead for quite some time before going down - plenty of time for any Naval commander to seek clearance from above to engage.
My only concern with the above is that the aircraft went down over the city and I doubt the coalition would risk collateral damage to civilians on the ground in the city - well maybe the Americans wouldn't worry (or have thought) about that.
Just my thoughts - can't beat a bit of immediate speculation
MadMark!!!
I wonder if it is the first 'kill' to the coalition enforcing the UN resolution!
Why do I think that? Well, Benghazi is on the coast and is the main site for any action against the rebels, therefore it would be almost certain that coalition warships would be positioned off the coast there. Given the range of SAM systems on modern warships, especially SM2-ER equipped US ships, then even warships outside Libyan territorial waters would easily have both the range and radar horizon to see and engage an aircraft over the city at the altitude seen in the video. A SAM fired from 20+ miles away would be ballistic by that point, hence to obvious sign of tracer or missile motor plume. Reports from the BBC reporter in the city state that the aircraft was seen overhead for quite some time before going down - plenty of time for any Naval commander to seek clearance from above to engage.
My only concern with the above is that the aircraft went down over the city and I doubt the coalition would risk collateral damage to civilians on the ground in the city - well maybe the Americans wouldn't worry (or have thought) about that.
Just my thoughts - can't beat a bit of immediate speculation
MadMark!!!