"No - really - I wasn't chopped - honestly!"
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During Harvard training in the RCAF we had quite a few make large fatal dents in the ground, after a spate of these my instructor and I were debriefing after a flight when I mentioned that quite a few guys had quit and gone back to civy street and how they must really miss farming/teaching/ working at the familly store ect, my instructor looked at me and said words to the effect,"Your doing fine with you flying but sometimes I think your as dumb as a friggin post! They have quit because they are **** scared you bloody mooron!" This was my introduction to the "twitch" Due to a background of working in a hospital autopsy room as a kid I was the guy who had to do most of the IDs on these guys if there was enough left so it came as a total shock to me that they would quit what was to me the best time of my life. On a different note, if one reads the bios of many of the aces, some had problems in training but turned out to be the best of the best, this includes many ex US Army Air Corps types who joined the RCAF/RAF, later transfered back to the USAAC and became senior comanders, go figure!
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To CharlieGolf - Post #19
He did exist. Was in the days when the Bona Mates did phases of I believe 3 months then onto another phase. He would just get to the point at the end of a phase where he considered himself OK but when back onto next phase, he said it was like he had never done it and so realised he would kill himself, for sure, eventually; hence the balls to fess up and he then went F-4s, back in Germany 2 ATAF actually.
Yes, a brave decision but good for him. He flew F-4s for a while then TP and last I heard was doing Typhoon TP stuff somewhere near Munich (though that was a few years ago) but do not know what he is up to today.
Yes, a brave decision but good for him. He flew F-4s for a while then TP and last I heard was doing Typhoon TP stuff somewhere near Munich (though that was a few years ago) but do not know what he is up to today.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
clunk, very true. I was talking to a nav stude during a hold period in the sim, computer reload or some such.
Turned out he had VW from the RN as he had heard Naval O's talking about Sea Kings ditching and rolling etc and decided it was too dangerous. Maybe true, may be his excuse for being chopped.
Never found out how far he got through nav training.
Turned out he had VW from the RN as he had heard Naval O's talking about Sea Kings ditching and rolling etc and decided it was too dangerous. Maybe true, may be his excuse for being chopped.
Never found out how far he got through nav training.
There was a jolly nice chap on my senior course on JPs. He was sharper than a pair of compasses and he went to Valley with everyone expecting great things of him. But he VW'd half way through citing that he found it all a bit dull and wasn't really challenged by being a pilot. No one believed he would go - but he did. Last heard of making squillions in the city.
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pamac51
was that a detachment that required the Stn Cdr to fly to France with a bag full of francs to clear up the bills and keep a jnr Tech out of jail?
No it wasn't. The one you refer to was Nimes in '82. I spent a very uncomfortable afternoon on the 'phone to some very senior officers in both HQSTC & the Paris embassy while the Stn Cdr was sitting on the pan waiting for me to collect the cash. I also had a couple of loyal siggies guarding the guilty b*****d in order to stop himself from shortening his own life span. The said person was an MT fitter who was along for the ride as a favour from Nasty for servicing his car.
I learnt about flying from that..............
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My FTS course in 50/51 had as our flight commander on Harvards, a very steady chap with DSO, DFC & Bar (Flt Lt Geof Bray). We all wanted to go on multis and eventually a few took the Wellington OCU route, and one even disappeared to the kipper fleet where before being used as a driver airframe one had to learn real navigation on white painted Lancasters. But about two months before graduation Geoff was posted and the new guy, Flt Lt Dean Jones, was a fighter boy through and through. There was a complete change of attitude. He arranged for six Meteors of his old unit to visit us at Ternhill, the smell of avtag was injected into our veins and seven of us went to Valley to become starry eyed killers.
What became of Plt Offs Perry, Smallwood, Price and Lawrence and Sgt Pilots Jones and White?
What became of Plt Offs Perry, Smallwood, Price and Lawrence and Sgt Pilots Jones and White?
Of those who get chopped, what proportion stay in the services?
Presumably if somebody is chopped, but retrains to a different speciality within the services, then it can be assumed that they joined for a military career. If they promptly leave - then presumably they just joined to learn to fly?
Presumably if somebody is chopped, but retrains to a different speciality within the services, then it can be assumed that they joined for a military career. If they promptly leave - then presumably they just joined to learn to fly?
I used to sit next to the son of the then CAS, when I was going through Groundschool at Shawbury. He had been chopped from Valley and streamed rotary. I think FJ had been his dream as he left soon after to work in the city.
I hope he is doing well, he was a good guy and determined his father's rank cast the minimum of shadow over his own performance.
I hope he is doing well, he was a good guy and determined his father's rank cast the minimum of shadow over his own performance.
Trim,
I got chopped on JPs ("Nice aeros, but the nearer you get to the ground, the worse you get" was the gist of my chop ride debrief), and I left as soon as possible after being withdrawn from flying training. I didn't think that I could stand being around those that could do what I had always wanted to do since I was a boy. I now regret that hasty decision, as I loved being in the RAF, and was proud to be a commissioned officer. If I have one criticism of that time post-chop, it was that no one made any effort to try and assess if I was really doing the right thing. I think that I could easily have been pursuaded to go nav, or try another branch.
Of course, there's always the possibility that I wasn't deemed to be a great loss to the officer cadre . . . .
I got chopped on JPs ("Nice aeros, but the nearer you get to the ground, the worse you get" was the gist of my chop ride debrief), and I left as soon as possible after being withdrawn from flying training. I didn't think that I could stand being around those that could do what I had always wanted to do since I was a boy. I now regret that hasty decision, as I loved being in the RAF, and was proud to be a commissioned officer. If I have one criticism of that time post-chop, it was that no one made any effort to try and assess if I was really doing the right thing. I think that I could easily have been pursuaded to go nav, or try another branch.
Of course, there's always the possibility that I wasn't deemed to be a great loss to the officer cadre . . . .
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I was 'chopped' - well, I prefer the term 'medically suspended' from FJ training on the Hawk at Valley in '83. No complaints. The RAF had given me 2 goes at Farnborough on the spin table and doing all the aerobatic Hunter stuff with the superb Mike Bagshaw.
At the end of the second spell at Farnborough I returned to Valley and was sent up with an ex Lightning jock (JF) for some SCT. The deal was, if I could prevent the contents of my stomach from decorating the inside of the canopy I could continue on the course. We came back with multiple +6 g readings on the accelerometer and 3 blue bags bursting to capacity. Game over.
Whilst I knew what was coming I could still smile at the entry JF made in the Auth sheets when we signed in - 'DNCO - Student Cat 5'
Still, it all worked out well in the end. I now have the best seat in the house on a B744F.
At the end of the second spell at Farnborough I returned to Valley and was sent up with an ex Lightning jock (JF) for some SCT. The deal was, if I could prevent the contents of my stomach from decorating the inside of the canopy I could continue on the course. We came back with multiple +6 g readings on the accelerometer and 3 blue bags bursting to capacity. Game over.
Whilst I knew what was coming I could still smile at the entry JF made in the Auth sheets when we signed in - 'DNCO - Student Cat 5'
Still, it all worked out well in the end. I now have the best seat in the house on a B744F.
Only +6g? He can't have been trying! JF pulled a lot more than that one dark night in his Lightning - realising something wasn't quite right about his intercept, he pulled his head out of the B-scope to see nothing but black on the attitude indicator; the nadir star was dead centre and slowly rotating. Too fast for airbrakes, idle/idle and PULL....snoooooze....wake up climbing slowly through about 400 ft with the speed dropping through 200KIAS. Burners, recover, then home for new trousers!
But his 'little event' provided valuable fatigue data for the rest of Lightning fleet - and it seems that they had more life left in them than BWoS had previously thought.
Apparently he had lace marks from his turning-trousers imprinted on his legs for weeks afterwards.
But his 'little event' provided valuable fatigue data for the rest of Lightning fleet - and it seems that they had more life left in them than BWoS had previously thought.
Apparently he had lace marks from his turning-trousers imprinted on his legs for weeks afterwards.
Reminds me of the RN and RAF chopped pilots on their JATCC at RAF Shawbury, neither of whom should have been chopped (naturally!!) They spent so long bemoaning their fate that they both knew each others story verbatim. They hold court in the bar and would tell anyone who expressed a vague interest about not only their own story of how the military had missed out on a future Red Arrow/Sea Harrier pilot, but also the other guys story too. One day in advance sim the RAF chap stood up halfway through a busy slot, took his headset off and with the words 'I don't want to do this crap anymore' walked out of the sim. He was found in his room about 15 mins later, and about 30 mins after was (via the Station Commander) off the station. Without his mate to banter with the RN bloke was chopped a week or so later. Moral of the story... it is a big big disappointment getting chopped, but if you don't move on you'll continue to fail.
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Donīt push your kids too far !!
I had a student at RAF Valley who was a very poor pilot & had great difficulty flying the Vampire T11. Yet he was a wonderful guy/officer (Course Leader). I gave him extra hours instruction (claiming an instructional Dual flight had only lasted 50 minutes - whereas it had lasted 60 or 65 minutes) & then, finally, suggested a change of Instructor might help. It didnīt !! He was eventually paraded in front of the C.O. to be suspended. But before the CO started to talk he said, "Sir, I know exactly why I am here & itīs the Happiest Day of my Life !! Now I can go home & tell my father (an ex RAF Group Captain pilot) & say, "Father, Iīm NO BLOODY GOOD. I CANīT FLY !!!!!!. All my life youīve told me Iīm going to be a pilot ... & I HATED the idea !! But I love the RAF - & can I PLEASE stay in as an Administrator, Sir" !! (He did !!). 
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It takes all types ....... !!
During my time at RAF Heany in S. Rhodesia, a fellow student had just completed a NIGHT cross country exercise with his instructor. They flew to points A,B, & C & then returned to base. Another 3 different turning points were given to the student & he was told to go off again - SOLO this time - & call on the radio when over each turning point. His radio calls were received on time by the control tower. Next morning the overnight local police security patrol reported that a Harvard aircraft had been noticed that had its engine running - & with all its lights off in a remote corner of the (grass) airfield during the night, for about an hour ?? - Very unusual ?? It hadnt been noticed by Air Traffic Control that he hadnt actually taken off !! He had made his radio calls on time - but he didnt even leave the ground !!. He said the trip went well to his instructor. Scared of flying SOLO at night. Suspended immediately. 
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The word 'Chopped' itself sums up the flying training system.
During my time at RAF Heany in S. Rhodesia, a fellow student had just completed a NIGHT cross country exercise with his instructor. They flew to points A,B, & C & then returned to base. Another 3 different turning points were given to the student & he was told to go off again - SOLO this time - & call on the radio when over each turning point. His radio calls were received on time by the control tower. Next morning the overnight local police security patrol reported that a Harvard aircraft had been noticed that had its engine running - & with all its lights off in a remote corner of the (grass) airfield during the night, for about an hour ?? - Very unusual ?? It hadnt been noticed by Air Traffic Control that he hadnt actually taken off !! He had made his radio calls on time - but he didnt even leave the ground !!. He said the trip went well to his instructor. Scared of flying SOLO at night. Suspended immediately.
Sounds like the PNG students at Point Cook (before some egotistical senior officer abandoned it!
).Apparently one of them launched on his solo medium level navex and orbitted behind a range of hills (You Yangs, SW of Melbourne) giving position reports. I think he got discovered by a staff shepherd aircraft.
Occasionally, the 'staff shepherd' can get a bit of a surprise...
Back in the early 1970s, a student at one UK FTS was thought to be rather timid about low level navigation and was constantly being told that he was too high during his dual trips.
So when he was sent off on a solo LL navex, a staff chase aircraft set off just after him....
The student turned out to be very far from being timid at low level and was right down in the weeds for his entire trip - far lower than the staff pilot was prepared to fly!
Back in the early 1970s, a student at one UK FTS was thought to be rather timid about low level navigation and was constantly being told that he was too high during his dual trips.
So when he was sent off on a solo LL navex, a staff chase aircraft set off just after him....
The student turned out to be very far from being timid at low level and was right down in the weeds for his entire trip - far lower than the staff pilot was prepared to fly!
Gentleman Aviator
Thread Starter
what's the best way to be given the news?
"Wot does yer mother call you Bloggs?"
"Nigel Sir"
"Well Nigel, yer chopped!"