"No - really - I wasn't chopped - honestly!"
Someone Else Remembers
At a ground officers training school in Lincolnshire summer '64, the students assembled and went round the class to introduce themselves.
One ex-nav trainee said; "because of my injured knee, I lost my medical 'cat' and now I'm in a ground branch". From the back of the room a quiet voice piped up: "why not tell 'um how you were caught cheating on your star shots".
Said officer did quite well but in civvy street years later he was fired in a blaze of publicity 'cause - you guessed it - he was caught cheating.
One ex-nav trainee said; "because of my injured knee, I lost my medical 'cat' and now I'm in a ground branch". From the back of the room a quiet voice piped up: "why not tell 'um how you were caught cheating on your star shots".
Said officer did quite well but in civvy street years later he was fired in a blaze of publicity 'cause - you guessed it - he was caught cheating.
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Chop Rate Fluctuations....
Teeteringhead.
On a serious note to the thread you started there must be cyclical changes to how the pass rate is determined, not just at BFT and AFT but at later stages such as TWU and OCU. (Sorry, I don't know the current names, but when I went through my flying trg Brawdy and Chiv were still going strong and there were none of these reserve squadron name plates either....)
I was never a QFI or wheel in the flying training business and only saw the system from the viewpoint on being a "stude" but in the pre-Falkland Isands era when John Nott was threatening to wield the axe there was serious concern in the multi world (I went through METS at Fy in 1981 when this was a strong topic) that virtually all Canberras, Vulcans, Shacks, Andovers and even METS itself might all be for the chop which would lead to a glut of multi-engined pilots looking for a job. The QFI's themselves at METS and 242 OCU were all pretty anxious about their future posting and career prospects, let alone their studes!
The System must, albeit with extreme lag, have a way of communicating to the FTS world whether the tap is to be opened or closed. Get into the system at the "wrong" point of the cycle and your chances of passing IOT, BFT, AFT or whatever could be seriously reduced. It would be interesting to hear from those with a QFI background, how this worked in practice......
The "multi-engine bar" I am sure was raised during this time with a higher chop rate than before......Then along came the Falklands War and suddenly it was all change.....but by then it was too late for the "choppees" who ended up in other jobs or back in civvy street.
Certainly, there were lots of "holding postings" between courses then and probably there still are, and this was a way of managing the peaks and troughs but I suspect that the cuts that are coming will leave no option but for those running the system to chop trainees who would otherwise have passed a course. Hard for all.....especially for those still with stars in their eyes about all things Air Force and at the start of what for most is a life's ambition.
MB
On a serious note to the thread you started there must be cyclical changes to how the pass rate is determined, not just at BFT and AFT but at later stages such as TWU and OCU. (Sorry, I don't know the current names, but when I went through my flying trg Brawdy and Chiv were still going strong and there were none of these reserve squadron name plates either....)
I was never a QFI or wheel in the flying training business and only saw the system from the viewpoint on being a "stude" but in the pre-Falkland Isands era when John Nott was threatening to wield the axe there was serious concern in the multi world (I went through METS at Fy in 1981 when this was a strong topic) that virtually all Canberras, Vulcans, Shacks, Andovers and even METS itself might all be for the chop which would lead to a glut of multi-engined pilots looking for a job. The QFI's themselves at METS and 242 OCU were all pretty anxious about their future posting and career prospects, let alone their studes!
The System must, albeit with extreme lag, have a way of communicating to the FTS world whether the tap is to be opened or closed. Get into the system at the "wrong" point of the cycle and your chances of passing IOT, BFT, AFT or whatever could be seriously reduced. It would be interesting to hear from those with a QFI background, how this worked in practice......
The "multi-engine bar" I am sure was raised during this time with a higher chop rate than before......Then along came the Falklands War and suddenly it was all change.....but by then it was too late for the "choppees" who ended up in other jobs or back in civvy street.
Certainly, there were lots of "holding postings" between courses then and probably there still are, and this was a way of managing the peaks and troughs but I suspect that the cuts that are coming will leave no option but for those running the system to chop trainees who would otherwise have passed a course. Hard for all.....especially for those still with stars in their eyes about all things Air Force and at the start of what for most is a life's ambition.
MB
I got chopped! I was rubbish!. I invented the 'no capacity rejoin' and thought it really nice that both my QFI and Flt Cdr were as I was shutting there to make sure I'd had a nice ride!
QFI: "Melchett, are you trying to kill us?"
Melchett: "No, why?"
QFI: "In that case, would mind awfully aiming for the threshold rather than the fence 50 yds in front of it"
During the debrief ..... look I know your heart is set on flying jets, but frankly it wouldn't be fair to send you that route. Before the end of week one, you'd be in a smoking hole in the ground. And whilst I'm not bothered about you, it wouldn't be fair to waste a perfectly good aircraft like that.
Ahhh the good old days
Melchett: "No, why?"
QFI: "In that case, would mind awfully aiming for the threshold rather than the fence 50 yds in front of it"
During the debrief ..... look I know your heart is set on flying jets, but frankly it wouldn't be fair to send you that route. Before the end of week one, you'd be in a smoking hole in the ground. And whilst I'm not bothered about you, it wouldn't be fair to waste a perfectly good aircraft like that.
Ahhh the good old days
Al R
I guess everyone has a limit to their capacity/ability - it's only a matter of when (if) it's discovered. Found a niche in C130 and QFIing and subsequently as a757/767 skipper.
Being chopped hurt at the time, but was probably a good thing for me and the FJ navs. I still cherish my whole 211 hours on type!
I guess everyone has a limit to their capacity/ability - it's only a matter of when (if) it's discovered. Found a niche in C130 and QFIing and subsequently as a757/767 skipper.
Being chopped hurt at the time, but was probably a good thing for me and the FJ navs. I still cherish my whole 211 hours on type!
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.. it's only a matter of when (if) it's discovered.
Glad you found your niche and 211 hours can't be bad..
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The odd ball slips through the net. Many moons ago, there was a keen young Officer Cadet who was chopped from OTU for lack of 'OQs.'
He then joined the Army on a National Service Commission (I told you it was many moons ago!) and served for three years as an Officer, although not quite in The Household Brigade.
So, having mastered the art of massaging Senior Officers' egos, he re-applied to the RAF and breezed through OTU. At his JP school, he became great mates with Harry Staish, and, with a lot of help from very patient QFIs, just passed the course.
At Multi training, he had one of the greatest QFIs on the base, and, with a great deal of help, he passed.
He then went to OCU. Despite having to stay behind the rest of his course to re-take his Instrument Rating, he passed and was posted to an operational Squadron. The Squadron QFI was horrified at Our Lad's performance, and tried to get him scrubbed. Higher authority would not allow it. That Squadron was disbanded, so he went to another Squadron, where, after assessment, he was only allowed to fly with the Squadron QFI. During that tour he was a house guest of an Air Officer, when he let it slip that his wife was living with a Sergeant, and although he had reported it, nothing had been done. Three Senior Officers at Our Lad's base had red faces over that. It pays to cultivate Top Cover!
His next posting was to an aircrew training school as a Staff Pilot. There followed many complaints from the other (non-pilot) instructors. That was when Wingco Flying got smart. Having reviewed Our Lad's progress, he recommended him for QFI training! Now you might think that he was passing the buck. Well, you would be right. He passed the buck to the only people who had the authority to sort it out. Our Lad lasted but a few weeks at Little Rissington, before being sent to a Ground Tour with his docs endorsed that he was never to be given another flying appointment.
Our Lad was, however, allowed to keep his wings; after all, he had completed an operational tour.
He then joined the Army on a National Service Commission (I told you it was many moons ago!) and served for three years as an Officer, although not quite in The Household Brigade.
So, having mastered the art of massaging Senior Officers' egos, he re-applied to the RAF and breezed through OTU. At his JP school, he became great mates with Harry Staish, and, with a lot of help from very patient QFIs, just passed the course.
At Multi training, he had one of the greatest QFIs on the base, and, with a great deal of help, he passed.
He then went to OCU. Despite having to stay behind the rest of his course to re-take his Instrument Rating, he passed and was posted to an operational Squadron. The Squadron QFI was horrified at Our Lad's performance, and tried to get him scrubbed. Higher authority would not allow it. That Squadron was disbanded, so he went to another Squadron, where, after assessment, he was only allowed to fly with the Squadron QFI. During that tour he was a house guest of an Air Officer, when he let it slip that his wife was living with a Sergeant, and although he had reported it, nothing had been done. Three Senior Officers at Our Lad's base had red faces over that. It pays to cultivate Top Cover!
His next posting was to an aircrew training school as a Staff Pilot. There followed many complaints from the other (non-pilot) instructors. That was when Wingco Flying got smart. Having reviewed Our Lad's progress, he recommended him for QFI training! Now you might think that he was passing the buck. Well, you would be right. He passed the buck to the only people who had the authority to sort it out. Our Lad lasted but a few weeks at Little Rissington, before being sent to a Ground Tour with his docs endorsed that he was never to be given another flying appointment.
Our Lad was, however, allowed to keep his wings; after all, he had completed an operational tour.
Last edited by Neptunus Rex; 13th Sep 2010 at 13:10. Reason: Precis
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Very harsh banter I think. I did try hard to hide the rotary pilot, I reckon I just managed it!! What you didn't know was that my brain was telling me to eat pies and they would let me go to multis. Unfortunately you needed some basic skills to fly those as well. Now you know where Shergar went..... Yum Yum!!
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I can tell a similar tale about someone who apparently "slipped through the net" but with a tragic ending in a very public accident.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
I admit that by the time I reached the Shack that urge was fading although by then I became a directional consultant for fast-jets that had lost their way.
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but I really did want to navigate and navigate as many diferent types as I could.
On completion of the course the CFI enquired as to whether I had also passed the Nav aptitude at Biggin. I answered in the affirmative & he politely advised me that might be my better career path.
I can honestly admit that I have never regretted that advice for a single moment. I had a great time in Maritime & subsequently in both of my careers in civil aviation.
The alternative would have probably been to end up either chopped or as a truckie co pilot. Ugh.
When asked about where I did my training I say that I completed the Jestream lead-in phase at TWU! I was very lucky to be allowed to move on to the JS because as mentioned above they were not taking many at that time.
MM
MM
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The alternative would have probably been to end up either chopped or as a truckie co pilot. Ugh.
"........and decided to give fighter control a try"
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I had an ex-truckie copilot on Nimrods. He could make a Flight Imprest sing
He's now a very successful business consultant.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
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I was never chopped from anything - I was so good that I finished Tac-Wpns early, was destined for the Harrier and did the hovering course. However I think my paperwork must have been mixed up - because the hovering course lasted 12 years and included 4 different helicopter types!!
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Back in the day when every young man wanted to be a single seat fighter pilot (and those who expressed doubts were sent to see the Command shrink at Brampton) there was a chap on the course ahead of me who was adamant he wanted to fly VC10s. Everyone else (including Staniforth, the CFI) thought he was nuts but 'trucking' was his thing.
Paul went on to fly the Ten before moving across to the Canberra where he unfortunately met his fate.
PS. Never chopped, merely 'streamed'
Paul went on to fly the Ten before moving across to the Canberra where he unfortunately met his fate.
PS. Never chopped, merely 'streamed'