Airtanker reservist pilots

[Roland Pulfrew]

Scruffy

Also I ask you have you landed a 380 ton jet in a 35 kt crosswind on a snowy runway off a vor approach

Have you?

Congratulations on that A380 qualification. That really must be like flying a block of flats!!

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Scruffy,

What you allude to in post 67 is precisely why the RAF invested heavily in CRM training a few years back

[Scruffy Fanny]

Reply

As it happens I have- mtow t/o about 370 tons landed about 255tons 35 kts on a wet runway with a minima cloud base- I'm not blowing my own trumpet it was a dash of skill with a bit of luck that resulted in a smooth landing. My point again is don't slag off one group of aviators just because you perceive what you did was the worlds greatest aviation feat- I was a military pilot and did some pretty crazy flying but I've done some equally scary stuff in civil flying with some very gifted aviators. Just because you wrote the 1 group AAR tanker SOPs doesn't make you the voice of pilotage!

[Rigga]

From what I understand of the manning of ATrs the mil/civ split would enable the experienced mil staff to train the civ staff to the right standards under a sort of in-house TRTO arrangement. In return the civ staff will teach the mil staff how to fly large airliner types properly.

This interchange of training could also enable some of the lesser qualified mil staff to volunteer for ATrs and get qualified for a future career - in the same way that all the inexperienced military maintenance and engineering staff will be/are being given specific (and Bonded) training and qualifications to enable their work on this fleet - but they will be overseen by better qualified and more experienced civil maintenance and engineering staff and will work to civ rules at all times- even when it means restricting or denying flights due to MEL limits.

All of the technical and business management will be airline and commercially experienced personnel. No military. Military staff will be involved in the operational management system, but under EU-OPS management rules except for those (if any) aircraft with military registration.

As for the reputation of Ryanair? They have the best flying rate I've ever seen for 737 - I remember the Buzz "fleet" of 6 aircraft all doing 11 sectors per day and it didn't take long for O'Leary's mob to buy the maintenance programme and catch up.

As far as I know none of the Ryanair Fleet has ever done a 'D' Check - O'Leary gets rid of them by then as it costs too much.

...and I've never met any crew, civ or mil, that were totally happy with their lot.

[Blighter Pilot]

Good rumour doing the rounds that even military pilots will require an ATPL with valid type rating as the aircraft are on the civilian register and will not actually be military assets as they are owned by Air Tanker PLC

[Trim Stab]

Good rumour doing the rounds that even military pilots will require an ATPL with valid type rating as the aircraft are on the civilian register and will not actually be military assets as they are owned by Air Tanker PLC

Not a rumour - it is a fact.

[Blighter Pilot]

That'll be good for retention then - where do I sign up

[3engnever]

SF, sorry, can I confirm that you landed at 255T not 380T, wet not snowy and on minima?

Guys, I find this thread ridiculous.

How do you guys get away on holiday. Most of you seem very good at blowing sunshine up your own backsides whilst offering no respect for any other pilot.

If you feel the quality of every other pilot/airline is so poor how on earth do you put your delicate pink bodies (and probably those of your families) in the metal tube of another to get away.

Back to the point:
I really hope that we can learn a hell of a lot from each other during this PFI. I honestly believe the new Sqn, once up and running properly, will be an awesome place to be where we can gain the benefits and experiences from both the military and civil sector. Don't forget, there will be a vast amount of experience from both sides, from non AAR, 2 man Flt deck types to AAR 4 man flt deck experts?

If we go into this new sqn with the viewpoints expressed by many here, then we may as well give up now. Too many ego's thinking theirs is the only way to do business. The beauty of a new jet is the ability to reshape the old and redefine the art of the possible.

Those of you who have belittled others on this thread, I hope not to meet you on the new 10 Sqn, your views are probably not required; however, new ways of thinking probably are.

[Pontius Navigator]

QFE/QNH

Now what will they use?

Will the civ pf use QNH with the mil pnf using QFE?

[Kreuger flap]

Oh watch out the Navigators are trying to get in on the act. Let it go pontius, it's a modern aircraft and has computers and stuff to do your job. The flight deck doesn't need to be cluttered up with flight engineers and navigators any more, nor does it need the likes of BEagle on it either.

[Torque Tonight]

Ryanair pushes the limit of every law they think they can get away with - with an attitude like that how much do you want to bet maintenance is cost/benefitted out as thinly as possible.

Wny do they buy new jets - less things to break and therefore less cost to maintain (for now)

my point was that if they buy new and shiny so they can cut back the spanner monkeys then there are less spanner monkeys available to do any task. Add in some pressure and demands from some accountant shiny arse and people will start trimming the odd corner. one thing leads to another.

Cornish, me old, have a word with yourself. New jets: you say that like it's a bad thing. By that logic, to improve flight safety, you should operate some clapped-out, 50 year old, maintenance liability, hangar-queen that's been to the moon and back 1000 times. (Sounds familiar, Ascot?)

Let me tell you that Ryanair's serviceability and maintenance standards put the RAF to shame - and I've experienced both at first hand. Acceptable Deferred Defects basically do not exist. The few minor snags that do occur get rectified that night.

Anyway, for the love of God, can this not turn into another Ryanair bashing thread. Back on topic, please!

[Roland Pulfrew]

3engnever

SF, sorry, can I confirm that you landed at 255T not 380T, wet not snowy and on minima?

You got it, I was obviously too subtle for SF

And now back on topic:

Why will military pilots require an ATPL? The jets when flown on military tasks will be on the military register. Abo pilots coming through training will not have enough hours for a CPL let alone an ATPL. Or is the future 101 Sqn going to be a retirement home for experienced pilots leaving the RAF and needing an A330 type rating?!?

[Seldomfitforpurpose]

Successfully and smoothly landing an aircraft full of fare paying punters at 255t on a wet snowy runway in a 35kt crosswind is an impressive feat so not quite sure why their is a need for the bitchiness

Getting a 380t aircraft full of fare paying punters airborne in the first place is not that shabby an achievement either

[BEagle]

Admittedly the runway was bare/dry and the aircraft was being flown by a test pilot, but this clip of an A380 being tested with 40-50 kt cross-winds at BIKF is pretty impressive:

YouTube - Airbus A380 crosswind landing

I'm told that, of all the FBW Airbus aircraft, the easiest to fly are the A380...and the A400M.

[cornish-stormrider]

TT, don't be daft. If you'd care to read my last with your brain engaged the point I was trying to make was that because Mr Mikey has bought new jets he has downscaled the maintenance costs - what happens when he needs the resource that isnt there? you know, the spanner wielding ones

Of course a new jet TENDS to be a safer jet than some knackered old heap but when you fly the arse off it and only do the minimum maintenance required it stays safe for how long??

Flight Safety does not belong in the hands of the finance dept. Let me put it this way - I don't care whether the jet is new or old, I care that it is safe. I don't care whether the pilot is mil or civ - I care the pilot is correctly trained, briefed, authed and in good health with the right amount of sleep.

I care if the pilot hates his oppo (or her) or has a huge ego that makes CRM impossible, I care if the pilot will fess up rather than hide it and is man enough to ask for help.


I also judge who I trust my life to on some other factors - thats why Ryanair, sleezy and a few others (and there are big boys there too) including Virgin (until the pilots resolve their arguments with Dickie!)

And I won't be flying BA again either.

In summary - I'm not just out to get Mikey, I have concerns about a lot of things - now does anyone have a yacht for sale?

[Tourist]

Trim Stab.
You say it is a fact that ATPL will be required because the aircraft will be civvy register and civvy owned.
There are plenty of aircraft around at the moment in that bracket that are flown without civvy license by British military

[airborne_artist]

There are plenty of aircraft around at the moment in that bracket that are flown without civvy license by British military

Is that under an exemption that has not been applied to the big stuff?

[Torque Tonight]

Cornish, I don't know whether that all came to you in a dream or what, but your opinion of Ryanair maintenance is without foundation. As I said RYR engineering compares very favourably with the RAF. The RAF gingers are a fantastic, hard-working, skilled bunch, but are working with pitiful budgets, a supply chain that doesn't, well 'run-in' or sometimes obselescent kit etc. The SH cab that I used to operate was generally held together with speed tape, stop-drilled cracks and INOP stickers. I used to have to get the red FRCs out on a good proportion of sorties and sometimes the aircraft were missing parts like cabin windows, because there weren't enough to go round the fleet.

Compare that with the yellow and blue, where no expense is spared when it comes to safety and engineering. Snags get rectified immediately and the aircraft are extremely reliable. MOL is no fool.

If you and Beags wish to put the boot in, then feel free to unload on: the customer service, the hard sell, the jingle, the cabin layout, distance from some airports to their cities. Crack on, you have some fair points. If you try to suggest that the aircraft, safety, pilots or training are inferior then those who know will shoot you down. Don't be daft mate.

[BEagle]

From the ANO*:

Flight crew licence requirement – Exception for members of HM Forces

58. A person may act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft registered in the United Kingdom without being the holder of an appropriate licence if, in so doing, the person is acting in the course of his or her duty as a member of any of Her Majesty’s naval, military or air forces.

TT, I've no doubt that the piloting and engineering at Ryanair are quite fine. But working for a company whose actual product is of such a nature must surely throw some doubt on the motives of those prepared to work for it?

Regarding maintenance, with new aircraft Ryanair has the huge advantage of being on the plateau of the maintainability bucket curve - whereas most RAF ME aircraft are now crawling up the right hand side....

the customer service, the hard sell, the jingle, the cabin layout, distance from some airports to their cities.

Somewhat Pythonesque?

"All right... all right... but apart from the customer service and hard sell and jingle and cabin layout and distance from some airports to their cities... what have the Romans ever done for us?"


*(Anyone who hates 'Defence Writing', should try reading the ANO - you'll soon change your tune!).

[Saintsman]

I believe that the aircraft will have both civil and military registrations and will be operated under Military Registered Civil Owned regs whilst being used by the RAF. Should they ever be leased to take punters to their sunny destinations, then they will be operated under EASA.