OASC 'CANDIDATES' and WANNABES, PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST!
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RAF officer's
By the way i have researched the career on the internet, Is theyre a 50/50 chance of getting accepted if you dont goto uni rather than goto uni
Cheers, Alex
Cheers, Alex
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Alex, there is definitely a good 50-50 chance.
Direct entry after school means that you will still be developing the necessary aptitude levels necessary for a pilot. By the time you leave university your aptitude levels will have reached a maximum. The RAF would rather have you earlier when it can mould you better.
University entrants on the other hand are usually more mature and in comparision would appear to be more suitable as officer candidates. In addition a university degree would be useful in the event that you did not make it into the RAF.
However direct entry at 18 does not mean you could not go to university later either in the RAF or out.
If you have the necessary two A-levels and the 5 A-C GCSE including English and Maths then you meet the minimum criteria and have your whole life ahead of you. Just think, 3 years from now and you could be entering the RAF.
Direct entry after school means that you will still be developing the necessary aptitude levels necessary for a pilot. By the time you leave university your aptitude levels will have reached a maximum. The RAF would rather have you earlier when it can mould you better.
University entrants on the other hand are usually more mature and in comparision would appear to be more suitable as officer candidates. In addition a university degree would be useful in the event that you did not make it into the RAF.
However direct entry at 18 does not mean you could not go to university later either in the RAF or out.
If you have the necessary two A-levels and the 5 A-C GCSE including English and Maths then you meet the minimum criteria and have your whole life ahead of you. Just think, 3 years from now and you could be entering the RAF.
Red On, Green On
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AlexW - the Navy, as you would expect, is one up on the RAF for its 18 y/o entry officers.
All non-graduate (and under 21 y/o) warfare officers who enter post-A-levels are awarded an ordinary degree after three years of officer and professional training. The RN then gives each officer a voucher with the Open University to complete the Honours element, so at about five years in you could have a BSc/BA (Hons) and be five years into your career. That's a saving of three or four years, with no student debt to repay.
Info here
All non-graduate (and under 21 y/o) warfare officers who enter post-A-levels are awarded an ordinary degree after three years of officer and professional training. The RN then gives each officer a voucher with the Open University to complete the Honours element, so at about five years in you could have a BSc/BA (Hons) and be five years into your career. That's a saving of three or four years, with no student debt to repay.
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In-Service Degrees
A degree of what value though? I don't mean that in the elitist sense of 'a degree from XXX institution is worthless', but more in terms of why you should need a degree and in what subject?
A large part of the reason for taking a degree before entry, especially for aircrew or aptitude/medical critical branches, is the potential for the early chop and dispatch back into civvy street. Holding a degree already will give you immediate career options, rather than a three year delay as a mature student. The RN degree does not solve this.
Also, it does not seem that the strong vocational degrees are very well catered for under this scheme ie law, science/lab based, medicine etc. Chances are that the only degree you can fit into this format around full time, high tempo military employment is something in the business/leadership/management line.
How many business/leadership/management type employers disregard military experience and demand a degree from Service leavers with a Officer CV of more than 5+ years behind them? Very few from what I can see of the job market. So what value your degree over a whole-hearted focus on a military career?
Also, an ordinary degree for doing your job is a pretty meaningless award unless you hope to be employed by someone who has no inkling and cannot be told what a military officer does in the course of his training. And who gives unswerving credence to any sort of serstificut!
I would suggest (pre-emptively, as it hasn't really been tried and tested yet) that this scheme is likely to give you a rather ambiguous degree that in all likelihood will not leave you better off that just focussing on your Service career and experiences. If you want an undergrad degree then do a traditional, subject focussed one as a back up in case you are chopped, or to support your Service career aspirations. MBAs are two a penny later on in life if you want to get that management seal of approval when you quit at your first option point!!
Sorry, thesis writing - feeling argumentative
A large part of the reason for taking a degree before entry, especially for aircrew or aptitude/medical critical branches, is the potential for the early chop and dispatch back into civvy street. Holding a degree already will give you immediate career options, rather than a three year delay as a mature student. The RN degree does not solve this.
Also, it does not seem that the strong vocational degrees are very well catered for under this scheme ie law, science/lab based, medicine etc. Chances are that the only degree you can fit into this format around full time, high tempo military employment is something in the business/leadership/management line.
How many business/leadership/management type employers disregard military experience and demand a degree from Service leavers with a Officer CV of more than 5+ years behind them? Very few from what I can see of the job market. So what value your degree over a whole-hearted focus on a military career?
Also, an ordinary degree for doing your job is a pretty meaningless award unless you hope to be employed by someone who has no inkling and cannot be told what a military officer does in the course of his training. And who gives unswerving credence to any sort of serstificut!
I would suggest (pre-emptively, as it hasn't really been tried and tested yet) that this scheme is likely to give you a rather ambiguous degree that in all likelihood will not leave you better off that just focussing on your Service career and experiences. If you want an undergrad degree then do a traditional, subject focussed one as a back up in case you are chopped, or to support your Service career aspirations. MBAs are two a penny later on in life if you want to get that management seal of approval when you quit at your first option point!!
Sorry, thesis writing - feeling argumentative
Perhaps I could offer a couple of points with regard to university degrees.
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1. In my day (I joined the RAF with BEagle!) the best way to join was under the university cadetship scheme. This replaced the Cranwell Cadet (2-n-half years) as the top flight method of entry for aircrew. By being a grad, you identified yourself academically as one of the top 7% of the country, which the RAF deemed to be important in an ever increasing complex technical world of aviation. That said, your degree could be in anything - "Medieval French History, "Ceramics", "Forestry" to name but a few on my course, I did "Biological Sciences". A university cadetship remains the best method to this day, however now, by having a degree you will have identified yourself academically as one of the top 50%(?) of the population (if Tony Blair's initiative continues). So, unless you get an upper 2nd or better from one of the premier league universities and in a proper subject, your competitiveness will be limited were you subsequently to stumble during flying/officer training at any stage.
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2. 3 or 4 year degree courses, plus perhaps a gap year, together with all the holds between courses, restreams, etc have resulted in the average age of pilots arriving on their first squadron being 28 years! The RAF has recognised that their high flyers need to be well into management posts by this age if they are going to reach Air rank early enough to make a difference. Hence the more recent push to encourage entry from school, with enticements (misguided if you ask me) like in-service degrees.
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So, in my view, unless you are academically gifted and could expect to achieve a quality degree from a quality university, then this route to any career is a waste of years. Better to join after school and aim to be FL by say 22. This would enable you to wrack up the flying hours, and associated management skills to make an informed decision at 38 (go, and have a decent 2nd career in civvy street, or stay and aim for Air rank).
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Finally a tip to give yourself an edge by the time you go for selection. The Duke of Edinburgh scheme is well regarded. Join it if you haven't already, and work towards achieving DofE Gold, it's as good as another A level, and speaks volumes about committment, teamwork, ethos, character etc.
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All IMHO
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1. In my day (I joined the RAF with BEagle!) the best way to join was under the university cadetship scheme. This replaced the Cranwell Cadet (2-n-half years) as the top flight method of entry for aircrew. By being a grad, you identified yourself academically as one of the top 7% of the country, which the RAF deemed to be important in an ever increasing complex technical world of aviation. That said, your degree could be in anything - "Medieval French History, "Ceramics", "Forestry" to name but a few on my course, I did "Biological Sciences". A university cadetship remains the best method to this day, however now, by having a degree you will have identified yourself academically as one of the top 50%(?) of the population (if Tony Blair's initiative continues). So, unless you get an upper 2nd or better from one of the premier league universities and in a proper subject, your competitiveness will be limited were you subsequently to stumble during flying/officer training at any stage.
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2. 3 or 4 year degree courses, plus perhaps a gap year, together with all the holds between courses, restreams, etc have resulted in the average age of pilots arriving on their first squadron being 28 years! The RAF has recognised that their high flyers need to be well into management posts by this age if they are going to reach Air rank early enough to make a difference. Hence the more recent push to encourage entry from school, with enticements (misguided if you ask me) like in-service degrees.
.
So, in my view, unless you are academically gifted and could expect to achieve a quality degree from a quality university, then this route to any career is a waste of years. Better to join after school and aim to be FL by say 22. This would enable you to wrack up the flying hours, and associated management skills to make an informed decision at 38 (go, and have a decent 2nd career in civvy street, or stay and aim for Air rank).
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Finally a tip to give yourself an edge by the time you go for selection. The Duke of Edinburgh scheme is well regarded. Join it if you haven't already, and work towards achieving DofE Gold, it's as good as another A level, and speaks volumes about committment, teamwork, ethos, character etc.
.
All IMHO
Red On, Green On
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3PD - I agree with much of what you say - but an enlightened employer might have a very healthy respect for the applicant who had completed the Honours element of an in service degree whilst playing their part in the operational tempo that is the current norm.
A 30 year old is presenting much more than just a degree qualification, so I'd argue that all else equal, the Hons degree is a useful addition. The ordinary is as you say, just a piece of paper and nor more.
BRNC has been offering this since 2003, so it will be a couple of years before anyone graduates with an Hons degree, and a few more years before they go into a civilian environment. Bear in mind that an Hons degree could then be used to study for an MSc, before or after leaving, which should be valuable. A non-graduate can't access that level of learning.
A 30 year old is presenting much more than just a degree qualification, so I'd argue that all else equal, the Hons degree is a useful addition. The ordinary is as you say, just a piece of paper and nor more.
BRNC has been offering this since 2003, so it will be a couple of years before anyone graduates with an Hons degree, and a few more years before they go into a civilian environment. Bear in mind that an Hons degree could then be used to study for an MSc, before or after leaving, which should be valuable. A non-graduate can't access that level of learning.
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Thanks for the advice , Started my D of E bronze should hope to complete that by january next year, Im not too sure on Getting a degree as i want to be flying in the shortest time possible,(Thinking about starting PPL at 16).
Cheers
Alex Walker
Cheers
Alex Walker
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To be a pilot in the RAF you need 5 GCSE/Standard Grades and 3 A levels/Highers. Anyone with this level of education is good enough to be a pilot so its more down to the individual himself whether he/she gets selected not down to if he/she has a degree. So you can't really put a percentage on it.
Red On, Green On
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AlexW - while it will be great fun, there's no direct benefit to getting a PPL in terms of getting into the RAF or the RN as a pilot. The system is designed for and prefers students with little or no powered flying experience.
Join the Air Cadets and go gliding for free!
Join the Air Cadets and go gliding for free!
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Yea, I go flying as much as i can, I have done pretty well to say (Not comparing to you guyys 
) 9 hours of flying including landing taken off flying, Aerobatics etc. i think it would be good to get my ppl Because if it all goes wrong i can do another job in the pilot/aviation industry , in the end i dont care what i fly, aslong as i fly im looking at CTC wings if the RAF doesnt goto plan.
) 9 hours of flying including landing taken off flying, Aerobatics etc. i think it would be good to get my ppl Because if it all goes wrong i can do another job in the pilot/aviation industry , in the end i dont care what i fly, aslong as i fly im looking at CTC wings if the RAF doesnt goto plan.
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Higher Level Degrees
"Bear in mind that an Hons degree could then be used to study for an MSc, before or after leaving, which should be valuable. A non-graduate can't access that level of learning."
The Higher Level Defence Studies scheme offers the opportunity to be fully sponsored for Masters degree at any university in the UK, although most places are taken up at Cambridge. Whilst the requirements for a Cambridge Masters degree are usually a high 2.1 or 1st, they understand the qualities held by military personnel and are quite happy to accept personnel with no first degree (at least one recent Army Officer) or ancient 2.2s in irrelevant subjects (ie me!).
Non graduates with a decent military background can access Masters level education, because most universities would rather take the risk of failure to complete (thereby impacting the Uni's performance stats and funding) on a military mind than a student one!
The Higher Level Defence Studies scheme offers the opportunity to be fully sponsored for Masters degree at any university in the UK, although most places are taken up at Cambridge. Whilst the requirements for a Cambridge Masters degree are usually a high 2.1 or 1st, they understand the qualities held by military personnel and are quite happy to accept personnel with no first degree (at least one recent Army Officer) or ancient 2.2s in irrelevant subjects (ie me!).
Non graduates with a decent military background can access Masters level education, because most universities would rather take the risk of failure to complete (thereby impacting the Uni's performance stats and funding) on a military mind than a student one!
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PN - thats exactly what i did. When my failure notification came through, i was on the phone to UCAS and my universities! Applied after uni (well, a year and a half after) and am going to start in 3 months 
A fellow student at university, on hearing he had got 55% for an assignment asked the tutor what the pass mark was and was told 40%.
Oh, ****** he said, I have worked too hard.
The RAF is not looking for people who achieve the minimum. They are looking for excellence. Thousands apply, dozens are accepted.
The minimums are set for each point but you are not expected to achieve only the minimum - a minimum of 5 GCSE but more and higher grades is better. A minimum of 2 A-levels but more and higher grades is better.
A degree is good but a 2.1 is better.
13 pressups may be a pass but I achieved 4 times that number at twice that age.
To stand out from the crowd you need to excel, may be not at everything -which is why there are minimums - but at least at most things.
Oh, ****** he said, I have worked too hard.
The RAF is not looking for people who achieve the minimum. They are looking for excellence. Thousands apply, dozens are accepted.
The minimums are set for each point but you are not expected to achieve only the minimum - a minimum of 5 GCSE but more and higher grades is better. A minimum of 2 A-levels but more and higher grades is better.
A degree is good but a 2.1 is better.
13 pressups may be a pass but I achieved 4 times that number at twice that age.
To stand out from the crowd you need to excel, may be not at everything -which is why there are minimums - but at least at most things.
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Your post reminds me of a fortnightly progress report I once received from my Beefer's Course Flt Cdr some years ago. It went something like this:
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Well 6Z3, no real problems at the moment. A word of advice about your briefings. Remember, the technique will have been covered in the Mass brief, but then you tend to over-emphasise it again in the MATE brief, and then again just before demonstrating the manoeuvre in the air you describe what you are about to do, and then after you have performed it you describe in detail what you had just done, then after your 'student' tries it you give a long debrief about how he had done; then on the ground you cover the technique again before debriefing his efforts......
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"You mean I'm verbose?"
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.. Yer that's it!
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To those who know OASC/recruitment,
I sat the OASC board last year and achieved an overall score of 3+ with mediocre aptitude results (good pass for my branch choices but not competitive). I was then told that there were no spaces available, and they did not feel it prudent to 'hold' me over more than two boards to see if anything became available. (I had aptitude and non aptitude base branches down) I was told to return in one year if I wished.
So I am currently at that stage, with my date fast approaching. However, I am looking at postponing it due to the fact that I don't feel that I could currently better my score from last year. I have addressed what needed to be addressed as put on my final debrief, but I still feel as though I could do more. I don't want to settle for a 3 this year, as last year it wasn't good enough.
If I do postpone it will a note be held on my records, and if so how will the selection board view this? This is my final chance at the aptitude tests and I don't want to waste it on rushing in too soon.
Opinions?
I sat the OASC board last year and achieved an overall score of 3+ with mediocre aptitude results (good pass for my branch choices but not competitive). I was then told that there were no spaces available, and they did not feel it prudent to 'hold' me over more than two boards to see if anything became available. (I had aptitude and non aptitude base branches down) I was told to return in one year if I wished.
So I am currently at that stage, with my date fast approaching. However, I am looking at postponing it due to the fact that I don't feel that I could currently better my score from last year. I have addressed what needed to be addressed as put on my final debrief, but I still feel as though I could do more. I don't want to settle for a 3 this year, as last year it wasn't good enough.
If I do postpone it will a note be held on my records, and if so how will the selection board view this? This is my final chance at the aptitude tests and I don't want to waste it on rushing in too soon.
Opinions?
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If you presented 6 , 12 or more months after the earliest date they suggested then all I would expect is that it would be a topic for interview.
"Tell us what you did in the last 2 years?"
"What have you learnt from your previous visit?" etc
Present when ready but do present because you would be surprised how many people were given your advice and never return. Our loss and theirs.
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Wader2, thanks for taking the time to reply. I don't intend to go under prepared but rather I'm interested in knowing if postponing my date (which is next month) might raise questions. I do feel as though I could pass well, but not to the standard that the RAF are looking for in aircrew applicants.
Also, I've heard a rumour that OASCs format is to be changed in September. I've heard that there will be two parts in the following format;
1. Part 1 at Cranwell, consisting of interview, aptitude and leadership tests, after which you go home.
2. If you pass your Part 1, you'll be invited back for Part 2, which will include the medical and fitness tests during your IOT fam visit.
Can anyone confirm or deny this?
Also, I've heard a rumour that OASCs format is to be changed in September. I've heard that there will be two parts in the following format;
1. Part 1 at Cranwell, consisting of interview, aptitude and leadership tests, after which you go home.
2. If you pass your Part 1, you'll be invited back for Part 2, which will include the medical and fitness tests during your IOT fam visit.
Can anyone confirm or deny this?
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Spindlethis. What did your debrief specifically tell you where you needed to improve? The other thing to consider is if your age is against you then postponing might put extra pressure on you. What Branches have you applied for?
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Hi AIDU,
My debrief was quite positive and I was told that I could do some adventurous training to ensure that I was more capable in the hangar and that I shouldn't worry too much about the interview. I'm currently applying for WSO, and I have a few years before I hit the age limit. (I believe I'm too old for pilot now, sadly.)
As far as the rest of my last board went, I feel that overall I could do a lot better.
My debrief was quite positive and I was told that I could do some adventurous training to ensure that I was more capable in the hangar and that I shouldn't worry too much about the interview. I'm currently applying for WSO, and I have a few years before I hit the age limit. (I believe I'm too old for pilot now, sadly.)
As far as the rest of my last board went, I feel that overall I could do a lot better.