Nimrod MRA.4
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Blighty
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NCA on Chinook, Puma, Reaper, E3D, Shadow, Sentinel, Sea King, Tristar, VC10, C17, C130J and K - sorry if I missed any.
C1130 out around 2015
Shadow/Sent out post Afghan
SK is going private
Reaper? probably out post Afghan
As for siggies, that leaves 8 and 51sqn... Not many options left!
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Back in Geordie Land
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Leon,
I'm sorry for the delay in responding, but I had some more pressing work to do yesterday pm rarther than read PPrune all day.
OK, so a few of you went to G-d-C (can't spell it correctly and I know how much you dislike incorrect spelling) but lets be honest, it was AFTER the NFZ was established, and you didn't fire a single shot in anger.
The same goes for the FJ contribution during GW1 and 2.
But lets not dwell on that. Theis thread is about the demise of MRA4 and I very much hoope you agree that a decision of such magnetude needs to be fought to the end.
I stand my comments about CAS,ACAS and the AOC. There has not been a single word spouted publicly by any of them, and for that they should be ashamed. It will interesting in a few years time when they come up for retirement......."well of course I was opposed to tne canx of Nimrod blah...." you can just hear it now can't you?
The NCA as you rightly point out is still alive and very much kicking on other platforms, and long may it stay. They provide an outstanding contribution and their value is incalculable (sp??!) The sad fact is that their numbers will now seriously deplete, and that is a severe loss to the service.
RumPunch - Thank you.
The Winco
I'm sorry for the delay in responding, but I had some more pressing work to do yesterday pm rarther than read PPrune all day.
OK, so a few of you went to G-d-C (can't spell it correctly and I know how much you dislike incorrect spelling) but lets be honest, it was AFTER the NFZ was established, and you didn't fire a single shot in anger.
The same goes for the FJ contribution during GW1 and 2.
But lets not dwell on that. Theis thread is about the demise of MRA4 and I very much hoope you agree that a decision of such magnetude needs to be fought to the end.
I stand my comments about CAS,ACAS and the AOC. There has not been a single word spouted publicly by any of them, and for that they should be ashamed. It will interesting in a few years time when they come up for retirement......."well of course I was opposed to tne canx of Nimrod blah...." you can just hear it now can't you?
The NCA as you rightly point out is still alive and very much kicking on other platforms, and long may it stay. They provide an outstanding contribution and their value is incalculable (sp??!) The sad fact is that their numbers will now seriously deplete, and that is a severe loss to the service.
RumPunch - Thank you.
The Winco
Join Date: Jun 2005
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True enough a hole in the career oppotunities for AEOps has been blown but as has been stated already there are a number of us employed on various other types...
Now I think it would be a mistake to make redundant our entire ASW/ASUW experience with the flash of a very small cheque book so heres an idea...Why not choose carefully operators of a suitable age and experience, check for a cold nose, shiny coat and a good set of teeth, then farm them out to our commonwealth partners who are still in the game of MPA'ing? A nucleus of suitable NCA and some commissioned types who could spend a few years away keeping their skills honed so that some time down the way when some money is available and the mistake has been truly realised we could pull them back and have just enough experience to put a fleet back together...
If it never happens at least we had though about it and some of the unfortunate Nimrod mates up at ISK would have been fortunate to perhaps forge a new career elsewhere doing something they enjoy...and the commonwealth nation get some great SME's to learn from.
Now I think it would be a mistake to make redundant our entire ASW/ASUW experience with the flash of a very small cheque book so heres an idea...Why not choose carefully operators of a suitable age and experience, check for a cold nose, shiny coat and a good set of teeth, then farm them out to our commonwealth partners who are still in the game of MPA'ing? A nucleus of suitable NCA and some commissioned types who could spend a few years away keeping their skills honed so that some time down the way when some money is available and the mistake has been truly realised we could pull them back and have just enough experience to put a fleet back together...
If it never happens at least we had though about it and some of the unfortunate Nimrod mates up at ISK would have been fortunate to perhaps forge a new career elsewhere doing something they enjoy...and the commonwealth nation get some great SME's to learn from.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Vim, are you serious? Do you think they would ever come home?
The Kwis used to offer 4-year appointments which was long enough to get set up ther, 20-acres, couple of horses and so on. If you cut the mustard your engagement might be extended, if not you were probably getting well established locally.
The Kwis used to offer 4-year appointments which was long enough to get set up ther, 20-acres, couple of horses and so on. If you cut the mustard your engagement might be extended, if not you were probably getting well established locally.
Join Date: May 2007
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Wokkamate;
Serious question here, not baiting or looking for a fight.
Tell us how we have managed since MR2 was withdrawn?
If the UK is so in need of a long range MPA then why has the sky not fallen in yet?
Serious question here, not baiting or looking for a fight.
Tell us how we have managed since MR2 was withdrawn?
If the UK is so in need of a long range MPA then why has the sky not fallen in yet?
The reason why most of the RN didn't appreciate you was because most of the RN had nothing to do with you.
When you did a join you probably only talked to the PWO, and maybe the TPS for Link, and to all intents and purposes things just happened. Your average chef or stoker would have had no idea what the MPA was doing, or indeed that you were there.
Your operations with 848 and 815 Sqns are unlikely to be talked about, and anything regarding the deterrent only ever results in hyperbole.
Rest assured though, the operational planners and their bosses were hoping that MRA4 could be kept, but at the end of the day it was an RAF submission in the SDSR. Perhaps the only way we could've kept them was to transfer you to the FAA.....
When you did a join you probably only talked to the PWO, and maybe the TPS for Link, and to all intents and purposes things just happened. Your average chef or stoker would have had no idea what the MPA was doing, or indeed that you were there.
Your operations with 848 and 815 Sqns are unlikely to be talked about, and anything regarding the deterrent only ever results in hyperbole.
Rest assured though, the operational planners and their bosses were hoping that MRA4 could be kept, but at the end of the day it was an RAF submission in the SDSR. Perhaps the only way we could've kept them was to transfer you to the FAA.....
Join Date: Apr 2006
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airpolice
Can I answer you please?
We have managed because we have always managed. We have made do with what (little) assets we have and we have got on and done the job. It's as simple as that, and in many respects, we have been somewhat responsible for our own downfall. Our constant 'can do' and 'will do' attitude has bitten us in the behind somewhat.
The sky will only fall in when, as so often has happened, we have a major disaster close (ish) ro our shores: Air India Jumbo, LRSAROps or where there are so many SAR assets in one area that you need a stable platform for comms relays and links etc. etc. Not to mention being able to drop SAR kit during LR incidents. It's all the things that you don't know about that will be most missed by those people and ops that we don't know about!!
Sorry for jumping in Wokkamate, you guys fly safe.
Winco
Can I answer you please?
We have managed because we have always managed. We have made do with what (little) assets we have and we have got on and done the job. It's as simple as that, and in many respects, we have been somewhat responsible for our own downfall. Our constant 'can do' and 'will do' attitude has bitten us in the behind somewhat.
The sky will only fall in when, as so often has happened, we have a major disaster close (ish) ro our shores: Air India Jumbo, LRSAROps or where there are so many SAR assets in one area that you need a stable platform for comms relays and links etc. etc. Not to mention being able to drop SAR kit during LR incidents. It's all the things that you don't know about that will be most missed by those people and ops that we don't know about!!
Sorry for jumping in Wokkamate, you guys fly safe.
Winco
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Nimrod MRA4 petition
There is a petition at : Nimrod MRA4 to be brought into service to have the government reconsider the decision on MRA4.
Tell everyone you know to look at it. Some good comments on there.
ShuftyScope
Tell everyone you know to look at it. Some good comments on there.
ShuftyScope
Join Date: Oct 2005
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On the Beira Station, many moons ago, we only spoke to the comms SNCO, or, occasionally, the Sigs Officer. Mind you, the whole Ship's Company were well aware of LRMP presence, because we dropped them their mail and newspapers every second day.
However, I did get to speak to 'Charlie Oscar' once. That was the day when we dropped the mail container so close that the splash went up the side of his Frigate!
However, I did get to speak to 'Charlie Oscar' once. That was the day when we dropped the mail container so close that the splash went up the side of his Frigate!
Join Date: May 2007
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MRA4 Cancelled, get over it.
Bannock, I think you have mistaken a little knowledge for the full picture.
The MoD are indeed managing, they have shifted their requirements of the RAF and so it all works out fine.
Some people on here have eventually come around to realising that there is a new game to be played. What was done before has gone. The goalposts have been moved to account for the shorter legs and smaller balls that are now in use.
Not only can the UK Armed Forces no longer reach out with such SAR efforts as could have been the case in years gone by, they could not retake the Falklands or invade another country. OK, Maybe at a push they could capture some of Ireland. They could not stop the Germans trying to overrun France, they could not stop the Soviets coming through Germany or even keep the Spaniards at home for long.
There was a time when Great Britain could have done this kind of thing, but not now. Not only are they unable to do it, they are not being asked to do it. So that makes it all ok, certainly as far as the bean counters are concerned.
Someone has to be in charge. Being so will not make them right, but someone has to be in charge. The people in charge have decided that we will, as a country, do only what can be done with the reduced assets now at the disposal of the armed forces.
That's just the way it is.
The loss of the MPA capacity has been balanced, as I see it, by the MoD deciding not to care about the things that can no longer be dealt with by the reduced RAF.
If and when the MoD decide that the RAF (or the FAA) need to patrol above the seas a long way from land, or do any of the Secret Squirrel tasks that the Nimrod (in all its flavours) is known for, then they will need to provide a suitable airframe to do it with.
The MR2 crews were not going out there doing things because things needed to be done, they were going out doing it because they were instructed and permitted to do so.
Those crew members may well still want to do it, and they may well still think that it needs doing. However, the people in charge say no. So why is it so hard for so many people to just do as they are told?
Time will tell if this (short term) slaughter of the country's Maritime Patrol capability has been a good or bad idea, but it will not matter what anyone in a blue (any shade of blue) suit thinks. Right or wrong, the people responsible will all be safely home in time for tea and medals, with a very secure pension to fall back on.
We need to split the capacity for doing the work from the issues with that particular airframe. You may not be as aware of all of the issues with the MRA4 as the head of bean counting is.
Ask yourself, which you would prefer, no MPA or the wrong MPA?
We do not have the option of being able to say that anything is better than nothing.
That's been said before and look where it got people.
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ShuftyScope
I wonder sir, if you are aware that the link you provided to the petition, requires a donation. That in itself is not a problem, but begs the question why are donations being asked for in Dollars, or $$ if you prefer. Hmm, staunch MPA supporter here, BUT, not this time sonny.
Join Date: May 2007
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Airpolice
An interesting concept, using your reasoning why then do we need over 200 fast jets. Other than to supply jobs for fast jet pilots, and of course, all those air displays.
Why do we need an air force at all in this enlightened peaceful world
An interesting concept, using your reasoning why then do we need over 200 fast jets. Other than to supply jobs for fast jet pilots, and of course, all those air displays.
Why do we need an air force at all in this enlightened peaceful world
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Oneye
Like a good News of the World reporter, I signed the petition, made my comment, and left without the donation. I have received acknowledgement of the signature full in the knowledge they now have my e-mail to spam me, but I can live with that.
Like a good News of the World reporter, I signed the petition, made my comment, and left without the donation. I have received acknowledgement of the signature full in the knowledge they now have my e-mail to spam me, but I can live with that.
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Those who do and those who dont
While I'm at it. There are a number of people on the thread passing their views, of which they have every right. However, having been on the project myself, in a blue suit, with no love of BWoS, there are the people I recognise as knowing about the aircraft and those who, from their comments, know it only by reputation. Those that know praise the ac and those that don't tend to criticise it. It was rough around the edges, would have needed refining, but had tremendous potential. As Her Majesty spends a lot of time selecting and training her aircrew and groundcrew, it results in a lot of girls and boys who can take such rough edges and make them shine, sometimes brighter that the designer realised was possible. It has happened before and would have happened again.
And before you ask I was involved with the software. Boeing were responsible for that, it worked and then they all left to work on the P8.
And before you ask I was involved with the software. Boeing were responsible for that, it worked and then they all left to work on the P8.
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MPAs 'R' Us
Folks,
Thinking of contacting BAe and suggesting we form a "for hire" MPA squadron - they provide the airframes (already/soon available, bought and paid for) and I'll provide the crews. Anyone fancy it? I reckon there should be plenty of work available and, when the powers that be realise the enormous implications of their recent decision, I think we should be able to come some sort of amicable arrangement with HMG.
Just got to think of a punchy name for this outfit - "The mpA Team" ??
Any better suggestions?
Thinking of contacting BAe and suggesting we form a "for hire" MPA squadron - they provide the airframes (already/soon available, bought and paid for) and I'll provide the crews. Anyone fancy it? I reckon there should be plenty of work available and, when the powers that be realise the enormous implications of their recent decision, I think we should be able to come some sort of amicable arrangement with HMG.
Just got to think of a punchy name for this outfit - "The mpA Team" ??
Any better suggestions?
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Meanwhile, back at the Ranch; MPs step into battle over BAE Woodford jobs - Stockport Express
I would have been "first to comment" but the Express people chose not to publish it.
I expect BAES are really upset about closing Woodford early, before land prices start to pick up. Interestingly (well, not really), if you go to their Website </title> <meta http-equiv="Pragma" content="no-cache" /> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" /> <meta http-equiv="content-language" content="en" /> <meta name="robots" content="all,index,follow" /> <meta name="distribut
There is a career opportunity at Woodford,; according to their map, just outside Birmingham.
Today, MP David Rutley and Cheadle MP Mark Hunter met with Secretary of State for Defence Liam Fox and MOD minister Peter Luff.
Mr Rutley said afterwards: "The MOD will be reviewing the contractural terms with BAE in coming months and the site will be closed down.
"It was made very clear that ministers will be looking for an immediate closure of the programme and cancellation of all work remaining on Nimrod."
Mr Rutley said afterwards: "The MOD will be reviewing the contractural terms with BAE in coming months and the site will be closed down.
"It was made very clear that ministers will be looking for an immediate closure of the programme and cancellation of all work remaining on Nimrod."
I expect BAES are really upset about closing Woodford early, before land prices start to pick up. Interestingly (well, not really), if you go to their Website </title> <meta http-equiv="Pragma" content="no-cache" /> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" /> <meta http-equiv="content-language" content="en" /> <meta name="robots" content="all,index,follow" /> <meta name="distribut
There is a career opportunity at Woodford,; according to their map, just outside Birmingham.