Blues if not flying
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Flying suits symbolise the hard work and achievements aircrew have made to get where they are.
If you have an issue with it, go and do selection, and presuming you are deemed suitable, do the necessary trg, then you can wear one yourself.
By selection do you mean running around the Brecons for week's, in which case you have my blessing to wear your growbag with pride.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
eftr, indeed we did run around the Brecons for a week or more. Got so wet that the 10 bob note in my wallet also got soaked. Next day we got warm again as the sheet of ice on our combats insulated us from the wind.
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This current resurgence of the age-old flying siut debarcal takes me back to the mid 80's at ISK. The highly paid thinkers at the time mandated that SAR crews, on immediate readiness to get airborne within 15 mins (or quicker) of the hooter going off, wear blues rather than grow-bags. What a caffuffle (and delay) as scrambled crews struggled to get airborne whilst trying to change out of blues into flying rig. In fact, crews would often get airbone in blues and then get changed later on during the sortie ... the general attitude being 'let's get the bloody job done, try to save some poor sods lives and worry (possibly) about the rules & regs later'. I'm sure most of you would agree that this was a rediculus state of affairs and you'd probably question the sanity of the policy makers, as we did at the time. Admittedly, this salty tale may be slightly off thread, but not in terms of the source of such downright nonsense that sparked this inane thread in the first place! 
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Whiskey Tango Foxtrot - over.
I understand that these measures are a result of the 'National Recognition Study'. Dare I ask if anyone knows who commissioned this study and - dare I ask - how much it cost? 
Did they cover enemy aircraft, ships and weapon systems too?
These new uniform directives are supposedly to "support a stronger profile for the RAF"...... Why do we need a stronger profile? Do we have competitors who also provide 'Air Power'?
Has our profile diminished in recent years? Is it, by any chance, proportional to the reduction in size of the RAF? (Not to mention that the RAF is now pound for pound stretched far more thinly than I can ever remember.)
Do we need a stronger profile because there is a recruiting problem? Will seeing people driving to work in blues have much effect on this? I personally think not. When I was young, the sort of things that made me want to join up were- seeing RAF aircraft tearing through valleys at low level, - or me going to one of the many station airshows/open days that would happen each year. Obviously there are far fewer bases and far fewer aircraft and what we have has been leaned to the bone - making profile raising events impracticable. As for low flying aircraft - they do tend to be noisy and might upset a voter!
Wouldn't it be better to raise our profile by using the media with a few more fly on the wall documentary type programmes? Or would that make the public realise that things are not perhaps as they should be - putting the airships and the government in a bad light?
- Perhaps we should just distribute lots of smiling cardboard cut-out RAF personnel around the country to make the public think about us more often! ......Sigh!...
Did they cover enemy aircraft, ships and weapon systems too?These new uniform directives are supposedly to "support a stronger profile for the RAF"...... Why do we need a stronger profile? Do we have competitors who also provide 'Air Power'?
Has our profile diminished in recent years? Is it, by any chance, proportional to the reduction in size of the RAF? (Not to mention that the RAF is now pound for pound stretched far more thinly than I can ever remember.)
Do we need a stronger profile because there is a recruiting problem? Will seeing people driving to work in blues have much effect on this? I personally think not. When I was young, the sort of things that made me want to join up were- seeing RAF aircraft tearing through valleys at low level, - or me going to one of the many station airshows/open days that would happen each year. Obviously there are far fewer bases and far fewer aircraft and what we have has been leaned to the bone - making profile raising events impracticable. As for low flying aircraft - they do tend to be noisy and might upset a voter!
Wouldn't it be better to raise our profile by using the media with a few more fly on the wall documentary type programmes? Or would that make the public realise that things are not perhaps as they should be - putting the airships and the government in a bad light?
- Perhaps we should just distribute lots of smiling cardboard cut-out RAF personnel around the country to make the public think about us more often! ......Sigh!...
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Notwithstanding the latest raft of ads on the telly about how you can do so many things other than fly in the RAF, I assume the core target audience is young chaps/chapesses intent on strapping a Typhoon to their backsides? I do hope so.
Thus, a question......
When in public in short sleeve No2 (would that be 2B; blunty input required please), compare the number of times little Johnnie asks 'are you a pilot' with the number of times you get asked to help start the car/directions to the nearest wherever etc....it's a.n.other blue uniform in a sea of dull blue uniforms.
Wear a flying suit in public, complete with wings and perhaps those natty shades favoured by Pylot, and the future aviators identify you immediately.
True, some aircrew can look a bag of $hit in a flying suit, but then they are just as likely to look so in blues as well, so scotch that argument.
Thus, in BBD land, aviators would wear flying suits, period. The USAF may have changed recently, but for some time, the grobag has been dress of the day for aircrew, even those in HQ posts? Bloody right too.
In my current job, the brave guardians of the autopilot are given a different uniform to wear to identify them as that. Crikey, one's name badge even has the temerity to identify you as a pilot....how elitist...
Thus, a question......
When in public in short sleeve No2 (would that be 2B; blunty input required please), compare the number of times little Johnnie asks 'are you a pilot' with the number of times you get asked to help start the car/directions to the nearest wherever etc....it's a.n.other blue uniform in a sea of dull blue uniforms.
Wear a flying suit in public, complete with wings and perhaps those natty shades favoured by Pylot, and the future aviators identify you immediately.
True, some aircrew can look a bag of $hit in a flying suit, but then they are just as likely to look so in blues as well, so scotch that argument.Thus, in BBD land, aviators would wear flying suits, period. The USAF may have changed recently, but for some time, the grobag has been dress of the day for aircrew, even those in HQ posts? Bloody right too.
In my current job, the brave guardians of the autopilot are given a different uniform to wear to identify them as that. Crikey, one's name badge even has the temerity to identify you as a pilot....how elitist...
Blues On The Ground
How appropriate - being on the ground is blues enough so why not wear blues too & go the whole hog too !
Let us fly ! - grounded is no place to be, best head to the bar until it's time to fly again.
Let us fly ! - grounded is no place to be, best head to the bar until it's time to fly again.
Thus, a question......
When in public in short sleeve No2 (would that be 2B; blunty input required please), compare the number of times little Johnnie asks 'are you a pilot' with the number of times you get asked to help start the car/directions to the nearest wherever etc....it's a.n.other blue uniform in a sea of dull blue uniforms.
Wear a flying suit in public, complete with wings and perhaps those natty shades favoured by Pylot, and the future aviators identify you immediately.
True, some aircrew can look a bag of $hit in a flying suit, but then they are just as likely to look so in blues as well, so scotch that argument.
Thus, in BBD land, aviators would wear flying suits, period. The USAF may have changed recently, but for some time, the grobag has been dress of the day for aircrew, even those in HQ posts? Bloody right too.
In my current job, the brave guardians of the autopilot are given a different uniform to wear to identify them as that. Crikey, one's name badge even has the temerity to identify you as a pilot....how elitist...
When in public in short sleeve No2 (would that be 2B; blunty input required please), compare the number of times little Johnnie asks 'are you a pilot' with the number of times you get asked to help start the car/directions to the nearest wherever etc....it's a.n.other blue uniform in a sea of dull blue uniforms.
Wear a flying suit in public, complete with wings and perhaps those natty shades favoured by Pylot, and the future aviators identify you immediately.
True, some aircrew can look a bag of $hit in a flying suit, but then they are just as likely to look so in blues as well, so scotch that argument.Thus, in BBD land, aviators would wear flying suits, period. The USAF may have changed recently, but for some time, the grobag has been dress of the day for aircrew, even those in HQ posts? Bloody right too.
In my current job, the brave guardians of the autopilot are given a different uniform to wear to identify them as that. Crikey, one's name badge even has the temerity to identify you as a pilot....how elitist...
Please don't take this the wrong way. Joe public relates to the brave guys returning home wearing desert cam'o and not someone wearing a flying suit.
To all the guys on op's in Stan and Iraq we the British public thank you.
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I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Bean Counters have got a hand in this.
Blues are probably the cheapest form of uniform currently on issue, certainly cheaper than a flying suit/ flying boots etc...
Somebody has probably worked out that it costs less to replace a pair of No2 trousers and shirt than a flying suit or CS95 and sold it that way. Especially if the Commissioned Types have to buy them.
Likewise, there's probably a limited budget for CS95, stocks of which are probably controlled by the Army.
I remember back in the 80's/90's that flying boots were considered 'gucci' for wear on guard/exercise (pre boots combat high) and getting your mitts on a pair was a major coup. Some bright spark worked out that the RAF's yearly total of flying boots issued added up to each aircrew member wearing out 7 pairs of boots per year!
Blues are probably the cheapest form of uniform currently on issue, certainly cheaper than a flying suit/ flying boots etc...
Somebody has probably worked out that it costs less to replace a pair of No2 trousers and shirt than a flying suit or CS95 and sold it that way. Especially if the Commissioned Types have to buy them.
Likewise, there's probably a limited budget for CS95, stocks of which are probably controlled by the Army.
I remember back in the 80's/90's that flying boots were considered 'gucci' for wear on guard/exercise (pre boots combat high) and getting your mitts on a pair was a major coup. Some bright spark worked out that the RAF's yearly total of flying boots issued added up to each aircrew member wearing out 7 pairs of boots per year!
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Its Simple.....
This is simple and we are constantly having Ethos and all that Crap thrown at us by the Romper Suit wearing ones, the ones with minimal leadership experience who get to play top banana! Now its your turn.
They have this time offended you and I am agast as to the out cry.
Are we not the Royal Air Force? Do we not WEAR BLUE unless Situational circumstance dictate otherwise? You should be proud of the blue and therefore wear it to and from work, changing into Romper Suits when going flying. SIMPLE.
It is the same as a Tradesmen coming into and out of work in his Denims. They are his work attire like the Flying Suit is yours.
I really don't see your argument.
Please enlighten me ?
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The aim of the Royal Air Force is flying and fighting
The aim of those that don't is to support those that do.
If my being a 'romper suit wearer with minimal leadership skills' upsets you then why don't you just f
k off?
If, as predicted, the RAF falls below 66% manning in front line aircrew posts in the near future there probably won't be a need for quite so many support posts.
The RAF is about Air Power, which, I know may be hard to stomach to the REMFs out there, is about the people who deliver that Air Power - Aircrews!
Keep pushing and nibbling away and you will be left with a National Static Aircraft Force - who will probbly look very smart in their blues and emblazened coveralls.
The aim of those that don't is to support those that do.
If my being a 'romper suit wearer with minimal leadership skills' upsets you then why don't you just f
k off?If, as predicted, the RAF falls below 66% manning in front line aircrew posts in the near future there probably won't be a need for quite so many support posts.
The RAF is about Air Power, which, I know may be hard to stomach to the REMFs out there, is about the people who deliver that Air Power - Aircrews!
Keep pushing and nibbling away and you will be left with a National Static Aircraft Force - who will probbly look very smart in their blues and emblazened coveralls.
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Last time I checked this was a Military AIRCREW forum. I find it pathetic to read all the sniping comments from non-aircrew types who will never understand the sense of pride of pulling on a flying suit, resplendent with rank, name badge, squadron regalia and so on. If you chaps honestly believe that it is comparable to pulling on a set of mucky denims then keep deluding yourselves, but please keep those thoughts to yourselves or to other non-aircrew forums. Or perhaps you think it appropriate for aircrew to come and stick their noses into the day-to-day running of your affairs? There's good lads
A long-time prune browser (note the credibility lacking post count), I've never stuck my oar in but there you have it, a great big bite! And with that tirade, from yet another case of 'nibbled to death by ducks', I'll return to under my rock.
Now, where's that iron? The flying suit needs a once over...
A long-time prune browser (note the credibility lacking post count), I've never stuck my oar in but there you have it, a great big bite! And with that tirade, from yet another case of 'nibbled to death by ducks', I'll return to under my rock.
Now, where's that iron? The flying suit needs a once over...
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Sooms
You are spot on. The story I've heard is £12 million to kit the whole Air Force as it is now, £7 million to kit us with the new proposal.
It is all about the bean counters and nothing esle, the 'them and us arguement' has just surfaced its head as it always does once in a while.
You are spot on. The story I've heard is £12 million to kit the whole Air Force as it is now, £7 million to kit us with the new proposal.
It is all about the bean counters and nothing esle, the 'them and us arguement' has just surfaced its head as it always does once in a while.
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Originally Posted by Co-Captain
Last time I checked this was a Military AIRCREW forum. I find it pathetic to read all the sniping comments from non-aircrew types who will never understand the sense of pride of pulling on a flying suit, resplendent with rank, name badge, squadron regalia and so on.
Originally Posted by Co-Captain
Or perhaps you think it appropriate for aircrew to come and stick their noses into the day-to-day running of your affairs? There's good lads 
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Hairy muff on the first point dallas. My point still stands on flying suit/denims however.
As for their Airships? Aircrew? Hmm, nominally, yes. But now, more like politicians methinks.
All the best
As for their Airships? Aircrew? Hmm, nominally, yes. But now, more like politicians methinks.
All the best
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Just out of interest and not a poke at RAF aircrew (I never gave two hoots what the winged master race wore) but do the other two services manage to provide an effective military force whilst also complying with their respective dress codes?
Do aircrew in the Army and the RN (two organisations with longer links with aviation than the RAF) get so upset about having to take their growbags off?
Do aircrew in the Army and the RN (two organisations with longer links with aviation than the RAF) get so upset about having to take their growbags off?
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Pride....
i am with Co-Captain on the pride thing. Yes we're all proud to be in the RAF and wearing blues is part of that. For those of us who have the privilege of flying, there is an additional sense of pride in wearing one's brevet, Sqn badge and so on. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Comparing flying clothing with overalls is to fail completely tp understand why we have that sense of pride. I speak as one who as worn both during my 20 year RAF career, and so I do know the difference. The fact is that flying clothing, like rank, is a symbol of status; those who have the right to wear it enjoy that, and those who don't may well envy it. Its just the same old same old, knocking those we envy. I would encourage those of you who allow your envy to get the better of you to and use that energy in a more positive way. Perhaps yoga, or maybe model building? Or you could apply for a job as aircrew and see what all the fuss is about. Job status and rank are, after all passing things, and we are all ultimately on the same team.
It is telling that the AFB chose to wear flying suits and leather jackets with blues as part of their US visit (see earlier in the thread). They obviously want to look the part. I for one will be giving this latest lack of initiative the ignoring it deserves, and am happy to accept the punishment for arriving at my workplace dressed to the the job I am employed to do!
It is telling that the AFB chose to wear flying suits and leather jackets with blues as part of their US visit (see earlier in the thread). They obviously want to look the part. I for one will be giving this latest lack of initiative the ignoring it deserves, and am happy to accept the punishment for arriving at my workplace dressed to the the job I am employed to do!
I have been out of the mob for 14 years now, and it's is nice to see that nothing as changed.
May be if while wearing blues you could also carry a nav bag like your civil counterparts. That way we can still look on you with envy.
May be if while wearing blues you could also carry a nav bag like your civil counterparts. That way we can still look on you with envy.