Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

[Danny42C]

Reference:

"RAF Aircrew Trade/Branch | Military History Forum www.militarian.com › The Wars › World War 2 "Officially, the role of Observer was split in mid-1942. However: 1) many of those who had trained as Observers continued to wear their 'O' after this date, even though they would have been re-assigned as either a Air Bomber or Navigator. Their arguement was that they trained hard for that role and so would resist any official attem,pts at taking taht away. 2) Though officially the change was supposed to occur in mid-1942, it didn't really occur practically until very early 1943, so many of those undergoing training for most of 1942 were presented with the O wing rather the B or N "

Kyt, Jul 2, 2009 (Cited from: RAF Aircrew Trade/Branch | Military History Forum)

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mmitch (your #7430),

" Those not passing could be selected for navigator or air gunner ". Sounds as if the Bomb Aimer option had not yet come in. In late '40 I was enlisted in the VR as "u/t Pilot/Air Observer", although there were plenty of Wop/AGs around (but I don't think any "straight" AGs until later). These were certainly in by March'42, as our group of newly hatched Sgt-Pilots were under the (nominal !) Command of an equally sprog Pilot Officer AG in a Transit Camp (and none too happy about it).

And Pete (your #7432):

" One other point that I noted was that the "wash out" trades are listed as Navigator or Air Gunner. I am wondering if that should read "Air Bomber " raises the same question.

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Taphappy (your #7433 to Danny42 and Petet),

" My recollection from early 44 was that after aptitude tests at ACRC you were allocated your aircrew trade,. in my case Nav/W. If it was Pilot you then went to Grading school then to ITW. If you didn't make it at Grading School you were then remustered as Navigator or Bomb Aimer ".

So by early'44 the Bomb Aimer had joined the crew.

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mmitch (your# 7434),

Yes, by the time he was testing Concorde, ITW must have seemed a long, long way back in the past. In my memory it stands out as the best organised Course of all the ones I attended during my years in the RAF. Danny.

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Petet (your #7436),

I suppose I was "categorised" at my Selection Board (late'40) and enlisted in the VR as a "u/t Pilot/Air Observer". I do not remember being "assessed" as to my suitability for further employment at any stage of my training. Except that, at the end of Primary School, my instructor told me that he had recommended me for "Pursuit Ships" (the FJs of the time) rather than "Bombardment Ships" (although perhaps on the basis that, as a single-seater, I could only kill myself and not an entire crew !)

Thereafter, we were packed off en bloc to the same Basic and Advanced Schools; there was never any option to go for multi training (although in the end that was what the RAF would need).

(Your #7437),

AFAIK, "Vaccination" is for smallpox, we got "inoculated" for everything then known to medical science. There was a suspicion that some of the u/t Nursing Orderlies on the production line were just practising their "jabbing" skills on us with syringes full of sterile solution (instead of on oranges, then unobtainable).

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Ormeside (your #7435)

"..... We were not allowed to wear our uniforms until the tailor (s) had made sure that they fitted...."

The RAF had changed since I started two years before ! After having been roughly "sized" in the Clothing Stores at Reception Centre, you were stuck with what you'd been issued with (in my case a "part-worn" jacket) unless the SWO thought the result was too ridiculous and authorised an exchange.

Being a stock size, my kit more or less fitted me, and I kept it until I went out to India in '42 (and was commissioned out there, and handed my blues in). Often wondered what happened to the original wearer of the jacket - he'd written his service no. on the label, but I didn't take a note of it. A pity, as it might have been possible to trace him now.

"..... We were posted to No 8 Initial Training Wing at Newquay on 16th January 1943 living in commandeered hotels.pay fears tree shillings per day less 1 shilling for our national insurance....."

I went there on 1st June'41, we were billeted in the Trebarwith Annexe (the Trebarwith Hotel had been requisitioned for the RAF HQ, and we had our Airmen's Mess and lecture rooms there). I was paid 2/- a day net (less 6d "Sports Subscription" [sounds like a nice little earner for someone] and any barrack damages). After finishing the Course, we went up to 5/6 a day as LACs.
Like you, I'd started in the Civil Service (aged 16) at 30/- a week, and wouldn't have been earning much more at 19 when I enlisted.

"..... and did 70 hours on the Stearman. Weeks leave, then the mighty AT6A or Harvard or Texan!!...."

I think it probable that you had Harvards (the "Canadian Car & Foundry" were building them out there). AT-6As would have had the forward-firing single 0.300 Browning; none of the Harvards I flew later were armed. But at least you were spared the experience of the Vultee BT-13, which might have been designed with the object of demonstrating just how bad an aircraft can be and still fly.

Cheers and regards to you all, Danny.

[Danny42C]

Pete (your #7437),

"My information (which is taken from the ACRC Operations Record Book)"

My IT skills are not equal to the task, could you please try to get hold of the F.540 for the "1340 (Special Duties) Flight" in India '44 - '46 for me ?

Wiki has practically nothing on it, and you may be turned away, as it was established to serve the C.D.R.E out there, which was itself an offshoot of Porton Down and so rather hush-hush.

Let me know if you have any success, as it might be better to put anything you get on PM.

Danny.

[Petet]

1340 (Special Duties) Flight

Danny

There is a file for the 1340 Special Duty Flight, Cannanore, India at the National Archive (AIR 29/865), but is has not been digitised, which means that you either have to view it at the National Archives (for free) or get one of the commercial bulk copiers to copy it for you (I use one of these to get large files for me).

I obviously do not know the size of the file and therefore I can't estimate the cost but I can ask my copier to look at the file next time he is there and give you a rough price. You can then decide if you want to invest.

Alternatively, if you want something very specific and know what you are looking for I have a colleague who I am sure would be happy to look through the file and copy a page or two for you next time he is there (I just need to ask him nicely!).

Let me know if you would like to pursue either of these options

Regards

Pete

[Petet]

Selection / Categorisation Process

Danny

My research shows that the selection / categorisation process changed significantly during the war.

Initially the ACSBs selected candidates using the old school method of "he seemed like a good sort", primarily because they had no standard tests that they could utilise to judge each candidates ability in a particular aircrew role. Your board clearly classified you as a "good sort" and your continued input into this thread demonstrates that they were correct!

The information I have is that board members preferred the "impression" method over the "new fangled mystical scientific devices" even when tests were available.

A survey carried out in 1942 showed that there was a significant amount of wasted training effort due to misclassification by the boards

As the war progressed, the Bartlett Test and the SMA3 co-ordination test were introduced, followed by the later introduction of the battery of aptitude tests that were in place when John went through ACRC to be classified.

Regards

Pete

[Danny42C]

Pete,

There have already been far too many good things said about me on this Thread (most of them undeserved !) to last me the (fag end of) a lifetime. But thanks all the same.

I'll take your first kind offer (to ask your Copier for an estimate for the lot), please, but don't be upset if I don't buy. For a start I am a devout skinflint, and in any case it's just idle curiosity on my part. I wrote most of the final year's entries myself, and also invented those relating to the last few months of my predecessor's incumbency ("Red" McInnis, RCAF), who'd gone home to Canada, leaving a few (?) loose ends for me to tidy up. It would be interesting to see what rubbish I'd written (for I've forgotten it all now).

As to "selection", after the first Board in the early years, I think there was little of it, and what little there was was mostly done with a pin. The basic problem is: there is no way of finding whether a young man is going to make a good military pilot other than putting him in an aircraft and seeing what happens.

Anybody with a good School Certificate in Maths should make a Navigator, a ground Fitter (Engines) is tailor-made for Flight Engineer, all small boys of my time were wizards on "wireless sets" from crystal and cat's whiskers upwards, Bombing and gunnery are just practice, practice and more practice.

Volunteers had poured in in the immediate aftermath of the BoB, and the Selection Boards were able to indulge their hunches. All applicants wanted to be pilots, of course, but I think only 2% of them would actually make it.

I lived in "Interesting Times" (old Chinese Curse).

Danny.

[harrym]

Observers/ACRC

Ormeside-

On arrival at ACRC in April 43 I was allocated to Empress Court (?), a large block of (once!) luxury flats fronting Regents Park, from where we were moved after a week or so to Hall Road for no apparent reason – probably just to give us something to do, as much effort seemed to be devoted to keeping us occupied doing nothing much other than wasting time under supervision. There was one bright interval however when an outbreak of some infection (can’t remember what) necessitated the Hall Road flats being closed for fumigation, its occupants being sent home on leave for a few days – an unexpected bonus!

Ah yes that mass inoculation parade at Lords - over a hundred of us in line with upper arms bare, facing a long tunnel of grinning fiends holding large syringes with long needles who attacked us mercilessly as we shuffled along. I seem to recall about six separate jabs – smallpox, cholera, typhoid, tetanus, plague, maybe yet another and somewhere in the process I think a blood sample was taken as well – the guy in front of me passed out completely, as did one or two others, the only plus point being that we were allowed the rest of the day off.

Danny42C

The wearing of Observer brevets continued for some time after the war, though the number inevitably diminished as time passed; the last one I can recall being a navigator on 10 Sqdn in the late sixties.

[Wander00]

Had an OC Admin at Watton in the later 60s with an "O" brevet, and the boss of 1094 City of Ely ATC Sqn was an "O" brevet from Blenheims! That was early 70s

[MPN11]

Likewise an ATCO at Manby in 65-67 with an "O" brevet ... and North-West Frontier medal and GSM preceding his wartime collection

[Pom Pax]

Fast forward to Feb. '57, the procedure does not seem to have changed much. Lined up in single file to be attacked on both sides by syringe wielding orderlies using the same syringe on each fresh customer (government sanctioned syringe sharing!).
The list is the same mentioned by harrym with addition of paratyphoid, (interestingly "wiki" suggests there is no such separate inoculation) however I recall having to fill in our own record of vaccination/inoculation cards with a list of all the jabs. These being handed in at the end of the line up and duly signed by the M.O.
These cards undoubtedly still exist in some darked archive because when researching my Father's WW1 service one of the documents produced was one written in his own hand stating his birth date, home address and next of kin. So if something written in 1917 still exists something from forty years later must be nearer the top of the pile.

[smujsmith]

Pom Pax,

Jab central for me was 1969 and sounds astoundingly close to your description. Halton medical centre had steps leading to the second floor, which we new apprentices were marched up, in vests and told to place both hands on hips. There followed a procession through the medics who attempted to replicate a pincushion in each of us. As I recall the procedure was repeated three times over a six week period, with those of us who failed various tests (Schlick test ?) being required to return for further puncturing. I wonder if our modern RAF uses the same technique with recruits. As a follow up, I well remember being sent to a field hospital in Riyadh during GW1 to receive my "protective dose" against all the ills Saddam could throw at us. Saddam never threw anything to my knowledge, but the twitch I inherited as a result of the cocktail is with me to this day

Smudge

[Danny42C]

harrym (your #7445) and others,

Thanks, and now what I would really like to find was the date the "Air Bomber" speciality was introduced, and why. It appears to have been about '42, and that would fit in nicely with the arrival of the "heavies" and A.M. Harris's take-over at Bomber Command. Before that, it seems to have been the task of the Observer/Navigator, who would have to leave his position and wriggle forward into the bomb aimer's station in the nose. Clearly this was done in the "Wellington", but how practicable would it be in a Stirling, Lancaster or Halifax ?

Whatever, I believe the "Bomb Aimer" was primarily the front-gunner until they neared the target, and then he would go down into his position below the turret. It is difficult to see how much work a front- gunner could expect at night, for the pilot and f/e would have almost as good a view ahead and I can hardly visualise a head-on attack from a night fighter ! (I was out of the country from autumn '42 till the end, so have only a layman's knowledge of bomber 'ops').

The original "Air Observers" were very proud of their "flying a***'oles", and seemed to have been allowed to hang on to them to the bitter end. There were still a few around (mostly in ATC) when I retired at the end of '72.

Pom Pax (your #7448),

There was certainly a "T.A.B." (Typhoid and para-typhoid A and B). It came in two stages, as I remember, and you got them a few days apart. I was "jabbed" with it several times: it produced no more than the usual sore arm, but on one late occasion in the '50s it produced a violent reaction which laid me low for a couple of days. It may have been a bad dose of vaccine, the M.O. was quite worried.

Cheers to all, Danny.

[ancientaviator62]

The copy of the log book I have of a chap who qualified as an Air Observer in 1941 Has entries for air navigation, bombing and air gunnery courses. A total of 18 hours flying was all that is recorded to the bombing and gunnery phases.
His log book records his trips with Bomber Command as Navigator until he becomes OC 10 Sqn when they are logged as Air Bomber. When he goes out to India after 10 converted to the Dakota he logs his trips as Co Pilot.

[Taphappy]

Scarborough ACRC

Petet.

The RAF had taken over most of the big hotels in South Bay and I was billeted in what was The Prince of Wales Hotel which is now a block of flats.
I think HQ was in The Grand Hotel.
Square bashing and such like drills were carried out in the streets around the hotel often much to the amusement of the locals.
Kitting out FFIs and medical procedures were done in what was previously a school off Filey Road and as there were playing fields there that is where sporting activities took place.
The aptitude tests were conducted in the Spa Ballroom and IIRC took a whole day to complete.
I don't recall receiving any "You are going to be --- leaflets:.

John

[Petet]

Introduction / Role of the Air Bomber

At a Chief of Air Staff's conference in March 1942 it was agreed that the title observer should be changed to navigator and that a "Bombardier" should be introduced.

The name Bombardier was changed to Air Bomber at a later conference in April 1942

I have yet to find a date when the first air bombers completed their training but I am guessing it was during the summer / autumn of 1942.

The air bombers role was(*):

"To guide the aircraft over the target, to identify the aiming point and to place the bombs accurately on it.

When not in the close vicinity of the target he was needed as a member of the navigation team, which also included the pilot and the navigator. With the latter he worked in the closest collaboration, providing him with visual pinpoints, and with astro or radar observations on the journey, in this way acting as the eyes of the navigator.

In addition to this secondary function, the air bomber helped to complete the meteorological report during the flight and it was his job to set up (and read) the astro compass.

If attacked by enemy aircraft he manned a gun, usually in the forward turret, and became part of the defence team"

Regards

Pete

(*) Source: WWII flying training monograph

[Petet]

Scarborough ACRC

John

Thanks for your feedback on Scarborough; I will incorporate it into my notes on the subject.

I will see if I can work out when the air ministry introduced the "You are going to be a ........ " pamphlets

Thanks again for your help; it is very much appreciated.

Regards

Pete

[Danny42C]

Pete,

Thank you for the 'gen' on the Air Bomber. Even at that early stage we were being influenced by the US terminology ("Bombardier" is their name for him). I'm slightly amused by "...If attacked by enemy aircraft he manned a gun, usually in the forward turret...." And how long would that take ? (from the Nav station behind the pilot right forward into the Nose ?).

They seem to have been thinking of daylight raids like those of the 8th Air Force B-17 formations, which were often under sustained attack from fighters, whereas at night our "heavies" had to contend with sudden attack from a night fighter, which might last only for a few seconds. He'd hardly have time to get his head out of the astrodome before it was all over (one way or another).

I think it more likely that he would have a "roving commission" to rest the other two gunners (for it must have been impossible to keep up an intense lookout hour after hour without a break). But what am I theorising for ? There are people on this Thread who were there. Let's hear from them - or from their writings.

Cheers, Danny.

[Chugalug2]

Was not the vital challenge of the night bombing campaign that of navigating to the target and then, having found it, putting the bombs on it? Unlike the US daylight raids, when you stayed in visual formation, followed your leader, and then "toggled" off your bombs in reaction to his drop, each night bomber was its own bomber leader, often unable to see other bombers though painfully aware of their close proximity.

It seems likely that is why Navigators and Bomb Aimers were invented. The Nav could concentrate solely on getting his aircraft to the target and then back to base. The Bomb Aimer could help him in that task, passing fixes, drifts, etc en-route, until able to perform his prime function of putting the bombs onto the target (the whole point of the entire mission). Manning a gun turret, his own or anyone else's, would have been a low priority in comparison. Certainly head on night attacks, to be dealt with by the forward turret, would have been very rare I suspect.

Of course electronic aids such as H2S, Oboe, Gee, etc, aided navigation as the campaign progressed, but counter measures and inexperienced crews still meant that simply finding the target and accurately bombing it was a challenge to the very end.

[Danny42C]

Track Shortener and Chugalug,

Speaking as an outsider, it seems to me that the trouble was that they were operating with seven-man crews. The essential minimum to "work the ship" was four: (Pilot, F/E, Nav and Signaller), that leaves three others. There are three gun turrets.

So if one of the remaining three men is a Bomb Aimer, either he has to spend 99.9% of his time freezing in a turret (for he can only function at his primary task when the bombing run is in progress), or accept the fact that the front turret is likely to be of little or no use in night ops, leave it unmanned, and generally make himself useful as the Nav's helper and general factotum.

Of course, if "Shräge Musik" had been anticipated, it might have been possible to squeeze in a ventral gun position as well as a H2S in the little space left after the long bomb bays - but he would have to spend all the time in that for it to have been in any use.

How we must have envied the Americans, who were able to provide two pilots for all their multis, a separate Bombardier (what did he do in his spare time ?) and gunners for all their guns ! (having said that, they certainly needed them !)

It begs the question: what use was our front turret at night (apart from helping to part-balance the equally heavy rear turret, which had a much bigger moment of force as it was further from the CoG).

Danny.

[ICM]

Just jumping to say that the Halifax did not have a nose turret. One of the versions of the Mk II had a single .303 mounted in the nose for a while, but I understand that this was not thought to be of great value by crews.

And further to AA62's mention above of Wg Cdr A C Dowden, OC 10 Sqn from late January 1945, the Air Bombers stayed on after the end of the war in Europe when 4 Group squadrons were transferred to Transport Command for service with Dakotas in India. They flew as 2nd Pilot/Map Reader until 'proper' pilots could be provided. 10 Sqn deployed east in September 1945 and, by the end of November, had its full complement of the latter - one of the Flt Cdrs noted that "over half of them are glider bods who haven't flown since Service school and who were put onto gliding when they returned to England." At that stage the Air Bombers presumably went home if ready for Demob, but some certainly appear to have been posted to other duties in-theatre whilst waiting to go home.

[DHfan]

The Mk 1 Halifax had two .303s in a nose turret.
It was deleted in later variants as part of the search for improved performance.

According to wiki, a Lancaster Bomb Aimer just had to stand up to man the front turret.

The drawback to the American policy of extra crew, guns and ammunition was it was at the expense of bombload.
On a mission to Berlin, the B.17 only carried about 500lb (or 50lb, depending on whose book you read) more than a Mosquito.