Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
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BEagle,
Tell Ernie Bedford to buy in all the stock he can (should be plenty around now, cheap, as RAF appears to be downsizing). Bombay Bowlers would be a drug on the market, I would've thought - but then, what do I know?
What goes around, comes around.
D.
Tell Ernie Bedford to buy in all the stock he can (should be plenty around now, cheap, as RAF appears to be downsizing). Bombay Bowlers would be a drug on the market, I would've thought - but then, what do I know?
What goes around, comes around.
D.
Danny,
I for one would second your assertion of popularity. What a fine piece of headgear to wear on ones weekly peripatetic amble. If someone knows where to get one, do tell, as they say. And, doesn't AA62 wear it so well !!!
Smudge
I for one would second your assertion of popularity. What a fine piece of headgear to wear on ones weekly peripatetic amble. If someone knows where to get one, do tell, as they say. And, doesn't AA62 wear it so well !!!
Smudge
solar topee
Smujsmith
Try the South American River place or eBay - plenty available from £11 upwards..
WT
If someone knows where to get one, do tell, as they say
WT
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While many UK citizens were being trained to fly in the US & Canada, it would appear that some of our Russian allies were being trained here -
Coming Events @ Montrose Air Station Heritage Centre. Montrose visitor attraction.
There was an item on the local ITV news the other night when the Granddaughter of one of Russian pilots was interviewed.
I found it a fascinating story!
Coming Events @ Montrose Air Station Heritage Centre. Montrose visitor attraction.
There was an item on the local ITV news the other night when the Granddaughter of one of Russian pilots was interviewed.
I found it a fascinating story!
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Tales of Long Ago.
Geriaviator,
So the green/black funnels are no more ! How about the I.O.M. "Packets of Steam" ? Seems that there is only "BEN-MY-CHREE" and an interloper "MANANNAN" left.
In my boyhood there was "BEN-MY-CHREE", "KING ORRY", "MANXMAN", "MANXMAID", "MONA's ISLE" *, (and other, forgotten ones, "TYNWALD HILL" ?). There was always one berthed at the Liverpool Landing Stage, red and black funnels like little Cunarders (brazenly parked outside the Cunard (HQ) Building ! Happy holidays at Ramsey in the sunny summers of the mid-thirties !
* I have a print of an old map of Anglesey, annotated "Olim" (formerly) "Insula Mona" (the island of Mona). Seems the IOM and Anglesey got mixed up somehow. (And there is Mona airfield on Anglesey).
On reflection, it occurs to me that you embarked on a 145-mile sea crossing on one engine ! (and did it again on the way back). You are a brave man, Sir !....D.
ancientaviator62,
Re: headgear. Now I come to think of it, the Marine bandsmen I saw at Pompey had a very similar white job. Looked very smart, too (but looks to be a high-maintenance item). Ties in what you tell me about Diego Garcia.....D.
Cheers, both (and Smudge, too, for his #7056 on the water-in-fuel problem).
Danny.
PS: We've been struck with Elephantiasis of the Posts again. Can someone do the honours? D.
So the green/black funnels are no more ! How about the I.O.M. "Packets of Steam" ? Seems that there is only "BEN-MY-CHREE" and an interloper "MANANNAN" left.
In my boyhood there was "BEN-MY-CHREE", "KING ORRY", "MANXMAN", "MANXMAID", "MONA's ISLE" *, (and other, forgotten ones, "TYNWALD HILL" ?). There was always one berthed at the Liverpool Landing Stage, red and black funnels like little Cunarders (brazenly parked outside the Cunard (HQ) Building ! Happy holidays at Ramsey in the sunny summers of the mid-thirties !
* I have a print of an old map of Anglesey, annotated "Olim" (formerly) "Insula Mona" (the island of Mona). Seems the IOM and Anglesey got mixed up somehow. (And there is Mona airfield on Anglesey).
On reflection, it occurs to me that you embarked on a 145-mile sea crossing on one engine ! (and did it again on the way back). You are a brave man, Sir !....D.
ancientaviator62,
Re: headgear. Now I come to think of it, the Marine bandsmen I saw at Pompey had a very similar white job. Looked very smart, too (but looks to be a high-maintenance item). Ties in what you tell me about Diego Garcia.....D.
Cheers, both (and Smudge, too, for his #7056 on the water-in-fuel problem).
Danny.
PS: We've been struck with Elephantiasis of the Posts again. Can someone do the honours? D.
Beagle #7058,
Clothing is a regular occurance for Ascot Airways. I remember a handling agent who collected "off cuts" of lashing tape at Dakar over the Falklands and subsequent re supply trips. No surprise then that after a few months his wife had unpicked the lashing tape and converted it in to a suit that looked both cool, yet indestructible (why does Alec Guinness come to mind). It never surprised me how people around the planet can make use of what we regard as waste. I'm sure someone benefitted from the ALMs clothing donation, a shame it may have been muggers though.
Smudge
Clothing is a regular occurance for Ascot Airways. I remember a handling agent who collected "off cuts" of lashing tape at Dakar over the Falklands and subsequent re supply trips. No surprise then that after a few months his wife had unpicked the lashing tape and converted it in to a suit that looked both cool, yet indestructible (why does Alec Guinness come to mind). It never surprised me how people around the planet can make use of what we regard as waste. I'm sure someone benefitted from the ALMs clothing donation, a shame it may have been muggers though.
Smudge
Ancient aviator's post 7047 shows a line of gleaming ivories,
putting one in mind of "You'll wonder where the yellow went . .
when you brush your teeth with Pepsodent."
A caption saying who is who and their various functions
would add interest. Whoever took the shot obviously
knew a thing or two about what to say to best get the
genuine smile. Nothing as banal as "watch the dicky-bird."
putting one in mind of "You'll wonder where the yellow went . .
when you brush your teeth with Pepsodent."
A caption saying who is who and their various functions
would add interest. Whoever took the shot obviously
knew a thing or two about what to say to best get the
genuine smile. Nothing as banal as "watch the dicky-bird."
Fantome,
I suspect that the "photographer" may well have been the Ground Engineer, as the Flying crew are all there I think, including two ALMs. A smashing photograph though,mother young lady loadie on the right looks familiar, but I can't remember her name. I'm sure AA62 can fill in the details,many who took the shot.
Smudge
I suspect that the "photographer" may well have been the Ground Engineer, as the Flying crew are all there I think, including two ALMs. A smashing photograph though,mother young lady loadie on the right looks familiar, but I can't remember her name. I'm sure AA62 can fill in the details,many who took the shot.
Smudge
Ref the 'pith helmet' pic from left to right we have Nav, Air Eng, AA, Captain (Jo B) Co, and the second ALM (Billy M). Pic was taken by the G/E and I then took one of him in the kit.
Billy M was very new on the squadron and this was a screened training trip trip. We has fuel leaks, a frame change at Bahrein (which included a complete re role to full roller and side guidance), and the enforced stop at Diego Garcia. This plus the chaos of the onload at Halim provided her with very good experience of a typical 'K' route.
Billy M was very new on the squadron and this was a screened training trip trip. We has fuel leaks, a frame change at Bahrein (which included a complete re role to full roller and side guidance), and the enforced stop at Diego Garcia. This plus the chaos of the onload at Halim provided her with very good experience of a typical 'K' route.
Fantome,
sorry to disappoint you but I know exactly who the lady in the pic is.
I do not need a reunion to generate my memories. My log books usually suffice.
sorry to disappoint you but I know exactly who the lady in the pic is.
I do not need a reunion to generate my memories. My log books usually suffice.
Many years have passed since Manxman steamed into Belfast, Danny, as long ago as the day Manx Airways took their Viscount across at 2000ft to avoid airways charges and frightened the life out of me when they passed underneath! There is a fast ferry service in summer, but Manx too is long gone. Today the three-legged folk visit us via a Czech airline operating a 19-seat Czech-built and registered LET-401.
Bravely or foolishly, I crossed the Irish Sea scores of times behind one engine though I did have immersion suit, SARBE, dinghy etc. My TM and later the Arrow were expensive enough at 7/8 galls per hour, the Aztec was very nice but guzzled 25gph as well as having two engines and two props to overhaul. Lucky Danny who could hurtle back to base in his Spitfire at 60gph
I would have liked to ask Cliff and Reg whether they found icing a problem but as always it's too late; and it was hardly likely to bother a VV in India I suppose!
Last edited by Geriaviator; 23rd May 2015 at 15:04.
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Fantome (your #7069),
There was a wicked political parody of that many years ago:
"You'll wonder where the George Brown went
- When Harold forms his Government"....D.
Geriaviator,
Although you'd armed yourself with all the mod coms, I still prefer to have the brown stuff on the map under me rather than the blue !
We were told that our Mk.I Spits (Merlin II), if you pulled them back to 1700rpm and -2lb boost (26in Hg to you youngsters), and leaned them out a bit, would keep you up @ 16gph (ie 5 hours endurance). (Never tried it, don't know if it's true). Full bore (3000 and +6½lb) would go through your 85 gallons in an hour. But that was plated on the panel: "Take off, or 5 mins combat only".
There was a (Fairy?) story going the rounds (to inspire confidence in the Merlin):
Seems the Rolls-Royce engineers decided to see how long one would run on full boost before something happened. They coupled it to a dynamometer, opened up and waited. At the end of a week it was roaring away happily and still giving rated power. Finally they overrode the ABC ("pressing THE Tit"), giving +9lb (say 48in) - IIRC - and sat back. It ran for 72 hours more before it blew up. Or so the story went.
Wonderful, nostalgic picture of the Geriaviator siblings! (seems your little sister had to rely only on her crowning glory, while you sheltered under a BB bigger than your head). Curious to see the palm leaf/bamboo "basha" walls of the Geriaviator MQ (just the same as ours in the jungle). Would have thought that in posh places like Poona (sorry, "Pune"), they would go in for something more substantial - after all they had a brick boundary wall, and had a pitched (corrugated iron ?) roof ....D.
Picture rather large, Geri, can you do the necessary?
Cheers both, Danny.
There was a wicked political parody of that many years ago:
"You'll wonder where the George Brown went
- When Harold forms his Government"....D.
Geriaviator,
Although you'd armed yourself with all the mod coms, I still prefer to have the brown stuff on the map under me rather than the blue !
We were told that our Mk.I Spits (Merlin II), if you pulled them back to 1700rpm and -2lb boost (26in Hg to you youngsters), and leaned them out a bit, would keep you up @ 16gph (ie 5 hours endurance). (Never tried it, don't know if it's true). Full bore (3000 and +6½lb) would go through your 85 gallons in an hour. But that was plated on the panel: "Take off, or 5 mins combat only".
There was a (Fairy?) story going the rounds (to inspire confidence in the Merlin):
Seems the Rolls-Royce engineers decided to see how long one would run on full boost before something happened. They coupled it to a dynamometer, opened up and waited. At the end of a week it was roaring away happily and still giving rated power. Finally they overrode the ABC ("pressing THE Tit"), giving +9lb (say 48in) - IIRC - and sat back. It ran for 72 hours more before it blew up. Or so the story went.
Wonderful, nostalgic picture of the Geriaviator siblings! (seems your little sister had to rely only on her crowning glory, while you sheltered under a BB bigger than your head). Curious to see the palm leaf/bamboo "basha" walls of the Geriaviator MQ (just the same as ours in the jungle). Would have thought that in posh places like Poona (sorry, "Pune"), they would go in for something more substantial - after all they had a brick boundary wall, and had a pitched (corrugated iron ?) roof ....D.
Picture rather large, Geri, can you do the necessary?
Cheers both, Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 22nd May 2015 at 20:49. Reason: Spacing.
Flt. Lt. Bill keighley
frederick william spink keighley (From The Northern Echo)
Texel
Bill was laid to rest last Monday with a service in Piercebridge where his son has laid since June 1972.
Bill was 99.
He was joined the RAF before WW2 and told me a little of his history.
He was arrested by gendarmes during the Spanish civil war having decided to have a jolly with a pal along the Pyranees.
During the Battle of Britain he volunteered for a "one way" mission of a daylight raid on Germany...Churchill's idea of taking the heat off the fighter squadrons.
Having been shot up by Messerschmitts (the first pass killed his gunner) he headed for cloud cover where he lost the fighters. He described watching a propellor arching into the North Sea after the engine failed but said the Blenheim wasn't a problem on one engine...
After the second engine seized he did a 180 and managed to glide onto a beach of Texel.
After his wounds had healed he spent most of the war in stalag luft drei and participated in the death march.
The family was devastated after the death of their son...Jerry...my pal...in Papa India...the Trident that stalled after take off at Heathrow...but destroyed by what many of us perceived as BEA blaming Jerry for the accident.
Bill didn't speak about this although he read my autobiography with interest and asked me what was the point?
It was only after speaking to Sue - Bills daughter - who had found a drawer of correspondence between her parents and BEA, apparently trying to get the truth about the "accident", that I realised how much "protecting the establishment" had affected the family.
Whilst the recent National Geographic disaster program shifted the blame from captain key and SO Keighley it did so at the expense of the P3 - SO Ticehurst, Captain Collins on the jump seat and FO Flavell who was one of the pilots who had a preflight argument in the crew room.
IMHO an absolute disgrace when after over 40 years the truth should be known.
Bill was a gentleman - on my last visit I drove him along Swalesdale where his Grandfather had built a house - wonderful company although very deaf and loosing his site.
His hallway had a WW1 Camel propellor adorning it...a true aviator
RIP.
Texel
Bill was laid to rest last Monday with a service in Piercebridge where his son has laid since June 1972.
Bill was 99.
He was joined the RAF before WW2 and told me a little of his history.
He was arrested by gendarmes during the Spanish civil war having decided to have a jolly with a pal along the Pyranees.
During the Battle of Britain he volunteered for a "one way" mission of a daylight raid on Germany...Churchill's idea of taking the heat off the fighter squadrons.
Having been shot up by Messerschmitts (the first pass killed his gunner) he headed for cloud cover where he lost the fighters. He described watching a propellor arching into the North Sea after the engine failed but said the Blenheim wasn't a problem on one engine...
After the second engine seized he did a 180 and managed to glide onto a beach of Texel.
After his wounds had healed he spent most of the war in stalag luft drei and participated in the death march.
The family was devastated after the death of their son...Jerry...my pal...in Papa India...the Trident that stalled after take off at Heathrow...but destroyed by what many of us perceived as BEA blaming Jerry for the accident.
Bill didn't speak about this although he read my autobiography with interest and asked me what was the point?
It was only after speaking to Sue - Bills daughter - who had found a drawer of correspondence between her parents and BEA, apparently trying to get the truth about the "accident", that I realised how much "protecting the establishment" had affected the family.
Whilst the recent National Geographic disaster program shifted the blame from captain key and SO Keighley it did so at the expense of the P3 - SO Ticehurst, Captain Collins on the jump seat and FO Flavell who was one of the pilots who had a preflight argument in the crew room.
IMHO an absolute disgrace when after over 40 years the truth should be known.
Bill was a gentleman - on my last visit I drove him along Swalesdale where his Grandfather had built a house - wonderful company although very deaf and loosing his site.
His hallway had a WW1 Camel propellor adorning it...a true aviator
RIP.
Perhaps you may have already answered this one Danny, but, during your time on the sub continent what was the attitude to the wearing of uniform, as opposed to being comfortable or practicable? I only ask as I often fell foul of "dress regs" when operating as a GE with Albert airways some years ago. The lack of thatch on top meant that many, hot and sunny places made it necessary to don a protective hat to allow me to work, sometimes for many hours, on top of an engine etc. I particularly remember a VC10 captain who really "lost it" having arrived on his air conditioned wonder jet, and decided to give me both barrels. Of course, I was fixing a broken aircraft, you guys were fighting a war. Any reminiscences about dress, uniform and flying clothing ?
Smudge
Smudge
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Smudge,
In India and Burma during the war, it was quite simple. By day you wore khaki cellular shirt or bush jacket and KD shorts, khaki woolen long socks and (according to taste), chaplis ("Jesus sandals") or sambhur skin "desert boots".*
Dusk-dawn it was bushjacket or long-sleeved shirt, KD slacks and desert boots. No underwear at any time (it would only give you "dhobi-rash"), and we had no civilian clothes.
* With thick sponge rubber soles (to insulate you from the hot ground) - colloquially "brothel creepers".
On the very, very rare parade, you wore KD tunic, with cellular shirt and black tie, and KD shorts or slacks and your black issue shoes (dredged from the bottom of your kitbag or tin box, and usually green with mould). As this was horribly hot, people only wore it if ordered. The tunic was the only thing that had brass buttons, but these were not sewn on, but the loop went through little "button holes", and was secured by brass split pins. This, of course, was to enable it to be "dhobied" after each wearing, as it (and everything else) would be soaked in sweat in the hot months.
On ops, it was a case of individual choice (cf my p.137 #2726 "The Well Dressed Danny"). You flew in your ordinary KD, with cloth helmet.
At the very end, the colour changed to Jungle Green - "bottle green battle-dress" (or "battle-green bottle dress !"), but I never bought any of that (all your drill and cellular cloth you bought, dirt cheap, from Stores or the "Officers' Shop"). A dherzi would run it up to measure for a rupee or so.
On your head, you wore your Cap SD, or the Aussie Bush Hat (never a "Bombay Bowler", although we were issued with them).
Danny.
In India and Burma during the war, it was quite simple. By day you wore khaki cellular shirt or bush jacket and KD shorts, khaki woolen long socks and (according to taste), chaplis ("Jesus sandals") or sambhur skin "desert boots".*
Dusk-dawn it was bushjacket or long-sleeved shirt, KD slacks and desert boots. No underwear at any time (it would only give you "dhobi-rash"), and we had no civilian clothes.
* With thick sponge rubber soles (to insulate you from the hot ground) - colloquially "brothel creepers".
On the very, very rare parade, you wore KD tunic, with cellular shirt and black tie, and KD shorts or slacks and your black issue shoes (dredged from the bottom of your kitbag or tin box, and usually green with mould). As this was horribly hot, people only wore it if ordered. The tunic was the only thing that had brass buttons, but these were not sewn on, but the loop went through little "button holes", and was secured by brass split pins. This, of course, was to enable it to be "dhobied" after each wearing, as it (and everything else) would be soaked in sweat in the hot months.
On ops, it was a case of individual choice (cf my p.137 #2726 "The Well Dressed Danny"). You flew in your ordinary KD, with cloth helmet.
At the very end, the colour changed to Jungle Green - "bottle green battle-dress" (or "battle-green bottle dress !"), but I never bought any of that (all your drill and cellular cloth you bought, dirt cheap, from Stores or the "Officers' Shop"). A dherzi would run it up to measure for a rupee or so.
On your head, you wore your Cap SD, or the Aussie Bush Hat (never a "Bombay Bowler", although we were issued with them).
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 24th May 2015 at 22:57. Reason: Spacing and Addn.
Quite why RAF groundcrew always appeared so scruffy and unkempt whilst working on aircraft was beyond me - you never saw USAF or other air forces' personnel so badly dressed.
