Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
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Warmtoast,
Thanks for the Link - the line drawing takes my breath away ! A Harvard with a fuselage front gun in a barbette, another in-wing(s), and another (Browning ?) sticking out at the back, after the back half of the "glasshouse" had been removed (any provision of a means to stop you blowing your own tail off ?).
Did this thing really exist ? Or was it the product of some fevered imagination ? Allowing 232lb for each of three forward guns + 400 rounds ammo each (and could the two wing guns be 0.50s - looks like it on the drawing - in which case at least 100lb (?) per gun more, plus 152lb for the rear one; in the worst scenario your Harvard would be lifting 1048lb extra plus whatever bombs they hung on it. Any effect on performance ?
(Weight figures for [same] guns from "Vengeance" [Peter C. Smith]).
Harvard normal load: 1458lb ("The Canadian Museum of Flight"), of which [I guess] 100lb would be fuel [say 140 galls at 5 ampg = 700 miles, which is about right], leaves 1358lb, say 600lb for crew, so "pay"load is 758lb.
Article also states: (Guns (or Gun) was carried close to the wing root in the starboard wing in training roll for target practice on the ranges).
How was it fired ? (electrically, I suppose, there being no compressed air in a Harvard). Any way of cocking it ?
Long Arm of Coincidence: I commanded 1340 Flight, RAF, from Mar'45 to Mar'46 (Any relation to the 1340 Flight mentioned ?)
Wonders never cease !
Cheers, Danny.
Thanks for the Link - the line drawing takes my breath away ! A Harvard with a fuselage front gun in a barbette, another in-wing(s), and another (Browning ?) sticking out at the back, after the back half of the "glasshouse" had been removed (any provision of a means to stop you blowing your own tail off ?).
Did this thing really exist ? Or was it the product of some fevered imagination ? Allowing 232lb for each of three forward guns + 400 rounds ammo each (and could the two wing guns be 0.50s - looks like it on the drawing - in which case at least 100lb (?) per gun more, plus 152lb for the rear one; in the worst scenario your Harvard would be lifting 1048lb extra plus whatever bombs they hung on it. Any effect on performance ?
(Weight figures for [same] guns from "Vengeance" [Peter C. Smith]).
Harvard normal load: 1458lb ("The Canadian Museum of Flight"), of which [I guess] 100lb would be fuel [say 140 galls at 5 ampg = 700 miles, which is about right], leaves 1358lb, say 600lb for crew, so "pay"load is 758lb.
Article also states: (Guns (or Gun) was carried close to the wing root in the starboard wing in training roll for target practice on the ranges).
How was it fired ? (electrically, I suppose, there being no compressed air in a Harvard). Any way of cocking it ?
Long Arm of Coincidence: I commanded 1340 Flight, RAF, from Mar'45 to Mar'46 (Any relation to the 1340 Flight mentioned ?)
Wonders never cease !
Cheers, Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 11th Aug 2014 at 13:32. Reason: Speling !
Danny,
even as I was reading the latest posts ref the Harvard one flew over the house ! No I am not hallucinating it has to be the one that is kept at Shoreham.
Wonderful sound too.
even as I was reading the latest posts ref the Harvard one flew over the house ! No I am not hallucinating it has to be the one that is kept at Shoreham.
Wonderful sound too.
1340 Flight
Danny
I think they're one and the same - issued by the RAF when they need to identify a "Flight" for a relatively short time rather issuing a full squadron number.
The full title of the flight in Kenya in the 1950's was "No. 1340 (Harvard) Flight."
A more in-depth article about the activities of the flight in Kenya can be found here:
1954 | 3060 | Flight Archive
Long Arm of Coincidence: I commanded 1340 Flight, RAF, from Mar'45 to Mar'46 (Any relation to the 1340 Flight mentioned ?)
The full title of the flight in Kenya in the 1950's was "No. 1340 (Harvard) Flight."
A more in-depth article about the activities of the flight in Kenya can be found here:
1954 | 3060 | Flight Archive
Post war navigator training.
roadsman.
Very interesting tale of postwar navigator training.
I was a Staff W/op at Topcliffe from Sept 46 to February 48 and no doubt flew with your dad at some time.
Whilst agreeing that the Wimpeys were shall we say a bit on the tired side, I dont recall having to take up crash positions on take off and landing.
Very interesting tale of postwar navigator training.
I was a Staff W/op at Topcliffe from Sept 46 to February 48 and no doubt flew with your dad at some time.
Whilst agreeing that the Wimpeys were shall we say a bit on the tired side, I dont recall having to take up crash positions on take off and landing.
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Per Ardua ad Astra,
roadsman,
First, my delayed "Welcome aboard !" - to this, the finest Thread in "Military Aviation" - to you and your Dad. Tell him, he's among friends here.
It is particularly interesting to get 'gen' from that strange time immediately after '46 (nb "duration of hostilities " has become "duration of the present emergency" (what emergency , for Pete's sake ?) before the (much smaller, leaner, fitter ?) RAF got properly back on its feet again.
".....RAF Martlesham Heath and scrounged flights in the Ansons based at the airfield. It was during these flights he noticed that the Navigators appeared to be busy all the time and he decided that is what he wanted to become when he joined the RAF....". (Now if he'd said "Pilot" or "Bomb Aimer", that would be more like it ! - ah, the zeal of youth). I went to Martlesham with my R.(Aux).A.F. unit on Summer Camp in'52. Nice place.
"He selected Navigator as his first choice. He accepted the King’s shilling and joined the RAF Volunteer Reserve" Why didn't they put him straight into the RAF ? Was he treated as if he was just on National Service ? I thought the VR ended with the War, and wasn't reconstituted until'48 - it's all very puzzling.
".....at the time Navigators were still being trained using the one year wartime syllabus.The new course were to be nearly two years long....." I thought they only did 6 months in war - but there are many people here who can (and will, no doubt, !) prove me wrong.
"..... After successfully completing the course he was awarded his navigator brevet and given the rank of Nav IV....." The old "Hennessy Four Star" system ! - a bad idea from the start, to distinguish "proper" Sergeants from these "Johnnie-come-lately" aircrew types. As I recall, 'IV' was 'u/t"; 'III' equated to Sgt; 'II' F/Sgt; and 'I' W.O. - then they changed their minds and called all the 'I's "Master" (Pilot, Nav, Bomb Aimer........etc). Then they scrapped the lot and went back to good old Sgt and F/Sgt - but hung on to the 'Masters',* and we had these for a long time afterwards. Does it all make sense to you ? No, not to me either !
".....His pilot at Swinderby was a Polish Flight Sergeant called Jurczyczysn ....." All right, I know when I'm beaten ! I'll go quietly ! You pronounce it !
"Dad continued flying until 1970 and retired from the RAF in 1983.... " You can't, you just can't , leave us like that ! Much more please, roadsman ! - and soon.
Many thanks and regards to you both, Danny.
Edit:
Note * :
Strange: it almost looks as if they were unwilling to admit their mistake and therefore retained one trace of it to justify the change. A very similar thing was done in the case of the gold-winged monstrosity which was introduced around '50 to replace the wartine pattern No.1 S.D. jacket.
When commonsense at last returned, and they threw the thing out of the window, the wartime jacket came back - but still minus the fourth button ! (to safe face ?)
D.
First, my delayed "Welcome aboard !" - to this, the finest Thread in "Military Aviation" - to you and your Dad. Tell him, he's among friends here.
It is particularly interesting to get 'gen' from that strange time immediately after '46 (nb "duration of hostilities " has become "duration of the present emergency" (what emergency , for Pete's sake ?) before the (much smaller, leaner, fitter ?) RAF got properly back on its feet again.
".....RAF Martlesham Heath and scrounged flights in the Ansons based at the airfield. It was during these flights he noticed that the Navigators appeared to be busy all the time and he decided that is what he wanted to become when he joined the RAF....". (Now if he'd said "Pilot" or "Bomb Aimer", that would be more like it ! - ah, the zeal of youth). I went to Martlesham with my R.(Aux).A.F. unit on Summer Camp in'52. Nice place.
"He selected Navigator as his first choice. He accepted the King’s shilling and joined the RAF Volunteer Reserve" Why didn't they put him straight into the RAF ? Was he treated as if he was just on National Service ? I thought the VR ended with the War, and wasn't reconstituted until'48 - it's all very puzzling.
".....at the time Navigators were still being trained using the one year wartime syllabus.The new course were to be nearly two years long....." I thought they only did 6 months in war - but there are many people here who can (and will, no doubt, !) prove me wrong.
"..... After successfully completing the course he was awarded his navigator brevet and given the rank of Nav IV....." The old "Hennessy Four Star" system ! - a bad idea from the start, to distinguish "proper" Sergeants from these "Johnnie-come-lately" aircrew types. As I recall, 'IV' was 'u/t"; 'III' equated to Sgt; 'II' F/Sgt; and 'I' W.O. - then they changed their minds and called all the 'I's "Master" (Pilot, Nav, Bomb Aimer........etc). Then they scrapped the lot and went back to good old Sgt and F/Sgt - but hung on to the 'Masters',* and we had these for a long time afterwards. Does it all make sense to you ? No, not to me either !
".....His pilot at Swinderby was a Polish Flight Sergeant called Jurczyczysn ....." All right, I know when I'm beaten ! I'll go quietly ! You pronounce it !
"Dad continued flying until 1970 and retired from the RAF in 1983.... " You can't, you just can't , leave us like that ! Much more please, roadsman ! - and soon.
Many thanks and regards to you both, Danny.
Edit:
Note * :
Strange: it almost looks as if they were unwilling to admit their mistake and therefore retained one trace of it to justify the change. A very similar thing was done in the case of the gold-winged monstrosity which was introduced around '50 to replace the wartine pattern No.1 S.D. jacket.
When commonsense at last returned, and they threw the thing out of the window, the wartime jacket came back - but still minus the fourth button ! (to safe face ?)
D.
Last edited by Danny42C; 12th Aug 2014 at 22:01. Reason: Format & Punctuation, also Add Text.
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This morning I read the obituary of Lieutenant Gordon 'Curly' Pickard
The paragraph
struck me as relevant to this thread.
I wonder what other far flung corners of Empire trained aircrew that have not been covered in this thread. I realise this was FAA training but did the R.A.F. offer a “knife-and-fork course”?
As an aside the R.A.A.F. had a training school here in Kalgoorlie and one of its hangars remains in use to this day by the Royal Flying Doctor Service. Also at Merredin (half way to Perth) was another school where now China Southern conduct all of their ab-initio training.
The paragraph
He was not called up until New Year’s Day 1941, when he became a naval airman 2nd Class at HSM St Vincent in Gosport. After training in Trinidad he returned to London to attend the two-week “knife-and-fork course” for potential officers at Greenwich.
I wonder what other far flung corners of Empire trained aircrew that have not been covered in this thread. I realise this was FAA training but did the R.A.F. offer a “knife-and-fork course”?
As an aside the R.A.A.F. had a training school here in Kalgoorlie and one of its hangars remains in use to this day by the Royal Flying Doctor Service. Also at Merredin (half way to Perth) was another school where now China Southern conduct all of their ab-initio training.
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Danny42C,
Thank you for your kind welcoming comments.
Flight Sergeant Jurczyczysn was called Jay by everybody who knew him!
Dad went on to fly in Shackleton mark 1,2 & 3s during the 1950s. Twin Pins in Aden on 78 Squadron. Beverleys at Abingdon, Thorney island and Seletar. and Varsitys at Topcliffe.
Thank you for your kind welcoming comments.
Flight Sergeant Jurczyczysn was called Jay by everybody who knew him!
Dad went on to fly in Shackleton mark 1,2 & 3s during the 1950s. Twin Pins in Aden on 78 Squadron. Beverleys at Abingdon, Thorney island and Seletar. and Varsitys at Topcliffe.
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Originally Posted by Pom Pax
I realise this was FAA training but did the R.A.F. offer a “knife-and-fork course”?
Roadsman
Re you father flying Beverleys at Abingdon. I was stationed at Abingdon in 1959 and took the two photos below there. May bring back memories to your Dad.
Was he there when Brigitte Bardot made her visit in summer of 1959?
The Officers Mess refused her entry for a drink (probably because they considered her improperly dressed), whereupon the Sgts mess stepped in and she had a drink with them.
Re you father flying Beverleys at Abingdon. I was stationed at Abingdon in 1959 and took the two photos below there. May bring back memories to your Dad.
Was he there when Brigitte Bardot made her visit in summer of 1959?
The Officers Mess refused her entry for a drink (probably because they considered her improperly dressed), whereupon the Sgts mess stepped in and she had a drink with them.
Last edited by Warmtoast; 12th Aug 2014 at 22:37.
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@ Wander00 ... no, it was a Regt officer on "Happy H" 
I used to wear an SD hat with combats for shooting at Bisley (to keep sun/rain out of my eyes) until a VVSO passed the message that I was to desist. Well, it was the one I wore on my Graduation, so by the early 90s it was very dilapidated!
I used to wear an SD hat with combats for shooting at Bisley (to keep sun/rain out of my eyes) until a VVSO passed the message that I was to desist. Well, it was the one I wore on my Graduation, so by the early 90s it was very dilapidated!
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Danny and the Pigeon Fancier.
I think it was almost at the end of my time in the RAF. One summer Leeming's main (16/34) was put u/s for some reason, repainting, resurfacing, whatever. Training (including night sessions) continued as normal. The JPs had been moved over to Dishforth, and the instructors and studes bussed out every day.
Dishforth had always been our RLG.,it had a 6,000ft (15/33) runway and a "Gaydon" pattern Tower at the N.end. PAR/AR-1 stayed at Leeming, of course, I think there was still a CA/DF at Dishforth, but can't be sure; but in any case it could only have been used for odd QDMs and QTEs, for all Controlled Descents, etc. were still done at Leeming, our JPs then flying VMC to Dishforth (only 10 miles south straight down the A1). Again, exmudmover, where are you ? (to spot errors and fill in the gaps).
All in all, ATC life was fairly pleasant at Dishforth, and I think little else but Local Control plus the odd QDM was needed, and one Controller could easily handle that in the top Tower with the slave CA/DF console there. A dual JP took off on 15 one morning. "Do you know ?", called the instructor in a pained voice: "that there's a chap with a van parked on the road just the other side of the hedge ? He's turned loose a whole crowd of pigeons, I've only just managed to miss them !" And indeed the birds were wheeling round over the field, racing pigeons, I suppose, picking up their bearings before setting Course for home. "Yes, I can see it, sir", confirmed the Runway Controller (up at my end), "It's quite a big van, right in line with the runway".
Clearly this was Something Up to Which we Could Not Put. I stopped take offs, broadcast a warning on Approach to "Leeming Combine" (luckily we'd nothing in circuit), and sent a lad with the L/Rover down to bid the unwelcome visitor cease, desist and begone. He drove down to a spot on our side of the hedge, and called our message over to the offender, who was preparing to release the next batch (apparently this has to be done at precisely timed and duly recorded intervals).
But perhaps our Assistant had delivered this demand in a little too peremptory a fashion, as it fell on stony ground. Instead, the pigeon man angrily declared that he had every
right to release his pigeons there; he was on a public road after all; he was a Yorkshire man on Yorkshire soil, and no little was going to tell him what to do. As for its aircraft, the RAF should mind its own business. So saying, he turned loose the next batch, and everything was a mass of whirring wings and feathers for a few moments
Seeing that the man was large and bellicose, that only the hedge stood between them , and that didn't look exactly stock-proof, our chap hurriedly changed tack and tried sweet reason, pointing out that, not only would our aircraft be inconvenienced if they ingested one, but that one or more prized (and very valuable) racing birds (in his charge) would come out the back end well minced and fit only for pigeon-burgers.
That produced the desired result; our pigeon fancier up-staked and moved a mile or so up the road. We'd had the binoculars on this little drama, saw the van move off, and Dishforth opened again for business.
On this occasion, as sometimes happened, I'd been joined in the Tower by our junior M.O. (I think Leeming must have had two at the time), for a cup of tea and a chat. He was down there obviously because Leeming itself was hors-de-combat for the duration of the runway work; so any blood spilt would be at Dishforth, and his services more likely to be needed there.
As lunchtime approached, things had become very quiet. I put a monitor on frequency, took my headset off (to natter more easily) and put it down on the desk. Should an aircraft call, I'd pick up the (boom) mic and reply. Someone called for joining. I did so and gave him the spiel. "Say again !" he came back, I did so, "Can't hear you - you're very faint !", I tried again, louder, "No good - your mic's u/s !"
Then my Assistant touched my elbow gently, and pointed to - the bowl of my pipe, which I'd picked out of an ashtray and had been addressing all the time ! This was my first "Senior Moment", as I recall. All around were greatly amused - but I saw the M.O. looking at me with clinical concern !
Goodnight, all.
Danny42C.
Mind what you're doing !
Dishforth had always been our RLG.,it had a 6,000ft (15/33) runway and a "Gaydon" pattern Tower at the N.end. PAR/AR-1 stayed at Leeming, of course, I think there was still a CA/DF at Dishforth, but can't be sure; but in any case it could only have been used for odd QDMs and QTEs, for all Controlled Descents, etc. were still done at Leeming, our JPs then flying VMC to Dishforth (only 10 miles south straight down the A1). Again, exmudmover, where are you ? (to spot errors and fill in the gaps).
All in all, ATC life was fairly pleasant at Dishforth, and I think little else but Local Control plus the odd QDM was needed, and one Controller could easily handle that in the top Tower with the slave CA/DF console there. A dual JP took off on 15 one morning. "Do you know ?", called the instructor in a pained voice: "that there's a chap with a van parked on the road just the other side of the hedge ? He's turned loose a whole crowd of pigeons, I've only just managed to miss them !" And indeed the birds were wheeling round over the field, racing pigeons, I suppose, picking up their bearings before setting Course for home. "Yes, I can see it, sir", confirmed the Runway Controller (up at my end), "It's quite a big van, right in line with the runway".
Clearly this was Something Up to Which we Could Not Put. I stopped take offs, broadcast a warning on Approach to "Leeming Combine" (luckily we'd nothing in circuit), and sent a lad with the L/Rover down to bid the unwelcome visitor cease, desist and begone. He drove down to a spot on our side of the hedge, and called our message over to the offender, who was preparing to release the next batch (apparently this has to be done at precisely timed and duly recorded intervals).
But perhaps our Assistant had delivered this demand in a little too peremptory a fashion, as it fell on stony ground. Instead, the pigeon man angrily declared that he had every
right to release his pigeons there; he was on a public road after all; he was a Yorkshire man on Yorkshire soil, and no little was going to tell him what to do. As for its aircraft, the RAF should mind its own business. So saying, he turned loose the next batch, and everything was a mass of whirring wings and feathers for a few momentsSeeing that the man was large and bellicose, that only the hedge stood between them , and that didn't look exactly stock-proof, our chap hurriedly changed tack and tried sweet reason, pointing out that, not only would our aircraft be inconvenienced if they ingested one, but that one or more prized (and very valuable) racing birds (in his charge) would come out the back end well minced and fit only for pigeon-burgers.
That produced the desired result; our pigeon fancier up-staked and moved a mile or so up the road. We'd had the binoculars on this little drama, saw the van move off, and Dishforth opened again for business.
On this occasion, as sometimes happened, I'd been joined in the Tower by our junior M.O. (I think Leeming must have had two at the time), for a cup of tea and a chat. He was down there obviously because Leeming itself was hors-de-combat for the duration of the runway work; so any blood spilt would be at Dishforth, and his services more likely to be needed there.
As lunchtime approached, things had become very quiet. I put a monitor on frequency, took my headset off (to natter more easily) and put it down on the desk. Should an aircraft call, I'd pick up the (boom) mic and reply. Someone called for joining. I did so and gave him the spiel. "Say again !" he came back, I did so, "Can't hear you - you're very faint !", I tried again, louder, "No good - your mic's u/s !"
Then my Assistant touched my elbow gently, and pointed to - the bowl of my pipe, which I'd picked out of an ashtray and had been addressing all the time ! This was my first "Senior Moment", as I recall. All around were greatly amused - but I saw the M.O. looking at me with clinical concern !
Goodnight, all.
Danny42C.
Mind what you're doing !
Last edited by Danny42C; 14th Aug 2014 at 15:20. Reason: (1) Spell ! (2) "Censored" has gone walkabout. Will try to put it back.
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A quick note of thanks and encouragement: I've just caught up to the end of this thread, having started reading page 1 months ago with Cliff and then Reg and now Danny and of course the many others who contributions have been indeed making this the best thread on this site, as well as the best thread on any of the other forums that I partake of. Keep up the excellent work!
Last edited by ElectroVlasic; 13th Aug 2014 at 23:54.
Danny, your pigeon fancier's tale reminds me of one I once heard. One of the hire car company drivers that drove Dan-Air crews to/from outstation crew changes was once a police officer. One of his colleagues had been in the pigeon owning fraternity, but was also confined to the station doing clerical work having crossed his superior. It happened that a party of prisoners, having had their fates pronounced by the local beak, were to be returned to prison. No-one else was available to drive them so he was given the task. He was to go straight there and straight back, was that clearly understood? "Yes, Sir", though thinking that now at last there was a chance to release his birds that day, at the time and place decreed.
So it was, with prisoners in the back of a Black Maria he called at his home and put a basket full of his feathered friends in with them. He wasn't going to lock them in, and when he told them, they were to open the rear door, release the birds, and then close the door again. He would be watching closely and woe betide them if they deviated an iota from his instructions. Did they understand? "Yes, Officer!".
All went splendidly according to plan. The pigeons were released at exactly the right time and location, and those retained at Her Majesty's pleasure duly delivered to their Pied a Terre. He returned for yet more mind numbingly clerical duties to the nick, though in quiet satisfaction of a job well done. Not much later however he was called to the office of his superior, who had received a report from a member of the public that had been following a Police van. The rear door had briefly opened and a flock of pigeons had emerged and flown off. Did he know anything about it, being a known fancier and all....? He emerged a little later knowing that the end of his paper pushing days were now but a distant pinprick of light at the end of a very dark tunnel indeed.
So it was, with prisoners in the back of a Black Maria he called at his home and put a basket full of his feathered friends in with them. He wasn't going to lock them in, and when he told them, they were to open the rear door, release the birds, and then close the door again. He would be watching closely and woe betide them if they deviated an iota from his instructions. Did they understand? "Yes, Officer!".
All went splendidly according to plan. The pigeons were released at exactly the right time and location, and those retained at Her Majesty's pleasure duly delivered to their Pied a Terre. He returned for yet more mind numbingly clerical duties to the nick, though in quiet satisfaction of a job well done. Not much later however he was called to the office of his superior, who had received a report from a member of the public that had been following a Police van. The rear door had briefly opened and a flock of pigeons had emerged and flown off. Did he know anything about it, being a known fancier and all....? He emerged a little later knowing that the end of his paper pushing days were now but a distant pinprick of light at the end of a very dark tunnel indeed.
Ah, Danny42c, you've just reminded me of an incident at Finningley in the days of the magnificent Tin Triangle.
Perusing the estate from top-tower the SATCO (S/L Harry Dyer) espied a gentleman + 2 Whippets walking in a meaningful way towards the main runway from the narrow road behind the tower.
With the SATCO's encouraging words "to get that off my airfield", P/O FZ set off in 'Rover' to shift the offending article. As I approached the man another emerged from the boundary hedge, he was huge and carrying some sort of stick ... "mm, tricky" thinks I - what to do?
At this very moment a policeman complete with bike and pointy hat appeared out of nowhere; he had a face as round and as red as an apple with a superstructure to match and a VERY big grin! "May I be of assistance Sir?" said he (you can tell it was a long while ago, can't you!!), "be my guest" says the very relieved P/O.
"Nah then ..." says the erstwhile Constable in a manner that was heavy with doom as he produced his notebook and licked the end of his pencil. I didn't catch the remainder of the conversation (one sided) as the two men, not to forget the Whippets, were very firmly escorted back through the hedge.
Back in ATC I received a 'tick VG' from the boss but I was forced to come clean and report that I had had a little help from CIVPOL.
BTW, I should mention that the fine Constable saluted me on arriving and again as I left (told you it was a long time ago!) ... the first time this P/O had been saluted without a sardonic smile!
Perusing the estate from top-tower the SATCO (S/L Harry Dyer) espied a gentleman + 2 Whippets walking in a meaningful way towards the main runway from the narrow road behind the tower.
With the SATCO's encouraging words "to get that
off my airfield", P/O FZ set off in 'Rover' to shift the offending article. As I approached the man another emerged from the boundary hedge, he was huge and carrying some sort of stick ... "mm, tricky" thinks I - what to do? At this very moment a policeman complete with bike and pointy hat appeared out of nowhere; he had a face as round and as red as an apple with a superstructure to match and a VERY big grin! "May I be of assistance Sir?" said he (you can tell it was a long while ago, can't you!!), "be my guest" says the very relieved P/O.
"Nah then ..." says the erstwhile Constable in a manner that was heavy with doom as he produced his notebook and licked the end of his pencil. I didn't catch the remainder of the conversation (one sided) as the two men, not to forget the Whippets, were very firmly escorted back through the hedge.
Back in ATC I received a 'tick VG' from the boss but I was forced to come clean and report that I had had a little help from CIVPOL.
BTW, I should mention that the fine Constable saluted me on arriving and again as I left (told you it was a long time ago!) ... the first time this P/O had been saluted without a sardonic smile!
Last edited by FantomZorbin; 14th Aug 2014 at 13:08.
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ElectroVlasic,
Many thanks for the very kind words said about this Thread, which I (and many others) consider to be the "pick of the bunch" - and this is for one reason, and one reason alone.
So let us hear it for our very kind, wise and forebearing Moderators, who let us stray away, to an outrageous extent, from Thread, always providing that we come back; and that (I assume) there is at least one active contributor who still qualifies under the original Title as defined by "cliffnemo" (RIP) six years ago.
And so created this cosy "Crewroom in Cyberspace", to which all are welcome who have a relevant tale to tell or comment to make - save always that no harsh word be said.
And let's make the most of it while we still last !
Regards, Danny42C.
Many thanks for the very kind words said about this Thread, which I (and many others) consider to be the "pick of the bunch" - and this is for one reason, and one reason alone.
So let us hear it for our very kind, wise and forebearing Moderators, who let us stray away, to an outrageous extent, from Thread, always providing that we come back; and that (I assume) there is at least one active contributor who still qualifies under the original Title as defined by "cliffnemo" (RIP) six years ago.
And so created this cosy "Crewroom in Cyberspace", to which all are welcome who have a relevant tale to tell or comment to make - save always that no harsh word be said.
And let's make the most of it while we still last !
Regards, Danny42C.
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Chugalug,
"Be sure your Sins will Find you Out" seems to have applied in this case ! I suppose there was an equivalent to our "Section 40" in the Police Code under which they could get him. But what could be worse than scribbling in an office all day, anyway ?
He should have said that the witness was having a hallucination !.....D.
Fantom Zorbin,
Always glad to welcome a fellow visitor from our much maligned Branch of Air Traffic Confusion. But it must have been many, many years ago - who ever heard of a policeman appearing when he was wanted ? And the Good Old days in which deference was not a dirty word: respect was paid when respect was due. And a Pilot Officer was still somebody. (Today, I suppose most folk would take you for some weird kind of Traffic Warden, if you appeared in uniform).
Ah, those first few days when your cap was bandbox fresh ! I well remember strolling down Chowringhee, returning a salute every two paces until my arm was tired. I would never have imagined that "dumb insolence" could be conveyed in so many different ways.
Whippets are a new one on me. I have in my time been troubled by S**tehawks, goats, rats, an elephant, crows and a snoozing hare on a runway - but never a whippet (yet).....D.
Cheers, both. Danny.
"Be sure your Sins will Find you Out" seems to have applied in this case ! I suppose there was an equivalent to our "Section 40" in the Police Code under which they could get him. But what could be worse than scribbling in an office all day, anyway ?
He should have said that the witness was having a hallucination !.....D.
Fantom Zorbin,
Always glad to welcome a fellow visitor from our much maligned Branch of Air Traffic Confusion. But it must have been many, many years ago - who ever heard of a policeman appearing when he was wanted ? And the Good Old days in which deference was not a dirty word: respect was paid when respect was due. And a Pilot Officer was still somebody. (Today, I suppose most folk would take you for some weird kind of Traffic Warden, if you appeared in uniform).
Ah, those first few days when your cap was bandbox fresh ! I well remember strolling down Chowringhee, returning a salute every two paces until my arm was tired. I would never have imagined that "dumb insolence" could be conveyed in so many different ways.
Whippets are a new one on me. I have in my time been troubled by S**tehawks, goats, rats, an elephant, crows and a snoozing hare on a runway - but never a whippet (yet).....D.
Cheers, both. Danny.
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Danny
Your mention of Dishforth earlier, together with your experiences of S**tehawks, goats, rats etc
What about the Dishforth Swan? Does the following ring bells? It must have happened in your time in the Vale of York.
RAF Dishforth in the '70's. RLG for 3FTS Leeming. This particular day the weather was dog. Heavy rain, low cloudbase, the works.
Four AirTraffickers sat in Local playing uckers waiting for the stack word from Leeming. "Hey, look at that" pipes up one of the 4.
There, on finals to a very wet runway 16, was a swan. The swan drops it's undercarriage over the threshold and alights on what it thinks is a lovely stretch of river/canal/lake etc.
In a blur of white and a cloud of feathers the swan becomes worse off and ends in a crumpled heap on the runway. Apparently Cat 5.
Crash One is despatched to recover the 'remains'.
The Crash Crew collect the swan and take it back to the Crash Bay. A couple of minutes later, they report via the Hadley Box, that the swan is only stunned and recovering quite nicely on the sofa in the Crash Bay crewroom.
Amazingly the swan is quite docile once it recovers.
The problem was that swans require a stretch of water to take off, Firemen know everything. The ensuing discussion as to what to do with the bird came to the conclusion that the swan needed transport to the canal at Ripon to join it's pals and return to nature.
Clearance from the Lords and Masters at Leeming was obtained to despatch Crash Two, with swan onboard, to the canal at Ripon. So Dishforth went Black with no Crash Cover.
The uckers game resumed.
Some time later a telephone call was received from North Yorkshire Constabulary basically informing the ATCO i/c that his Firemen were now 'assisting the police with enquiries' as to the matter of 'stealing a swan'.
Apparently, Crash Two had arrived at the Ripon Canal and the crew had carried the swan down the bank to join it's pals. Job done, the crew returned to Crash Two. However, the pals were not too keen on the 'new' member and turned on it. Amidst a cacophony of honking and clouds of feathers, the Dishforth swan made a beeline for Crash Two and safety, overtaking the returning crew.
A new plan had to be hatched.
In the mean time, the obligatory 'little old lady' had looked out of her window to see 'big, burly men stealing a swan from the canal' and promptly called the Ripon Constabulary.
After much explaining by the ATCO i/c, all became clear. Swan released to river (not canal), Crash Crew released to Dishforth. Endex.
Or so was thought.
Some time later, the Daily Telegraph got hold of the story and reported it 'big time'. The headline 'Swan closes major RAF base' caused some pride in the total complement of RAF Dishforth personnel. All 12 of them (4 ATC, 2 GRSF, 5 Firemen and a Medic). RAF Dishforth, a MAJOR RAF Base.
Does it ring bells?
Rgds
Your mention of Dishforth earlier, together with your experiences of S**tehawks, goats, rats etc
What about the Dishforth Swan? Does the following ring bells? It must have happened in your time in the Vale of York.
RAF Dishforth in the '70's. RLG for 3FTS Leeming. This particular day the weather was dog. Heavy rain, low cloudbase, the works.
Four AirTraffickers sat in Local playing uckers waiting for the stack word from Leeming. "Hey, look at that" pipes up one of the 4.
There, on finals to a very wet runway 16, was a swan. The swan drops it's undercarriage over the threshold and alights on what it thinks is a lovely stretch of river/canal/lake etc.
In a blur of white and a cloud of feathers the swan becomes worse off and ends in a crumpled heap on the runway. Apparently Cat 5.
Crash One is despatched to recover the 'remains'.
The Crash Crew collect the swan and take it back to the Crash Bay. A couple of minutes later, they report via the Hadley Box, that the swan is only stunned and recovering quite nicely on the sofa in the Crash Bay crewroom.
Amazingly the swan is quite docile once it recovers.
The problem was that swans require a stretch of water to take off, Firemen know everything. The ensuing discussion as to what to do with the bird came to the conclusion that the swan needed transport to the canal at Ripon to join it's pals and return to nature.
Clearance from the Lords and Masters at Leeming was obtained to despatch Crash Two, with swan onboard, to the canal at Ripon. So Dishforth went Black with no Crash Cover.
The uckers game resumed.
Some time later a telephone call was received from North Yorkshire Constabulary basically informing the ATCO i/c that his Firemen were now 'assisting the police with enquiries' as to the matter of 'stealing a swan'.
Apparently, Crash Two had arrived at the Ripon Canal and the crew had carried the swan down the bank to join it's pals. Job done, the crew returned to Crash Two. However, the pals were not too keen on the 'new' member and turned on it. Amidst a cacophony of honking and clouds of feathers, the Dishforth swan made a beeline for Crash Two and safety, overtaking the returning crew.
A new plan had to be hatched.
In the mean time, the obligatory 'little old lady' had looked out of her window to see 'big, burly men stealing a swan from the canal' and promptly called the Ripon Constabulary.
After much explaining by the ATCO i/c, all became clear. Swan released to river (not canal), Crash Crew released to Dishforth. Endex.
Or so was thought.
Some time later, the Daily Telegraph got hold of the story and reported it 'big time'. The headline 'Swan closes major RAF base' caused some pride in the total complement of RAF Dishforth personnel. All 12 of them (4 ATC, 2 GRSF, 5 Firemen and a Medic). RAF Dishforth, a MAJOR RAF Base.
Does it ring bells?
Rgds
Last edited by taxydual; 15th Aug 2014 at 07:25. Reason: Sp
Danny,
Thank you for your welcome.
Oh how true!
When FZjr was a newly minted P/O, travelling in uniform, he was asked if he was the RAC ... to which he replied that he couldn't be as he still hadn't received his socket set!
Taxydual, Brilliant!!!
Thank you for your welcome.
Today, I suppose most folk would take you for some weird kind of Traffic Warden, if you appeared in uniform
When FZjr was a newly minted P/O, travelling in uniform, he was asked if he was the RAC ... to which he replied that he couldn't be as he still hadn't received his socket set!
Taxydual, Brilliant!!!