Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

Old 3rd May 2015, 21:44
  #6981 (permalink)  
Danny42C
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
AtomKraft,

Vijayawada is a new one on me - the similarity between "VJ" (as in "VJ Day") seems to be a remarkable coincidence, but nothing more. At first I thought it was Vizag(apatam) we were talking about, and there may have been VVs there in the early days, when 84 (?) VV Sqdn were doing anti-submarine patrols from Madras. And of course at the end VVs were doing odd jobs all over the subcontinent. But the latitudes are different, Vijay must be at least 150 mi S of Vizag. Frankly, I never heard of the place - don't think the RAF/IAF used it at all.

If you can come across an overlooked VV nestling in some 'godown' now, you'll be lucky indeed. So lucky that you should have no trouble in pinpointing that hoard of buried Spitfires in Burma about which there was so much excitement a while back.

10/10 for maths !

Danny.
 
Old 3rd May 2015, 23:52
  #6982 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: South of the M4
Posts: 1,637
Received 13 Likes on 5 Posts
FANTOME


If any PPRuNer can find an obit for Dr Matthew Banks, an Australian plastic surgeon who worked with Sir Archibald MacIndoe, attained in the War his RAF Wings, and later flew his Miles Gemini far and wide throughout Europe and the Middle East, working as a plastic surgeon for the rich and notable, I'd be most interested to read a copy.
Can't find an obit, but he is quite possibly the same chap who was involved in litigation way back in 1960 as below:


QUEEN’S BENCH DIVISION April 8th 1960
PLASTIC SURGERY
CORDER v. BANKS Before Mr. JUSTICE MCNAIR
His LORDSHIP, in a reserved judgment, awarded 1408 damages (including eight guineas special damages) to Mrs. Stella Rachel Gresham (formerly Miss Corder) of Bloomsbury Street, W.C, in this action in which she claimed damages against Mr. James Matthew Banks, plastic surgeon, carrying on practice at Harley Street, W.1, in respect of a facial disfigurement which she alleged was due to his negligent treatment
Mr. F. W. Beney, Q.C., and Mr. Arthur Mildon appeared for the plaintiff; Mr. Martin Jukes, Q.C. and Mr. Peter Webster for the defendant.

Judgment
Mr Justice McNair said that in 1952 the plaintiff was a single woman, aged 29, working as a typist. She was distressed at what she retarded as a disfiguring condition below her eyes, and on December 8 she attended Mr. Banks. He was a well-qualified plastic surgeon, who had facilities for seeing patients in consulting rooms in Harley Street, which be shared with another plastic surgeon, and be had the use of a secretary whom he shared with the other surgeon, and who was available to him during her normal hours of attendance from 10 a.m. to 5.30 p.m. from Monday to Friday. At this address there was also a resident janitor and his wife.
His Lordship accepted that Mr. Banks bad probably first told the plaintiff that his fee for performing an operation would be 50 guineas, with further nursing home charges, but, on being told that she could not afford such fees, that he had agreed to do the operation for a fee of 10 guineas inclusive on the basis that it would be done under a local anaesthetic and that the plaintiff would be an out-patient.
His Lordship found that no charge of professional negligence could be made against Mr. Banks solely on the ground that he did not insist on retaining Mrs. Gresham in a nursing home after the operation, although it was clear that this course involved some increased risk.
The purpose of the operation was to remove excess fat from beneath both eyelids. No criticism was directed to Mr. Banks’ technique for this operation. It was clear that the first 48 hours after the operation were of crucial importance as during that period bleeding might occur and, if it was not attended to properly, irreversible damage might result. It was on the failure of Mr. Banks to carry out sufficient aftercare that the plaintiff's case rested.

TELEPHONE NOT COVERED
His Lordship accepted the view that if a patient was operated on and allowed to go home proper directions should be given by the surgeon to the patient (as had been done in this ease) and that the surgeon himself, or a properly qualified substitute, should be available and accessible to deal with any untoward development until his next appointment to see the patient If a surgeon who adopted the course of letting a patient go home was relying on a telephone message from the patient to deal with an unexpected emergency which might arise, it was essential that the telephone should be adequately covered in the sense that messages would be received and transmitted to the surgeon. This was not done in this ease.
His Lordship was satisfied that on the first day after this operation there was substantial bleeding from the stitches, which continued intermittently for a day or so. that the prudent surgical practice required that such bleeding should be dealt with promptly by a skilled surgeon (the crucial period being the first 48 hours), that proper notification of such bleeding was sent to the address given but not received by Mr. Banks due to his failure to keep his telephone adequately covered or the failure of those for whom he was responsible to inform him of the message. That failure amounted to professional negligence.
His Lordship had reached the conclusion that the condition from which the plaintiff was now suffering was directly caused by the failure to deal with the initial bleeding within the first 48 hours, and accordingly the defendant was liable. On the question of damages, there was no impairment of function, no marked pain and suffering (though much mental anguish) and no loss of earning power. But the plaintiff suffered and had suffered for the past eight years from a definite and marked facial disfigurement such as would be a very real source of embarrassment and distress to any lady of her age.
His Lordship would assess the general damages at 1,500.
Solicitors.—Messrs. Kenneth Brown Baker, Baker: Messrs. Hempsons.
Warmtoast is offline  
Old 4th May 2015, 06:35
  #6983 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Planet Claire
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Danny.
Thanks for your reply re Vijayawada. It was definately a military airfield during the war, and an ex IAF chap I flew with told me that the VVs were operated from here by the IAF, RIAF then I guess?
I think the place was known then as Gannavaram- in fact it still is.

Anyway, if I stagger across a VV in the underbrush, and don't get my ass bitten by a snake, I'll drop you a line.
AtomKraft is offline  
Old 4th May 2015, 08:17
  #6984 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: THE BLUEBIRD CAFE
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Thank you WT . .. . that's our man for sure. Poor Mrs Gresham. Must be hard though to make a judgement without a series of before and after photographs, such as fill the yellow pages today with page after page of boobs and faces and other regions before and after cosmetic surgery. " Ah Mrs Wong, you have Fazackerly Syndrome. Your face fazackerly like your . . . ."

Wondering WT whether there is a record of any proceeding against James Matthew Banks for the illegal importation of gold bricks. His Miles Gemini on one occasion was searched by customs. They found the gold hidden in the upholstery. It was Matt Banks remuneration for attending to the needs of a wife of the Aga Khan.

There is probably an obit somewhere in one of the specialist journals, if such existed for a society of plastic surgeons.
Fantome is offline  
Old 4th May 2015, 10:10
  #6985 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: South of the M4
Posts: 1,637
Received 13 Likes on 5 Posts
Fantome


You're in luck. A couple of press cuttings regarding Mr Banks' smuggling activities from 1 July 1953 and 27 July 1953 respectively.








The Recorder's name in second cutting "Mr Blanco White" - you'd be laughed at if you tried to make it up!
Warmtoast is offline  
Old 4th May 2015, 12:08
  #6986 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: THE BLUEBIRD CAFE
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Thanks again WT. Here is a post I made on the Aviation Forum website five years ago. Stlil no response regarding John Pimlott.

The late James Matthew Banks was an Australian, a pilot and plastic surgeon who trained under MacIndoe. Alan Mitchell, a biographer of Neville Duke, wrote a biography, 'No Man Despairs', about Banks, which came out about 1960. Banks, based in London, flew his Gemini to various European countries to operate on wealthy patients. One time he was apprehended by British customs, as there were hidden, some gold ingots in his Gemini. I would appreciate any reference to a published obituary of Banks and any court record of his alleged offence. I do not know his date of death. Before he sailed to England at the outbreak of the Second World War, Banks had been Charles Kingsford Smith's doctor and close associate. There is mention of this in Ian Mackersey's biography of Smithy.

Another man I would appreciate any particulars about was the late S/L John Austen Pimlott who flew pre-war with 601 County of London Squadron and served throughout the Second World War in the RAF. After the war he and his family migrated to South Africa where he was involved with mohair textiles. They moved to Australia in 1960 where he also worked in textiles. He flew some 83 types in the war, having been attached for a period to a maintenance unit at Boscombe Down. He said to me when I met him in Canberra in 1960 that he flew in the Battle of Britain, but I have been unable to date to find any reference to Pimlott anywhere.
Fantome is offline  
Old 4th May 2015, 16:01
  #6987 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ontario Canada
Age: 69
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It seems government agencies deal with things like this is mysterious ways. Dad did something ( he would never say what) but it did involve, as he put it, ' putting on yer finest bib and tucker for an audience with the Old Man' Clearly it wasn,t a capitol offence as he was told there was a raid on that night and will deal with it when he returns-but that was the raid they were shot down.
After the war, someone wisely at the time decided, after being shot down ( and knowing 3 of his crewmates perished in the crash-rear gunner trapped in the turret, mid upper went back to help and Skipper remained at controls) being POW for 13 months, a forced march in the middle of winter 1945, and being mistaken at the town of Griesse (sp) for a column of German soldiers and shot up by a flight of RAF Typhoons, that perhaps he had served his sentence for the minor misdeed, and it never went further. In fact, he was given an honourable discharge as Pilot Officer in 1946.
He rejoined the RCAF about 11 years later,not as P O but as AC2-at that time nothing was mentioned about this misdeed. Fast forward to his retirement in 1973, and a shiny new Career Officer noticed on his file that charges were still shown as pending from 1944! Justice must be served for he paraded dad to the CO ( also a WW2 vet and did (ahem!) know of Dad, but in a good way. The CO listened, then quietly told the Career Officer that unless he wanted to be transferred off the base by 2PM, to be Supply Officer in charge of toilet paper inventory at CFS Alert ( Canada,s most northern base, only several hundred miles from the North Pole) he might wish to reconsider proceeding. Wisely, he did, but not before earning himself the unwanted duty of OOD for 6 weekends in a row-to steep himself in military traditions as the CO put it.
jeffb is offline  
Old 4th May 2015, 17:47
  #6988 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: THE BLUEBIRD CAFE
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
The canny CO in his wisdom and compassion dealt effectively with the problem and the twit. He was the calibre of man that helped the military to run smoothly and efficiently . Jeff, did you ever try to find the record in the archives of what misdemeanor your old man is supposed to have committed.?

It may have been something as trivial as being AWOL for a night
Or seducing or being seduced by the CO's wife, sister or driver.
Fantome is offline  
Old 4th May 2015, 21:37
  #6989 (permalink)  
Danny42C
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
AtomKraft,

Still puzzled. Although I had no recollection of the East coast airfields (except Cholaveram, where I spent a few weeks on a Calibration Flight in early '45), the names of all the most used wartime airfields would frequently crop up in conversation, and in 3 years out there I never remember hearing a Vijayawada spoken of. Perhaps it was used under another name then. On the other hand, "Vizag" was well known (I believe it was a stop-over on the "South Mail" regular route (Calcutta-Madras) by the Daks.

Having said that, "Cannanore" (where I spent my last year) would receive blank looks everywhere.

Watch out for the krait ! Take Riki-Tikki-Tavi with you.

Danny.
 
Old 5th May 2015, 02:11
  #6990 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Planet Claire
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Danny.
Yep, as I mentioned, it was known as Gannavaram before it became Vijayawada. But my Indian friend may just have been mistaken about the Vultees.
We still operate into Visag though. It's a joint mil/ civ airport now.
Not seen a Krait yet, but our airfield is certainly home to Cobras as my chum found a big one sleeping between the main wheels on his walk around. He thought it prudent to go absolutely nowhere near it.
AtomKraft is offline  
Old 5th May 2015, 02:27
  #6991 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: THE BLUEBIRD CAFE
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
ahhhh . .. . Rikki-Tikki-Tavi . . a masterpiece











THE KIDS LOVED THIS ONE TOO DANNY -





  1.  
    1.  
Fantome is offline  
Old 6th May 2015, 10:33
  #6992 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ontario Canada
Age: 69
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Fantome:
No I haven't gotten Dad,s service records, so I have, in the absence of direct conversations with Dad I have been told stories told to me secondhand from friends and family.
In this instance, supposedly Dad and the nav went to the local pub; on the way back to base they encountered a cow in a field they were using as a shortcut, and came up with a plan to ride it rather than walk. They each tried it without a great deal of success, and a plan was hatched to sneak it on the base and place it in another crew,s hut. Apparently, wherever they placed it, the cow let out a mighty bellow, then made a mess of the place. It would seem the Powers that Be could have been less than amused.
I have also been told that Dad was the last person to exit their blazing Lancaster. The nav had assisted either the flight engineer or wireless op ( incapacitated presumably by lack of oxygen) to the nose escape hatch, where he held onto the fellow,s parachute ring and tossed him out. Dad once speculated to me he often wondered if he could have done more to help free the trapped gunner; he may have been helping and perhaps that is why he was the last one out. In any event, the official records state the aircraft settled into a long glide before crashing; however Dad mentioned that he could see the aircraft on fire as he descended, and it blew up shortly after he bailed out. I have not found out if the aircraft was indeed more or less intact when it crashed.
The final story came from one of his closest friends, where Dad had told him how him, and a US airman, were the object of German civilian rage. They were being escorted to a POW camp, either to the interrogation camp at Frankfurt, or, more likely, to the final camp at Luft 6. While enroute my train, at some city, the air raid sirens went off. It was procedure for everyone to evacuate the train and train station, which they did. A few blocks away they attracted a following of irate civilians, who forced them into a bombed out cellar, and had Dad hold a crude sign saying 'Terrorflieger', the US airman sign was ' Chicago Gangster' The guard didn,t do much to stop them-he has lost his entire extended family in a raid a few days before and had been denied compassionate leave in order to escort the airmen. They were pelted with abuse, sticks, debris, before the all clear sounded and the guard returned them to the train. It is believed this was the cause of Dad temporarily losing his vision 30 years later in 1974.In any event, his vision returned after about 6 weeks, and was excellent up to his passing.
jeffb is offline  
Old 6th May 2015, 16:50
  #6993 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: THE BLUEBIRD CAFE
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
no doubt about it . . . . the savagery of the populace who have been at the receiving end of bombs , rockets or straffing.

FLIGHT PATH TO MURDER (Death of a Pilot Officer) by Steve Darlow (2009) is the story of Bill Maloney, Tempest pilot who in 1944 force -landed well behind the lines. He survived that, but minutes later his life was brutally ended.

Last month an Australian tail gunner who survived a long drop sans chute one night over Germany died in the Victorian town of Tatura, where he lived. This info was imparted by a fellow passenger on a country bus service as we passed through Tatura. Unfortunately, did not get the name of the deceased, but his story has been told on and off over the years. He fell into fir trees deep in snow.

Last edited by Fantome; 6th May 2015 at 17:02.
Fantome is offline  
Old 6th May 2015, 19:09
  #6994 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Don't know about an Australian tail gunner but F/Sgt Nicholas Alkemade was a British RAF rear gunner who in 1944 survived a fall from 18000 ft without a parachute.

Last edited by olympus; 8th May 2015 at 12:08. Reason: more detail
olympus is offline  
Old 7th May 2015, 10:31
  #6995 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: North Kent, UK.
Posts: 370
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Danny. In case you missed this today.
BBC Radio 5 live - In Short, 92-year-old World War Two veteran flies Spitfire again
mmitch.
mmitch is offline  
Old 7th May 2015, 19:57
  #6996 (permalink)  
Danny42C
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Been indisposed for a few days, so:

Fantome,
Lovely picture ! The only animal who can beat a King Cobra to the draw. Said the birds:"who hath been our saviour ? - let us know his name !
"It is Rikki-Tikki-Tavi with the eyes of flame !"
Don't know "Tembo" (after my time, I think !)

jeffb,
Was a story that, lost in fog over the UK with fuel short, a Wellington crew decided to abandon ship. Seems that nobody told the rear gunner - or he missed the order on intercom - the aircraft descended slowly until it made a rather bumpy belly landing in a field not far from base. He (unharmed) expressed his indignation on intercom, only to find he was on his own !
The others landed far back, and had a long and arduous trek home (serves 'em right !)
Another tale was of a bomber crew who baled out one night over Gemany, but landed apart. Pilot dumped his parachute and started to walk into a nearby town to give himself up. Found his Nav hanging from the first lamp post.

Olympus,
Was he by any chance the chap who crashed through a German convent roof and landed on a (luckily unoccupied) nun's bed ?

mmitch,
Missed it ! Must try on iplayer. (Lucky devil - hope he wasn't solo !)

Thanks to you all, Danny.

Last edited by Danny42C; 7th May 2015 at 20:00. Reason: Spelling
 
Old 7th May 2015, 20:59
  #6997 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: With Wonko, outside the Asylum.
Age: 56
Posts: 489
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
hope he wasn't solo !
No, she wasn't.
TheiC is offline  
Old 8th May 2015, 00:23
  #6998 (permalink)  
Danny42C
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
7,000 Posts coming up any moment ! Congratulations to this, the best and most successful of all Military Aviation/Aircrew Threads. Seven years old next month, with the maximum number of current Posts (if you rule out Cap Com, which really is in a different class of its own). And still going strong !

Roll on 8,000.

D.
 
Old 9th May 2015, 06:56
  #6999 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: THE BLUEBIRD CAFE
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
yes and when it hits ten grand Danny the slot will be reserved for
you and a bronze plaque inscribed to record a few
salient points relating to achievements, longevity
and just the right amount of levity to counter gravity
Fantome is offline  
Old 9th May 2015, 17:02
  #7000 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Co. Down
Age: 82
Posts: 817
Received 220 Likes on 65 Posts
May I post 6999 and invite Danny to say something - anything - and claim the 7k. Sorry to hear you were down on power, Danny, and hope you are better soon
Geriaviator is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.