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Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

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Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II

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Old 14th May 2015, 16:51
  #7021 (permalink)  
Danny42C
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Fantome,

Your #2010 refers,

According to Ogden Nash (?): "The only way to fight a woman is with your hat - grab it and run !"

D.
 
Old 14th May 2015, 18:21
  #7022 (permalink)  
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Warmtoast,

Your #7017: "I can't recall we ever got a satisfactory explanation of the error!"

I can give one! It's happened before and it'll happen again ("Fog in the Cockpit"). It happened to me (cf my #3753 p.188).

Fantom Zorbin,

Your #7019: " tricky to sort out when the pilot only spoke Italian!! - but there were ways and means!"

Such as a red Verey straight at him from close range ?

Danny.
 
Old 14th May 2015, 22:21
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ways and means? The late Ted Sly (92 East India SQN with N Duke) used to tell one about the captured Itie pilot who was not at all forthcoming. Some impatient stroppy intelligence wallah was about to get the rubber hose out when Ted and Neville walked into the tent and gave the IO a piece of their minds. They then took the prisoner to the mess tent for a drop of 'liberated' chianti.
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Old 15th May 2015, 17:44
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Exclamation Puddlejumper alert: air experience warning

Congratulations on post #7000, Danny, and please be assured that every reader of this wonderful and addictive thread is delighted to see you steering our (un)steady course at 93 not out!

Someone mentioned puddlejumpers a page or two back so I thought it's time to send the crew room to sleep with yet another account. My own puddle was called the Irish Sea. Would you like to hear about one memorable journey?
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Old 15th May 2015, 22:12
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I have not seen this mentioned in these hallowed portals.
The Story of the Swift Current Airport
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Old 15th May 2015, 22:38
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Ricardian,

What a stunning vid you post. And certainly very appropriate to the tenor of this thread. I wonder if Roy Spence is still around to share his experience with us ? Yet again we see how important our Commonwealth was in dire times. Anyone else have memories of Canadian training in those days ?

Smudge
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Old 16th May 2015, 00:38
  #7027 (permalink)  
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Fantome,

There have been many tales about isolated cases in WWII of chivalrous treatment of a captured enemy. (I'm sure Ted and Neville got far more out of their "Itie" with a few glasses of Chianti than the I.O. would have done with his rubber hose. More flies are caught with honey than with vinegar!

Another story I heard (source unknown) related to a group of aircrew prisoners who had the misfortune to fall into the hands of a Gestapo unit. Fortunately for them this became known to a nearby Luftwaffe squadron. Well knowing what treatment our chaps were likely to receive from their captors, the officers of the squadron went down in a body after them, and forced the Gestapo at gunpoint to hand them over. Then they took them back to their Mess, gave them a good meal, and finally made sure that they were taken to the nearest British POW Camp....D.

Geriaviator,

Thank you ! As for this "wonderful and addictive Thread"; its "unsteady course" is one of its main charms (you never know coming what's coming up next!)

Of course we want to hear about your "memorable journey" (although the Irish Sea is rather a large "puddle"). Adventures come in all sizes (of aircraft). Get on the keyboard - this is what a Forum's for....D.

ricardian and Smudge,

A quick summary of WWII life on a typical Canadian British Flying School (one among many). The six BFTS in the US would be very similar, and in most cases they were built near a sizeable town, with all the advantages that brought.

The "Arnold" Schools in the US were all US Army Air Corps bases, many "out in the Sticks". Moreover, the training was in three two-month stages, each at a different base. This made any local friendships difficult, and in places like Carlstrom and Craig Fields, you were so far out that it was impossible.

The BFTS, on the other hand, did all their six months in one place, and (as mentioned above), they were all near civilisation. (Smudge, harrym has given a full account of his RCAF training on this Thread, finishing about a month ago).....D.

Cheers to all, Danny.
 
Old 16th May 2015, 02:35
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This came on the teeve last night. Can't say it gave rise to wet dreams.
But it is very very good if you like a good murder, and the near-authentic replication of an RAAF base in 1929. (They should have got hold of a DH60 instead of the DH82 that's in it.) The script writer deserves a big hand for making the period pieces so plausible. Even if the storyline is a huge drawing of the longbow.

Ace crime solver, Miss Fisher , has a big following on ABC TV. She is smart and sassy and absol-bloody-lutely gorgeous. (Her brother, in real life, is a highly skilled wood worker in Hobart. Manys the double malt we have sunk together. Once we took a 172 to Flinders Island. But that's another story.)

Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries - Series 3 Ep 2 Murder And The Maiden : ABC iview
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Old 16th May 2015, 13:46
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The day a chill finger tapped my shoulder ...

Wouldn't it be great to have an instrument rating, I used to think. Such as the week we spent in Denham north of London waiting for the weather to clear, or the four extra days on a rainswept Guernsey holiday before we could get VFR clearance out of the zone, or the Jersey holiday we didn't get at all, though that week of low cloud and heavy rain wasn't such a loss.

Many years ago I acquired a Piper Arrow, which is basically a Cherokee GT with retractable gear and constant speed prop. It took quite some time to collect enough moolah to fit the necessary avionics, then even more to train at Oxford and at last attain the coveted IR. Travel became instantly easy, file your flight plan, copy your clearance, climb into the airways and do as you're told. No more fumbling about beneath lowering clouds peering for pinpoints in the smoke and haze, no more IMC delays or cancelled summer holidays, but truth to tell airways flight proved to be a little boring. Except once.

One January day I looked forward to a business trip from Belfast to Birmingham. Met promised me clear departure conditions with cloud increasing across the Irish Sea, becoming a continuous layer 3000ft – FL060, with freezing level 2,500ft. Of course I had learned all about icing on my IR course, and knew it was a Very Bad Thing. But once past the Isle of Man there was nothing over 300ft between me and Birmingham, so I reasoned that I could descend below freezing level if I had to. What could possibly go wrong?
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Old 16th May 2015, 16:15
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go wrong. go wrong... go wrong . . . . . well sounds like you picked up a bag going into Birmingham. Sticking the neck out when you'd rather have plain sailing does not compare with the old ways of cloud seeding, when you'd fly on and on in stratus at minus ten, the boots unable to have any effect on the fast build up of rime. Standard way round it was to wait till the first hint of a shudder, then switch off the burners and go down to get rid of the ice. Needless to say, this was not the practice when over terrain with lowest safes that would compromise a return intact to base.

Sometimes wondered what damage a ten foot long great thick javelin of an ice slice would inflict, if by the remotest chance some farm house or wandering stockman happened to cop the spear.
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Old 16th May 2015, 17:17
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Swift Current

Many thanks Ricardian for that Swift Current video clip, it made an interesting comparison to my memories of the place as described in #5586 et seq. It would seem that Roy Spence was a staff member rather than a student, I hope he was not affronted by the commentator referring to cadets (and by implication all other RAF personnel) as 'soldiers' !
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Old 16th May 2015, 17:17
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Alas Fantome my Paro had/has neither boots nor electric prop pads, as you'll see from tomorrow's thrilling instalment. At least it was most thrilling for me at the time ...

I think the good folk around Heathrow and Gatwick can tell you about falling ice, especially when it comes through their roofs. And then there's the yellow-brown ice chunks which descend from the outlet of certain holding tanks in the rear of the aircraft
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Old 16th May 2015, 17:22
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Geriaviator,

".... But once past the Isle of Man there was nothing over 300ft between me and Birmingham...."

But Snowdonia is not all that far away to the West !

Fantome,

Was an apocryphal tale of the time when waste water from the galley and toilets was vented to atmosphere. Airliner in freezing conditions accumulates quite a slab below. On long finals to LHR in warmer air, this unpleasant iced lollie unsticks, goes down through a roof somewhere in W. London, and lands on (nicely made) bed.

Probably just a tale,

Danny.

EDIT: Apparently the folk were out at work, so the stuff had all melted when they got in that evening. D.

Last edited by Danny42C; 16th May 2015 at 17:47. Reason: Addn.
 
Old 16th May 2015, 18:06
  #7034 (permalink)  
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pzu,

Have you by any chance succeeded in contacting the Sgt A/G Ken Todd of whom you spoke? If so, and even if we cannot persuade him to come on here or tell his story (via a relative or friend if he is not yet a "silver-surfer"), could you ask him just one question for me. Did the Wellingtons he knew have a door on the port side between trailing edge and tail ?

Here is the problem:

In my P.325 #6489 of 19.11.14.(re "Wimpeys"), I said: "But the problem with opening a can of worms is that there are an awful lot of worms in it". So here's another !

With the recent resurgence of interest in the "Wimpey", I have examined a number of photographs and diagrams on various sites, but have never found one yet which shows any trace of a rear crew door on the port side between trailing edge and tail. For I clearly remember this door, as I was one of the little party who found welcome shelter from the rain on a night Station Defence Excercise at Hawarden in summer '42 (cf my P.123 #2460) - and have not dreamt it - I was rather puzzled. (And rather surprised no one has picked me up on this point).

Some rooting around turned up a number of sites, but none was helpful. And then, on "Target for Tonight", (cf link from Petet #6487), at 19.16 is a shot of the crew climbing aboard. Closer to camera are the "front end" people going up the nose ladder - but slightly further away - one other (wearing flying boots - rear gunner, I suppose) plus an airman, clearly aiming down the port side. There must be a door down there !

On 9th May, BBC2 (1000 - 1100) repeated "Wellington". Recorded it and watched it through. There were several tantalising glimpses of what might have been a door on the port side. I said then: "I'll run through the recording sometime in the next few days, as I can pause that at any point and check back. Will report findings". Now I've done that, and there are a number of "possibles", but all turn out to be optical illusions when you see the "still".

Finally, I came across a video of the rebuilding of the Wellington 1A fished up from Loch Ness. A clear view of the port side of the completed job shows no door. So ???

One last possibility: (Wiki): "Vickers Wellington":

"Wellington C Mark XV
Service conversions of the Wellington Mark IA into unarmed transport aircraft; able to carry up to 18 troops".

"Wellington C Mark XVI
Service conversions of the Wellington Mark IC into unarmed transport aircraft; able to carry up to 18 troops".

Surely they would not load/unload 18 troops through the nose hatch/ladder? (In any case, "mine" had nose and tail turrets, it wasn't "unarmed"). Could it have been a Mk.XV?

And this begs another question: why do this at all when there were plenty of L/Lease Daks around ?

You see why I want a Wellington expert, preferably an A.G. !

Danny.
 
Old 16th May 2015, 22:17
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Sorry Danny unable to throw any light on the quandary.

Edward Seago, the artist, he used light always to good effect
Anyone who has not read his wartime story HIGH ENDEAVOUR should get hold of a copy. It is the story of Jimmy, from a circus family, who against all odds made it into the RAF and trained to be a fighter pilot. Never managed to find out whether Seago based his story on fact or fiction.

The book has some lovely illustrations, including -




Where I grew up in Walker Street, North Sydney, there lived across the road one Bill Baggie (sp?) who was an accountant. He flew Wimpies during the war. He regaled my dad one night , till they drained the whiskey bottle, with his account of his war. Bill was shot down and made prisoner. Stalagluft 111 maybe. His capture was dramatic as he came within an ace of being run through by the farmer who first bailed him up, intent on using his pitchfork to dispatch Bill. All else I can remember was that he married an English girl during the war. She was Stella. Very pale and slight and terribly English. They had a boy and a girl. The children thought the epitome of a treat was bread and butter smothered with hundreds and thousands.

Did not the Dutch and the Russkies put their DC-3 main door on the right side for a particular reason?

Last edited by Fantome; 16th May 2015 at 23:07.
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Old 17th May 2015, 11:10
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Danny, I thumbed through my recent photos of the 'Brooklands Wellington'
without definite proof. There is a 'walkthrough' of a Wellington constructed of unusable structure of the recovery and the exit door is definitely port side.
I hope you find some comfort from this!
mmitch.
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Old 17th May 2015, 13:34
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Continued from #7028 above:

The Paro whistled off the ground into the clear cold air, Aldergrove passed my airways clearance as soon as I requested it, and within a few minutes I was cruising the airway at 140kt on my assigned FL070. As the Isle of Man passed under the port wing, snow-capped Snowdonia was far to the right, and over the Wallasey VOR 50 miles ahead I could see the forecast layer of cloud reflecting the sunrise. This was the life, I thought, 160mph at 8gph, that's 20mpg giving a range of 800 miles in still air.

After Wallasey London passed me to Birmingham, who cleared my descent first to FL050, then to 4000ft. Easing back from the Arrow's 24/24 cruise setting, I said farewell to the sunshine and descended into the thick grey layer of cloud. I had noticed a line of white rime along the wing leading edges just as I heard a departing air taxi report icing during his climb out of Birmingham, but even this didn't ring my warning bell.

The Arrow has a thermometer probe projecting like a finger from the top of the windscreen. From the corner of my eye I noticed something white. That's funny, I thought, then realised that the probe had rapidly become a half-inch cylinder of ice, ice which was also forming along the wings. Without warning my poor Arrow was violently shaken by a giant hand as unbalanced ice formed on the airscrew, while within a few minutes the thermometer probe became a fist-size chunk of ice.

Did I imagine the controls were becoming a little sloppy, and was that an airflow buffet amid the frightening shaking? I hardly dared to look back at the wings, their airfoil profile being ruined by a layer of ice, or to think of what could be happening to the stabilator which I had been warned would ice up even faster than the wing. Besides it hangs on two 10mm bolts, less than the thickness of one's little finger. Which, as it happens, was the thickness of the front engine mounting tubes now carrying that unbalanced and furiously vibrating prop as well as the engine ...
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Old 17th May 2015, 15:09
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Danny - it gets more curious.
The book "Wellington the geodetic giant " by Martin Bowman, contains a fair number of photos and there's no sign of a door on the port side in any of the varied marks. I googled " Wellington bomber cutaway" and can see no door in the drawings shown.
A friend of mine who flew, as an ATC cadet, in OTU Wellingtons, can't recall a door in the position you mention - he says that's where the cadet passengers used to sit.
I'm hoping to get to Cosford next Sunday. The engineering hangar contains a Wellington. Whilst there's no access to it other than on fixed open days, I might learn something if I talk to the right person.
It's conceivable that the transport version had that door. I haven't managed to find a photo. of that.
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Old 17th May 2015, 15:33
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Geriaviator,

Now that's the stuff we want here! ("...whistled off the ground into the clear cold air..."). A Foeman worthy of my Steel, forsooth ! (except that you're not my Foeman, but a friend and colleague, a full member of that Ancient and Honourable Company of Throttle-Benders which rightly (as TWLOTA*) takes precedence on this superb Thread.

Now how will Pauline escape this latest Peril** ? We hasten to our Newsagents to book the next issue.

* (For new readers): "Twin Winged Lords of the Air"
** This dates me!

Cheers, Danny.
 
Old 17th May 2015, 15:57
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My grandfather was an RAF metalworker. He received a posting to one of the training schools in Canada, but did not want to go. On his final night shift, another airman (same trade) came dashing up and begged to take over the posting. He had got a girl into trouble and needed as much distance as possible from her angry father. Next morning, the escapee was on the boat train to Liverpool!
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