Gaining An R.A.F Pilots Brevet In WW II
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Guinea Pig Survivors
My father was a staff pilot at Ringway at the Parachute Training School in 1943. His flight commander was a South African called Godfrey Edwards.
Godfrey had survived a crash whilst flying a Hamden at Upper Heyford earlier in the war and had been badly burnt. He was one of McIndoe's early patients and managed to return to flying though heavily scarred about the face, and hands. By sheer co-incidence my father landed at Upper Heyford the day after Godfrey's crash and saw the wrecked a/c and heard that the pilot had been badly burned and that although alive he was not expected to live. This was a quite common experience and as my father was a Stirling pilot and didn't known any Hamden mates he wasn't particularly bothered to know the pilot's name.
Roll the clock forward to September 1943 and my father is on a train from London up to Manchester to go to PTS as a staff pilot with a friend, F/O Bill Quayle, who has also been posted to Ringway when they see a badly burnt RAF officer in his greatcoat - no wings on his uniform visible. Between them they can't say anything than speculate on how he had been burned and exchange words to the effect, poor bugger, he can't have much to live for now........
The next day Bill and my father report for duty and on the other side of the desk is the same officer they saw at Euston the day before. Later my father became good friends with Godfrey and his wife and visited them in South Africa in the 1960's and 70's. Godfrey's scars were not pretty to look at and he remained scarred all his life but he never felt sorry about himself and carried on as though he was of completely normal appearance. My father had the utmost respect for Godfrey as a pilot, flight commander and mentor.
A trivial story perhaps, but true and so typical of a whole generation of which Danny is one.
MB
Godfrey had survived a crash whilst flying a Hamden at Upper Heyford earlier in the war and had been badly burnt. He was one of McIndoe's early patients and managed to return to flying though heavily scarred about the face, and hands. By sheer co-incidence my father landed at Upper Heyford the day after Godfrey's crash and saw the wrecked a/c and heard that the pilot had been badly burned and that although alive he was not expected to live. This was a quite common experience and as my father was a Stirling pilot and didn't known any Hamden mates he wasn't particularly bothered to know the pilot's name.
Roll the clock forward to September 1943 and my father is on a train from London up to Manchester to go to PTS as a staff pilot with a friend, F/O Bill Quayle, who has also been posted to Ringway when they see a badly burnt RAF officer in his greatcoat - no wings on his uniform visible. Between them they can't say anything than speculate on how he had been burned and exchange words to the effect, poor bugger, he can't have much to live for now........
The next day Bill and my father report for duty and on the other side of the desk is the same officer they saw at Euston the day before. Later my father became good friends with Godfrey and his wife and visited them in South Africa in the 1960's and 70's. Godfrey's scars were not pretty to look at and he remained scarred all his life but he never felt sorry about himself and carried on as though he was of completely normal appearance. My father had the utmost respect for Godfrey as a pilot, flight commander and mentor.
A trivial story perhaps, but true and so typical of a whole generation of which Danny is one.
MB
Last edited by Madbob; 4th Jul 2015 at 07:26. Reason: correct typo mistake
Danny you must be very proud of Mary having had a noble career, we have not heard much about her between 'pram and becoming your computer guru! - Pom Pax
Hear! Hear!
He demanded to have the first choice of the most attractive nurses for his wards. - Danny
And presumably a proud dad is too modest to mention that this excellent tradition continued at QVH.....
Jack
PS Danny - I've been in the States for a while so I hoping that you picked up the email I sent the same day re the Barracuda song you wanted
Hear! Hear!
He demanded to have the first choice of the most attractive nurses for his wards. - Danny
And presumably a proud dad is too modest to mention that this excellent tradition continued at QVH.....
Jack
PS Danny - I've been in the States for a while so I hoping that you picked up the email I sent the same day re the Barracuda song you wanted
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Madbob
You can't choose your generation ! (we were lucky !).....D.
Pom Pax and Jack (your #7182),
Right on all counts !
Comms log (all times GMT):
16 Jun PM (2) recd 1032 and 1035......replied PM 16 Jun 1835.
email recd 17 Jun 0448.......replied email 20 Jun 0011.
Does it check out ?
Danny.
You can't choose your generation ! (we were lucky !).....D.
Pom Pax and Jack (your #7182),
Right on all counts !
Comms log (all times GMT):
16 Jun PM (2) recd 1032 and 1035......replied PM 16 Jun 1835.
email recd 17 Jun 0448.......replied email 20 Jun 0011.
Does it check out ?
Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 3rd Jul 2015 at 21:30. Reason: Addns.
Good evening Danny
That's fine - all good except I did not receive your message of 200011 June 15, possibly because I was lurking in Rhode Island, so don't worry.
All the best
Jack
That's fine - all good except I did not receive your message of 200011 June 15, possibly because I was lurking in Rhode Island, so don't worry.
All the best
Jack
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De haut en bas !
ancientaviator62,
Reverting to your #7168 of 27th June,
"I swear that he was about to contradict me ! Then with a curt 'get out' I was dismissed. I never did get an ACR debrief nor did Sgt X".
And no apology? That's no way to treat an SNCO ! Unfortunately there are such Officers, of whom it can justly be said (as in one well known case): "The man should never have been commissioned - only it didn't show until he reached Group Captain !"
I did a year as an airman and a year as a Sergeant, and met (only a few) such people.
Danny.
Reverting to your #7168 of 27th June,
"I swear that he was about to contradict me ! Then with a curt 'get out' I was dismissed. I never did get an ACR debrief nor did Sgt X".
And no apology? That's no way to treat an SNCO ! Unfortunately there are such Officers, of whom it can justly be said (as in one well known case): "The man should never have been commissioned - only it didn't show until he reached Group Captain !"
I did a year as an airman and a year as a Sergeant, and met (only a few) such people.
Danny.
Danny,
I suspect the word apology was not part of this 'gentleman's vocabulary. Fortunately the squadron disbanded not long after and I went off to the the Hercules OCU. It did not do me any harm as I was a MACR at the
age of 31, then commissioned and retired as a Spec Aircrew S/L.
I suspect the word apology was not part of this 'gentleman's vocabulary. Fortunately the squadron disbanded not long after and I went off to the the Hercules OCU. It did not do me any harm as I was a MACR at the
age of 31, then commissioned and retired as a Spec Aircrew S/L.
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A Tale from the Past.
Geriaviator,
Your #7145: ".....I never "borrowed" fuel from Aunty Betty again during my career...."
Brought to mind a story I Posted long ago on this Thread (and PPRuNE now cannot trace, so I'll have to put it again) on the misuse of 100 octane in wartime.
But Wiki got it for me:
"The price of petrol" incident[edit]A cartoon by Zec published in 1942 caused a political furore that threatened the existence of the Daily Mirror and caused him to be labelled a traitor.[5] Appearing in the 6 March 1942 edition, the cartoon featured a merchant seaman adrift in rough waters clinging to the remains of a ship, apparently torpedoed by a German submarine. Beneath the picture, the caption read: "The price of petrol has been increased by one penny – Official."
Zec produced his cartoons under the pen-name "Low". I remember this one well, for it made a tremendous impression on me (and many others). I can see it now and I can add detail to the above:
Under a darkening sky, somewhere in the far wastes of the Atlantic, a lone, dying, oil-soaked merchant seaman is spread-eagled on a wooden grating. Over on the horizon his burning tanker sinks. The Caption ?... "The price of petrol has been increased by one half penny a gallon from midnight tonight".
Every serviceman who was tempted to syphon off a gallon for his car or bike thought twice about it - for we all read the "Mirror" (always "Just Jayne" first!)
Of course, the imputation of treason was rubbish - I never heard it at the time.
Danny.
EDIT: On 6 March, 1942, I was on my Wings Parade at Craig Field, Selma, Alabama. How did I manage to see that day's "Mirror" ? Don't know - must have seen an old copy after return to UK on 19 March. Perhaps people hung on to it because of the powerful cartoon. D.
Your #7145: ".....I never "borrowed" fuel from Aunty Betty again during my career...."
Brought to mind a story I Posted long ago on this Thread (and PPRuNE now cannot trace, so I'll have to put it again) on the misuse of 100 octane in wartime.
But Wiki got it for me:
"The price of petrol" incident[edit]A cartoon by Zec published in 1942 caused a political furore that threatened the existence of the Daily Mirror and caused him to be labelled a traitor.[5] Appearing in the 6 March 1942 edition, the cartoon featured a merchant seaman adrift in rough waters clinging to the remains of a ship, apparently torpedoed by a German submarine. Beneath the picture, the caption read: "The price of petrol has been increased by one penny – Official."
Zec produced his cartoons under the pen-name "Low". I remember this one well, for it made a tremendous impression on me (and many others). I can see it now and I can add detail to the above:
Under a darkening sky, somewhere in the far wastes of the Atlantic, a lone, dying, oil-soaked merchant seaman is spread-eagled on a wooden grating. Over on the horizon his burning tanker sinks. The Caption ?... "The price of petrol has been increased by one half penny a gallon from midnight tonight".
Every serviceman who was tempted to syphon off a gallon for his car or bike thought twice about it - for we all read the "Mirror" (always "Just Jayne" first!)
Of course, the imputation of treason was rubbish - I never heard it at the time.
Danny.
EDIT: On 6 March, 1942, I was on my Wings Parade at Craig Field, Selma, Alabama. How did I manage to see that day's "Mirror" ? Don't know - must have seen an old copy after return to UK on 19 March. Perhaps people hung on to it because of the powerful cartoon. D.
Last edited by Danny42C; 7th Jul 2015 at 14:58. Reason: Addn.
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As this our Best of All Threads has once again found itself in the doldrums of Page 2, and because I may have given the impression that no further misuse of Service petrol took place in later years, I must sadly confess that in Burma some proud VV aircrew actually washed their aircraft in 100 octane (because it was more readily available at the Flights than water). 
They had their come-uppance, however. For it was noted that aircraft so pampered invariably (for a variety of reasons) crashed shortly afterwards. A superstition took hold; the practice was discontinued.
This jinx did not seem to operate in the more common practice of dunking your Cap SD in a four-gallon can of the stuff when its condition warranted. As 100-octane is dyed green, your flat-'at took on a pleasing green tinge, rather like verdigris. The wearer's length of time out there would be reflected in the depth of colour.
This was not a total loss, for the mechs would use the canful for de-greasing
khaki drill, components and tools, etc.
Attempts to use it in our pressure-lamps (in lieu of paraffin) were, alas,
spectacularly unsuccessful
Just thought you'd like to know.
Danny42C.
They had their come-uppance, however. For it was noted that aircraft so pampered invariably (for a variety of reasons) crashed shortly afterwards. A superstition took hold; the practice was discontinued.
This jinx did not seem to operate in the more common practice of dunking your Cap SD in a four-gallon can of the stuff when its condition warranted. As 100-octane is dyed green, your flat-'at took on a pleasing green tinge, rather like verdigris. The wearer's length of time out there would be reflected in the depth of colour.
This was not a total loss, for the mechs would use the canful for de-greasing
khaki drill, components and tools, etc.
Attempts to use it in our pressure-lamps (in lieu of paraffin) were, alas,
spectacularly unsuccessful
Just thought you'd like to know.
Danny42C.
Danny,
in Cyprus in the early sixties we the groundcrew, would drain the AVTAG bowser hoses for two uses. One was to fill the caps of polish tins in which the legs of our (bunk) beds stood to try to prevent th bed bugs ants etc from sharing our mean mattress. The other in winter was for the primitive parafin stoves we used to have as our only form of heating. It was a choice between freezing and suffocation !
in Cyprus in the early sixties we the groundcrew, would drain the AVTAG bowser hoses for two uses. One was to fill the caps of polish tins in which the legs of our (bunk) beds stood to try to prevent th bed bugs ants etc from sharing our mean mattress. The other in winter was for the primitive parafin stoves we used to have as our only form of heating. It was a choice between freezing and suffocation !
Danny
At Gan in 1958 the NCO i/c the fuel dump swore that the multipurpose degreaser TeePol was the best shampoo he'd ever used, not only that it did a good job on his head, but on his body and clothes too etc. Mind you he was in the position to have his own personal 44-gall drum(s) of the stuff hidden away in Gan's fuel dump of 44-gall AVGAS drums as seen here.
At Gan in 1958 the NCO i/c the fuel dump swore that the multipurpose degreaser TeePol was the best shampoo he'd ever used, not only that it did a good job on his head, but on his body and clothes too etc. Mind you he was in the position to have his own personal 44-gall drum(s) of the stuff hidden away in Gan's fuel dump of 44-gall AVGAS drums as seen here.
Warmtoast,
all that AVGAS would have kept ny Supercub going for a few hours !
all that AVGAS would have kept ny Supercub going for a few hours !
Whist helping out with the IAT at Middle Wallop in 1982 I managed to get a lump of grease on my SD hat (from a new, greased-up Landie). Bemoaning my fate in the tea bar, a WO from the AAC offered to clean the 'lid' if I promised not to go anywhere improperly dressed!!
Several minutes later the said WO beckoned me through the window to join him ... "Do you smoke SAH?", I don't, "Would you like to have a walk round for a bit SAH?", I did. So off I went, with a shimmering head and a pristine hat!!
The WO offered no explanation and I, certainly, asked no questions!
Several minutes later the said WO beckoned me through the window to join him ... "Do you smoke SAH?", I don't, "Would you like to have a walk round for a bit SAH?", I did. So off I went, with a shimmering head and a pristine hat!!
The WO offered no explanation and I, certainly, asked no questions!
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ancientavaiator (your #7189),
Presumably you had steel framed (or well made) wooden bed frames. Our charpoys had rough mortice 'n tenon joints in which bed-bugs slept off their nightly feast of our blood, so they didn't need to clamber up the legs. However, we used the same technique to frustrste the white ants, but kerosene is better - petrol evaporates too quickly.
You surely didn't use octane for your paraffin stoves, did you ? (One of the most common summer admissions to A&E [so my daughter tells me] is the impatient gardener who uses a drop of petrol to get a garden rubbish fire going).
Warmtoast (your #7190),
I have long suspected that most branded shampoos were just TeePol plus a bit of cheap perfume (just as most aftershaves are surgical spirit plus same).
You could wash an awful lot of aircraft with that lot of Avtur !
Cheers both, Danny.
Presumably you had steel framed (or well made) wooden bed frames. Our charpoys had rough mortice 'n tenon joints in which bed-bugs slept off their nightly feast of our blood, so they didn't need to clamber up the legs. However, we used the same technique to frustrste the white ants, but kerosene is better - petrol evaporates too quickly.
You surely didn't use octane for your paraffin stoves, did you ? (One of the most common summer admissions to A&E [so my daughter tells me] is the impatient gardener who uses a drop of petrol to get a garden rubbish fire going).
Warmtoast (your #7190),
I have long suspected that most branded shampoos were just TeePol plus a bit of cheap perfume (just as most aftershaves are surgical spirit plus same).
You could wash an awful lot of aircraft with that lot of Avtur !
Cheers both, Danny.
Last edited by Danny42C; 10th Jul 2015 at 00:01. Reason: Spacing & Addn
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Ahh, WD40, aka PX24. I had the pleasure of acquiring a 5 litre tin of that when the RN cleared out/dumped their Camp stores at Bisley in the late 80s.
Last forever, it seems. I chuck it everywhere
(apologies, thats a bit modern, but conformal with the discussion I hope)
Last forever, it seems. I chuck it everywhere
(apologies, thats a bit modern, but conformal with the discussion I hope)
Excuse the slight diversion all, I have to report an amazing event. Mrs Smudge, being bereft of reading material, picked up and started reading my copy of From night Flak to Hijack, the first time she has raided my library. Why am I not surprised that she informs me that it's one of the best books she has read, and why didn't I tell her 
Meanwhile, on the subject of "borrowing AVGAS";
Sometime around 1978 I was a member of ground staff (a rigger) on Oxford University Air Squadron at RAF Abingdon. It seems that Royal Navy Elementary Flying Training Squadron (RNEFTS) at RAF Topcliffe were behind on their training schedule, and needed to clear the backlog be fire the arrival of the now Duke of York for basic training. Four of us pond life, and a QFI plus aircraft were detached to help clear the backlog. We pond life were told that we could claim travel from Yorkshire to Oxfordshire, but should share transport to economise costs. We all elected to travel in my Triumph Herald Convertible, and I would claim for the trip, plus three passengers (a considerable cost reduction on 4 seperate vehicles). The detachment was expected to extend to 6 weeks, so we needed to "sort out" our weekend travel and "maximise" our economies!
After taking some advice from fellow servicemen who commuted weekly, I was advised that the Avagas bowser "built up" ullage through the week, which could be imbibed in on a Friday afternoon at the back of the hangar. The advice being that a 50/50 mix with 2 star petrol was good go juice. We duly went with the flow and enjoyed some trips home on 50/50 for around 4 weekends. During week five it appeared that we were nearing the end of the backlog, and would likely be given the RTU signal before the weekend. In true tradition, we spent the week enjoying the delights of Theakstones brewery, the White Bear (attached) and watching Brian Cloughs Nottingham Forest win the European Cup, or some such footy award. As we made good use of the Herald that week, on Friday, and Old Peculiar had Abu then taken full control of my inter ear capability, I had forgotten to ensure a half petrol load of 2 star before my Friday afternoon "bowser top up"!
Off we set for home, and happily, end of detachment, only for being back home because it was a great time we had had. I think it was just south of Nottingham that the piston shot through the bonnet of the Herald. Thankfully it dropped out of gear quickly enough to leave enough motion to get us to the hard shoulder. Give them their due, the lads stumped up their share for the recovery to Abingdon. It was expensive to Junior Technicians and Senior Aircraftsmen in those days, probably far outweighing the advantages of using the 100LL in the first place. I never, ever, abused the system again! Lesson learned
Smudge
Meanwhile, on the subject of "borrowing AVGAS";Sometime around 1978 I was a member of ground staff (a rigger) on Oxford University Air Squadron at RAF Abingdon. It seems that Royal Navy Elementary Flying Training Squadron (RNEFTS) at RAF Topcliffe were behind on their training schedule, and needed to clear the backlog be fire the arrival of the now Duke of York for basic training. Four of us pond life, and a QFI plus aircraft were detached to help clear the backlog. We pond life were told that we could claim travel from Yorkshire to Oxfordshire, but should share transport to economise costs. We all elected to travel in my Triumph Herald Convertible, and I would claim for the trip, plus three passengers (a considerable cost reduction on 4 seperate vehicles). The detachment was expected to extend to 6 weeks, so we needed to "sort out" our weekend travel and "maximise" our economies!
After taking some advice from fellow servicemen who commuted weekly, I was advised that the Avagas bowser "built up" ullage through the week, which could be imbibed in on a Friday afternoon at the back of the hangar. The advice being that a 50/50 mix with 2 star petrol was good go juice. We duly went with the flow and enjoyed some trips home on 50/50 for around 4 weekends. During week five it appeared that we were nearing the end of the backlog, and would likely be given the RTU signal before the weekend. In true tradition, we spent the week enjoying the delights of Theakstones brewery, the White Bear (attached) and watching Brian Cloughs Nottingham Forest win the European Cup, or some such footy award. As we made good use of the Herald that week, on Friday, and Old Peculiar had Abu then taken full control of my inter ear capability, I had forgotten to ensure a half petrol load of 2 star before my Friday afternoon "bowser top up"!
Off we set for home, and happily, end of detachment, only for being back home because it was a great time we had had. I think it was just south of Nottingham that the piston shot through the bonnet of the Herald. Thankfully it dropped out of gear quickly enough to leave enough motion to get us to the hard shoulder. Give them their due, the lads stumped up their share for the recovery to Abingdon. It was expensive to Junior Technicians and Senior Aircraftsmen in those days, probably far outweighing the advantages of using the 100LL in the first place. I never, ever, abused the system again! Lesson learned
Smudge
Last edited by smujsmith; 9th Jul 2015 at 20:28.
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aa62, Your #7189 . .
In Egypt in the 50's we used the 50-cigarette tins, once empty, filled with petrol too. Unfortunately the Wily Oriental Gentlemen bedbugs then climbed the wall, across the ceiling and landed on target.
In Egypt in the 50's we used the 50-cigarette tins, once empty, filled with petrol too. Unfortunately the Wily Oriental Gentlemen bedbugs then climbed the wall, across the ceiling and landed on target.
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ValMORNA (your # 7196),
Answer is Mossie Nets (they're too big to go through net). But you always had a resident population in the crevices of your charpoy, these got in someway or other.
Answer: Knock all joints apart, dunk ends in kerosene, re-assemble charpoy.
Smell of kerosene inhibits reinfestation for quite some time.
Danny.
Answer is Mossie Nets (they're too big to go through net). But you always had a resident population in the crevices of your charpoy, these got in someway or other.
Answer: Knock all joints apart, dunk ends in kerosene, re-assemble charpoy.
Smell of kerosene inhibits reinfestation for quite some time.
Danny.
Danny,
the fuel we used was kerosene, AVTAG or AVTUR as used by our 'Gloster Grovelins'. Yes the beds were the grey metal type.
the fuel we used was kerosene, AVTAG or AVTUR as used by our 'Gloster Grovelins'. Yes the beds were the grey metal type.