Aircrew rations
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AGE?????
"Oh and just as an afterthought, the reason a lot of linies eat the leftover rations is because they dont have time to go to the mess as they are too busy fixing the jets to keep you flying."
Well perhaps they should bring their own packed lunches then.
And as for the name!!! mightyhunter AGE? You are a crew chief not a real AGE, if you were then perhaps you wouldn't be whinging when in the back of Albert for 8 hours with only your packed lunch.
Well perhaps they should bring their own packed lunches then.
And as for the name!!! mightyhunter AGE? You are a crew chief not a real AGE, if you were then perhaps you wouldn't be whinging when in the back of Albert for 8 hours with only your packed lunch.
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Swinging monkey it is you that is the true sad ****!
I agree wholeheatedly with super age, why should aircrew get FREE food ?
Give me a genuine good reason why.
If you were a none aircrew trade doing a 12 hour shift would you get a free food? NO so why should aircrew get it for doing a six hour CT, even if you factor in the briefing time and the de brief it is still much less than 12 hours, and as for sims well that really is taking the piss on a massive scale.
Your argument I suspect is that you can't nip out for food whilst above the Irish sea at 250 ft, very true but most of the living out guys don't go to the mess or the spar shop when they are on the ground! they bring in a packed lunch, what is so different about aircrew?
It is a shame that perks are being removed but look at it honestly from the outside and it is very hard to justify.
If you are not allowed to get food when doing a 12 hour night shift on guard in the middle of winter then prey do tell why aircrew should get free food (tonnes of it) for a simulator?
And whilst we are at it talk of fostering good relations between air and groundcrews will always be difficult whilst idiots wearing flying suits think that evryone aspires to be aircrew and those that aren't are not clever enough!!
Get real
I agree wholeheatedly with super age, why should aircrew get FREE food ?
Give me a genuine good reason why.
If you were a none aircrew trade doing a 12 hour shift would you get a free food? NO so why should aircrew get it for doing a six hour CT, even if you factor in the briefing time and the de brief it is still much less than 12 hours, and as for sims well that really is taking the piss on a massive scale.
Your argument I suspect is that you can't nip out for food whilst above the Irish sea at 250 ft, very true but most of the living out guys don't go to the mess or the spar shop when they are on the ground! they bring in a packed lunch, what is so different about aircrew?
It is a shame that perks are being removed but look at it honestly from the outside and it is very hard to justify.
If you are not allowed to get food when doing a 12 hour night shift on guard in the middle of winter then prey do tell why aircrew should get free food (tonnes of it) for a simulator?
And whilst we are at it talk of fostering good relations between air and groundcrews will always be difficult whilst idiots wearing flying suits think that evryone aspires to be aircrew and those that aren't are not clever enough!!
Get real
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Again I quote "Oh, those poor groundies, so hard-worked and no time to get to the mess, shame." If you are so full of contempt for those who ensure you fly safely then why do you keep posting back answers? Damned if you do, damned if you dont...........
Startermotor
I am sorry you feel that way about crew chiefs, remember when you applied to remuster to age there was a box into which you inserted the type of aircraft you wished to ge on, made a small mistake did you then mate??
Dry your eyes I filled the same form in as you except I didnt fancy becoming a pretendy aircrew guy, if thats what real GEing is all about then fill your flying boots then.
Startermotor
I am sorry you feel that way about crew chiefs, remember when you applied to remuster to age there was a box into which you inserted the type of aircraft you wished to ge on, made a small mistake did you then mate??
Dry your eyes I filled the same form in as you except I didnt fancy becoming a pretendy aircrew guy, if thats what real GEing is all about then fill your flying boots then.
Does anyone else find it quite funny that one of the most hotly responded-to threads on a military aviation forum is about packed lunches? 
I must say, I am quite disappointed at the contempt that aircrew and ground crew seem to have for each other. Still, one hopes that when push comes to shove we all work together, lunch or no lunch....
I must say, I am quite disappointed at the contempt that aircrew and ground crew seem to have for each other. Still, one hopes that when push comes to shove we all work together, lunch or no lunch....
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Originally Posted by Beagle
Aircrew should only eat food which has been properly prepared. FL350 with 4 hours to go is bad enough, but getting the sh*ts at 250 feet in a Herc would be less than amusing. So no, you certainly shouldn't bring your own !
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toddbabe,
I don't see anywhere on this forum where anyone is even remotely suggesting that 'idiots wearing flying suits think that evryone aspires to be aircrew and those that aren't are not clever enough' perhaps you would be so kind as to point that part out to me?
The reason why aircrew have been rationed, and cointinue to be rationed is a simple one Human Physiology. Now you can believe it or not, but that is the fact why aircrew are given rations whilst on flying duties. I wouldn't argue with you about the simulator, but as far as flying duties are concerned, there is a real need (according to the medics) to be correctly rationed.
Now understandably, you and AGE feel agrieved by this. You feel that you are 'equal' to the aircrew, and if you can't have rations, then why should anyone else? Whilst I understand your gripe, that is NOT a reason for you to argue for the withdrawl of rations. Whenever I took a Crew Chief flying with me and my crew, they were also rationed, and I didn't see any of them refuse the food. Likewise, if we took other groundcrew with us, they were also rationed. So I don't see what your problem is frankly. You would have been quite happy to have been rationed for duty supper I suspect when it was available, or whilst on guard duty or whatever, all free of charge?
I would agree with you that the loss of these 'perks' if you like was yet another kick in the teeth for the military, but is that any reason to now argue for a further reduction in 'perks' albeit for the aircrew minority??
Let me put it to you another way: If you were being 'flown' somewhere nice, on your holidays and with your family or friends, how would you feel if you knew that the Captain and Co-Pilot, hadn't eaten 'properly' for a few hours prior to the flight, and just had some quick 'junk food' that they had picked up prior to flight, on an 18 hour trip to say Hong Kong?? Would you be happy with that? Would you not feel happer knowing that they had been fed and watered properly, and were feeling 'good' prior to a landing some 18 hours later?
I would and so should you, because, as you will probably well know, we as humans do not perform well, if we have not been fed or watered. Now I'm not making excuses here for the aircrew. These are the facts, take them or leave them. Ask the guys at the Institute of Aviatiojn medicine at Farnboro' and they will explain it to you far better than I can. But please don't argue for one element of the service to lose a perk, simply because you have unfortunately lost one yourself.
And by the way, You will find that Aircrew, both Officer and NCO also lost the free meals for OO, guard duty, etc.It wasn't just restricted to the groundcrew.
Of course I could start another thread asking why it is that Officers HAVE to pay for their uniforms and the others don't!! but I shall refrain on this occasion.
The Winco
I don't see anywhere on this forum where anyone is even remotely suggesting that 'idiots wearing flying suits think that evryone aspires to be aircrew and those that aren't are not clever enough' perhaps you would be so kind as to point that part out to me?
The reason why aircrew have been rationed, and cointinue to be rationed is a simple one Human Physiology. Now you can believe it or not, but that is the fact why aircrew are given rations whilst on flying duties. I wouldn't argue with you about the simulator, but as far as flying duties are concerned, there is a real need (according to the medics) to be correctly rationed.
Now understandably, you and AGE feel agrieved by this. You feel that you are 'equal' to the aircrew, and if you can't have rations, then why should anyone else? Whilst I understand your gripe, that is NOT a reason for you to argue for the withdrawl of rations. Whenever I took a Crew Chief flying with me and my crew, they were also rationed, and I didn't see any of them refuse the food. Likewise, if we took other groundcrew with us, they were also rationed. So I don't see what your problem is frankly. You would have been quite happy to have been rationed for duty supper I suspect when it was available, or whilst on guard duty or whatever, all free of charge?
I would agree with you that the loss of these 'perks' if you like was yet another kick in the teeth for the military, but is that any reason to now argue for a further reduction in 'perks' albeit for the aircrew minority??
Let me put it to you another way: If you were being 'flown' somewhere nice, on your holidays and with your family or friends, how would you feel if you knew that the Captain and Co-Pilot, hadn't eaten 'properly' for a few hours prior to the flight, and just had some quick 'junk food' that they had picked up prior to flight, on an 18 hour trip to say Hong Kong?? Would you be happy with that? Would you not feel happer knowing that they had been fed and watered properly, and were feeling 'good' prior to a landing some 18 hours later?
I would and so should you, because, as you will probably well know, we as humans do not perform well, if we have not been fed or watered. Now I'm not making excuses here for the aircrew. These are the facts, take them or leave them. Ask the guys at the Institute of Aviatiojn medicine at Farnboro' and they will explain it to you far better than I can. But please don't argue for one element of the service to lose a perk, simply because you have unfortunately lost one yourself.
And by the way, You will find that Aircrew, both Officer and NCO also lost the free meals for OO, guard duty, etc.It wasn't just restricted to the groundcrew.
Of course I could start another thread asking why it is that Officers HAVE to pay for their uniforms and the others don't!! but I shall refrain on this occasion.
The Winco
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so very sad
Its a while since I parted company with the RAF ('78), but I spent time on (pseudo) transport sqdns, (115 Sdn Argosies, Varsitys), V-force, 2 TAF, Leapin' Heaps (Witt) etc, etc. Apart from a couple of prima donnas (meet them everywhere), there was never, in my experience, a great flyers / groundies divide, mutual respect was the norm.
In those (good) times, everyone got free food when on guard, exercise, flying, etc, even long road journeys! - and no-one coveted their neighbour's sarnie box, whether from aircrew rations or the mess.
As a Groundy, when the opportunity presented itself any "leftovers" from the aircraft were gratefully accepted, for various reasons including those mentioned above (cleaning the aircraft / no opportunity to get to the mess due to snag fixing, and so on). No-one made any big deal about it, it was just the way it was.
What really saddens me is to see the vitriolic sniping going on between a couple of guys (TSM & AGE) whose inputs I have enjoyed in the past.
That the bean counters / stealers have brought the state of moral in the service to this level is the real pity.
Come on guys, kiss and make up eh?
Incidentally, I did see one (Varsity) pilot open the cockpit side window and throw his sarnies out somewhere over the med. once, so perhaps that was an alternative to bringing them back!
In those (good) times, everyone got free food when on guard, exercise, flying, etc, even long road journeys! - and no-one coveted their neighbour's sarnie box, whether from aircrew rations or the mess.
As a Groundy, when the opportunity presented itself any "leftovers" from the aircraft were gratefully accepted, for various reasons including those mentioned above (cleaning the aircraft / no opportunity to get to the mess due to snag fixing, and so on). No-one made any big deal about it, it was just the way it was.
What really saddens me is to see the vitriolic sniping going on between a couple of guys (TSM & AGE) whose inputs I have enjoyed in the past.
That the bean counters / stealers have brought the state of moral in the service to this level is the real pity.
Come on guys, kiss and make up eh?
Incidentally, I did see one (Varsity) pilot open the cockpit side window and throw his sarnies out somewhere over the med. once, so perhaps that was an alternative to bringing them back!
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Winco
A solid post and i doff my cap off to someone who has a voice of reason on a thread where we maybe went astray, forgive me but TSMs points were designed to provoke and I for one rose too quickly.
MHAGE
A solid post and i doff my cap off to someone who has a voice of reason on a thread where we maybe went astray, forgive me but TSMs points were designed to provoke and I for one rose too quickly.
MHAGE
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V Force feeding scales
Just as well some of your weren't around in the 1960s when V force aircrew got specially prepared FREE, pre and post flight meals. That would cause some very harsh banter I am sure, if it was still going on!
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If you want to know why Aircrew need to be fed properly, read David Beatty's 'Naked Pilot' which is an easy to read study on Human Factors in air accidents.
We were not allowed to fly without first having breakfast. (Chargeable offence in my dim recollection)
We were not allowed to fly without first having breakfast. (Chargeable offence in my dim recollection)
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Winco wrote
"The reason why aircrew have been rationed, and cointinue to be rationed is a simple one Human Physiology. Now you can believe it or not, but that is the fact why aircrew are given rations whilst on flying duties. I wouldn't argue with you about the simulator, but as far as flying duties are concerned, there is a real need (according to the medics) to be correctly rationed."
So what Groundcrew don't need fed for human Physiology?
"Would you not feel happer knowing that they had been fed and watered properly, and were feeling 'good' prior to a landing some 18 hours later?"
Firstly we are talking about uk flying where 18 hour flights don't happen and secondly let me reverse that quote by saying would you be happy getting into a jet that has just been serviced/rectified by a group of guys nearing the end of a shift without having been fed? the answer is of course NO, Neither group should have to do without, but should food be free for one group and not the next? of course not!
"And by the way, You will find that Aircrew, both Officer and NCO also lost the free meals for OO, guard duty, etc.It wasn't just restricted to the groundcrew."
I never mentioned that anything about ranks or trades when
talking about Guard duty entitlements
I personally feel that personnel on Stn duties shouldn't get their food for free, I agree that Aircrew should get food when flying and that ALL personnel work better and are more alert after having been fed and watered properly, what I disagree with strongly is that One group of people get food for free whilst doing their job, why? the crucial part here is the cost, I am not saying don't give aircrew food but just let them pay for it like the rest of the Airforce.
And Lastly You don't have to be a genius to know what I was saying about the Aircrew superiority complex being true in a large ammount of cases is still true.
"The reason why aircrew have been rationed, and cointinue to be rationed is a simple one Human Physiology. Now you can believe it or not, but that is the fact why aircrew are given rations whilst on flying duties. I wouldn't argue with you about the simulator, but as far as flying duties are concerned, there is a real need (according to the medics) to be correctly rationed."
So what Groundcrew don't need fed for human Physiology?
"Would you not feel happer knowing that they had been fed and watered properly, and were feeling 'good' prior to a landing some 18 hours later?"
Firstly we are talking about uk flying where 18 hour flights don't happen and secondly let me reverse that quote by saying would you be happy getting into a jet that has just been serviced/rectified by a group of guys nearing the end of a shift without having been fed? the answer is of course NO, Neither group should have to do without, but should food be free for one group and not the next? of course not!
"And by the way, You will find that Aircrew, both Officer and NCO also lost the free meals for OO, guard duty, etc.It wasn't just restricted to the groundcrew."
I never mentioned that anything about ranks or trades when
talking about Guard duty entitlements
I personally feel that personnel on Stn duties shouldn't get their food for free, I agree that Aircrew should get food when flying and that ALL personnel work better and are more alert after having been fed and watered properly, what I disagree with strongly is that One group of people get food for free whilst doing their job, why? the crucial part here is the cost, I am not saying don't give aircrew food but just let them pay for it like the rest of the Airforce.
And Lastly You don't have to be a genius to know what I was saying about the Aircrew superiority complex being true in a large ammount of cases is still true.
Gentleman Aviator
And weren't "high energy rations" (aircrew choccies) introduced at a time of sugar rationing .......
....... which finished IIRC in about 1954.....
[and I speak as a fully paid up (and slightly porky
) member of the TWMR]
....... which finished IIRC in about 1954.....
[and I speak as a fully paid up (and slightly porky
) member of the TWMR]
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toddbabe,
You should be turning your argument around, and NOT moaning about the aircrew, that is my point Sir! You should be fighting to restore your LOST perks, not fighting to get the aircrew to lose theirs! What do you stand to gain by the aircrew losing their rations? The answer is absolutely nothing, so why are you doing it, if its not to cause ill-feeling between the aircrew and groundcrew? What is the point?
The fact is, if you feel its wrong that you have lost your 'free' meals (and I do agree with you 100% that its wrong) then fight about it. Put a post on here, write to the CAS, do whatever you want. I will support you and I'm sure so will the aircrew. But just because you have lost your ball, don't try and have the aircrews' ball taken away from them, please.
The Winco
You should be turning your argument around, and NOT moaning about the aircrew, that is my point Sir! You should be fighting to restore your LOST perks, not fighting to get the aircrew to lose theirs! What do you stand to gain by the aircrew losing their rations? The answer is absolutely nothing, so why are you doing it, if its not to cause ill-feeling between the aircrew and groundcrew? What is the point?
The fact is, if you feel its wrong that you have lost your 'free' meals (and I do agree with you 100% that its wrong) then fight about it. Put a post on here, write to the CAS, do whatever you want. I will support you and I'm sure so will the aircrew. But just because you have lost your ball, don't try and have the aircrews' ball taken away from them, please.
The Winco
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This has to be one of the most amusing and pointless threads that have been on here for a long time. Isn't the PM function best employed for personal squabbles?
Meanwhile, somewhere in the East.......
Meanwhile, somewhere in the East.......
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Just to lighten things a little: -
What are the worst things you've been presented with in a lumpy box?
Grated mixed cheese and salad cream sandwiches or chicken & mushroom pies with real feathers inside would be my choice! And those nasty lard and pastry things trying to imitate sausage rolls.
What are the worst things you've been presented with in a lumpy box?
Grated mixed cheese and salad cream sandwiches or chicken & mushroom pies with real feathers inside would be my choice! And those nasty lard and pastry things trying to imitate sausage rolls.
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Agreed Wizard - nobody's interested in serious issues so lets run with this for a while Anyway I like a good fight 
my money's on SuperAGE if he's the bloke I think he is!!!!
With all the recent cutbacks, the IF allowance is worth pennies now - I bring my own butty box, made with Mrs Smiter's loving hands, and feel much better for it.
However, up here at ISK the great maritime chefs would be turning in their graves. My first flight in Norman c.1980 - an 8 hour Tapestry, Freddy Q wearing the apron - Mars bar (non veggie), sarnies, sausage roll, jock pie, honkers, more honkers, DCS (dairy cream sponge) and 3 cups of coffee - then we called 'On task'. I was only sick the once, for 8 hours.
Other memorable galley performances:
The incomparable farmer Branters, who's Korma was to die for - literally, depending how much chicken sh1t was under the nail of the finger he used in lieu of the probe.
Fantastic performance by Jan - Surf & Turf out of Bermuda all the way to Lajes - BZ mate.
Ric's brilliant effort at home made curry - took all trip NAG and back - cut short by the underfloor and RTB - I never did get mine and the groundies couldn't work out if it was hyd oil or coriander.
Nice pot of tea and plate of jam and scones by Kirsty.
And of course, on the dark side, the use of rations as a weapon of war:
Glyn, bitter and twisted Jag mate, who thought all siggies were SAC's in green bags. Whoops! That was well worth the VERY special coffee, and other food stuffs with interesting and novel ingredients.
Do you have any stories from the galley?
Anyway I like a good fight my money's on SuperAGE if he's the bloke I think he is!!!!With all the recent cutbacks, the IF allowance is worth pennies now - I bring my own butty box, made with Mrs Smiter's loving hands, and feel much better for it.
However, up here at ISK the great maritime chefs would be turning in their graves. My first flight in Norman c.1980 - an 8 hour Tapestry, Freddy Q wearing the apron - Mars bar (non veggie), sarnies, sausage roll, jock pie, honkers, more honkers, DCS (dairy cream sponge) and 3 cups of coffee - then we called 'On task'. I was only sick the once, for 8 hours.
Other memorable galley performances:
The incomparable farmer Branters, who's Korma was to die for - literally, depending how much chicken sh1t was under the nail of the finger he used in lieu of the probe.
Fantastic performance by Jan - Surf & Turf out of Bermuda all the way to Lajes - BZ mate.
Ric's brilliant effort at home made curry - took all trip NAG and back - cut short by the underfloor and RTB - I never did get mine and the groundies couldn't work out if it was hyd oil or coriander.
Nice pot of tea and plate of jam and scones by Kirsty.
And of course, on the dark side, the use of rations as a weapon of war:
Glyn, bitter and twisted Jag mate, who thought all siggies were SAC's in green bags. Whoops! That was well worth the VERY special coffee, and other food stuffs with interesting and novel ingredients.
Do you have any stories from the galley?
- for years only ever found in a white box. 
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I have been fed by the RNZAF, RAAF, USAF etc. The USAF one was best. It had an EAT BY Time on it. We had to scoff it down before flight and before it ran out of crew eating time.
The RAAF rations? well we were not airborne long enough to eat them all.
French? with wine.
Back to BEagles point about food hygiene or more properly Aviation Medicine that was the reason for the V-Force having PRE-FLIGHT and POST-FLIGHT meals as well as in-flight.
It was deemed necessary to eat a proper meal before flight that was low on cellulose and fat. In-flight was low quantity, high energy food. Post-flight was designed to ensure that the jaws were sufficiently exercised to allow air into the inner ear. Having suffered oxygen ear I assure you that is no joke.
Back on the food hygiene issue, cooked meals were provided by galley slaves on the Nimrod and Shackleton but no hygiene rules except, and I think this was unofficial, captain and copilot would eat different meals.
The RAAF rations? well we were not airborne long enough to eat them all.
French? with wine.
Back to BEagles point about food hygiene or more properly Aviation Medicine that was the reason for the V-Force having PRE-FLIGHT and POST-FLIGHT meals as well as in-flight.
It was deemed necessary to eat a proper meal before flight that was low on cellulose and fat. In-flight was low quantity, high energy food. Post-flight was designed to ensure that the jaws were sufficiently exercised to allow air into the inner ear. Having suffered oxygen ear I assure you that is no joke.
Back on the food hygiene issue, cooked meals were provided by galley slaves on the Nimrod and Shackleton but no hygiene rules except, and I think this was unofficial, captain and copilot would eat different meals.