CS vs. Mil Pay
Nigegilb
Mrs CG is an SEO in DWP, that's 2 staff grades above EO, and gets about £32 grand.
I'd like to know where you think EOs get paid £30k+.
CG
Sorry for being so far down the reply list!
Mrs CG is an SEO in DWP, that's 2 staff grades above EO, and gets about £32 grand.
I'd like to know where you think EOs get paid £30k+.
CG
Sorry for being so far down the reply list!
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Nige,
CS and Mil pay scales for 04 on post 33. Haven't change much since then. Send me the url and i'll check it out 4u - poss a misunderstanding of grading structures and nomenclatures.
CS and Mil pay scales for 04 on post 33. Haven't change much since then. Send me the url and i'll check it out 4u - poss a misunderstanding of grading structures and nomenclatures.
The MOD system is set up with a payspine and target rate. CS's move up one point on the payspine each financial year (always assuming the unions/MOD agree payrise in time), until they hit the 'target' salary rate for the grade.
On paper and in theory an EO could just about earn 30k, BUT it would only be the most senior members of the grade who got it. On average the unions reckoned it would take 20years for most grades to hit their target salaries.
On paper and in theory an EO could just about earn 30k, BUT it would only be the most senior members of the grade who got it. On average the unions reckoned it would take 20years for most grades to hit their target salaries.
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Nigegilb
When you refer to having seen the payscales on the PCS website I think you have misinterpreted them. These are the scales that the PCS would like members of the CS paid and are far in excess of the actual reality (I think the theory is...if you don't ask you don't get)
JL1
as for an Band D being paid 30k, I am yet to meet colleague of this grade who is paid such an amount. In fact there can't be many C2s on this salary.
Furthermore I feel that it is about time that people started accepting that everybody, (well the majority!), responsible for the defence of this country, (whether mil or CS), do an excellent job.
When you refer to having seen the payscales on the PCS website I think you have misinterpreted them. These are the scales that the PCS would like members of the CS paid and are far in excess of the actual reality (I think the theory is...if you don't ask you don't get)
JL1
as for an Band D being paid 30k, I am yet to meet colleague of this grade who is paid such an amount. In fact there can't be many C2s on this salary.
Furthermore I feel that it is about time that people started accepting that everybody, (well the majority!), responsible for the defence of this country, (whether mil or CS), do an excellent job.
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[quote=tucumseh;2891932]C2 £20821 £28702
E1 £13024 £19817
Here’s a thought. The grade (C2) who, as a project manager, may be responsible for £100M projects and the airworthiness of your kit, or manage 200 staff in a workshop (read the Treasury approved Grade descriptions), can earn the grand sum of £1004 per annum more than the grade (E1) who, typically, may do the office filing.
tucumseh
Been there and done this (happily now well away from it as it can seriously damage your health), and indeed I may know you personally.......
Do you happen to know what a C1 (ex SPTO) at max would be on these days please?
MTB
E1 £13024 £19817
Here’s a thought. The grade (C2) who, as a project manager, may be responsible for £100M projects and the airworthiness of your kit, or manage 200 staff in a workshop (read the Treasury approved Grade descriptions), can earn the grand sum of £1004 per annum more than the grade (E1) who, typically, may do the office filing.
tucumseh
Been there and done this (happily now well away from it as it can seriously damage your health), and indeed I may know you personally.......
Do you happen to know what a C1 (ex SPTO) at max would be on these days please?
MTB
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I applaud your comment. Well said, after all, both military and civilian personnel are working for the common goal. Unfortunately there will always be a disparity between military and CS pay, based upon equivalent skills and performance, and, as time goes by, the CS (engineers and other technical staff) will be replaced by contractors, who will then be paid more than their military or CS counterparts.. end result; reduction of output, increased cost, and you and I contribute to the bill.
"as for an Band D being paid 30k, I am yet to meet colleague of this grade who is paid such an amount. In fact there can't be many C2s on this salary. "
Err, that was my point! On theory, it is techincally feasible if you believe the system and don't get promoted ever. In reality it is very unlikely to happen.
Err, that was my point! On theory, it is techincally feasible if you believe the system and don't get promoted ever. In reality it is very unlikely to happen.
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The problem to be faced in the future is when the Operational Support Contracts come up for renewal the prices will go way up and the MoD will not have the staff to fall back on and have no option but to pay the increases.
I don't see how anyone other than 'mil' can be responsible for the defence of this country, unless the 'CS' has formed some latter day version of the LDV! Given the parlous state of our armed forces, thanks to the enthusiastic attentions of the CS in implementing the Great Leader's dictums and MOD Policy, their ability to defend other countries would seem greatly in question, evidenced by other threads on this forum. When, and I rather suspect not if, the defence of this country is at stake, it will be interesting to see the 'excellent job' that the CS do. Defence is about closing with the enemy and destroying him, before he destroys you, you know like the lads are doing in Sangin? What did you have in mind, minuting them to death? My job is to pay the CS. Their job is to support the Military (sorry just have to stop and repeat that). "The MODs job is to support our Armed Forces", 100 times on my desk by 9am tomorrow! Their job is to defend us!
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What did you have in mind, minuting them to death?
On the other hand, they've had plenty of success killing US off, whilst bloating their own numbers exponentially.....might be worth a try!
Don't worry about the lack of ac spares for theatre assetts, or the GSE that doesn't work - at least Civil Servants can rest comfortably in their 1,000 GBP-a-shot chairs - that's the main thing.
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InquisitorRegarding 1,000 GBP chairs-Firstly, I have not worked with any member of the CS with a chair that costs this much (actually, I tell a lie - there was one with a medical condition). I have a feeling that you have not seen many either! I am well aware that there are shortages on the frontline with regard to GSE and a whole load of other things. Maybe you should contact your suppliers and they will then liaise with, wait for it, a trusty civil servant who will provision this equipment (that's if they can because they have budgets like the rest of us!). Chugalug" thanks to the enthusiastic attentions of the CS in implementing the Great Leader's dictums and MOD Policy";.You make it sound like the CS actually anjoy doing this. It is their job, just like it is that of the Mil to implement and carry out the wishes of the government whether they like it or not! You state that your job is to pay the CS. Funnily enough their job is to pay you also! As for minuting you to death, all I can say is, at least they know how to minute files properly!TH
Gentleman Aviator
Do you happen to know what a C1 (ex SPTO) at max would be on these days please?
Min £26626
Target £35809
Max £38563
The min is spine point 36 and the target spine point 48, so that would normally take 12 years to get to......
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At contract renewal the new requirement will sweep up all those things that were missed first time round (increased bid from the contractor) and scrub those things that were in but no longer needed (no reduction from contractor). The new bid will then be 3x the original (it was).
It was also a lot more than had been budgetted for
so it was back to the drawing board and lines were crossed out, the contractors were asked to resubmit etc, and a new, x2.9 contract awarded.The customer does not get what he needs and the contractor does his level best to recover that lost 0.2+ (mic).
Oh, and the number of contractors putting in competitive bids? You don't have to take your mittens off.
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There is another option.
At contract renewal the new requirement will sweep up all those things that were missed first time round (increased bid from the contractor) and scrub those things that were in but no longer needed (no reduction from contractor). The new bid will then be 3x the original (it was).
It was also a lot more than had been budgetted for so it was back to the drawing board and lines were crossed out, the contractors were asked to resubmit etc, and a new, x2.9 contract awarded.
The customer does not get what he needs and the contractor does his level best to recover that lost 0.2+ (mic).
Oh, and the number of contractors putting in competitive bids? You don't have to take your mittens off.
At contract renewal the new requirement will sweep up all those things that were missed first time round (increased bid from the contractor) and scrub those things that were in but no longer needed (no reduction from contractor). The new bid will then be 3x the original (it was).
It was also a lot more than had been budgetted for
so it was back to the drawing board and lines were crossed out, the contractors were asked to resubmit etc, and a new, x2.9 contract awarded.The customer does not get what he needs and the contractor does his level best to recover that lost 0.2+ (mic).
Oh, and the number of contractors putting in competitive bids? You don't have to take your mittens off.
There's a little known clause in the competition process that allows previously successful companies to be "awarded" new contracts because it's 'already proven' that they've previously satisfied all competitive requirements. That's the way British Waste of Space et al manage to continue to fill their coffers at the taxpayers expence. It also may have something to do with many contractors' staff sitting in IPT's on a secondment basis and being able to rub shoulders with people in the know. But then again it might not, I'm only guessing.
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There is another problem with future competion. If the present Contractor is the Design Authority for the equipment being supported any other Contractor wishing to bid will be required to pay a licence fee to the Design Authority which added to their bid will make it uncompetitive.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
As the underbidder does not know this there is not a lot they can do is there?
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There is also another very good reason for the 'right' tenderer to be awarded the contract. It's possible that some very highly paid help with scrambled egg on their caps can then be hired on their retirement from the Service. They have a lot of useful connections you see. And the MIMechEs, FRAeSs and other assorted post nominals look ever so good on their swish letterheads! Mind you, their usefulness deteriorates over some 18 months or so, so they generally don't last long in the real world. I've even known some firms actually hire ex Service types to guide them through the tendering process, and it sticks out like a dogs dicky when the tender response is written in JSP101 format and reads like an Air Publication. But, all's fair in love and war I suppose. It's so galling though that it's the taxpayer that always picks up the bill when projects fail.
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Hello all just wanted to get something off my chest. My nom de guerre is the funky munky and I am a Civil Servant. When I joined back in the eighties it I saw it a vocation to serve as I physically couldn't join up (not asking for sympathy so ram it!) nowadays I feel we are lurching from crisis to crisis and the CS is the present Governments whipping boy. Why bother with policies when you can publicly blame your Civil Servants and the Daily Mail will join in with the stoning.
It is my lot in life to ensure that you lovely girls and boys stay safe whilst flying your out of date and wheezing aircraft and get the job done. You can have anything your DEC will pay for and believe me they don't like paying for much. When you put forward a good suggestion there is much sucking of teeth and the statement "Sounds like requirement creep to me!"
For this I get paid the same as a Corporal, now I agree that I do shine a chair sat a desk all day but unless you want to pay 3x the costs by getting the DA involved or placing a staff officer in place again at 3x the cost then we do represent a certain value fo money.
By the way why not ask us when our pay rise will be! The CS are working dilligently despite no repect from the public, comrades or masters, no more money and to cap it all the risk that their jobs will be relocated, downgraded or transferred to the private sector.
One very unhappy chimp indeed.
It is my lot in life to ensure that you lovely girls and boys stay safe whilst flying your out of date and wheezing aircraft and get the job done. You can have anything your DEC will pay for and believe me they don't like paying for much. When you put forward a good suggestion there is much sucking of teeth and the statement "Sounds like requirement creep to me!"
For this I get paid the same as a Corporal, now I agree that I do shine a chair sat a desk all day but unless you want to pay 3x the costs by getting the DA involved or placing a staff officer in place again at 3x the cost then we do represent a certain value fo money.
By the way why not ask us when our pay rise will be! The CS are working dilligently despite no repect from the public, comrades or masters, no more money and to cap it all the risk that their jobs will be relocated, downgraded or transferred to the private sector.
One very unhappy chimp indeed.
Last edited by the funky munky; 9th Oct 2006 at 20:30. Reason: Typos