CS vs. Mil Pay
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funky munky
If you and your colleagues are so dissatisfied with your lot, why not remove the intra venous fortnightly (or is it monthly in the UK) spondulicks drip, quit your sheltered workshop, and try your luck in a real world job?
Or are you so risk adverse, you can’t bear to be parted from the public sector mammary gland?
I'm not normally supportive of the UK Daily Telegraph. But the article at strikes a sympathetic chord in this self employed taxpayer.
If you and your colleagues are so dissatisfied with your lot, why not remove the intra venous fortnightly (or is it monthly in the UK) spondulicks drip, quit your sheltered workshop, and try your luck in a real world job?
Or are you so risk adverse, you can’t bear to be parted from the public sector mammary gland?
I'm not normally supportive of the UK Daily Telegraph. But the article at strikes a sympathetic chord in this self employed taxpayer.
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http://www.dasa.mod.uk/natstats/ukds.../table227.html
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MReyn24050
Equivalent public/civil service ranks!
In my experience that's merely another oxymoron devised by public servants to gain access to the Sgts' and Officers' Messes.
Equivalent public/civil service ranks!
In my experience that's merely another oxymoron devised by public servants to gain access to the Sgts' and Officers' Messes.
I know it is laughable but if one goes by the MoD Manual it is true. See the attached table of equivalent ranks.
http://www.dasa.mod.uk/natstats/ukds.../table227.html
http://www.dasa.mod.uk/natstats/ukds.../table227.html
Thats just for train ticket entitlements and allowances.
C1 & C2 grades appear to be people that just couldn't get any other work.
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Pay Grades
Just to get it right for Beags.
After 10 Years as a Grade D (Ex PTO, EO equiv) my gross pay is £22,400.
I do not know any Grade D earning more that c£27.000.
This is not a moan. If I was that unhappy I would leave immediately.
For me there is more to work than money; Leave, flexi, working environment, travel time to work etc. That said, more money would not go amiss!
I work alongside Chf Tech/Sgt performing the same tasks.
The CS are still awaiting to see what our Aug 06 pay rise will be.
PS Last week we were told by a Vice Admiral that the CS rates of pay are proving to be an obstacle when to recruiting at the Abbeywood site.
'We knew how to moan but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'
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Willi B ..........It also helps people who retire from the service and then walk into CS roles (not that I am disregarding their vast experience). They can then then carry on in the manner to which many of them are accustommed. TH
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I know it is laughable but if one goes by the MoD Manual it is true. See the attached table of equivalent ranks.
http://www.dasa.mod.uk/natstats/ukds.../table227.html
http://www.dasa.mod.uk/natstats/ukds.../table227.html
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The other side however is that the regular servicies need these jobs doing but they have been identified as non-core jobs that do not have to be done by a fully paid-X-factored employee. The operational studies guys at the training establishments are a case in point. They need operational and wide service experience but they do not need to be current or employable operations type.
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Forgive me you are of course correct. However it is still laughable because in reality a C1 Post held by a Civil Servant(CS) in the MoD today is in fact equivalent to a SO2 Post and a C2 Post equivalent to a SO3 Post. i.e. the C1s are in fact holding posts equivalent to Lt Cdrs, Majors or Sqn Ldrs not the equivalent ranks as stated in the MoD Manual. I recall back in 2001 when recruiting a CS for a C2 position within a section where the Head of Section was a Major the Major could not sit as head of the selection board because he did not hold the rank required according to the MoD Manual yet he was going to be his line manager. Whether this is still the situation I am not in a position to confirm.
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The line manager may be an SO2 but if the C2 holds a similar rank in the reserves this requires the agreement of the C2.
I've just been through all this nause. I leave on 30 Nov and start the next day as a simulator instructor at the same place. I will be a C2 CS. All this equivalency crap is just that. I have decided to leave because 25 years in the RAF, two marriages, 14 MQs, a total of 7 years overseas and a very tight No 5 is enough for anyone. I like the job but hate the bull**** so I have taken the option that allows me to keep the good bits and discard the rubbish.
The interview was painful to say the least because they had to find an SO1 equivalent (
) CS to interview me because my Line Manager (Ex student of mine) was of the same status ( 
)
The documentation I have been through is pure torture. Pages and pages of gloop written by god knows who.
I have taken a big drop in earnings (even with pension) but I get the added benefit of regular hours, flexi time etc. It is a good deal and any CS who bleats about how hard they work is talking pure hoop. It's a cushy number and I can't wait.
So there.
The interview was painful to say the least because they had to find an SO1 equivalent (
) CS to interview me because my Line Manager (Ex student of mine) was of the same status ( )The documentation I have been through is pure torture. Pages and pages of gloop written by god knows who.
I have taken a big drop in earnings (even with pension) but I get the added benefit of regular hours, flexi time etc. It is a good deal and any CS who bleats about how hard they work is talking pure hoop. It's a cushy number and I can't wait.
So there.
I'm becoming convinced that certain people are reading this thread, seeing something and hitting "reply" before actually reading further.
I'm not comparing like for like when it comes to C1 / C2's and SO1/SO2's - I pointed out that they are seen as roughly equivalent. What I have already pointed out and will do so again is that the equivalency tables were drawn up in the days when promotion was a lot slower in the CS. Back then you would expect to be promoted to C2 (HEO?) after 8 - 12 years service, and a similar time again to C1(SEO). So in terms of relative experience, back then the average C2 would be roughly as experienced in "the system" as the average SO2 (although once again I fully accept they are not the same thing). Nowadays of course that has changed and people get promoted much faster - see my comments earlier about need to change these tables.
Also once again, given how often the services deride these tables, they're the ones that seem to perpetuate it. I've lost count of the number of courses I've run where they call me Major rather than Mister. I don't want to be called Major as I like people to know that I work for a living
I'm not comparing like for like when it comes to C1 / C2's and SO1/SO2's - I pointed out that they are seen as roughly equivalent. What I have already pointed out and will do so again is that the equivalency tables were drawn up in the days when promotion was a lot slower in the CS. Back then you would expect to be promoted to C2 (HEO?) after 8 - 12 years service, and a similar time again to C1(SEO). So in terms of relative experience, back then the average C2 would be roughly as experienced in "the system" as the average SO2 (although once again I fully accept they are not the same thing). Nowadays of course that has changed and people get promoted much faster - see my comments earlier about need to change these tables.
Also once again, given how often the services deride these tables, they're the ones that seem to perpetuate it. I've lost count of the number of courses I've run where they call me Major rather than Mister. I don't want to be called Major as I like people to know that I work for a living
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I work for a living
I have worked at ABW. Come 1630, you couldn't find a CS anywhere in the place - they were all out the door like a shot. The Mil there stayed until their work for that day was done. Hence it took the CS 3 times as long to get anything done as the Mil.
If MoD CS disappeared overnight, we'd still be able to function - and we'd be able to get things done a damn sight quicker too.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
"That was tongue in cheek, right?
I have worked at ABW. Come 1630, you couldn't find a CS anywhere in the place - they were all out the door like a shot. The Mil there stayed until their work for that day was done. Hence it took the CS 3 times as long to get anything done as the Mil.
If MoD CS disappeared overnight, we'd still be able to function - and we'd be able to get things done a damn sight quicker too."
Yes it was tongue in cheek.
Why shouldnt CS leave at 1630hrs? This is the key difference in the mentality - forces are paid daily (soon to be monthly for JPA) so hours worked are irrelevant - you're paid 24/7 irregardless of being in the field or on leave and weekends. CS are paid to work usually 37 hours a week, and from the average CS's perspective why should they work longer? They won't be paid for it, it won't be appreciated it by anyone, and in mixed offices, it won't stop cheap jibes at the CS by the military. Its perfectly normal in most real world offices outside the military to finish work by 1630 - 1800hrs, depending on when you got there.
(Before you ask though, I do work late, as do many CS in busy environments - its a shame then that we have to get our meetings with the forces held by Thu PM, after all we'd hate to interfere with the sacred business of going home at lunchtime for weekend leave.)
I have worked at ABW. Come 1630, you couldn't find a CS anywhere in the place - they were all out the door like a shot. The Mil there stayed until their work for that day was done. Hence it took the CS 3 times as long to get anything done as the Mil.
If MoD CS disappeared overnight, we'd still be able to function - and we'd be able to get things done a damn sight quicker too."
Yes it was tongue in cheek.
Why shouldnt CS leave at 1630hrs? This is the key difference in the mentality - forces are paid daily (soon to be monthly for JPA) so hours worked are irrelevant - you're paid 24/7 irregardless of being in the field or on leave and weekends. CS are paid to work usually 37 hours a week, and from the average CS's perspective why should they work longer? They won't be paid for it, it won't be appreciated it by anyone, and in mixed offices, it won't stop cheap jibes at the CS by the military. Its perfectly normal in most real world offices outside the military to finish work by 1630 - 1800hrs, depending on when you got there.
(Before you ask though, I do work late, as do many CS in busy environments - its a shame then that we have to get our meetings with the forces held by Thu PM, after all we'd hate to interfere with the sacred business of going home at lunchtime for weekend leave.)
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
"So why would they call you Major if you are just a civvy?"
Because on many army courses, they get the list of names and grades of attendees. They then convert C2 - Major and C1 - Lt Col and go from there.
Frankly its pretty cringeworthy on 2 accounts - listening to a Army guy get stroppy when you ask him not to call you Major - in my case, I asked to be called "Mister" or if he had to call me a military rank, then Lieutenant as thats the rank I've earned through my own efforts. Secondly its pretty dire when you hear f*ckwit CS's happily go round accepting being called Colonel. I despise that as much as the next man.
Because on many army courses, they get the list of names and grades of attendees. They then convert C2 - Major and C1 - Lt Col and go from there.
Frankly its pretty cringeworthy on 2 accounts - listening to a Army guy get stroppy when you ask him not to call you Major - in my case, I asked to be called "Mister" or if he had to call me a military rank, then Lieutenant as thats the rank I've earned through my own efforts. Secondly its pretty dire when you hear f*ckwit CS's happily go round accepting being called Colonel. I despise that as much as the next man.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Had great fun telling his boss I had a commision as well as being a C2.
Just to thread creep this back to BellEndBobs original comments I did a little “digging”. In an unclassified, non-caveated document it outlines that the Civil Service operational deployment allowance consists of two elements – the first is a flat rate £500 per calendar month and the second a variable amount that reflects the relative hardships and privation experienced while on particular deployments (currently between £1250 and £1750 pcm depending on theatre). These are subject to income tax so is likely to be a combined net monthly allowance of £1300 - £1700. It should also be noted that despite being in an operational theatre the working week is still 42hrs with overtime payable thereafter! This can either be claimed hourly, or, if approved a flat rate. This ranges from £1200-£2000 pcm gross, or approx £900-£1500 net. Potentially then an additional £2200-£3200 pcm, or in other words £13.2K-£19.2K for a 6 month det (and btw this figures cover the Balkans theatre as well!). An additional premium is paid if an individual is required to work on a bank holiday whilst deployed. CS are also entitled to an Operational Deployment Grant to cover the purchase of suitable clothes, luggage and personal toiletries that ranges from £180 - £500 (tax free) depending on tour length. On the down side, CS are only entitled to the same OWP as servicemen.
CS union - a job well done! Puts the little over £2K for a 6 month deployment into context (although I appreciate if you take the CS/mil rank equivalents previously quoted as correct then there is a marked difference in basic salary).
Makes you glad you get LSSA . . . . for the time being
CS union - a job well done! Puts the little over £2K for a 6 month deployment into context (although I appreciate if you take the CS/mil rank equivalents previously quoted as correct then there is a marked difference in basic salary).
Makes you glad you get LSSA . . . . for the time being