Nimrod crash in Afghanistan Tech/Info/Discussion (NOT condolences)
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SORRY
OK JHC Command, Herc Fleet and of course Airship in charge of Kipper Fleet - you want to lead, then I trust that you will formally 'spool up' MoD Press Office to give one almighty talking to with all of the media to ensure that in future that families are not left hanging in suspended animation, their breaths held waiting for the Regional Casualty Officer, Padre or nominated representative to knock on the door.
As a generalisation the press/media did not have the full facts (for whatever reason) so they speculated to a degree that was professionally incompetent.
Now I wonder if the news channels and editors will have the strength of character to publicly (i.e. on air) apologise to those Service families that have been effected by todays extremely unprofessional reporting.
I hope that the extra ratings and/or advertising revenue makes them all feel that a job well done.
And after putting that one to bed (in my mind - and yes I have registered my dissatisfaction with the BBC - the news channel that I usually prefer to watch) I now return to the main purpose of my post:
To the families, wives, children,mums and dads, bothers and sisters, loved ones, friends and work colleagues - I am so very sorry and my thoughts are with you.
If there is any consolation the crews of the kipper fleet are doing a very real and worthwhile job in Afghanistan at the moment and I can personally say that I (as well as the AH boys) certainly owe alot of the provision ISTAR and SA to the Nimrod capability (a certain Op will forever stick in my mind!) which hopefully not only has protected other airborne types, but also the lads/lasses on the ground in the Platoon Houses and on the Ops.
I am so very sorry.
As a generalisation the press/media did not have the full facts (for whatever reason) so they speculated to a degree that was professionally incompetent.
Now I wonder if the news channels and editors will have the strength of character to publicly (i.e. on air) apologise to those Service families that have been effected by todays extremely unprofessional reporting.
I hope that the extra ratings and/or advertising revenue makes them all feel that a job well done.
And after putting that one to bed (in my mind - and yes I have registered my dissatisfaction with the BBC - the news channel that I usually prefer to watch) I now return to the main purpose of my post:
To the families, wives, children,mums and dads, bothers and sisters, loved ones, friends and work colleagues - I am so very sorry and my thoughts are with you.
If there is any consolation the crews of the kipper fleet are doing a very real and worthwhile job in Afghanistan at the moment and I can personally say that I (as well as the AH boys) certainly owe alot of the provision ISTAR and SA to the Nimrod capability (a certain Op will forever stick in my mind!) which hopefully not only has protected other airborne types, but also the lads/lasses on the ground in the Platoon Houses and on the Ops.
I am so very sorry.
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Condolences
In the past, following crew losses, someone has compiled the mesages of condolence on the thread and forwarded them to families. The thought behind this thread was to keep our comments about reporting away from the original thread. Could I ask that, if you include messages of condolence here, you copy that portion of your thoughts to the original thread.
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More incompetence - from ITN this time. Take a look at the pic on this website:
http://www.itn.co.uk/news/world_7411...592080529.html
http://www.itn.co.uk/news/world_7411...592080529.html
Join Date: Jan 2004
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I am very annoyed and can't believe that both the MOD and the BBC websites are stupid enough to use the wrong photograph for their articles !!!!! Both are showing R1 aircraft not MR2's. It hardly fills you with confidence that the MOD can get their facts correct.
WTN (Ex 206)
WTN (Ex 206)
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Censorship?
I, like countless others, have been incensed over the thoughtless speculation by the media. Two people who should know better, Ex officers Col Tim Collins and S/L Tom Rounds, both added fuel to the speculative fire by waffling on (on TV) about which type of a/c might be involved. These two should know better. It seems they either don't know, or they don't care, about the pain their words cause!! If people with the experience and background such as these two gentlemen have know no better than to speculate on issues like this then what hope is there that the 'press' will ever realise the pain they cause? Complain to the media as much as you like guys...as I was once told by the editor of the Times...'It sells papers' and they don't care!!
More bang for your buck
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It is in the nature of man to speculate (your civil colleagues do it all the time in R&N) however ill informed that speculation might be, and the news media is no exception. The news media is though, bye and large, responsive to peoples wishes, so had the MOD told the media that it was a Nimrod aircraft and then asked the media not to release that info until the next of kin had been informed, then the media would not have needed to speculate and would have just quoted the request. At least it would have been better for all concerned.
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The Media
I am a civvie (but with many service connections) and follow Pprune avidly. The most recent loss in Afgahnistan has moved me to join and to make a post.
I too have lodged a complaint with the BBC for the unneccessary anguish caused to so many for NO GOOD REASON AT ALL.
I too have lodged a complaint with the BBC for the unneccessary anguish caused to so many for NO GOOD REASON AT ALL.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The news media is though, bye and large, responsive to peoples wishes, so had the MOD told the media that it was a Nimrod aircraft and then asked the media not to release that info until the next of kin had been informed, then the media would not have needed to speculate and would have just quoted the request. At least it would have been better for all concerned.
In fact that is what we were taught. Don't b*llsh*t, don't lie and don't evade.
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The MoD yesterday in its initial briefings would not even confirm if this aircraft was rotary or fixed wing. As it is in the nature of the media to speculate this was not a particularly sensible thing to do.
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Just saw the news conference from Kinloss. In spite of the media relentlessy trying to pin some sort of blame on the entire fleet, continually asking questions about serviceability and whether the fleet would be grounded, both the Stn Cdr and OC 120 Sqn staged a dignified, respectful and honest press conference.
Well done, Sirs, and good luck for the days ahead.
Once again, my thoughts and prayers are with my friends and colleagues at Kinloss.
Well done, Sirs, and good luck for the days ahead.
Once again, my thoughts and prayers are with my friends and colleagues at Kinloss.
Just to move the thread on a bit and you were able to turn back the clock how do you think the BBC should have handled the news?
Do you think they should have said nothing until the type of aircraft was known - bearing in mind that other news agencies would be reporting the story at the same time and, probably, in the same fashion as the BBC did..
Do you think they should have said nothing until the type of aircraft was known - bearing in mind that other news agencies would be reporting the story at the same time and, probably, in the same fashion as the BBC did..
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
The second part is to withdraw credentials from the media that don't play by the rules. Loss of official press releases would put them on the back foot and relying on 'public' transport would be a non-starter.
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Yes i do think the BBC should have held back by saying they did not know what type of A/C was involved!!!, i also felt the news conference was handled Extremely well by the G/C & W/C.. You have my heartfelt support for the days ahead, i collect my paper based on how much is stated fact rather than Speculation, the time i have spare in life is used to glean knowledge, not wasted on Guesswork... I still feel that if the beeb held back then more people would respect their compassion rather than has happened
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Totally concur.... but we can't have our cake and eat it can we....If we ban the press then how can we give a press conference?
We need the press more than they need us and it is beholdant on the MOD press Office to get the facts right before they issue the release.
We need the press more than they need us and it is beholdant on the MOD press Office to get the facts right before they issue the release.
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My heartfelt sympathy goes out to all involved, the RAF aircrew, the RM and Army personnel, their colleagues, friends and families. May they Rest in Peace.
Reading the thread and feeling the same anger as expressed by others towards both the Media and the MOD, and whilst not wishing or attempting to hijack the thread for my own purposes, I feel I have to at last publicise my own experience with the MOD.
I am an ex-serviceman (12 yrs regular service) and in 2003 both my brother and sister-in-law were serving with the Royal Military Police in southern Iraq.
I recieved a telephone call from a somewhat anguished mother during the evening of the murder of the six RMP soldiers, which at that point I was unaware of, not having watched the news that day.
I was the nominated NOK so felt quite satisfied that my brother would not have been involved, however, needed confirmation, particularly for my mother's sake. I don't think I would have the same confidence in the MOD / BBC NOK and reporting chain these days.
I telephoned the MOD Assistance Help-Line and explained the circumstances. The person on the other end said he would check the details. He was gone for a considerable period of time and thinking this information WOULD be at the fingertips of every operator I became increasingly concerned at the delay. He eventually came back and in the most sombre of voices (akin to the visit from the funeral director) he said, "Mr X. I've checked the list and I have to inform you.......(A pause followed of probably no more than a second but what seemed like a lifetime and during which I went through the most gut wrenching turmoil I have ever experienced, without any fear of self contradiction).........that your brother is not on the list of casualties".
Following quick confirmation I went downstairs, feeling physically exhausted and sick, and the look on my face made my partner think the worst.
I telephoned my mother and used a little more tact than the MOD but was hastily reminded that in my somewhat stunned relief I had forgotten to ask about my sister-in-law and had to repeat the exercise, thankfully with a more understanding operator.
I would describe myself as quite pragmatic and not easily upset but this event had a significant effect on me - I still feel quite sick thinking about it now. What sort of effect would it have had on someone given to emotional fragility?
What sort of training do these people receive? Don't they understand what poeple must be going through when they telephone for this information?
Pregnant pauses for effect are really not appreciated and serve no purpose other than to put someone through mental hell, for however short a period.
2close
Reading the thread and feeling the same anger as expressed by others towards both the Media and the MOD, and whilst not wishing or attempting to hijack the thread for my own purposes, I feel I have to at last publicise my own experience with the MOD.
I am an ex-serviceman (12 yrs regular service) and in 2003 both my brother and sister-in-law were serving with the Royal Military Police in southern Iraq.
I recieved a telephone call from a somewhat anguished mother during the evening of the murder of the six RMP soldiers, which at that point I was unaware of, not having watched the news that day.
I was the nominated NOK so felt quite satisfied that my brother would not have been involved, however, needed confirmation, particularly for my mother's sake. I don't think I would have the same confidence in the MOD / BBC NOK and reporting chain these days.
I telephoned the MOD Assistance Help-Line and explained the circumstances. The person on the other end said he would check the details. He was gone for a considerable period of time and thinking this information WOULD be at the fingertips of every operator I became increasingly concerned at the delay. He eventually came back and in the most sombre of voices (akin to the visit from the funeral director) he said, "Mr X. I've checked the list and I have to inform you.......(A pause followed of probably no more than a second but what seemed like a lifetime and during which I went through the most gut wrenching turmoil I have ever experienced, without any fear of self contradiction).........that your brother is not on the list of casualties".
Following quick confirmation I went downstairs, feeling physically exhausted and sick, and the look on my face made my partner think the worst.
I telephoned my mother and used a little more tact than the MOD but was hastily reminded that in my somewhat stunned relief I had forgotten to ask about my sister-in-law and had to repeat the exercise, thankfully with a more understanding operator.
I would describe myself as quite pragmatic and not easily upset but this event had a significant effect on me - I still feel quite sick thinking about it now. What sort of effect would it have had on someone given to emotional fragility?
What sort of training do these people receive? Don't they understand what poeple must be going through when they telephone for this information?
Pregnant pauses for effect are really not appreciated and serve no purpose other than to put someone through mental hell, for however short a period.
2close
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It was revealed last week that the government employ an excessive number of PR people across the board and costing a couple of £billion....some departments were lucky to get a couple of press releases a year from 20 plus staff...