Future Carrier (Including Costs)
Joined: Jun 2009
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From: Baston
It was always a trade off between defined military need and Treasury. Some very clever and devoted Defence staff just about won enough, but by Christmas 1914 the army was in a desperate manpower state.
For ever ............
Joined: Oct 2018
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 12,223
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From: Ferrara
"but by Christmas 1914 the army was in a desperate manpower state."
Yup -my grandfather rejoined the Coldstream's at the age of 33 ( that's about equivalent to 50 today) in Aug '14 - he'd done over 10 years full time back in the 1900's so was fully trained etc etc . On the 29th Oct 1/Coldstream's had been reduced to the Quartermaster (a Lieutenant) and 80 OR at Ypres. He was in the first set of reinforcements - circa 116 men and 2 officers - on the 31st. They lost 50% of the men 2 days later in a German attack. He lasted a month before being wounded - went back, gassed in 1915 and saw most of the war out in a training battalion.
Yup -my grandfather rejoined the Coldstream's at the age of 33 ( that's about equivalent to 50 today) in Aug '14 - he'd done over 10 years full time back in the 1900's so was fully trained etc etc . On the 29th Oct 1/Coldstream's had been reduced to the Quartermaster (a Lieutenant) and 80 OR at Ypres. He was in the first set of reinforcements - circa 116 men and 2 officers - on the 31st. They lost 50% of the men 2 days later in a German attack. He lasted a month before being wounded - went back, gassed in 1915 and saw most of the war out in a training battalion.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 3,788
Likes: 1,205
From: Baston
"but by Christmas 1914 the army was in a desperate manpower state."
Yup -my grandfather rejoined the Coldstream's at the age of 33 ( that's about equivalent to 50 today) in Aug '14 - he'd done over 10 years full time back in the 1900's so was fully trained etc etc . On the 29th Oct 1/Coldstream's had been reduced to the Quartermaster (a Lieutenant) and 80 OR at Ypres. He was in the first set of reinforcements - circa 116 men and 2 officers - on the 31st. They lost 50% of the men 2 days later in a German attack. He lasted a month before being wounded - went back, gassed in 1915 and saw most of the war out in a training battalion.
Yup -my grandfather rejoined the Coldstream's at the age of 33 ( that's about equivalent to 50 today) in Aug '14 - he'd done over 10 years full time back in the 1900's so was fully trained etc etc . On the 29th Oct 1/Coldstream's had been reduced to the Quartermaster (a Lieutenant) and 80 OR at Ypres. He was in the first set of reinforcements - circa 116 men and 2 officers - on the 31st. They lost 50% of the men 2 days later in a German attack. He lasted a month before being wounded - went back, gassed in 1915 and saw most of the war out in a training battalion.
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,980
Likes: 376
From: Hampshire
Deployed on a forward slope, what would Wellington have said. Had the government not disbanded his Peninsular Army (as an 1814 peace dividend) he would have adopted an agressive strategy in 1815. Not the defensive campaign culminating in Waterloo with an.army consisting of large numbers of raw recruits and troops returing from the War of 1812 many of whom were probably originally intended for demobing. His low country allies suffered heavy casualties from artillery deploying on a forward slope not the reverse slope he intended them to.
Back to the 21st century.
Italian carrier Giuseppe Garibaldi tied up on the Victoria Jetty vacated by POW on the 15th; followed by the through deck LPD San Giorgio on the 16th, which is now berthed against North West Wall, presumably both participants in the Maritime Command Livex or another element on Steadfast Defender 2024. (For those wishing overt aviation content there is currently an EH-101 on GG's deck.)
Back to the 21st century.
Italian carrier Giuseppe Garibaldi tied up on the Victoria Jetty vacated by POW on the 15th; followed by the through deck LPD San Giorgio on the 16th, which is now berthed against North West Wall, presumably both participants in the Maritime Command Livex or another element on Steadfast Defender 2024. (For those wishing overt aviation content there is currently an EH-101 on GG's deck.)
Joined: Mar 2006
Aviation Qualifications: Military
Posts: 2,059
Likes: 202
From: sussex
At the risk of 'incoming' does the success of Ukraine's drones against Russian ships not render these large assets as hostages to fortune ? Especially if we cannot support them with the requisite number of 'bodyguards' .
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Joined: Jul 2000
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 24,550
Likes: 7,281
From: Peripatetic
RAF Chinook delivers engineers and support staff of 617 Squadron to @HMSPWLS in preparation for receiving F-35 Jets.
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 75
Likes: 39
From: Devon
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/babc...s-small-as-50/
Babcock plans next-gen frigates with crews as small as 50
Babcock has announced its plans for the Type 32 frigates, which could see the vessels operated with crews as small as 50 sailors.
In a detailed discussion with The Telegraph, John Howie, Babcock’s Chief of Corporate Affairs, shed light on the potential that recent technological advancements hold for reducing the necessary crew size on naval ships.
“People talk about a Type 32 frigate – we like to refer to it as Type 31 batch two. We’re doing a crew of about 105 on Type 31, so realistically we should be aiming to half that number for batch two,” Howie explained….
By significantly reducing the crew size from the current requirement of approximately 105 sailors on the Type 31 frigates, Babcock seems to be recognising that the Royal Navy can no longer jam ships full of people and that recruitment is an issue.
Howie also noted the possibility of further reducing the crew numbers below 50, although he acknowledged the importance of maintaining safety and operational integrity.
Babcock plans next-gen frigates with crews as small as 50
Babcock has announced its plans for the Type 32 frigates, which could see the vessels operated with crews as small as 50 sailors.
In a detailed discussion with The Telegraph, John Howie, Babcock’s Chief of Corporate Affairs, shed light on the potential that recent technological advancements hold for reducing the necessary crew size on naval ships.
“People talk about a Type 32 frigate – we like to refer to it as Type 31 batch two. We’re doing a crew of about 105 on Type 31, so realistically we should be aiming to half that number for batch two,” Howie explained….
By significantly reducing the crew size from the current requirement of approximately 105 sailors on the Type 31 frigates, Babcock seems to be recognising that the Royal Navy can no longer jam ships full of people and that recruitment is an issue.
Howie also noted the possibility of further reducing the crew numbers below 50, although he acknowledged the importance of maintaining safety and operational integrity.
Autonomous systems are great, but cannot completely replace people.
Joined: Aug 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 206
From: SW England
Re the Chinook - a quick off-thread question: what are the requirements for lashing a heli on-deck prior to offloading pax?
I ask because - after the farce where an inexperienced-on-type Sqn Ldr tried lifting the back end of Invincible when he 'forgot' to do the after-landing checks prior to waving in the lashing party (AFCS - 'OFF') - we would have a non-stop badgering from FLYCO on every arrival about checks. I understand their point, as it was only the quick thinking of the No.1 crewman that saved at least one life. As for the now-potentially-damaged Chinook: where would you choose to divert if you were 12nm or so away from West Freugh? That's right - a farmer's field in N Ireland... couldn't make it up.
I ask because - after the farce where an inexperienced-on-type Sqn Ldr tried lifting the back end of Invincible when he 'forgot' to do the after-landing checks prior to waving in the lashing party (AFCS - 'OFF') - we would have a non-stop badgering from FLYCO on every arrival about checks. I understand their point, as it was only the quick thinking of the No.1 crewman that saved at least one life. As for the now-potentially-damaged Chinook: where would you choose to divert if you were 12nm or so away from West Freugh? That's right - a farmer's field in N Ireland... couldn't make it up.
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,617
Likes: 205
From: aus
It wont work, LCS tried it permanent crew of 40 plus up to 30 mission specialists if required, Turned out it wont work so they went to crew of 70, that number 70-100 is the lower level for these sized ships which practicalities will prevent going below
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 216
Likes: 54
From: Somerset
Not only are there fishead watchkeeping ( OOD and PWO ) considerations to add to the DC and cleaning task there is also a service wide need to have enough sea-going billets to produce both Senior Rates and mid-seniority officers. Where will MEO, WEO and their Chief Tiffs come from if there are no sea billets for A M/W EO (D M/W EO idc)?
With 50 ish bodies, and allowing for some dayworkers, you have about 14 or 15 watchkeepers, of all trades, in a 3 watch system and 20 ish if the ship is in permanent Defence Watches.
Babcock are dreaming.
N
With 50 ish bodies, and allowing for some dayworkers, you have about 14 or 15 watchkeepers, of all trades, in a 3 watch system and 20 ish if the ship is in permanent Defence Watches.
Babcock are dreaming.
N
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 809
Likes: 428
From: Portsmouth
Not only are there fishead watchkeeping ( OOD and PWO ) considerations to add to the DC and cleaning task there is also a service wide need to have enough sea-going billets to produce both Senior Rates and mid-seniority officers. Where will MEO, WEO and their Chief Tiffs come from if there are no sea billets for A M/W EO (D M/W EO idc)?
With 50 ish bodies, and allowing for some dayworkers, you have about 14 or 15 watchkeepers, of all trades, in a 3 watch system and 20 ish if the ship is in permanent Defence Watches.
Babcock are dreaming.
N
With 50 ish bodies, and allowing for some dayworkers, you have about 14 or 15 watchkeepers, of all trades, in a 3 watch system and 20 ish if the ship is in permanent Defence Watches.
Babcock are dreaming.
N
None of this is new, YARD were pitching a 50 man frigate in the late 80s, early 90s. Nothing came of it for the exact reasons outlined above.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 129
From: Here
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 216
Likes: 54
From: Somerset
Re the Chinook - a quick off-thread question: what are the requirements for lashing a heli on-deck prior to offloading pax?
I ask because - after the farce where an inexperienced-on-type Sqn Ldr tried lifting the back end of Invincible when he 'forgot' to do the after-landing checks prior to waving in the lashing party (AFCS - 'OFF') - we would have a non-stop badgering from FLYCO on every arrival about checks. I understand their point, as it was only the quick thinking of the No.1 crewman that saved at least one life. As for the now-potentially-damaged Chinook: where would you choose to divert if you were 12nm or so away from West Freugh? That's right - a farmer's field in N Ireland... couldn't make it up.
I ask because - after the farce where an inexperienced-on-type Sqn Ldr tried lifting the back end of Invincible when he 'forgot' to do the after-landing checks prior to waving in the lashing party (AFCS - 'OFF') - we would have a non-stop badgering from FLYCO on every arrival about checks. I understand their point, as it was only the quick thinking of the No.1 crewman that saved at least one life. As for the now-potentially-damaged Chinook: where would you choose to divert if you were 12nm or so away from West Freugh? That's right - a farmer's field in N Ireland... couldn't make it up.
Back in the day, fhe basic principle was that nothing happenened the requisite number of nylon lashings had been fitted. Pilot and Marshaller/FDO would signal prior agreement to the lashing numbers moving in, the idea being that the pilot would have the aircraft in a state to be lashed down. Once lashed, Mum is then free to manoeuvre. The the FDO or marshaller might initiate pax off load by requesting in move of a guide or signal agreement to the pilot request for persons to transit under the disc from the a/c. Both pilot approval/ assent and marshaller/FDO approval assent were needed before movement.
N
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Joined: Jul 2000
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 24,550
Likes: 7,281
From: Peripatetic
🇺🇸 US Los Angeles class SSN heading up the Clyde this morning.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Joined: Jul 2000
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 24,550
Likes: 7,281
From: Peripatetic
Yesterday 8 F-35 jets embarked on @HMSPWLS in the North Sea ahead of exercise #SteadfastDefender2024 in the High North.
This is the first time HMS Prince of Wales has embarked an air group.
11 helicopters also deployed across the Carrier Strike Group.
This is the first time HMS Prince of Wales has embarked an air group.
11 helicopters also deployed across the Carrier Strike Group.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Joined: Jul 2000
Aviation Qualifications: Spotter
Posts: 24,550
Likes: 7,281
From: Peripatetic
The last mission for former BNS Garcia D'Avila (RFA Sir Galahad).
The hull will be sunk in an exercise using Penguin missiles fired from a Seahawk Helicopters and Mk48 torpedoes fired from a submarine.
The ship was towed this Sunday.
The hull will be sunk in an exercise using Penguin missiles fired from a Seahawk Helicopters and Mk48 torpedoes fired from a submarine.
The ship was towed this Sunday.
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 809
Likes: 428
From: Portsmouth
I remember watching that ship launch.....