Parliamentary Questions concerning Hercules Safety
Good luck to nigegilb, chappie and to everyone else involved in the campaign.
May the outcome be favourable!
Shall be watching the TV news today....
May the outcome be favourable!
Shall be watching the TV news today....
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Also here on the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...re/6079524.stm
Good coverage later on HTV West and BBC West as well!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...re/6079524.stm
Good coverage later on HTV West and BBC West as well!
Last edited by BEagle; 24th Oct 2006 at 20:02.
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Well done all - good to see wide media coverage - that keeps the pressure on the MoD.
However, the MoD are claiming that 2 ac are now fitted with ESF - a slight improvement, perhaps but still lamentably slow. This leads me to the following questions which are as yet unanswered :
1. Are the fuel tanks no longer leaking F34 and if so, are the ac 'operational' and in theatre?
2. If not, why not?
3. Are these 2 ac one J and one K, or 2 Ks?
4. If not a J, why not? I am informed they have been 'fragged' for ESF and, apparently, they are doing a lot of work in theatre - so shouldn't these ac be fitted along the same timeframe as the K?
4. By what date is ESF planned to be fitted to the rest of BOTH long-term fleets?
Any ideas?
flipster
However, the MoD are claiming that 2 ac are now fitted with ESF - a slight improvement, perhaps but still lamentably slow. This leads me to the following questions which are as yet unanswered :
1. Are the fuel tanks no longer leaking F34 and if so, are the ac 'operational' and in theatre?
2. If not, why not?
3. Are these 2 ac one J and one K, or 2 Ks?
4. If not a J, why not? I am informed they have been 'fragged' for ESF and, apparently, they are doing a lot of work in theatre - so shouldn't these ac be fitted along the same timeframe as the K?
4. By what date is ESF planned to be fitted to the rest of BOTH long-term fleets?
Any ideas?
flipster
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It is being reported that we the crew of the nimrod died because of a fuel/air explosion in the fuselage. The explosion may have been caused by a fractured fuel pipe. This is terrible news but it highlights why this camapaign is so important. Over 50% of combat losses in Vietnam were reportedly caused by fuel/air explosions. In this case it looks as though the source of the explosion was the fuselage, so fuel tank protection might not have helped but it highlights the need for every Herc and every military aircraft to have this protection.
Fuel leak blamed for Nimrod disaster
Michael Smith
AN RAF Nimrod spy plane that crashed in Afghanistan last month killing all 14 men on board broke up in mid-air after a fractured fuel line set off explosions, an official inquiry has found.
The Nimrod MR2, which was providing intelligence for a Nato operation against Taliban fighters west of Kandahar, had just refuelled at 22,000ft.
Sources have disclosed that an RAF board of inquiry’s preliminary report has found that the fuel line fractured either as the Nimrod MR2 was being refuelled or shortly afterwards.
Fuel and vapour that leaked into the bottom of the fuselage then caught fire, possibly because of an electrical fault. Enemy fire has been ruled out as a cause.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...426971,00.html
Fuel leak blamed for Nimrod disaster
Michael Smith
AN RAF Nimrod spy plane that crashed in Afghanistan last month killing all 14 men on board broke up in mid-air after a fractured fuel line set off explosions, an official inquiry has found.
The Nimrod MR2, which was providing intelligence for a Nato operation against Taliban fighters west of Kandahar, had just refuelled at 22,000ft.
Sources have disclosed that an RAF board of inquiry’s preliminary report has found that the fuel line fractured either as the Nimrod MR2 was being refuelled or shortly afterwards.
Fuel and vapour that leaked into the bottom of the fuselage then caught fire, possibly because of an electrical fault. Enemy fire has been ruled out as a cause.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...426971,00.html
Last edited by nigegilb; 29th Oct 2006 at 08:08.
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i remember my heart stopping on the day of the nimrod crash. i know that the reality of deaths because of ac being flogged beyond their lifespan is all too real and hopefully my message to the government underlines the need for proper protection and equipment..as a basic in order to be adequate, not the best just adequate. i am in contact with nimrod families. i know through them and the media contacts that i have that these families are already speaking out about their concerns that had been voiced and ignored. how many more lives have to be ripped apart and destroyed.
i have had contact from no. 10 stating that i am to expect a letter from a minister from the MoD. now somehow i doubt very much it will be des browne. the man i initially placed the petition to as he continued to ignore me, it went to blair. his government, his to sort. they still fear the and ignore the fact that i have thrown down the gauntlet as it were and stated that i will meet with them.i await without baited breath at the staid, run of the mill response from the ministry. the pain still raw i'll continue to feel, the desperation at this situation part of every day. i have and wil continue to try my best for you alll, i only hope i do not fail /will not fail you.
i have had contact from no. 10 stating that i am to expect a letter from a minister from the MoD. now somehow i doubt very much it will be des browne. the man i initially placed the petition to as he continued to ignore me, it went to blair. his government, his to sort. they still fear the and ignore the fact that i have thrown down the gauntlet as it were and stated that i will meet with them.i await without baited breath at the staid, run of the mill response from the ministry. the pain still raw i'll continue to feel, the desperation at this situation part of every day. i have and wil continue to try my best for you alll, i only hope i do not fail /will not fail you.
1. Are the fuel tanks no longer leaking F34 and if so, are the ac 'operational' and in theatre?
2. If not, why not?
3. Are these 2 ac one J and one K, or 2 Ks?
4. If not a J, why not? I am informed they have been 'fragged' for ESF and, apparently, they are doing a lot of work in theatre - so shouldn't these ac be fitted along the same timeframe as the K?
4. By what date is ESF planned to be fitted to the rest of BOTH long-term fleets?
2. If not, why not?
3. Are these 2 ac one J and one K, or 2 Ks?
4. If not a J, why not? I am informed they have been 'fragged' for ESF and, apparently, they are doing a lot of work in theatre - so shouldn't these ac be fitted along the same timeframe as the K?
4. By what date is ESF planned to be fitted to the rest of BOTH long-term fleets?
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thanks chugalug, i'm in the throws at the moment in trying to organise a weekend of rememberance for myself and my parents, although as you say every minute of every day is a remeberance. so far myself, my mum and my 5 yr old daughter (who's birthday it was when the crash happened ) are coming to london to have a moment of quiet reflection at the cenotaph for those lost and those of you who continue to fight the good fight day after day. on sunday we will go to our local military ceremony as a family and have a small ceremony. there will no doubt be tears a plenty but there will be laughter too, i am determind for that. thankyou all who continue to support and help you will all be in my thoughts and continue to stsy safe.
campaign update. there is none. i'm still waiting to hear from the unnamed face at whitehall upon bliars instruction. still the man cannot write to me despite the correspondence he has recieved and the fact that i've been at his door twice now. i am afraid that this has gone as far as it can go, but i don't want them to feel as though they have won. i recently did a tribute to bob on news 24. i recieved the dvd today and with it a letter. it sasid that the head of the bbc news, huw edwards, and various editors and producers were moved to tears after seeing it. i plan to send a copy of that letter and the dvd to blair to see what if anything he has to say then. i just need help in copying the dvd. is there anyone who can help?
it was suggested the other day that we ought to approach the parents of those who still fly on the hercules to add more power and a stronger voice behind the campaign. i think this is a very good idea, can any of you help? is there anything that you need doing that has not been done yet? please tell me.
inquest update....there is none! well except that we have been contacted by the solicitor to say that the coroner has requested a list of clients as he may do a pre inquest review which indicates that the case is of more significant complexity than is presented. this i think can only be good. it's not as cut and dried as the MoD are deluding themselves into. it never was!
campaign update. there is none. i'm still waiting to hear from the unnamed face at whitehall upon bliars instruction. still the man cannot write to me despite the correspondence he has recieved and the fact that i've been at his door twice now. i am afraid that this has gone as far as it can go, but i don't want them to feel as though they have won. i recently did a tribute to bob on news 24. i recieved the dvd today and with it a letter. it sasid that the head of the bbc news, huw edwards, and various editors and producers were moved to tears after seeing it. i plan to send a copy of that letter and the dvd to blair to see what if anything he has to say then. i just need help in copying the dvd. is there anyone who can help?
it was suggested the other day that we ought to approach the parents of those who still fly on the hercules to add more power and a stronger voice behind the campaign. i think this is a very good idea, can any of you help? is there anything that you need doing that has not been done yet? please tell me.
inquest update....there is none! well except that we have been contacted by the solicitor to say that the coroner has requested a list of clients as he may do a pre inquest review which indicates that the case is of more significant complexity than is presented. this i think can only be good. it's not as cut and dried as the MoD are deluding themselves into. it never was!
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Hi guys,
Still here monitoring the situation. The 2nd Herc was due recently, so far 2xK models. The Js should be coming on stream as well. I don't think there is any particular order, as they go into Marshalls they get fixed up. I have been assured that the pace of fitment will pick up over the coming weeks, something like 2/3rds of the entire fleet will be fitted with ESF.
The Swindon Coroner only received the file from the MoD in July he has indicated that he will announce a date for the Inquest just as soon as he can. He has not received any extra money from the Govt unlike the Oxford Coroner. He would not say if the Inquest will be heard before Christmas.
On the whole pretty good news, there is a possibility of a second line to fit ESF don't know if anything else has been done on that front recently. I really think that if AOC 2 Gp and the MoD would be more open with the program people would be much happier. I have been assured that there is a big push behind this program, unfortunately there is very little info being released to the public.
Chappie maybe you could post your CD on You tube??
A final thought for the Nimrod crew. It has been reported that this ac was brought down by a fuel fire/explosion. Nimrod aircrew contacted me earlier in the year with concerns about a lack of fuel tank protection on their ac. If we can help in any way would be glad to do so.
Still here monitoring the situation. The 2nd Herc was due recently, so far 2xK models. The Js should be coming on stream as well. I don't think there is any particular order, as they go into Marshalls they get fixed up. I have been assured that the pace of fitment will pick up over the coming weeks, something like 2/3rds of the entire fleet will be fitted with ESF.
The Swindon Coroner only received the file from the MoD in July he has indicated that he will announce a date for the Inquest just as soon as he can. He has not received any extra money from the Govt unlike the Oxford Coroner. He would not say if the Inquest will be heard before Christmas.
On the whole pretty good news, there is a possibility of a second line to fit ESF don't know if anything else has been done on that front recently. I really think that if AOC 2 Gp and the MoD would be more open with the program people would be much happier. I have been assured that there is a big push behind this program, unfortunately there is very little info being released to the public.
Chappie maybe you could post your CD on You tube??
A final thought for the Nimrod crew. It has been reported that this ac was brought down by a fuel fire/explosion. Nimrod aircrew contacted me earlier in the year with concerns about a lack of fuel tank protection on their ac. If we can help in any way would be glad to do so.
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Nige,
Thanks for the update......slow progress would be an understatement!!!
" Beggars cannot be choosers" is, perhaps, an apt quote?
Have they stopped the fuel leaks?
Flip
I am sure many other fleets are similarly under-protected. One hopes their IPTs (Integrated Project Teams) are thinking very carefully.
Thanks for the update......slow progress would be an understatement!!!
" Beggars cannot be choosers" is, perhaps, an apt quote?
Have they stopped the fuel leaks?
Flip
I am sure many other fleets are similarly under-protected. One hopes their IPTs (Integrated Project Teams) are thinking very carefully.
Nige, many thanks for the update from me as well. If it wasn't for your special knowledge of this issue and the developments that occur (albeit painfully slowly), we'd all be in the dark! Let us hope that the rate does indeed pick up. Keep up the good work, and when this programme is complete your role as principle catalyst should be acclaimed by all!
Chappie, all our thoughts will be with you, your family, and all the other families, on this special weekend! It will be painful and raw, I am sure. But as you say, time also for a smile, even a laugh, as you all bear witness to the very humanity of those you have lost. Be strong, as always. You are an inspiration to everyone!
Chappie, all our thoughts will be with you, your family, and all the other families, on this special weekend! It will be painful and raw, I am sure. But as you say, time also for a smile, even a laugh, as you all bear witness to the very humanity of those you have lost. Be strong, as always. You are an inspiration to everyone!
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Still shortages of operational equipment
A member of the RAF, has posted on the C130 Hercules Headquarters web site.
On his airplane at least, which is operating you know where, they carry a spare wheel, which is a sound idea, but the RAF has run out of jacks, which would enable him to change this.
This means that the airplane and its crew, is faced with great risk of being damaged or worst, whilst they borrow the gear to change a wheel.
He is threatening to use his government credit card, to overcome the problem.
For crying out, do the situations get out of control.
Col
PS cost of jack is $6000, cost of airplane and or crew, well who can really figure the true costing.
On his airplane at least, which is operating you know where, they carry a spare wheel, which is a sound idea, but the RAF has run out of jacks, which would enable him to change this.
This means that the airplane and its crew, is faced with great risk of being damaged or worst, whilst they borrow the gear to change a wheel.
He is threatening to use his government credit card, to overcome the problem.
For crying out, do the situations get out of control.
Col
PS cost of jack is $6000, cost of airplane and or crew, well who can really figure the true costing.
Clearly nowhere nice - or they would have needed to change a wheel by now.....
Reminds me of a Vulcan which went tits up in Hickalulu with a hydraulic snag. Crew was told to wait for some more of Auntie Betty's finest reserve special Cold War hydraulic fluid to be sent out on a DAC flight from the UK.....
They didn't query the signal, just waited.....and waited....
Reminds me of a Vulcan which went tits up in Hickalulu with a hydraulic snag. Crew was told to wait for some more of Auntie Betty's finest reserve special Cold War hydraulic fluid to be sent out on a DAC flight from the UK.....
They didn't query the signal, just waited.....and waited....
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Mainwheel jack
Hello all, hello Herkman, that's me on the C130 Hercules website.
Stop Start thanks for clarifying that matter.....
and fondest regards from me on a States trip, (Capped Actuals)
Haven't used the credit card yet, trying to work out how to fiddle a receipt for a ride on lawnmower.
Stop Start thanks for clarifying that matter.....
and fondest regards from me on a States trip, (Capped Actuals)
Haven't used the credit card yet, trying to work out how to fiddle a receipt for a ride on lawnmower.
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Don't know if I am raising false hope here, but just received this intriguing answer from Ingram.
Hercules Aircraft
Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make it his policy not to use Hercules aircraft which have not been fitted with (a) the latest generation defensive aids suite and (b) foam in the wing tanks in (i) Iraq and (ii) Afghanistan; and if he will make a statement. [57160]
Mr. Ingram: The Ministry of Defence policy is to offer our aircraft, crews and passengers a level of protection commensurate with the risk of the operational tasking. For aircraft, this involves a mix of threat mitigation measures, which can include defensive aids. It is, nevertheless, an inescapable fact that operational flying can never be a risk free activity.
With respect to Hercules aircraft, or indeed any other aircraft, I am not prepared to disclose specific details of defensive aid fitment as this might prejudice the operational security of our armed forces.
I announced on 18 April this year that we will be fitting some of our Hercules aircraft with explosion suppressant foam. I can now say that two aircraft have been fitted with explosion suppressant foam, and the programme continues as planned to fit the remaining aircraft.
It is the usual guff, but the very last sentence refers to fitting foam to the remaining aircraft. Not sure if he means the remaining aircraft on the program or the whole fleet. There have been no announcements to suggest that the whole fleet will get foam but an awful lot of pressure has been applied. Not from James Gray it has to be said...
I will make some enquiries and try and clarify the situation.
Hercules Aircraft
Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence if he will make it his policy not to use Hercules aircraft which have not been fitted with (a) the latest generation defensive aids suite and (b) foam in the wing tanks in (i) Iraq and (ii) Afghanistan; and if he will make a statement. [57160]
Mr. Ingram: The Ministry of Defence policy is to offer our aircraft, crews and passengers a level of protection commensurate with the risk of the operational tasking. For aircraft, this involves a mix of threat mitigation measures, which can include defensive aids. It is, nevertheless, an inescapable fact that operational flying can never be a risk free activity.
With respect to Hercules aircraft, or indeed any other aircraft, I am not prepared to disclose specific details of defensive aid fitment as this might prejudice the operational security of our armed forces.
I announced on 18 April this year that we will be fitting some of our Hercules aircraft with explosion suppressant foam. I can now say that two aircraft have been fitted with explosion suppressant foam, and the programme continues as planned to fit the remaining aircraft.
It is the usual guff, but the very last sentence refers to fitting foam to the remaining aircraft. Not sure if he means the remaining aircraft on the program or the whole fleet. There have been no announcements to suggest that the whole fleet will get foam but an awful lot of pressure has been applied. Not from James Gray it has to be said...
I will make some enquiries and try and clarify the situation.
Hercules Aircraft
It is the usual guff, but the very last sentence refers to fitting foam to the remaining aircraft. Not sure if he means the remaining aircraft on the program or the whole fleet. There have been no announcements to suggest that the whole fleet will get foam but an awful lot of pressure has been applied. Not from James Gray it has to be said...
I will make some enquiries and try and clarify the situation.
It is the usual guff, but the very last sentence refers to fitting foam to the remaining aircraft. Not sure if he means the remaining aircraft on the program or the whole fleet. There have been no announcements to suggest that the whole fleet will get foam but an awful lot of pressure has been applied. Not from James Gray it has to be said...
I will make some enquiries and try and clarify the situation.
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Chug, I have heard enough guff from this man to last a lifetime, but I am checking it out all the same time. I won't be bothering with my local MP James Gray, I have asked another MP to make an enquiry on my behalf. I am sure the MoD would be very embarrassed if they had to explain why all the fleet now needed foam. Remember the original plan was for 5 ac.
Further good news RE. A400M. I understand that funding has now been approved for the DAS and positive pressure gas inerting system for the whole fleet. That is what I think is happening anyway.
I absolutely agree with your comments about fuel tank protection for all military aircraft. We have lost 4 aircraft in recent months. All to explosions of one form or another, who knows how many might have been saved by fuel tank protection, American research suggests 50% of combat losses are caused by fuel tank explosions.
Thanks again for the support of everyone.
Further good news RE. A400M. I understand that funding has now been approved for the DAS and positive pressure gas inerting system for the whole fleet. That is what I think is happening anyway.
I absolutely agree with your comments about fuel tank protection for all military aircraft. We have lost 4 aircraft in recent months. All to explosions of one form or another, who knows how many might have been saved by fuel tank protection, American research suggests 50% of combat losses are caused by fuel tank explosions.
Thanks again for the support of everyone.
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I wish you every sucess in your quest, but having had 14 years in blue I can't help thinking that the "Tombstone Imperative" is going to play a very large part.