Parliamentary Questions concerning Hercules Safety
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Just a thought for all the guys and gals 'doing the business' for His Majesty, Tony the First.
It never actually occurred to me when I was dutifully serving Our King but what exactly would your family get should you 'buy the farm' whilst on duty in the sandpit?..........It is rumoured to be 'next to f@ck all'.
Therefore, I heartily recommend you investigate your own circumstances and think long and hard before you go 'sausage-side' next time.
Flip
It never actually occurred to me when I was dutifully serving Our King but what exactly would your family get should you 'buy the farm' whilst on duty in the sandpit?..........It is rumoured to be 'next to f@ck all'.
Therefore, I heartily recommend you investigate your own circumstances and think long and hard before you go 'sausage-side' next time.
Flip
Just following on from Flipsters comments above. If you are divorced and have children which you love and care for and financially support – look carefully into how you would continue to offer financial support should something happen to you. I don’t think this is the place to comment further but just food for thought.
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Just following on from Flipsters comments above. If you are divorced and have children which you love and care for and financially support – look carefully into how you would continue to offer financial support should something happen to you. I don’t think this is the place to comment further but just food for thought.
Does anyone know of an insurnace company that will offer me a policy? Just rang round a few insurance companies, apparently I am uninsurable?!?!
Oh, is it true that as aircrew, the RAF will cover a percentage of life insurance costs, or is this just a rumour? (This is PPrune after all!!)
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http://www.forcesfinancial.com/life/index.asp
Don 't forget you can claim back upto 90% of increased premium cost over a person in a normal lifestyle.
All details in the JPA JSP's with a claim form.
I'm not at work at the moment so can't give you the correct JSP and Annex.
Don 't forget you can claim back upto 90% of increased premium cost over a person in a normal lifestyle.
All details in the JPA JSP's with a claim form.
I'm not at work at the moment so can't give you the correct JSP and Annex.
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http://www.forcesfinancial.com/life/index.asp
Don 't forget you can claim back upto 90% of increased premium cost over a person in a normal lifestyle.
All details in the JPA JSP's with a claim form.
I'm not at work at the moment so can't give you the correct JSP and Annex.
Don 't forget you can claim back upto 90% of increased premium cost over a person in a normal lifestyle.
All details in the JPA JSP's with a claim form.
I'm not at work at the moment so can't give you the correct JSP and Annex.
Up to 10 transports will need refurbishment to reach planned out-of-service date
An interesting article in this week's Flight at http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...F+C-130Ks.html :
UK MoD looks to fund wing upgrade for RAF C-130Ks
By Craig Hoyle
Up to 10 transports will need refurbishment to reach planned out-of-service date
The UK Ministry of Defence must fund a refurbishment project for the outer wings of up to 10 of the Royal Air Force's 24 Lockheed Martin C-130Ks if the tactical transports are to achieve their planned out-of-service date, according to a new solicitation document released by the UK Defence Logistics Organisation (DLO).
Expected to be retired from 2010-12 and replaced by 25 Airbus Military A400Ms, the RAF's C-130K fleet entered service from 1966 and is currently employed supporting operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. Manufactured to Lockheed's C-130E standard, the type's outer wings underwent refurbishment by Marshall Aerospace in the 1970s, but the DLO says that "between five and 10 sets of wings now require further refurbishment to reach the aircraft out-of-service date". This stems from "an increased rate of outer wing fatigue experienced during recent operations," it adds.
The new work package is unrelated to an ongoing safety upgrade initiated following the combat loss of RAF C-130K XV179 over Iraq in January 2005. An undisclosed number of the UK's Hercules are being equipped with explosion-suppressant foam to prevent a fuel-air explosion should a fire affect their wing fuel tanks, and the first modified aircraft has already been returned to service. Conducted at Marshall Aerospace's Cambridge airport site for an estimated unit cost of £600,000 ($1.1 million), the work involves accessing the outer wing box area.
The DLO says: "The [outer wing box] work will include salvage and re-use of existing wing components such as flaps, leading edges and wing tips where possible." Secondhand and new wing boxes could also be acquired, it says. Expressions of interest are sought by 18 October from companies qualified to conduct the refurbishment. A formal invitation to tender will be issued around 20 November, with responses due by 20 December. The project will cost an estimated £20-100 million and take between 18-24 months to complete, the DLO says.
• Northrop Grumman will open a new diagnostic and engineering support centre in Chester, Cheshire late next month to provide enhanced in-country support for the directional infrared countermeasures equipment used to protect RAF transports, including the Boeing C-17 and Lockheed C-130K and TriStar.
Northrop says the measure will "increase responsiveness to support issues" which arise during the system's operational use.
Hang on a minute..... "An undisclosed number of the UK's Hercules are being equipped with explosion-suppressant foam....."
Why is this modification not being embodied on ALL Uk Hercules?
UK MoD looks to fund wing upgrade for RAF C-130Ks
By Craig Hoyle
Up to 10 transports will need refurbishment to reach planned out-of-service date
The UK Ministry of Defence must fund a refurbishment project for the outer wings of up to 10 of the Royal Air Force's 24 Lockheed Martin C-130Ks if the tactical transports are to achieve their planned out-of-service date, according to a new solicitation document released by the UK Defence Logistics Organisation (DLO).
Expected to be retired from 2010-12 and replaced by 25 Airbus Military A400Ms, the RAF's C-130K fleet entered service from 1966 and is currently employed supporting operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. Manufactured to Lockheed's C-130E standard, the type's outer wings underwent refurbishment by Marshall Aerospace in the 1970s, but the DLO says that "between five and 10 sets of wings now require further refurbishment to reach the aircraft out-of-service date". This stems from "an increased rate of outer wing fatigue experienced during recent operations," it adds.
The new work package is unrelated to an ongoing safety upgrade initiated following the combat loss of RAF C-130K XV179 over Iraq in January 2005. An undisclosed number of the UK's Hercules are being equipped with explosion-suppressant foam to prevent a fuel-air explosion should a fire affect their wing fuel tanks, and the first modified aircraft has already been returned to service. Conducted at Marshall Aerospace's Cambridge airport site for an estimated unit cost of £600,000 ($1.1 million), the work involves accessing the outer wing box area.
The DLO says: "The [outer wing box] work will include salvage and re-use of existing wing components such as flaps, leading edges and wing tips where possible." Secondhand and new wing boxes could also be acquired, it says. Expressions of interest are sought by 18 October from companies qualified to conduct the refurbishment. A formal invitation to tender will be issued around 20 November, with responses due by 20 December. The project will cost an estimated £20-100 million and take between 18-24 months to complete, the DLO says.
• Northrop Grumman will open a new diagnostic and engineering support centre in Chester, Cheshire late next month to provide enhanced in-country support for the directional infrared countermeasures equipment used to protect RAF transports, including the Boeing C-17 and Lockheed C-130K and TriStar.
Northrop says the measure will "increase responsiveness to support issues" which arise during the system's operational use.
Hang on a minute..... "An undisclosed number of the UK's Hercules are being equipped with explosion-suppressant foam....."
Why is this modification not being embodied on ALL Uk Hercules?
Last edited by BEagle; 17th Oct 2006 at 13:45.
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Beags, I have established the current number of C130's programmed for foam (I think). The program is being paid for through UOR funding and so not all Hercs will get the conversion. I will not give a breakdown here, but I understand that every Herc currently earmarked for ops in Iraq and Afg will eventually get foam. The final figure is around 2/3rds of the fleet. Not bad when you consider that the original program was for 5 x airframes, but short of what many people, including the Defence Committee, would like to see.
Hope this helps.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by nigegilb; 17th Oct 2006 at 14:00.
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FF I think the RAF and MoD response to fuel tank protection has been woeful. It is as though TWA 800 never happened. VC10s and Tri stars should be fitted with fuel tank protection as a matter of priority. The debate has turned to airliners in the US because military aircraft are considered to be highly vulnerable to fuel tank explosions and are already protected.
Bit of good news is armour for the VC10, 12 Oct 06. See below. More power to this thread.
Flight decks on the RAF’s 10 VC10 CMk1Ks air transport aircraft have been protected by a combination of steel and Kevlar armour.
Revealing Colours: a VC10 of 101 Squadron celebrates 40 years of continuous RAF service
The modification to the aircraft, which risk hostile fire from the ground when they fly into the Gulf area, has been completed through the Air Refuelling and Communications IPT.
Armour must defeat incoming fire and protect the aircrew but must not interfere with the safe operation and handling, including maintenance, of the aircraft. It must also be viable for the long term.
With these factors in mind, the VC10 branch of the IPT has carefully modified the inside of the flight deck. Armoured steel plating is installed under the floor, seating and forward bulkheads, with Kevlar tiles in sealed packs arranged in modular patterns to fit the arrangement of the flight deck and applied to the steel plating.
The armour provides more than 95 per cent protection against ground-based hostile fire and aircrews can vary the level of protection they carry according to need.
Gp Capt Peter Ewen, IPT leader, said:
“This critical operational requirement was carried out in very short order, and to excellent effect and at minimal cost. It’s a prime example of responsive support to front line customers.
“Such a requirement is a timely reminder of the seriousness of the operations being undertaken by our fleets.”
Bit of good news is armour for the VC10, 12 Oct 06. See below. More power to this thread.
Flight decks on the RAF’s 10 VC10 CMk1Ks air transport aircraft have been protected by a combination of steel and Kevlar armour.
Revealing Colours: a VC10 of 101 Squadron celebrates 40 years of continuous RAF service
The modification to the aircraft, which risk hostile fire from the ground when they fly into the Gulf area, has been completed through the Air Refuelling and Communications IPT.
Armour must defeat incoming fire and protect the aircrew but must not interfere with the safe operation and handling, including maintenance, of the aircraft. It must also be viable for the long term.
With these factors in mind, the VC10 branch of the IPT has carefully modified the inside of the flight deck. Armoured steel plating is installed under the floor, seating and forward bulkheads, with Kevlar tiles in sealed packs arranged in modular patterns to fit the arrangement of the flight deck and applied to the steel plating.
The armour provides more than 95 per cent protection against ground-based hostile fire and aircrews can vary the level of protection they carry according to need.
Gp Capt Peter Ewen, IPT leader, said:
“This critical operational requirement was carried out in very short order, and to excellent effect and at minimal cost. It’s a prime example of responsive support to front line customers.
“Such a requirement is a timely reminder of the seriousness of the operations being undertaken by our fleets.”
Last edited by nigegilb; 17th Oct 2006 at 20:26.
Nige, FF is quite right. there has to be a complete shift in thinking in MOD policy. Peacetime programmes that take decades to implement in incremental packets, and which can be reduced, stopped or even put into reverse are totally inappropriate now that we are at war. Moreover we are at war as a direct result of the policy of this Government. If they now feel that the cost in lives and material is excessive then their policy was irresponsible and foolhardy. Either withdraw now and take the political fallout that follows or go all out to win. Any other course will be disastrous. As far as the subject of this thread is concerned, commit expenditure to protect ALL the AT fleet with ESF now, then go on by protecting every other operational aircraft in the UK military fleet using the appropriate technology. Start procuring off the shelf additions to the SH, AH and CAS fleets that can go straight into service without complex British mods! Attend to the urgent operational requirements of the other services as well. Stop the haemorrageing of manpower from the Forces by offering decent pay and conditions and a career that will not be cut short by the ever contracting effects of cuts. If any of this is out of the question then pull out now, otherwise payup!
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Following the revelations that a Herc pilot made his own presentation to 47 Sqn outlining the urgent need to have foam fitted to SF Hercs in 2002 this PQ was asked.
Hercules Aircraft
Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what representations were received by his Department concerning the vulnerability of the fuel tanks of Hercules aircraft prior to January 2005, with particular reference to (a) 47 Squadron in 2002 and (b) the period before and after the Falkland's war; and if he will make a statement. [92693]
Mr. Ingram: I will write to the hon. Member and place a copy of my letter in the Library of the House.
Anyone know how to get the answer from the library?
Hercules Aircraft
Mr. Hancock: To ask the Secretary of State for Defence what representations were received by his Department concerning the vulnerability of the fuel tanks of Hercules aircraft prior to January 2005, with particular reference to (a) 47 Squadron in 2002 and (b) the period before and after the Falkland's war; and if he will make a statement. [92693]
Mr. Ingram: I will write to the hon. Member and place a copy of my letter in the Library of the House.
Anyone know how to get the answer from the library?
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Written Answers
Nigegilb
I have just found these pages, but the last reply is dated 4 Sep 06. No doubt the relevant questions/answers will appear in time.
http://www.publications.parliament.u...1018.html#wa-1
and
http://www.publications.parliament.u...ex/60904-x.htm
'We knew how to whinge but we kept it in the NAAFI bar.'
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two things chaps and chapettes, we are very close to the petition being handed in to downing street, on tues in fact. keep an eye on the local media and national press etc. last check on the petition showed 2848 signatures.
i was recommended a very good and eye opening book about waste in the armed forces. it's by lewis page who is ex military and is called lions donkeys and dinosaurs which discusses waste and blundering in the armed forces. i have bought it and it's well worth a read.
the fight will continue for all hercules to be protected.
i was recommended a very good and eye opening book about waste in the armed forces. it's by lewis page who is ex military and is called lions donkeys and dinosaurs which discusses waste and blundering in the armed forces. i have bought it and it's well worth a read.
the fight will continue for all hercules to be protected.
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The foam fit might have also saved hard $$$$$$
How £1m bribe cash for Afghan warlords went up in smoke
A secret slush fund of more than £1million sent to Afghan-istan to bribe local warlords was destroyed when the Special Forces aircraft carrying it burst into flames as it came in to land.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770
How £1m bribe cash for Afghan warlords went up in smoke
A secret slush fund of more than £1million sent to Afghan-istan to bribe local warlords was destroyed when the Special Forces aircraft carrying it burst into flames as it came in to land.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770
two things chaps and chapettes, we are very close to the petition being handed in to downing street, on tues in fact. keep an eye on the local media and national press etc. last check on the petition showed 2848 signatures.
the fight will continue for all hercules to be protected.
the fight will continue for all hercules to be protected.
Chug
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Big day tomorrow for the families. I would like to wish you the very best of luck.
Crash families take protest to Number 10
Servicemen's relatives in safety call
Julie Hemmings
FAMILIES of servicemen killed when their aircraft was shot down over Iraq travel to Downing Street tomorrow to demand safety improvements which might have saved the lives of their loved ones.
Nearly two years after the Hercules crash which claimed the lives of nine British servicemen – four of them from Yorkshire – their families say protection for the aeroplane's fuel tanks has yet to be fitted to any Hercules, despite the aircraft's continuing use in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Richard and Pauline Stead, whose son, David, was captain of the aircraft, will travel from their Yorkshire home to hand in the 3,000-signature petition calling for explosion suppressant foam (ESF) to be installed in every aircraft in the Hercules fleet.
The move was recommended last December by the board of inquiry set up to investigate the crash, on January 30 last year, which was the single biggest loss of British forces in Iraq since the invasion began.
Flight Lieutenant David Stead, 35, a father of two from Burley-in-Wharfedale, died with all those on board – including Master Engineer Gary Nicholson, of Hull, Flight Lieutenant Andrew Smith, born in Doncaster, and York-born Flight Sergeant Mark Gibson – when the Hercules C130K was hit by a missile north-west of Baghdad.
The petition, addressed to Prime Minister Tony Blair and Defence Secretary Des Browne, has been signed by serving and former armed forces personnel, as well as civilians.
It was organised by Sarah Chapman, whose brother, Sergeant Robert O'Connor, also died in the crash.
"From what we are led to understand, it seems there still isn't one Hercules in operation that is fitted and serviceable with ESF, and that these aircraft are still operating in theatre in areas of insurgency in both Iraq and Afghanistan," Mr Stead said.
In August an all-party Defence Committee backed the recommendation in a critical report about the under-equipping of British forces and demanded the MoD fits ESF to all Hercules planes.
The board of inquiry had heard the protective system was fitted on American, Australian and some European aeroplanes but had not been a priority for British aircraft.
The bereaved families believe this was for cost reasons and want to raise the matter at the forthcoming inquest into the men's deaths.
However, the MoD has refused to pay for their legal representation at the inquest, a decision which angered the families, particularly as the widow of an Australian serviceman, Flight Lieutenant Paul Pardoel, also on board the Hercules, was automatically given legal representation by the Australian Air Force.
The other British servicemen killed in the crash were Squadron Leader Patrick Marshall, Chief Technician Richard Brown, Corporal David Williams and soldier Acting Lance Corporal Steven Jones.
[email protected]
23 October 2006
Crash families take protest to Number 10
Servicemen's relatives in safety call
Julie Hemmings
FAMILIES of servicemen killed when their aircraft was shot down over Iraq travel to Downing Street tomorrow to demand safety improvements which might have saved the lives of their loved ones.
Nearly two years after the Hercules crash which claimed the lives of nine British servicemen – four of them from Yorkshire – their families say protection for the aeroplane's fuel tanks has yet to be fitted to any Hercules, despite the aircraft's continuing use in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Richard and Pauline Stead, whose son, David, was captain of the aircraft, will travel from their Yorkshire home to hand in the 3,000-signature petition calling for explosion suppressant foam (ESF) to be installed in every aircraft in the Hercules fleet.
The move was recommended last December by the board of inquiry set up to investigate the crash, on January 30 last year, which was the single biggest loss of British forces in Iraq since the invasion began.
Flight Lieutenant David Stead, 35, a father of two from Burley-in-Wharfedale, died with all those on board – including Master Engineer Gary Nicholson, of Hull, Flight Lieutenant Andrew Smith, born in Doncaster, and York-born Flight Sergeant Mark Gibson – when the Hercules C130K was hit by a missile north-west of Baghdad.
The petition, addressed to Prime Minister Tony Blair and Defence Secretary Des Browne, has been signed by serving and former armed forces personnel, as well as civilians.
It was organised by Sarah Chapman, whose brother, Sergeant Robert O'Connor, also died in the crash.
"From what we are led to understand, it seems there still isn't one Hercules in operation that is fitted and serviceable with ESF, and that these aircraft are still operating in theatre in areas of insurgency in both Iraq and Afghanistan," Mr Stead said.
In August an all-party Defence Committee backed the recommendation in a critical report about the under-equipping of British forces and demanded the MoD fits ESF to all Hercules planes.
The board of inquiry had heard the protective system was fitted on American, Australian and some European aeroplanes but had not been a priority for British aircraft.
The bereaved families believe this was for cost reasons and want to raise the matter at the forthcoming inquest into the men's deaths.
However, the MoD has refused to pay for their legal representation at the inquest, a decision which angered the families, particularly as the widow of an Australian serviceman, Flight Lieutenant Paul Pardoel, also on board the Hercules, was automatically given legal representation by the Australian Air Force.
The other British servicemen killed in the crash were Squadron Leader Patrick Marshall, Chief Technician Richard Brown, Corporal David Williams and soldier Acting Lance Corporal Steven Jones.
[email protected]
23 October 2006
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I'm sending all my well wishes for you all today. Lets get ESF installed ASAP, the RAF community at Lyneham is close to my heart, it was our last and longest family home, we had our third baby here and so many cherished memories, so many good friends. You deserve better from the the MoD, the crew deserve better. As a very good friend of ours commented on the petition, RAAF installed this equipment rapidly (comparitively cheaply) and with no fuss, where is the will?
I tried to get some attention here for the cause and not too sure what kind of exposure will follow, the media can be a little unpredictable and do at times have other agendas, by the way I have not received any funding from the Aussie government!
George and Sarah say g'day to the big TB for me.
Kxx
I tried to get some attention here for the cause and not too sure what kind of exposure will follow, the media can be a little unpredictable and do at times have other agendas, by the way I have not received any funding from the Aussie government!
George and Sarah say g'day to the big TB for me.
Kxx
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Hercules' safety boost demanded
So far one Hercules has been fitted with ESF
Relatives of 10 RAF crew members shot down in a Hercules over Iraq are to present a petition calling for safety improvements to Downing Street.
The petition of 2,858 names demands the entire fleet of Hercules, based at Lyneham, Wiltshire, be fitted with explosive suppressant foam (ESF).
The families say ESF would have offered a greater chance of survival.
Link to full story
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...re/6079524.stm
So far one Hercules has been fitted with ESF
Relatives of 10 RAF crew members shot down in a Hercules over Iraq are to present a petition calling for safety improvements to Downing Street.
The petition of 2,858 names demands the entire fleet of Hercules, based at Lyneham, Wiltshire, be fitted with explosive suppressant foam (ESF).
The families say ESF would have offered a greater chance of survival.
Link to full story
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/w...re/6079524.stm