US Army Warrants
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If anyone is interested come over to ARRSE and see the fun GI Joe has already given many people.
http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/index.p...t=22303#380464
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http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/index.p...t=22303#380464
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Have a very good friend that I have worked with for the past 2 years who happens to be a US Army WO - Commissioned Warrant Officer 3. It took us all a few weeks to work out exactly what the hell that meant when he first started, but essentially he - and all other CWs (2-5) are classed as junior officers, and are treated as such. They do not salute fellow JOs on unit or call them sir and it's a system that works fine with us. However, by the time they get to CW 3/4/5 they have that much experience they are usually 'equivalent' to Sqn Ldr / Maj.
From working with the US Army in Telic, I found the biggest problem came when you had Brit WOs / Sgt Majs who quite rightly, are at the top of the tree as far as we are concerned, but this one particular WO was relegated to organising cleaning rosters by the US Army as they didn't understand the difference between Brit / US WO ranks. That one was very quickly sorted when said Brit WO (almost 20 yrs experience) had a rather loud quiet word with said US Army Sgt Maj (approx half that experience). At least there's one Sgt Maj in the US Army now knows the differece
The thing to remember is that the CW scheme is usually for tech specialists - pilots, intel etc and they go through their own Warrant Officer Candidate selection / school. Although they fit in somewhere in the JO bracket, think across to PA type specialists is about as close as I can come up with an equivalent status in the RAF.
From working with the US Army in Telic, I found the biggest problem came when you had Brit WOs / Sgt Majs who quite rightly, are at the top of the tree as far as we are concerned, but this one particular WO was relegated to organising cleaning rosters by the US Army as they didn't understand the difference between Brit / US WO ranks. That one was very quickly sorted when said Brit WO (almost 20 yrs experience) had a rather loud quiet word with said US Army Sgt Maj (approx half that experience). At least there's one Sgt Maj in the US Army now knows the differece
The thing to remember is that the CW scheme is usually for tech specialists - pilots, intel etc and they go through their own Warrant Officer Candidate selection / school. Although they fit in somewhere in the JO bracket, think across to PA type specialists is about as close as I can come up with an equivalent status in the RAF.
WO-1,
First off to my British friends....W1's are commissioned officers in the United States Army. They are not enlisted men....they are not Sargeants or Corporals or in any way an NCO. They are officers.
If your military discipline and standards of conduct allow you to ignore rank of other military forces of the world....I would be a bit surprised to know that.
It is fine to banter and when done in good cheer....it is enjoyable.
As to understanding rank structure.....I would suggest the RAF has some explaining to do as well....and if anyone can understand the epaulet devices connoting rank as worn by the RAF...then he is a far better man than me....I merely assume the more rings, stripes, and braid one of the Crabs has on .....means more senior rank extant.
Saluting officers....only when we recognize them as being superior...however we pride ourselves (US Army Warrant Officers) as being soldiers....and thus saluting a superior officer (even if only by way of rank) is something we do out of tradition and military courtesy. Thus we will salute the British officers we run across....and can identify as officers.
To my WO-1 poster....no one is that stupid....even as a WO Jug....but it sure pulled some fish out of the depths! Which proves WO-1's are never as naive as they appear to be....remember...they used to be very senior enlisted men and as such bear watching....closely and constantly.
First off to my British friends....W1's are commissioned officers in the United States Army. They are not enlisted men....they are not Sargeants or Corporals or in any way an NCO. They are officers.
If your military discipline and standards of conduct allow you to ignore rank of other military forces of the world....I would be a bit surprised to know that.
It is fine to banter and when done in good cheer....it is enjoyable.
As to understanding rank structure.....I would suggest the RAF has some explaining to do as well....and if anyone can understand the epaulet devices connoting rank as worn by the RAF...then he is a far better man than me....I merely assume the more rings, stripes, and braid one of the Crabs has on .....means more senior rank extant.
Saluting officers....only when we recognize them as being superior...however we pride ourselves (US Army Warrant Officers) as being soldiers....and thus saluting a superior officer (even if only by way of rank) is something we do out of tradition and military courtesy. Thus we will salute the British officers we run across....and can identify as officers.
To my WO-1 poster....no one is that stupid....even as a WO Jug....but it sure pulled some fish out of the depths! Which proves WO-1's are never as naive as they appear to be....remember...they used to be very senior enlisted men and as such bear watching....closely and constantly.
Combine Operations
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That would go for all other friendly forces too.
The problem with Brits saluting warrants is simple - we don't do it. We salute the commission.
Suspicion breeds confidence
If you hold a commission you are an officer. If you don't you are not. It doesn't mean you are treated with any less respect or courtesy however.
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Wing Commander sitting in his plush Whitehall office telephones Flt Lt in Germany about something or other.
Before conversation is completed he enquires of the Flt Lt, ''How is Warrant Officer X doing, is'nt it about time he applied for a commission?''.
Flt Lt relays this across the corridor to the WO, who replies, ''No thanks, I'll remain a professional!'' Which is repeated back down the line to Wingco in Whitehall.
The silence was deafening.
Before conversation is completed he enquires of the Flt Lt, ''How is Warrant Officer X doing, is'nt it about time he applied for a commission?''.
Flt Lt relays this across the corridor to the WO, who replies, ''No thanks, I'll remain a professional!'' Which is repeated back down the line to Wingco in Whitehall.
The silence was deafening.
Ok New WO1 this is the simple version. British Warrant officers Wo2 and WO1 and RAF WO s do not hold the Queens commision hence we don't get saluted. Nor do we want to be. The Officers hold a Queens comission and therefore get saluted. The Officer might be a grade A **** but you don't salute him or her as such, we salute the Queens commision. I know from having been there you Americans do salute your WO1. We don't and such as it is never will nor we we salute yours however as a mate of mine did a few years back when a "gunny" was ranting about not being saluted by British soldiers, he did. He did it morning noon and night and everytime he entered the room, left the room, saw the gunny everywhere......... careful what you wish for.
The Straight Poop....
http://www.usawoa.org/woheritage/Hist_of_Army_WO.htm
Says it all.....well some of it anyway!
ZH....the hook has been swallowed...and is set.....feel the tugging of the line yet?
Says it all.....well some of it anyway!
ZH....the hook has been swallowed...and is set.....feel the tugging of the line yet?
So who forgot to Salute the WO....Why post here anyway, sounds as if you already knew the answer.
If we are supposed to salute you and yours, does that mean that yours should have been saluting ours......Strangely enough never seen it happen.
Never seen a USMC WO (that includes the USMC Senior WO) ask to be saluted...probably more important things to worry about.
If we are supposed to salute you and yours, does that mean that yours should have been saluting ours......Strangely enough never seen it happen.
Never seen a USMC WO (that includes the USMC Senior WO) ask to be saluted...probably more important things to worry about.
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Warrant Officers are NCOs, NOT officers. You hold a warrant, not a commision. Therefore you are a Non-Commisioned Officer!
See? WOs are just NCOs with delusions of grandeur! 
See? WOs are just NCOs with delusions of grandeur!
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New WO1,
I am sat here as a British Officer on a US Army camp laughing my nuts off, because you have just given me enough banter ammunition to last a week!
The US Army Master Sergeant (Brit WO2 equiv), sitting on the desk opposite, has had to endure me reading out your posts from here and 'ARRSE' for the last half an hour. His comments such as "Yeah, he ain't nut'in, he must be noo, 'cos they give them CW2 'like that', I think like within a year, or sum'in." says it all really!!
As has been pointed out to you on 'ARRSE', you have achieved this rank straight from training, and have clarified how much credibility you have by the fact you will be promoted within a year on time served alone.
I work regularly with the aviation battalion here. Nearly all the pilots are CW2-5. I call them ‘Chief’, they call me ‘Sir’. We both respect what the other has achieved and neither have ideas above our station. I can’t wait to tell them about you, I am sure they will have some fantastic words of advice!
NFS
I am sat here as a British Officer on a US Army camp laughing my nuts off, because you have just given me enough banter ammunition to last a week!
The US Army Master Sergeant (Brit WO2 equiv), sitting on the desk opposite, has had to endure me reading out your posts from here and 'ARRSE' for the last half an hour. His comments such as "Yeah, he ain't nut'in, he must be noo, 'cos they give them CW2 'like that', I think like within a year, or sum'in." says it all really!!
As has been pointed out to you on 'ARRSE', you have achieved this rank straight from training, and have clarified how much credibility you have by the fact you will be promoted within a year on time served alone.
I work regularly with the aviation battalion here. Nearly all the pilots are CW2-5. I call them ‘Chief’, they call me ‘Sir’. We both respect what the other has achieved and neither have ideas above our station. I can’t wait to tell them about you, I am sure they will have some fantastic words of advice!
NFS
Rak....
Sorry ol' Bean....they are Commissioned Warrant Officers nowadays....much to the chagrin of we old bunch of Warrant Officers. How the US Army in their infinite wisdom could achieve such a situation is beyond me. However one must recall the Army....just like all...operative word here....all military organizations, is managed by Commissioned Officers (but run by NCO's and Warrant Officers).
Nowadays they get commissioned.....whereas in the good old days....we received a Warrant from the Secretary of the Army....and we were most happy with that arrangement. We quite happily fell into the nether regions...officers but not commissoned officers...but not enlisted either. We were satisfied to earn our respect vice obtaining same by means of a piece of paper....almost like buying a commission in some Regiment as you folk did.
The US Army required Warrant Officer Candidates to score higher on the Standardized Tests than they did for commissioned officers....thus again the management set up a relationship bound to fail. Those in charge were not always the sharpest knife in the drawer when compared to those being supervised. Ah...but the fun that caused!
Get yer facts straight before discharging yer weapon....makes for more accurate shooting....but then....are you a commissioned officer?
Need for Speed....ask about a thing called WOPA....see if it still exists? A covert (barely and not always) organization made up of Warrant Officers....full name....Warrant Officers Protective Association. Warrants banded together to "protect" one another....and the group....even if it meant taking a brother Warrant aside for some corrective counseling in private....private usually meaning out behind the hangar one evening late. Nowadays it would be known as "Wall to Wall Counseling".
Sorry ol' Bean....they are Commissioned Warrant Officers nowadays....much to the chagrin of we old bunch of Warrant Officers. How the US Army in their infinite wisdom could achieve such a situation is beyond me. However one must recall the Army....just like all...operative word here....all military organizations, is managed by Commissioned Officers (but run by NCO's and Warrant Officers).
Nowadays they get commissioned.....whereas in the good old days....we received a Warrant from the Secretary of the Army....and we were most happy with that arrangement. We quite happily fell into the nether regions...officers but not commissoned officers...but not enlisted either. We were satisfied to earn our respect vice obtaining same by means of a piece of paper....almost like buying a commission in some Regiment as you folk did.
The US Army required Warrant Officer Candidates to score higher on the Standardized Tests than they did for commissioned officers....thus again the management set up a relationship bound to fail. Those in charge were not always the sharpest knife in the drawer when compared to those being supervised. Ah...but the fun that caused!
Get yer facts straight before discharging yer weapon....makes for more accurate shooting....but then....are you a commissioned officer?
Need for Speed....ask about a thing called WOPA....see if it still exists? A covert (barely and not always) organization made up of Warrant Officers....full name....Warrant Officers Protective Association. Warrants banded together to "protect" one another....and the group....even if it meant taking a brother Warrant aside for some corrective counseling in private....private usually meaning out behind the hangar one evening late. Nowadays it would be known as "Wall to Wall Counseling".
Hi all
Wasn't there a story going about a WW 11 Senior British Officer, whilst in conversation with an Australian SO, alluded to the fact that the 'Stroilian soldiers weren't very good at saluting British Officers. The reply: "Oh,I'm sure if you wave, they'll wave back!"
regards
TDD
Wasn't there a story going about a WW 11 Senior British Officer, whilst in conversation with an Australian SO, alluded to the fact that the 'Stroilian soldiers weren't very good at saluting British Officers. The reply: "Oh,I'm sure if you wave, they'll wave back!"
regards
TDD