US Army Warrants
Chief Tardis Technician
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We Ozzies definitely dont like being called Brits cos were not.
New_WO1, perhaps you can listen to the wisdom voiced in this forum, and accept that in countries other than the US a Warrant Officer doesnt get saluted (as has been stated several times because a warrant is not a Commision), and in some cases they get some what peeved if they are. Remember, that in most cases a Warrant officer has earned his rank, and the respect that goes with it. A Commisioned Officer may get a salute, but not neccesarily the respect. A person who demands respect will rarely receive it.
As for saluting, this is only done when wearing a hat (the one saluting that is) Though there are times when in public that saluting is not done.
New_WO1, perhaps you can listen to the wisdom voiced in this forum, and accept that in countries other than the US a Warrant Officer doesnt get saluted (as has been stated several times because a warrant is not a Commision), and in some cases they get some what peeved if they are. Remember, that in most cases a Warrant officer has earned his rank, and the respect that goes with it. A Commisioned Officer may get a salute, but not neccesarily the respect. A person who demands respect will rarely receive it.
As for saluting, this is only done when wearing a hat (the one saluting that is) Though there are times when in public that saluting is not done.
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As a former Naval Officer in the Royal Australian Navy, I would like to say two things, Firstly of all my dealings with allied forces, nevr was it more apparent of such a distinctive "A" and "B" team in standards as it was with the Americans. The "A" teams would be nieve of other military force customs but the "B" teams, WOW!!! Would make Dad's Army look like they have just completed the SAS' Carter course!!! New_WO1, from my experience US Serviceman have little or no knowledge of allied force rank structure, and generally knowledge of what happens outside the shores of the USA!!! As American Serviceman, they just reflect the culture of the USA, The world starts on the East Coast and ends on the West Coast!! An example of "A" and "B" teams would be, "A" teams being Arleigh Burke Class, "B" teams Oliver Hazzard Perry.
Secondly, whats the attraction with American Football???
Secondly, whats the attraction with American Football???
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One of things I aways find amusing about discussions like this is that they always yield comments such as:
In this instance it seems that a Warrant Officer is being portrayed as the person demanding respect, on account of having earned it. Doesn't really make sense now, does it? 
In a similar vein, I wonder who it was that coined the following phrase:
A Warrant Officer perhaps? All seems a bit self serving from the group who normally scream the loudest when a perceived slight to their status has occured. 
Remember, that in most cases a Warrant officer has earned his rank, and the respect that goes with it. A Commisioned Officer may get a salute, but not neccesarily the respect. A person who demands respect will rarely receive it.
In a similar vein, I wonder who it was that coined the following phrase:
"God made Warrant Officers to give the junior enlisted NCO someone to worship, the senior NCO someone to envy, the junior officer someone to tolerate, and the senior officer someone to respect."
Wessex,
It appears from posts to this thread that a few non-Americans have not concept of the American rank structure just as most of my countrymen have no concept of British class structure. Where do the Aussie's fall into the class ranks now....still a servant to the Crown?
It appears from posts to this thread that a few non-Americans have not concept of the American rank structure just as most of my countrymen have no concept of British class structure. Where do the Aussie's fall into the class ranks now....still a servant to the Crown?
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SASless
Australia is an independent sovereign nation. The link to the crown likely to change in the future.
recce41
I understand the Canadian Forces have three warrant ranks:
WO (Nato OR7) (equivalent to a British Staff Sergeant)
Master WO (Nato OR8) (equivalent to a British WO2)
Chief WO (Nato OR9) (equivalent to a British WO1)
Plenty of scope to confuse our American allies there, particularly with the CWO rank!
Australia is an independent sovereign nation. The link to the crown likely to change in the future.
recce41
I understand the Canadian Forces have three warrant ranks:
WO (Nato OR7) (equivalent to a British Staff Sergeant)
Master WO (Nato OR8) (equivalent to a British WO2)
Chief WO (Nato OR9) (equivalent to a British WO1)
Plenty of scope to confuse our American allies there, particularly with the CWO rank!
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honiton
Yes, In 1968 we got rid of the Commonwealth system a lil. This was from Minister of Defence at that time (68) who in 1944 was in the Air Force during basic training. He was force to the Inf due to shortages. He then had to do Army basic again. So in 68, he unifided us so every one had to do the same training, boy it sucked, we are getting away from it now. But it hurt for a long time. Airforce and navy wearing green, Army trades being closed, etc.
But we in Canada understand the US system better than anyone, we have exchanges all the time. But it with the WO rank, it is the problem, for as you know the commonwealth countries have the WOs/Sgts mess.
And some don't like to stay in our mess. But some love it, due to we are all older, wiser and have more fun. HAHA
Yes, In 1968 we got rid of the Commonwealth system a lil. This was from Minister of Defence at that time (68) who in 1944 was in the Air Force during basic training. He was force to the Inf due to shortages. He then had to do Army basic again. So in 68, he unifided us so every one had to do the same training, boy it sucked, we are getting away from it now. But it hurt for a long time. Airforce and navy wearing green, Army trades being closed, etc.
But we in Canada understand the US system better than anyone, we have exchanges all the time. But it with the WO rank, it is the problem, for as you know the commonwealth countries have the WOs/Sgts mess.
And some don't like to stay in our mess. But some love it, due to we are all older, wiser and have more fun. HAHA
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Just had a rather interesting thought! 
As an ex WO, can I take my Royal Warrant with me to the US and request entry to either mess (I'm not fussed) and a bed for a few nights? I would, naturally, reciprocate if I could but I ain't got no clout no more.
Just asking.
As an ex WO, can I take my Royal Warrant with me to the US and request entry to either mess (I'm not fussed) and a bed for a few nights? I would, naturally, reciprocate if I could but I ain't got no clout no more.
Just asking.
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I've heard there are plans to commission WO1s after Warrant Officer Candidate School.
Hopefully that'll clear up the whole problem as all US WOs will then be commissioned and we'll be recognised as officers.
Hopefully that'll clear up the whole problem as all US WOs will then be commissioned and we'll be recognised as officers.
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New_WO1
Doubt if that will make any difference. However, if you are invited to a Sergeants' Mess don't whinge about being an officer, just remember to address the Station Warrant Officer (RAF) or Regimental Sergeant Major (Army) as 'Sir' (and that applies for any US WO or CWO.)
Doubt if that will make any difference. However, if you are invited to a Sergeants' Mess don't whinge about being an officer, just remember to address the Station Warrant Officer (RAF) or Regimental Sergeant Major (Army) as 'Sir' (and that applies for any US WO or CWO.)
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If you are a consistently good operator (at whatever you do in the military) you will be respected and trusted by all, regardless of rank, commissioned or not. If all you seek is confirmation that you are important then you are probably a hindrance and might be better employed as a security guard or traffic warden.
There is no such thing as automatic respect due to rank. Respect must be earned by getting results.
There is no such thing as automatic respect due to rank. Respect must be earned by getting results.
Oik has it exactly right I think.
NewWobblyOrangeOne, if nothing else, hopefully you are a little bit wiser, and better equipped to deal with people than you were before this thread. If you still hold EXACTLY the same view you had before, well........your career could be a difficult one, especially if you do multi-national ops. Might be worth relaxing about some things, you'll have far more to worry about soon enough.
In hope
JG
NewWobblyOrangeOne, if nothing else, hopefully you are a little bit wiser, and better equipped to deal with people than you were before this thread. If you still hold EXACTLY the same view you had before, well........your career could be a difficult one, especially if you do multi-national ops. Might be worth relaxing about some things, you'll have far more to worry about soon enough.
In hope
JG
PPatRoN
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Sound words, JG.
If you have authority, wear it lightly. My model for this was the late Cardinal Basil Hume. I happened to be helping out at a Christmas shelter run by the church, and the Cardinal was working alongside the volunteers. No, it wasn't a photo op; there were no press present. I saw him give a cup of tea to one old "gentleman of the road" who just took it and said, "Thanks, Farver." "You're welcome." With a smile and a nod, Basil moved on to the next tramp and the next tea.
The moment you say, in so many words, "Respect ma authoritah!" you've lost it.
adr
If you have authority, wear it lightly. My model for this was the late Cardinal Basil Hume. I happened to be helping out at a Christmas shelter run by the church, and the Cardinal was working alongside the volunteers. No, it wasn't a photo op; there were no press present. I saw him give a cup of tea to one old "gentleman of the road" who just took it and said, "Thanks, Farver." "You're welcome." With a smile and a nod, Basil moved on to the next tramp and the next tea.
The moment you say, in so many words, "Respect ma authoritah!" you've lost it.
adr
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I've heard there are plans to commission WO1s after Warrant Officer Candidate School.
Hopefully that'll clear up the whole problem as all US WOs will then be commissioned and we'll be recognised as officers.
Hopefully that'll clear up the whole problem as all US WOs will then be commissioned and we'll be recognised as officers.
While "formally" WO's rank below a lieutenant in Australia, it would be an extremely ill advised, inexpereinced, or brave Lieutenant to presume they outranked or knew more than a Warrant Officer, especially the Regimental Sargent Major! Trust me on this
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MajorMadMax,
Yes we are a small but efficient Navy, very adept in avoiding the only rock between Norfolk Island and South America though.
On Topic,
Before I became a Middy in the RAN, I was an Able rate technician, and became very used to calling WO's 'Sir'. Now, over 3 years since picking up my 'demotion' to Midshipman I still find it hard to not call WO's Sir. Especially if I dont know the actual Warrant Officer, it is hard to call them Mr ???. Any other change overs (Mustangs in seppo-speak) with this problem?
Yes we are a small but efficient Navy, very adept in avoiding the only rock between Norfolk Island and South America though.
On Topic,
Before I became a Middy in the RAN, I was an Able rate technician, and became very used to calling WO's 'Sir'. Now, over 3 years since picking up my 'demotion' to Midshipman
I still find it hard to not call WO's Sir. Especially if I dont know the actual Warrant Officer, it is hard to call them Mr ???. Any other change overs (Mustangs in seppo-speak) with this problem?
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honitone said:
Why should he address them as Sir? He's an officer and they are NCOs. You do not want to recognize his position but you want him to demote himself and recognize a NCO as a senior? You expect him to respect your rank structure, military courtesies and traditions while you ignore and disrespect his?
You might possibly convince a new U.S. Army WO1 to accept this, but I doubt you will never get an Army CWO2 or higher to. I know you will not get a USN or USMC CWO to accept this. While the USN and USMC CWOs would welcome the camaraderie of a visit to the Sergeants Mess, they would expect to be treated as an officer. They spent too many years as senior NCOs prior to being commissioned to let anyone belittle their accomplishment because the other person refuses to recognize a different country's military structure.
If I was leading a U.S. military mission overseas, you can bet I would demand all our personnel were afforded the respect, accomendations and courtesies due their position within the U.S. structure. And I bet the CWOs would be housed, fed and treated as officers without any problems. Your personnel (as would ours in a reverse situation) would do so out of military courtesey - which is what this thread is all about. The officers in charge of your stations are well versed on diplomacy and they care about international military respect and recognition.
As I stated earlier in this thread, I led a USN P-3 detachement to Kinloss with a CWO TACCO and a maintenance CWO. Both ate and stayed in the Officers Mess. Both were invited to all officer social functions. Both were addressed and treated as officer in the hangars and operation centers. And this came automatically with no prompting from me or my bosses back at Kef. While TDY to SHAPE HQ, the USMC CWO5 I was with experienced the same treatment I did as a USN Commander. Again it just happened automatically. The poeple in charge of these things know the facts and make it happen. They accept it, so should you.
Anyway, I'm done with this arguement. Not conceding, just quitting. This has turned into a circular arguement endlessly repeating the same things over and over.
However, if you are invited to a Sergeants' Mess don't whinge about being an officer, just remember to address the Station Warrant Officer (RAF) or Regimental Sergeant Major (Army) as 'Sir' (and that applies for any US WO or CWO.)
You might possibly convince a new U.S. Army WO1 to accept this, but I doubt you will never get an Army CWO2 or higher to. I know you will not get a USN or USMC CWO to accept this. While the USN and USMC CWOs would welcome the camaraderie of a visit to the Sergeants Mess, they would expect to be treated as an officer. They spent too many years as senior NCOs prior to being commissioned to let anyone belittle their accomplishment because the other person refuses to recognize a different country's military structure.
If I was leading a U.S. military mission overseas, you can bet I would demand all our personnel were afforded the respect, accomendations and courtesies due their position within the U.S. structure. And I bet the CWOs would be housed, fed and treated as officers without any problems. Your personnel (as would ours in a reverse situation) would do so out of military courtesey - which is what this thread is all about. The officers in charge of your stations are well versed on diplomacy and they care about international military respect and recognition.
As I stated earlier in this thread, I led a USN P-3 detachement to Kinloss with a CWO TACCO and a maintenance CWO. Both ate and stayed in the Officers Mess. Both were invited to all officer social functions. Both were addressed and treated as officer in the hangars and operation centers. And this came automatically with no prompting from me or my bosses back at Kef. While TDY to SHAPE HQ, the USMC CWO5 I was with experienced the same treatment I did as a USN Commander. Again it just happened automatically. The poeple in charge of these things know the facts and make it happen. They accept it, so should you.
Anyway, I'm done with this arguement. Not conceding, just quitting. This has turned into a circular arguement endlessly repeating the same things over and over.
Last edited by HAL Pilot; 26th Sep 2005 at 23:30.