Air cadet instructors
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There has been a lot of honest comments here all of which I can relate to having had several years experience working with the ATC from a service perspective. There are many, many VRT staff who work for the Cadets with untold dedication. There are sadly some who are an absolute disgrace to the uniform that they are privileged to wear. Happily the later are very much the minority, although they are also the ones that are noticed by the public and servicemen alike. I have witnessed on several occasions servicemen, and often cpls and sacs, having a quiet word. In sympathy with the numbers in para 2, most VRT listen and learn, the odd arrogant ba"%%^d throws a teddy and complains. The important side to this debate regardless of where your loyalties lie, is that the Cadets are not (usually) the ones seen can kicking on street corners and mugging mobile phones off teenagers and old ladies. They are usually highly motivated, and less there be any doubt about that, have a go at the staff cadet exam which ammounts to defence studies worthy of an IOT or Staff Course. If a bit of time and effort keeps these kids off the streets for a few hours a week, creates teamwork and responsibility (Duke of Edinburghs award) then we should all support them. As ACLO at a purple learning centre, I enjoy unreserved (and costly £££$$$) support from all members of my station. We host the Cadets on 12 annual camps and day visits for the remainder of the year. I was pleasantly surprised when after having a "knob in power" on the unit that caused some localised ill feeling, the station rose above that and have enabled the cadets to have a sucessfull and enjoyable time at what for many is their first summer camp. I felt quite privileged as operating crew on an aircraft that had on board a Cadet who at 14 years of age had never flown before. Not least of which was because as a 14 year old on board a Whirlwind helicopter at RAF Valley a long time ago, that said Cadet was me!! 28 years of service later......... I rest my case:
The whole fat comment was meant in a light-hearted way. It was something my Father used to say and I think was more aimed at annoying me (he tends to rip the pi$$ out of anything i'm involved in) than being an accurate judgement.
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Horrah for ATC staff and the likes. But for them there would be even more 'hoodies' wandering the streets, frightening old people. These dedicated individuals spend their own free time attempting to instill a degree of discipline and pride into todays 'yoof'. Some of them may be less than ideal, but I think that we would be in a much worse state without them.
How many of those contributing to this forum are ex-spacey?
How many of those contributing to this forum are ex-spacey?
I served as a regular for ten years and then another fifteen as a VR(T) officer including a spell as a gliding instructor), ending up as a squadron commander before retiring. During that time I met many many dedicated and capable ATC staff, civilian and military. I also met quite a few @rses who were clearly in it for themselves.
The most embarassing moments were always at camp when the ATC staff had to mix with regulars; many just couldn't cut it and came across as total idiots.
I recall being on a staff visit to Laarbruch during the run-up to GW1. This was a rare occasion when staff spent a week, without cadets, learning how a front-line unit operated. Laarbruch was almost maxed-out, yet still took the time to host us. On one day we were being given a tour of a HAS, the bod assigned to look after us was giving us a really thorough briefing and was about to let us see a JP 233 when on of our party said. "No, it's okay, the mess is just about to serve lunch" and promptly swanned-off. The guy's chin hit the floor and I hoped the ground would swallow me.
On another trip to Germany (Gutersloh, I believe), The ATC camp commandant was asked to leave the mess by the PMC because he was swigging his beer from a bottle.
A final memory is of the Sqn Ldr camp commandant at a camp in Akrotiri who had spent his three-day prep time sightseeing, with the result that when the cadets and staff arrived after, for some, a 24-hour journey, there were no arrangements for accommodation, or transport. We were left at the terminal while he drove off "to get some keys". Luckily we were rescued by some aircrew from 100 Sqn who helped no end while this idiot toured the base looking for 'keys'.
On the positive side, people who regularly give up two evenings a week and most weekends should be acknowledged as dedicated and hard working. Those who do make faux pas are probably being let down by their squadron commanders, who should be briefing them as to how to conduct themselves on a military establishment.
I for one will be eternally grateful for the help and support of the regular RAF when we descended on their unit for annual camp. I always found that a professional approach was returned with pleasure and an obvious satisfaction at being able to help.
The most embarassing moments were always at camp when the ATC staff had to mix with regulars; many just couldn't cut it and came across as total idiots.
I recall being on a staff visit to Laarbruch during the run-up to GW1. This was a rare occasion when staff spent a week, without cadets, learning how a front-line unit operated. Laarbruch was almost maxed-out, yet still took the time to host us. On one day we were being given a tour of a HAS, the bod assigned to look after us was giving us a really thorough briefing and was about to let us see a JP 233 when on of our party said. "No, it's okay, the mess is just about to serve lunch" and promptly swanned-off. The guy's chin hit the floor and I hoped the ground would swallow me.
On another trip to Germany (Gutersloh, I believe), The ATC camp commandant was asked to leave the mess by the PMC because he was swigging his beer from a bottle.
A final memory is of the Sqn Ldr camp commandant at a camp in Akrotiri who had spent his three-day prep time sightseeing, with the result that when the cadets and staff arrived after, for some, a 24-hour journey, there were no arrangements for accommodation, or transport. We were left at the terminal while he drove off "to get some keys". Luckily we were rescued by some aircrew from 100 Sqn who helped no end while this idiot toured the base looking for 'keys'.
On the positive side, people who regularly give up two evenings a week and most weekends should be acknowledged as dedicated and hard working. Those who do make faux pas are probably being let down by their squadron commanders, who should be briefing them as to how to conduct themselves on a military establishment.
I for one will be eternally grateful for the help and support of the regular RAF when we descended on their unit for annual camp. I always found that a professional approach was returned with pleasure and an obvious satisfaction at being able to help.
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I'm an ex-cadet (1312 (Southend) Sqn) and am deeply indebted to the ATC for what it did for me during my formative years. The vast majority of ATC staff are dedicated, smart and as keen as mustard (indeed, many regulars could do with a dose of their enthusiasm).
There are a few, however, who come across as just spotters, bullies, wannabees and/or bags o'sh!te. I actually then feel more agrieved that they represent an organisation I feel quite proud to have been associated with. These are, however, the minority and the regulars have plenty of the same too.
I heartily concur with those posters who believe that they help keep would-be thugs off the streets and thus make our grannies safer. So next time you find yourself trapped at the bar by a sycophantic bore (please don't take offence, most are perfectly pleasant), just smile politely and think how much safer the streets are... and ask what you and/or your section could do to help.
There are a few, however, who come across as just spotters, bullies, wannabees and/or bags o'sh!te. I actually then feel more agrieved that they represent an organisation I feel quite proud to have been associated with. These are, however, the minority and the regulars have plenty of the same too.
I heartily concur with those posters who believe that they help keep would-be thugs off the streets and thus make our grannies safer. So next time you find yourself trapped at the bar by a sycophantic bore (please don't take offence, most are perfectly pleasant), just smile politely and think how much safer the streets are... and ask what you and/or your section could do to help.
As an AEF pilot for the last 16 yrs, I have nothing but admiration for the dedicated RAF(VRT) officers and their civilian instructors who take the time and effort to support and run the ATC system.
In any organisation you will get the odd balls but most of the staff I have met have been very good (and some eccentric - eh padre!!). The cadets we fly at summer camps are enthusiastic and very keen not only to fly but also to take part in the night exercises and other activities set up by the staff.
I usually ask the cadets, while flying, what has been the best part of the camp so far? At first, I expected them to say it was the AEF trip but while some said this others were keen on the ground activities. One girl last week perhaps summed up the ethos of the ATC when she said the best part was making new friends
Keep up the good work.
HF
In any organisation you will get the odd balls but most of the staff I have met have been very good (and some eccentric - eh padre!!). The cadets we fly at summer camps are enthusiastic and very keen not only to fly but also to take part in the night exercises and other activities set up by the staff.
I usually ask the cadets, while flying, what has been the best part of the camp so far? At first, I expected them to say it was the AEF trip but while some said this others were keen on the ground activities. One girl last week perhaps summed up the ethos of the ATC when she said the best part was making new friends
Keep up the good work.
HF
Ah Spaceys
I can claim to have been a spacey myself (for 5 years - 1069 Wimborne Squadron) and definitely credit it with getting me where I am now. The VR(T)'s were always great value when I was there.
I regularly show groups of cadets round the squadron and I'm glad to see they still show the same level of enthusiasm that I did all those years ago. I even waved at a load of cadets in a tristar the other day as I waited my turn up on tow line 6.
The only bad experience I can think of was a female CO that was with a bunch of cadets on a summer camp last year.
One of the young female cadets asked if girls were allowed to be pilots. Before my comrade could answer she jumped in with "of course not"!!!
It took a couple of further minutes of convincing her and the cadets that it is, of course, permitted. She wouldn't give up though and parted with a "well it's not encouraged though"!!!
So much for womens lib!!
BV
I regularly show groups of cadets round the squadron and I'm glad to see they still show the same level of enthusiasm that I did all those years ago. I even waved at a load of cadets in a tristar the other day as I waited my turn up on tow line 6.
The only bad experience I can think of was a female CO that was with a bunch of cadets on a summer camp last year.
One of the young female cadets asked if girls were allowed to be pilots. Before my comrade could answer she jumped in with "of course not"!!!
It took a couple of further minutes of convincing her and the cadets that it is, of course, permitted. She wouldn't give up though and parted with a "well it's not encouraged though"!!!
So much for womens lib!!
BV
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quote:
'On another trip to Germany (Gutersloh, I believe), The ATC camp commandant was asked to leave the mess by the PMC because he was swigging his beer from a bottle. '
Maybe a bit of an extreme example but it is probably true to say that a high proportion of VR(T) Officers (and now NCO's) are abit out of touch with the regular armed forces(understandably so). I can think of 2 reasons for this, first is the amount of training and guidance given to the volunteers when they first join regarding service knowledge, customs and ethos. Secondly it is incumbent on our VR(T) colleagues to keep themselves up to date, knowledgable and proud of the organisations we all represent so that they can pass this on to the Cadets and instill the same ethos.
We should bear it in mind that the Cadet organisiations are also useful recruiting grounds for the future of the Armed Forces and not just glorified youth clubs as some of those posting seem to be suggesting.
'On another trip to Germany (Gutersloh, I believe), The ATC camp commandant was asked to leave the mess by the PMC because he was swigging his beer from a bottle. '
Maybe a bit of an extreme example but it is probably true to say that a high proportion of VR(T) Officers (and now NCO's) are abit out of touch with the regular armed forces(understandably so). I can think of 2 reasons for this, first is the amount of training and guidance given to the volunteers when they first join regarding service knowledge, customs and ethos. Secondly it is incumbent on our VR(T) colleagues to keep themselves up to date, knowledgable and proud of the organisations we all represent so that they can pass this on to the Cadets and instill the same ethos.
We should bear it in mind that the Cadet organisiations are also useful recruiting grounds for the future of the Armed Forces and not just glorified youth clubs as some of those posting seem to be suggesting.
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Having seen the story from both sides of the fence (RAF SNCO aircrew & now VR(T) officer) I can honestly say that the vast majority of the ATC staff I know are doing a great job. They give up a lot of time, put a lot of effort and enthusiasm into what they are doing...and most importantly of all, the cadets appreciate it and get something out of it.
Would you rather have your kids involved in a worthwhile activity from which they gain some discipline, experience and skills or hanging around on the streets?
Of course there are exceptions, there are obnoxious people in all walks of life, the service included.
Would you rather have your kids involved in a worthwhile activity from which they gain some discipline, experience and skills or hanging around on the streets?
Of course there are exceptions, there are obnoxious people in all walks of life, the service included.
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Richlear.
As with all walks of life there are good eggs and bad eggs.
Good show to those with enthusiasm and drive.
Bad show to those few who give the Cadet organisations ( and he rest of us) a bad name.
To come back to the original question on this thread. Quite right, it isn't a dig or a fish, more a question of perception. The Cadet organisations will always be popular because of the ethos and sense of belonging instilled in their members. Those who abuse their positions are easily recognisable to the cadets and the wider community. All of us are responsible for instilling ethos, pride and drive in the Cadet oraganisations whenever we are exposed to them.
Excuse the spool chook Eye will trie and soort it owt four neckst tyme. Much stroke sympathy needed. Nne owld truckie nav!!
As with all walks of life there are good eggs and bad eggs.
Good show to those with enthusiasm and drive.
Bad show to those few who give the Cadet organisations ( and he rest of us) a bad name.
To come back to the original question on this thread. Quite right, it isn't a dig or a fish, more a question of perception. The Cadet organisations will always be popular because of the ethos and sense of belonging instilled in their members. Those who abuse their positions are easily recognisable to the cadets and the wider community. All of us are responsible for instilling ethos, pride and drive in the Cadet oraganisations whenever we are exposed to them.
Excuse the spool chook Eye will trie and soort it owt four neckst tyme. Much stroke sympathy needed. Nne owld truckie nav!!
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Stax said:
yep, that is one of the points that I think may have prompted the question on here!
Hopefully the general attitudes in the Corps have changed a lot since you wre a cadet (You'll hate me for this, but you started cadets before I was born...
) - certainly even since I was a cadet 15 years ago, bullying in the sense you saw back then has vanished completely - well certainly where I've seen.
PileUp Officer said:
I'm not fat - I'm big boned!
However if you think we are being nasty check out the comments on ACF AI's on the ARRSE website, ATC guys, you get off lightly here!
Hopefully the general attitudes in the Corps have changed a lot since you wre a cadet (You'll hate me for this, but you started cadets before I was born...
) - certainly even since I was a cadet 15 years ago, bullying in the sense you saw back then has vanished completely - well certainly where I've seen. PileUp Officer said:
My Dad always said to me that to be an ATC officer (or VR(T) or whatever the technical name is) you had to be really fat!
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Interesting Thread this!!!!!!!
I am ex TA and regular NCO Aircrew, and after some time getting established after leaving the service, I entered the ATC as an Adult Instructor, and then became an Adult WO. This was with 221 Sqn in Great Yarmouth. Excellent staff, good kids (some rough as rats, but generally as good as gold), a real pleasure.
Then we moved to Wales, and I went to a sqn here - no names, no pack drill - which was a mess. The kids were completely lacking in discipline to the extent that they called all the uniformed staff by their first names AT ALL TIMES!! I started to rectify this only to be told by the CO not to, as this gave the kids an inferiority complex. I let him know my feelings on this as an ex-regular and was told to desist.
I applied for a transfer, only to be told by the Wing that this was not to be, so I resigned!
My point being that some ATC staff including senior staff seem to want to be as obstructive to the ethos of giving the kids the discipline and skills that they need in the great wide world. I would go back into ATC like a shot, and I wish the ATC all the best in the world. To see rough kids blossom into excellent young people ready for the world is one of the best feelings that I have ever had.
To all ATC staff, keep doing the good work, keep enjoying it and all power to you all!!
I am ex TA and regular NCO Aircrew, and after some time getting established after leaving the service, I entered the ATC as an Adult Instructor, and then became an Adult WO. This was with 221 Sqn in Great Yarmouth. Excellent staff, good kids (some rough as rats, but generally as good as gold), a real pleasure.
Then we moved to Wales, and I went to a sqn here - no names, no pack drill - which was a mess. The kids were completely lacking in discipline to the extent that they called all the uniformed staff by their first names AT ALL TIMES!! I started to rectify this only to be told by the CO not to, as this gave the kids an inferiority complex. I let him know my feelings on this as an ex-regular and was told to desist.
I applied for a transfer, only to be told by the Wing that this was not to be, so I resigned!
My point being that some ATC staff including senior staff seem to want to be as obstructive to the ethos of giving the kids the discipline and skills that they need in the great wide world. I would go back into ATC like a shot, and I wish the ATC all the best in the world. To see rough kids blossom into excellent young people ready for the world is one of the best feelings that I have ever had.
To all ATC staff, keep doing the good work, keep enjoying it and all power to you all!!
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ProcATCO - crying shame that! The ATC is crying out for adult instructors - you may (or may not!) have noticed the recent high profile recruitment campaign (cheesy radio adverts, national, regional, and local press, etc) and when I hear about such petty arguements forcing a dedicated instructor to resign, it makes my blood boil! I have seen wing staff close ranks to the detriment of the Corps before however, and it makes absolutely no sense - who are we in this for after all?! 
I agree completely with what you have said though. In some cases, the ATC at all levels just shoots itself in the foot, or creates massive problems for itself. One example (which I understand is in the process of being resolved) is in CRB clearance for new and existing staff, which in some cases has taken up to 10 months (by which time, any sane person would have given up and gone to the scouts, whos CRB clearance is covered by the local authority and takes weeks rather than months). Other examples might be ongoing complete Adventure Training ban in some regions awaiting a mystical ACP that may take a year to appear, or the implementation of legaslation-enforced regulations on how over-18 year old cadets are viewed by the Corps, and H&S concerns coming out of our ears (the risk assessment for a drill session still makes me chuckle).
One recent change that you may have noticed however is a change to the staff SNCO rank structure, with the introduction of Adult Sergeants and Flight Sergeants. This has hopefully given a bit of career progression for Adult SNCOs, and also means you are no longer seeing brand new 21 year old Adult Warrant Officers waltzing about the Sgts Mess. Hopefully a bit less politically sensitive, although you may still have issues there I guess.
I agree completely with what you have said though. In some cases, the ATC at all levels just shoots itself in the foot, or creates massive problems for itself. One example (which I understand is in the process of being resolved) is in CRB clearance for new and existing staff, which in some cases has taken up to 10 months (by which time, any sane person would have given up and gone to the scouts, whos CRB clearance is covered by the local authority and takes weeks rather than months). Other examples might be ongoing complete Adventure Training ban in some regions awaiting a mystical ACP that may take a year to appear, or the implementation of legaslation-enforced regulations on how over-18 year old cadets are viewed by the Corps, and H&S concerns coming out of our ears (the risk assessment for a drill session still makes me chuckle).
One recent change that you may have noticed however is a change to the staff SNCO rank structure, with the introduction of Adult Sergeants and Flight Sergeants. This has hopefully given a bit of career progression for Adult SNCOs, and also means you are no longer seeing brand new 21 year old Adult Warrant Officers waltzing about the Sgts Mess. Hopefully a bit less politically sensitive, although you may still have issues there I guess.
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brand new 21 year old Adult Warrant Officers waltzing about the Sgts Mess.
Anyway, back to the thread.
Did lots of years as a cadet and CI Gliding Instructor and have a great deal of respect for anyone who is prepared to give the amount of time and effort these people do; I am not just talking about the evenings and weekends, but also the summer and easter camps and I know that there was rarely a weekend went by when we weren't out hill walking in Wales or the Lakes - not bad when you are based in Manchester.
Of course you get the occasional odd ball - but don't we have that in the Service? I believe that when it is done right, the discipline provided by the ATC (and I dare say Army Cadets and Sea Cadets) fills a much needed gap in the life experience of these kids. The return for their effort is the number of things they get to do in response. It concerns me that there are elements of the VR(T) who seem to be against the Service ethos, as ProcATCO suggests. In his shoes, I think I would have gone further than wing level before resigning.
I know that when I was a cadet, we considered the CCF(RAF) far more relaxed than the ATC - I get the impression from visitors to my unit that this may now be changing to the other way round?
STH
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ProcATCO
Your post has prompted me to "come out" from a long lurk and express my outrage at your ATC experiences
As a serving VRT I must say that your wing was totally out of line and you should have kicked this upstairs to Region. Knowing the Regional Commandant for Wales and West he would surely have "kicked a$$"
The ATC cannot afford to lose someone with your background and I can only say that in most of the ATC sqns I have visited across the UK, a friendly but definite RAF style discipline is enforced. One or two wayward COs (one I know with previous regular RAF commisioned experience!) use first names to cadets all the time, but this is actively discouraged by all the Wing COs I have met.
A big THANK YOU to all you busy regulars who, despite all the cr@p you are facing right now give the cadets such sterling support.
Your post has prompted me to "come out" from a long lurk and express my outrage at your ATC experiences
As a serving VRT I must say that your wing was totally out of line and you should have kicked this upstairs to Region. Knowing the Regional Commandant for Wales and West he would surely have "kicked a$$"
The ATC cannot afford to lose someone with your background and I can only say that in most of the ATC sqns I have visited across the UK, a friendly but definite RAF style discipline is enforced. One or two wayward COs (one I know with previous regular RAF commisioned experience!) use first names to cadets all the time, but this is actively discouraged by all the Wing COs I have met.
A big THANK YOU to all you busy regulars who, despite all the cr@p you are facing right now give the cadets such sterling support.
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As 'coming out' seems to be the thing in this thread, I'll declare myself as an ex-cadet who went through the ranks to be a CWO for 3 yrs and have now completed 19 yrs of commissioned service in the RAFVR(T). I have a small amount of regular service (Eng Branch), but was recoursed / chopped from IOT in 1982. I suppose that in the steely eyes of Mil Aircrew, I'm a wannabe blunty. I would refute that view, as I was never given the opportunity to join the steely eyed band (failed GD(P) medical in 1973 and went on to do an undergraduate apprenticeship with a little known British Manufacturer of military aircraft near Blackpool!). I have also subsequently self-funded a PPL.
I view our role in the ACO as being part 'salesmen' to introduce cdts to what military life is about, part teacher and part careers adviser. Due to declining miltary recruitment, probably about 95% of the cdts we deal with will not finish up with a military career. We can, however, keep the little varmints off the streets at a crucial stage of their life - I always tell new recruits in our Sqn that I don't really mind what they do as a career so long as I can see them around town in future years and be proud to say that I had a part in their development. They are future voters, so any experience they have of military matters will enable them to make more informed choices.
On camps (for which there are woefully few cadet / staff places), the parent service for the greater part do an excellent job of hosting us - on some stations, the ACLO is outstanding and is able to be very hands on - whenever I've been Camp Comm, I've always tried to make sure that those who excel receive due feedback to their line management. I'm experienced enough to recognise those that have a busy day job which prevents them from getting too involved - there are ACLOs who make the effort, just as there are ACO staff / cdts who don't appreciate what's been done behind the scenes to facilitate their presence on camp.
I can only apologise for those that are an embarassment to our organisation - I try to respect the fact that we are guests on the station and use the time as far as possible to update myself with the current issues in the service from the view of those that are currently serving.
Thank you to all who support the ACO (either directly or indirectly) whether as camp hosts, day visits, parent stations - it is recognised that without your support the ACO would not exist.
I view our role in the ACO as being part 'salesmen' to introduce cdts to what military life is about, part teacher and part careers adviser. Due to declining miltary recruitment, probably about 95% of the cdts we deal with will not finish up with a military career. We can, however, keep the little varmints off the streets at a crucial stage of their life - I always tell new recruits in our Sqn that I don't really mind what they do as a career so long as I can see them around town in future years and be proud to say that I had a part in their development. They are future voters, so any experience they have of military matters will enable them to make more informed choices.
On camps (for which there are woefully few cadet / staff places), the parent service for the greater part do an excellent job of hosting us - on some stations, the ACLO is outstanding and is able to be very hands on - whenever I've been Camp Comm, I've always tried to make sure that those who excel receive due feedback to their line management. I'm experienced enough to recognise those that have a busy day job which prevents them from getting too involved - there are ACLOs who make the effort, just as there are ACO staff / cdts who don't appreciate what's been done behind the scenes to facilitate their presence on camp.
I can only apologise for those that are an embarassment to our organisation - I try to respect the fact that we are guests on the station and use the time as far as possible to update myself with the current issues in the service from the view of those that are currently serving.
Thank you to all who support the ACO (either directly or indirectly) whether as camp hosts, day visits, parent stations - it is recognised that without your support the ACO would not exist.
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As an ex RAF and ex VR(T) officer I believe that both the RAF and ATC contain roughly the same proportion of good guys (90%) and w*ankers (10%). Each branch of the service needs the other and should recognise this and try to keep the relationship positive.
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Take the point about w*ankers but I believe they are at opposite ends of the rank structure in the ATC and RAF.
I always thought life in the RAF was a bit like life in a monkey tree - when you looked down you saw monkeys but when you looked up you saw as*holes.
I always thought life in the RAF was a bit like life in a monkey tree - when you looked down you saw monkeys but when you looked up you saw as*holes.
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My daughter (14 yo) has just completed her first year in the ATC, and she's got a huge amount out of it. So much so that I am now chairman of the civilian committee. The squadron is very fortunate as it's just over the Thames from Benson, and three regular NCOs from Benson help run the training, and the NCA dad of a cadet does some leadership training with the cadet NCOs.
My observation is that having regular contact with regulars is very good for the cadets, but even more so for the officers! I can imagine that an ATC unit miles from any regular unit/contact could become introspective and possibly rather anal about trivial matters.
My observation is that having regular contact with regulars is very good for the cadets, but even more so for the officers! I can imagine that an ATC unit miles from any regular unit/contact could become introspective and possibly rather anal about trivial matters.
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Please note that this thread asked for my opinion and I venture it in the knowledge that I appear to be out of step with the other contributors 
Whilst the ATC appears to offer excellent opportunities for the cadets and has been a recruiting and grooming ground for many years, I question its value to the RAF today. With a uniformed manning target of just 41,800 I believe that there must be enough high calibre applicants out there to feed that figure without the ATC. After all, 41,800 makes us smaller than Marks and Spencers and they don't have a uniformed youth organization (or do they?).
Those of us left in of the remaining posts are all doing far more work and dets than we ever were before. The only way that we can now operate is by cutting all activity not CRITICAL to our task. I am afraid that I see hosting and flying ATC as falling in that bracket.
Please don't feel victimised as I also think that we should disband the Red Arrows, the QCS and the Falcons.
Light blue touch paper and retire......
Whilst the ATC appears to offer excellent opportunities for the cadets and has been a recruiting and grooming ground for many years, I question its value to the RAF today. With a uniformed manning target of just 41,800 I believe that there must be enough high calibre applicants out there to feed that figure without the ATC. After all, 41,800 makes us smaller than Marks and Spencers and they don't have a uniformed youth organization (or do they?).
Those of us left in of the remaining posts are all doing far more work and dets than we ever were before. The only way that we can now operate is by cutting all activity not CRITICAL to our task. I am afraid that I see hosting and flying ATC as falling in that bracket.
Please don't feel victimised as I also think that we should disband the Red Arrows, the QCS and the Falcons.
Light blue touch paper and retire......
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London
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A bit of an accountant's approach that (the greatest insult of all...)
Taken to its final end point, why have an air force at all? Let's become the latest state in the good ole USA and let them look after us. They have tons of aircraft already and we could save a packet....
Did I hear a distant explosion......????
Taken to its final end point, why have an air force at all? Let's become the latest state in the good ole USA and let them look after us. They have tons of aircraft already and we could save a packet....
Did I hear a distant explosion......????