The other E.E. classic, the Canberra. (Merged 23rd July '04)
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Hi to you Luke
Yes I'm sure. 213 Sqn were the only users of the B(I)6. Only 19 B(I)6s were built all of which but two, WT308 and WT309, were issued to 213. The two not issued were in the charge of RAE and A&AEE, although WT309 spent a while with the RAF Handling Sqn.
Akrotiri's Pink Flamigoes had B.15s and B.16s and 51 had B.6R's. (although that last designation may have been local).
Tiger-mate
What hangar was that in? Recall an incident of a drouge bolt threading a drouge chute through a leccy(?), not pleasant.
Ah! Never mind Tiger-mate, LoveChild has answered while I was building my post. 82 was after my time.
But to happier things. . .
. Anybody out there got any Cranberrie tales from Idris? Here's an image to help stir your memories.
Edited to say sorry but my ISP is really slow at the moment, the pic's worth the wait though I reckon.
Dawn on the pan - you can almost feel the heat starting.
Yes I'm sure. 213 Sqn were the only users of the B(I)6. Only 19 B(I)6s were built all of which but two, WT308 and WT309, were issued to 213. The two not issued were in the charge of RAE and A&AEE, although WT309 spent a while with the RAF Handling Sqn.
Akrotiri's Pink Flamigoes had B.15s and B.16s and 51 had B.6R's. (although that last designation may have been local).
Tiger-mate
What hangar was that in? Recall an incident of a drouge bolt threading a drouge chute through a leccy(?), not pleasant.
Ah! Never mind Tiger-mate, LoveChild has answered while I was building my post. 82 was after my time.
But to happier things. . .
. Anybody out there got any Cranberrie tales from Idris? Here's an image to help stir your memories.Edited to say sorry but my ISP is really slow at the moment, the pic's worth the wait though I reckon.
Dawn on the pan - you can almost feel the heat starting.
Last edited by Beeayeate; 25th Feb 2004 at 03:23.
Ich bin ein Prooner.
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Excellent response so far, guys. Thanks. Keep them coming. Beeayeate's atmospheric piccy reminds me (always been a civvy) of a time many moons ago when I was completing a task in a sand and gravel quarry in deepest Dorset, where I was living at the time.
The quarry was in a low-flying zone, and on the day, I was working on top of a tower, about 60 feet from the ground. I happened to turn round to be confronted by a Canberra which had the exact appearance with regards to heading and height relative to me as the one in B8's piccy (sans sunshade & u/c, of course.)
It proceeded to hurtle past, just in front of its own noise, which was quite something when it arrived!
As a life long aero-nut, the location of the job for me was a joy and delight. During the time I was there, I think most types that were in service at the time came wafting past from time to time, even big stuff.
The quarry was in a low-flying zone, and on the day, I was working on top of a tower, about 60 feet from the ground. I happened to turn round to be confronted by a Canberra which had the exact appearance with regards to heading and height relative to me as the one in B8's piccy (sans sunshade & u/c, of course.)
It proceeded to hurtle past, just in front of its own noise, which was quite something when it arrived!
As a life long aero-nut, the location of the job for me was a joy and delight. During the time I was there, I think most types that were in service at the time came wafting past from time to time, even big stuff.
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I was on 13 Sqn at Luqa from 1965 - 1968, the 3 best years of my 22 in the mob, as an Inst Fitt(Nav). I spent God knows how many months on detachment to outlandish places, bloody wonderful time!
The Armourer Sgt who had the bang-seat mishap came to Malta with the Squadron, I remember his christian name was Dave, he had blond hair, although that was reputed to heve been brown prior to the incident. He also gained a form of notoriety when, one evening on a "night-flashing" exercise, one aircraft RTB'd with a reported 8in hang-up. He was on-call at home in Paola, but couldn't be found either by the duty driver or by phone! The aircraft stopped on the runway and the crew left it there, SATCO was mightily angry as the civvies used the same runway and something was due in soon, probably the Vanguard from LHR. For the life of me I cannot remember how it was resolved!
Times weren't all good, I clearly remember the a/c which went in at Luqa as a result of a heavyweight, assymetric overshoot, just after take-off. I believe that, when power was applied to the idling side, the engine surged, the a/c rolled and had insufficient height for recovery. I left the Sqn not long after, repat to UK, but I did hear that the manoeuvre was deleted from training requirements.
One of the funniest times was one evening when the Sqn T4 came back from a CT exercise, and parked. While I was taking the G-meter readings in the bomb-bay, with the obligatory panic when some ******** in the cockpit used the residual hyd power to move the bomb-doors, the duty leco pressed the "relight" buttond on the throttles. As it was a beautiful, calm, still evening, some fuel had pooled in the hot engines, vapourised and promptly lit off with the HEIU being activated. The ensuing comedy had to be seen to be believed! The Maltese civvy refeueller promptly reversed away from the aircraft, still pouring fuel from the nozzles, and the "firies" across the short runway took the opportunity to display their prowess and pumped untold gallons of foam into the engine intakes! No more CT until the double engine changes were done, which pissed off the CO as there was no requirement for the leco to have checked the cracker-boxes on an "after-flight" inspection.
The Canberra was a great a/c to work on, with the exception of recharging the oxy on the PR9 while the a/c was being refuelled. As sure as Christ, I'd be just about finished with the oxy when the weight of the a/c settlled the oleos and the TACAN antenna (I think) would dig into my shoulder, just below the neck. I still have scar tissue there!
Got to go, time to work, but I'll post more as I recall.
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
The Armourer Sgt who had the bang-seat mishap came to Malta with the Squadron, I remember his christian name was Dave, he had blond hair, although that was reputed to heve been brown prior to the incident. He also gained a form of notoriety when, one evening on a "night-flashing" exercise, one aircraft RTB'd with a reported 8in hang-up. He was on-call at home in Paola, but couldn't be found either by the duty driver or by phone! The aircraft stopped on the runway and the crew left it there, SATCO was mightily angry as the civvies used the same runway and something was due in soon, probably the Vanguard from LHR. For the life of me I cannot remember how it was resolved!
Times weren't all good, I clearly remember the a/c which went in at Luqa as a result of a heavyweight, assymetric overshoot, just after take-off. I believe that, when power was applied to the idling side, the engine surged, the a/c rolled and had insufficient height for recovery. I left the Sqn not long after, repat to UK, but I did hear that the manoeuvre was deleted from training requirements.
One of the funniest times was one evening when the Sqn T4 came back from a CT exercise, and parked. While I was taking the G-meter readings in the bomb-bay, with the obligatory panic when some ******** in the cockpit used the residual hyd power to move the bomb-doors, the duty leco pressed the "relight" buttond on the throttles. As it was a beautiful, calm, still evening, some fuel had pooled in the hot engines, vapourised and promptly lit off with the HEIU being activated. The ensuing comedy had to be seen to be believed! The Maltese civvy refeueller promptly reversed away from the aircraft, still pouring fuel from the nozzles, and the "firies" across the short runway took the opportunity to display their prowess and pumped untold gallons of foam into the engine intakes! No more CT until the double engine changes were done, which pissed off the CO as there was no requirement for the leco to have checked the cracker-boxes on an "after-flight" inspection.
The Canberra was a great a/c to work on, with the exception of recharging the oxy on the PR9 while the a/c was being refuelled. As sure as Christ, I'd be just about finished with the oxy when the weight of the a/c settlled the oleos and the TACAN antenna (I think) would dig into my shoulder, just below the neck. I still have scar tissue there!
Got to go, time to work, but I'll post more as I recall.
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
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Bow to your knowledge Beeayeate.
Remember hearing about an incident, which apparently happened to a Wyton Canberra in the mid-sixties. An engine fitter was flying in the rhumbold seat on a jolly, when a major malfunction occurred. Fitter was told to bail out over Rutland Water (or other nearby lake) and did so successfully. He paddled around amongst the ducks until a rowing boat appeared. Don’t know what happened to the aircraft or crew. It obviously didn’t put him off. I think I later met him at Akrotiri as a navigator on (I think) 249 Sqn. Believe his first name was Dave and he was an ex-Halton Brat (92nd Entry?). Anyone have any more accurate information, because mine is decidedly iffy?
Anyone know when the nickname “Cranberry”, which I first saw on Pprune, came into use? It was not a name, which was in use when I was on Canberras in the 60s and early 70s.
Remember hearing about an incident, which apparently happened to a Wyton Canberra in the mid-sixties. An engine fitter was flying in the rhumbold seat on a jolly, when a major malfunction occurred. Fitter was told to bail out over Rutland Water (or other nearby lake) and did so successfully. He paddled around amongst the ducks until a rowing boat appeared. Don’t know what happened to the aircraft or crew. It obviously didn’t put him off. I think I later met him at Akrotiri as a navigator on (I think) 249 Sqn. Believe his first name was Dave and he was an ex-Halton Brat (92nd Entry?). Anyone have any more accurate information, because mine is decidedly iffy?
Anyone know when the nickname “Cranberry”, which I first saw on Pprune, came into use? It was not a name, which was in use when I was on Canberras in the 60s and early 70s.
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. . .and now it's a sticky! Good one.
To keep it going, a couple of things from the Canberra days . . .
Seems that when the PR.9s first got into their stride a favourite ploy was to ring up a fighter sqn (usually Phants) and offer themselves for practice as a Hi-Level Target. The fun came when the PR.9 guys said they'd be waiting at 55,000ft and then listening to the ensuing silence at the other end of the phone!
Canberra mates would frequently offer themselves as targets for the fighter steelies, all good sport as long as the Canberras stayed at a height the steelies could reach without running out of breath. But the Can had a big blind spot behind and below so was fairly easy to sneak up on. This was equalised when the PR.9s came in. The 9 has a periscope for the nav which looks out under the nose. This scope has a swing range of full forward to about 20 deg aft so . . . suddenly the Canberras could see an aproaching fighter and take appropriate evading action. Usually climbing away from it.
Then there was the T.4's infamous swinging ejector seat. On the ground swing it forward to let the backseater in, then swing it all the way back to let the student into the left hand seat, then the QFI got in and it was swung forward again to the central position. With that, and the positioning of the hydraulic hand-pump, it was no wonder Canberra ground crews had huge muscles on their right arms. Recall when a T.4 was doing night flying, landing every 30 mins or so to change the "student". The QFI didn't get out, he stayed strapped in his seat and we would swing him backwards to let one student get out and another to get in. Wasn't an easy task for any concerned, especially at night. I always thought those QFIs must have endured this messing around with stoic aplomb.
And another thing, who's going around re-sizing Canberra entrance doors? They seem smaller these days, have a lot of difficulty getting in - but the cockpits still smell the same.
To keep it going, a couple of things from the Canberra days . . .
Seems that when the PR.9s first got into their stride a favourite ploy was to ring up a fighter sqn (usually Phants) and offer themselves for practice as a Hi-Level Target. The fun came when the PR.9 guys said they'd be waiting at 55,000ft and then listening to the ensuing silence at the other end of the phone!
Canberra mates would frequently offer themselves as targets for the fighter steelies, all good sport as long as the Canberras stayed at a height the steelies could reach without running out of breath. But the Can had a big blind spot behind and below so was fairly easy to sneak up on. This was equalised when the PR.9s came in. The 9 has a periscope for the nav which looks out under the nose. This scope has a swing range of full forward to about 20 deg aft so . . . suddenly the Canberras could see an aproaching fighter and take appropriate evading action. Usually climbing away from it.
Then there was the T.4's infamous swinging ejector seat. On the ground swing it forward to let the backseater in, then swing it all the way back to let the student into the left hand seat, then the QFI got in and it was swung forward again to the central position. With that, and the positioning of the hydraulic hand-pump, it was no wonder Canberra ground crews had huge muscles on their right arms. Recall when a T.4 was doing night flying, landing every 30 mins or so to change the "student". The QFI didn't get out, he stayed strapped in his seat and we would swing him backwards to let one student get out and another to get in. Wasn't an easy task for any concerned, especially at night. I always thought those QFIs must have endured this messing around with stoic aplomb.
And another thing, who's going around re-sizing Canberra entrance doors? They seem smaller these days, have a lot of difficulty getting in - but the cockpits still smell the same.
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One sunny day in the Fens, sitting at the holding point.
"Cleared to line up and hold after the Canberra turning finals"
"Roger" - 'That'll be the boys coming back from the wedding at a certain Scottish Airbase.'
They were 4-up in a B2. Three bang seats. Pilot up front, operating nav in the left rear, spare pilot in the right rear and spare nav on the Rhumbold seat. Bomb bay full of wedding presents.
Nice run in and break, tight circuit, finals turn a little bit close in, but no worries so far. Little bit late dropping the flaps (Two selections. Up or 40 degrees. Nothing in between and slow to travel - 20 seconds?).
Now, a quick lesson on Canberra engine handling. The Avon Mk1 is very slow to spool up, I seem to remember that the slam check on an airtest had a max allowable time from flight idle to full power of 33 seconds - if it didn't surge. For this reason one did not reduce the engines to idle until certain of impacting the runway, not below 7000 RPM rings a bell - no percentages in those days!
Back to the story: Flaps are selected down, but still travelling and the picture is starting to look high and hot. Never mind that RPM limit, throttles to idle to lose a bit of this height. Flaps bite - Oh sh1t, now we're looking a bit low. Both throttles go forward, outside (of the turn) engine spools faster than the other, 90 degrees of bank before you can blink. OK, full rudder, get that engine to idle, other engine spools up about now and we go from 90 degrees left bank to 90 degrees right bank. Getting quite low now! Navigator in left rear is starting to think that this is not a good place to be. Grabs lower seat handle and starts to pull, then realizes that all he can see through his side window (about the size of a postcard) is grass. Changes his mind and pushes the handle back in again. No loud bang, so far so good. One last desparate attempt from the front seat sees another 180 degree roll reversal, but at this point the tip tank touches the ground.
Half a cartwheel and a pirouette, miraculously no fire and the aircraft slews to a halt. The cockpit area has basically detached from the rest of the aircraft at the pressure bulkhead and the pilot and Rhumbold seat passenger effectively fall out of the hole that appears. Pilots ejection seat detaches from its mountings and the cartridges fire as it hits the ground. The rail shoots across the runway, and seat with pilot attached obey Newtons action and reaction laws in the opposite direction. Thigh guards do a very poor job of guarding at this stage and loud snaps are heard from lower limbs.
Nav on Rhumbold seat has been dragged through the carnage and is now in quite a bad way - ruptured spleen et al.
Spare pilot steps out of right rear seat, has a quick walk around until he realises he has broken his ankle, then sits down and waits for the ambulance.
Nav unstraps VERY carefully from his seat, and steps gingerly to earth with barely a scratch on him. It takes quite a long time before we find an armourer brave enough to make the seat safe!
The good news: All four flew again eventually, and I think 2 are still wearing the uniform. Not only that, when we got the wreckage to the hangar, jacked it up and opened the bomb doors, most of the wedding presents had survived, including some rather nice cut glass.
Most impresive was the photo taken by a spotter (there was a B-52 detachment on the airfield). He captured the moment a split second before impact - 90 degrees of bank and the tip tank about a foot off the ground. I used to have a copy, but can't find it I'm afraid.
Apologies to the four involved if my memory has let me down, but I think this is pretty close. We taxied back, shut down and went to the bar!
TT
"Cleared to line up and hold after the Canberra turning finals"
"Roger" - 'That'll be the boys coming back from the wedding at a certain Scottish Airbase.'
They were 4-up in a B2. Three bang seats. Pilot up front, operating nav in the left rear, spare pilot in the right rear and spare nav on the Rhumbold seat. Bomb bay full of wedding presents.
Nice run in and break, tight circuit, finals turn a little bit close in, but no worries so far. Little bit late dropping the flaps (Two selections. Up or 40 degrees. Nothing in between and slow to travel - 20 seconds?).
Now, a quick lesson on Canberra engine handling. The Avon Mk1 is very slow to spool up, I seem to remember that the slam check on an airtest had a max allowable time from flight idle to full power of 33 seconds - if it didn't surge. For this reason one did not reduce the engines to idle until certain of impacting the runway, not below 7000 RPM rings a bell - no percentages in those days!
Back to the story: Flaps are selected down, but still travelling and the picture is starting to look high and hot. Never mind that RPM limit, throttles to idle to lose a bit of this height. Flaps bite - Oh sh1t, now we're looking a bit low. Both throttles go forward, outside (of the turn) engine spools faster than the other, 90 degrees of bank before you can blink. OK, full rudder, get that engine to idle, other engine spools up about now and we go from 90 degrees left bank to 90 degrees right bank. Getting quite low now! Navigator in left rear is starting to think that this is not a good place to be. Grabs lower seat handle and starts to pull, then realizes that all he can see through his side window (about the size of a postcard) is grass. Changes his mind and pushes the handle back in again. No loud bang, so far so good. One last desparate attempt from the front seat sees another 180 degree roll reversal, but at this point the tip tank touches the ground.
Half a cartwheel and a pirouette, miraculously no fire and the aircraft slews to a halt. The cockpit area has basically detached from the rest of the aircraft at the pressure bulkhead and the pilot and Rhumbold seat passenger effectively fall out of the hole that appears. Pilots ejection seat detaches from its mountings and the cartridges fire as it hits the ground. The rail shoots across the runway, and seat with pilot attached obey Newtons action and reaction laws in the opposite direction. Thigh guards do a very poor job of guarding at this stage and loud snaps are heard from lower limbs.
Nav on Rhumbold seat has been dragged through the carnage and is now in quite a bad way - ruptured spleen et al.
Spare pilot steps out of right rear seat, has a quick walk around until he realises he has broken his ankle, then sits down and waits for the ambulance.
Nav unstraps VERY carefully from his seat, and steps gingerly to earth with barely a scratch on him. It takes quite a long time before we find an armourer brave enough to make the seat safe!
The good news: All four flew again eventually, and I think 2 are still wearing the uniform. Not only that, when we got the wreckage to the hangar, jacked it up and opened the bomb doors, most of the wedding presents had survived, including some rather nice cut glass.
Most impresive was the photo taken by a spotter (there was a B-52 detachment on the airfield). He captured the moment a split second before impact - 90 degrees of bank and the tip tank about a foot off the ground. I used to have a copy, but can't find it I'm afraid.
Apologies to the four involved if my memory has let me down, but I think this is pretty close. We taxied back, shut down and went to the bar!
TT
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What a great thread about a great aircraft. Was on 32 Squadron, Akrotiri 63-65, one of the best tours ever. About this time there was a lot of talk about the coming Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MRCA) for short, which,I suppose eventually came along as the Tornado. We knew however it really meant Must Refurbish Canberra Again!
And we were Multi Role. The Akrotiri wing, 6,32,73,and249, were part of the UK nuclear deterrent force, as our primary, but least likely role, and with level and dive conventional iron bombing, and air to ground 2inch rocket pods, for conventional tasks. We didn't have the gunpacks on our B15/16s. 13Squadron PR9s did the recce bit.
So we had a high old time lobbing 25lb practice bombs into Episcopi Bay from LABS manoeuvres, 50ft level rocketting at the Larnaca range, 'right,left left,back a bit ' medium level bombing on El Adem range, and both dive rocket and iron bombing as well. Quite apart from the detachments to Idris (lovely photo!), and Shajah to use the nearby ranges. And all the low level over the desert one could wish for.
I remember the 13Squadron bang seat incident; I was doing the walk round inspection of my aircraft on our dispersal, next to theirs, heard a bang and saw the seat doing a gentle arc, luckily with no one attached. Talking of bang seats and drogue guns in particular, I had a drogue gun fire in a Vamp T11 while adjusting the seat for height. Turned out the bottom latch had not been engaged, and to cap it , I got in trouble with the Command Flight Safety people for not checking the seat properly! Seemed a bit hard having been frightened out of my wits, expecting to end up 60ft or so high with no visible means of support! Ashen faced PAI (me) and student climb very gently out of aircraft, and as is customary in these situations,repair to the bar.
Back to Canberras, having left Her Majesties employ, I flew a couple of German registered B2 s, based in Cologne, on photo survey and radar calibration duties, not quite as exciting as the Cyprus tour, but still a lovely aeroplane,and a gentle introduction to civil life for a couple of years.
And we were Multi Role. The Akrotiri wing, 6,32,73,and249, were part of the UK nuclear deterrent force, as our primary, but least likely role, and with level and dive conventional iron bombing, and air to ground 2inch rocket pods, for conventional tasks. We didn't have the gunpacks on our B15/16s. 13Squadron PR9s did the recce bit.
So we had a high old time lobbing 25lb practice bombs into Episcopi Bay from LABS manoeuvres, 50ft level rocketting at the Larnaca range, 'right,left left,back a bit ' medium level bombing on El Adem range, and both dive rocket and iron bombing as well. Quite apart from the detachments to Idris (lovely photo!), and Shajah to use the nearby ranges. And all the low level over the desert one could wish for.
I remember the 13Squadron bang seat incident; I was doing the walk round inspection of my aircraft on our dispersal, next to theirs, heard a bang and saw the seat doing a gentle arc, luckily with no one attached. Talking of bang seats and drogue guns in particular, I had a drogue gun fire in a Vamp T11 while adjusting the seat for height. Turned out the bottom latch had not been engaged, and to cap it , I got in trouble with the Command Flight Safety people for not checking the seat properly! Seemed a bit hard having been frightened out of my wits, expecting to end up 60ft or so high with no visible means of support! Ashen faced PAI (me) and student climb very gently out of aircraft, and as is customary in these situations,repair to the bar.
Back to Canberras, having left Her Majesties employ, I flew a couple of German registered B2 s, based in Cologne, on photo survey and radar calibration duties, not quite as exciting as the Cyprus tour, but still a lovely aeroplane,and a gentle introduction to civil life for a couple of years.
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The practice assymetric accidents came down dramatically with a change in techniques about 1970.
It went someting like:
Never approach on a runway of less than 7500ft
VCR of 600ft, never below safety speed until VCR
Never below 125kts till 300ft
Flaps always below 100ft, and no flap until throttles closed.
On take off no simulated failures until 140kts or safety speed if higher.
Practice losses then became much lower.
It went someting like:
Never approach on a runway of less than 7500ft
VCR of 600ft, never below safety speed until VCR
Never below 125kts till 300ft
Flaps always below 100ft, and no flap until throttles closed.
On take off no simulated failures until 140kts or safety speed if higher.
Practice losses then became much lower.
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Tigger_Too,
I think I know the photo you mean, the whole incident was featured in a magazine called 'Take Off' which to my shame I have to confess to collecting. If I remember, I'll have a root around & try & find it for you.
I think I know the photo you mean, the whole incident was featured in a magazine called 'Take Off' which to my shame I have to confess to collecting. If I remember, I'll have a root around & try & find it for you.
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I recall hearing about a sort of unofficial "navex" that Canberra crews used to do from El Adem - finding the "Lady be Good" Liberator in the desert to the south. Getting overhead on this famously lost USAF aircraft was supposed to "prove" a Can nav.
Anybody out there have any more gen/stories about this?
Anybody out there have any more gen/stories about this?
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A couple of tales I remember from my short stint holding on 85 Sqn in 69/70, but I don't know how true they are.
1. One story goes that a jet was transitting to or from the Med and needed to descend a bit sharpish. You will remember that the air brakes were pretty feeble and so the bomb doors were often used as well. So the pilot opened the bomb doors, forgetting that he had a baggage pannier in the bomb bay, which precluded this particular activity. Sure enough the pannier was ripped from its mountings and disappeared into space. When the dust had settled and the pannier was presumed lost forever, the insurance claim went in: 2 Moss Bross DJs plus accessories, 2 Rolex Oysters, 2 Nikons, all that sort of stuff, and the insurance company paid up. Some time later, said pannier was found in a farmer's field pretty much intact and returned with contents to the RAF. The insurance company took an interest at this point and was none too chuffed to find that it had paid out a small fortune for .... some shreddies, a couple of pairs of flip-flops and some factor 15.
2. In another, the pilot of a B2 or similar dropped his chinagraph pencil whilst at altitude, so he bent down to retrieve it and his mic/tel lead became disconnected. At this point the nav spoke to him but received no acknowledgement, and looking around the bulkhead he saw the pilot slumped over the control column, seemingly unconscious. 'Oh God, he's hypoxic. I'd better take over', thought the nav and so he unstrapped, made his way to the pilot and began unstrapping him. Meanwhile, the pilot suddenly found himself being assaulted by the nav and thought, 'Oh God, he's hypoxic. I'd better restrain him', and proceeded to beat the snot out of the him. A fair battle ensued, but I presume that they made it home.
I remember a wonderful winter scene at Cottesmore, when the weight of the snow on the tailplanes of the 20 or so OCU jets tipped the aircraft onto their tails to leave their noses pointing to the heavens.
1. One story goes that a jet was transitting to or from the Med and needed to descend a bit sharpish. You will remember that the air brakes were pretty feeble and so the bomb doors were often used as well. So the pilot opened the bomb doors, forgetting that he had a baggage pannier in the bomb bay, which precluded this particular activity. Sure enough the pannier was ripped from its mountings and disappeared into space. When the dust had settled and the pannier was presumed lost forever, the insurance claim went in: 2 Moss Bross DJs plus accessories, 2 Rolex Oysters, 2 Nikons, all that sort of stuff, and the insurance company paid up. Some time later, said pannier was found in a farmer's field pretty much intact and returned with contents to the RAF. The insurance company took an interest at this point and was none too chuffed to find that it had paid out a small fortune for .... some shreddies, a couple of pairs of flip-flops and some factor 15.
2. In another, the pilot of a B2 or similar dropped his chinagraph pencil whilst at altitude, so he bent down to retrieve it and his mic/tel lead became disconnected. At this point the nav spoke to him but received no acknowledgement, and looking around the bulkhead he saw the pilot slumped over the control column, seemingly unconscious. 'Oh God, he's hypoxic. I'd better take over', thought the nav and so he unstrapped, made his way to the pilot and began unstrapping him. Meanwhile, the pilot suddenly found himself being assaulted by the nav and thought, 'Oh God, he's hypoxic. I'd better restrain him', and proceeded to beat the snot out of the him. A fair battle ensued, but I presume that they made it home.
I remember a wonderful winter scene at Cottesmore, when the weight of the snow on the tailplanes of the 20 or so OCU jets tipped the aircraft onto their tails to leave their noses pointing to the heavens.
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In all my time, 27 years and counting, I have never witnessed as many engineering cock ups as I did in 18 months in Canberra Servicing Flight at Wyton. It is great to learn from other peoples mistakes.
All three stories below concern the same electrician!
1. One of the checks the electricians carried out, (as they dashed between 4 separate rigger teams) was a no volts check of the canopy detonators. (Before Miniature Detonating Cord - a ring of pencil like detonators were around the canopy sill to fracture the canopy before the ejection seat goes through). Well, I never did find out if the pre-printed MP (Maintenance Procedure) had a page missing, or he turned two pages over in error, bit the ignored page was the one instructing the tradesman to disconnect the detonators.
KABOOM!
2. The rigger SNCO was doing a 'quick' independant check on the Aileron trim tab which had been disconnected and reconnected for some reason, (but not adjusted). Rigger Corporal was in the PR9 cockpit. 'Okay, do it one way' says the SNCO with the ruler, and measures the movement. 'Lovely, do it the other way'...'and to the neutral position' All done and dusted, signed up and off to the crewroom for a game of Uckers...Not knowing that our jinxed electrician had been working in the cockpit on a separate job, and, as electricians and fairies do, had removed/replaced the trim switch without telling anyone. Only he refitted the switch the wrong way round. Cue one mildly surprised senior pilot on the airtest. Tech charges all round!
3. Thirdly my favourite. Cabin Pressurisation Test with that infernal rig. Well, three riggers had tried to start this thing. (This is a 250 cc petrol rig with a hand crank starter) Our star electrician approached the rig saying 'You bloody lightweight riggers, if I get this started then the beers are on you tonight' Putting his mouth over the carburettor air intake and blowing (forcing lots of fuel into the manifold) he grabs the starter handle (wrapping his thumb around the handle) Nothing for the first couple of turns but suddenly the thing fires. A look of victory on the leckys face...but the starting handle has jammed in...and he can't let go of it. What seemed like ages, but was probably half a dozen revolutions, the engine was running, with the hapless electrician flailing around like a madman. Then, still unable to let go, he manages to pull the handle out. A second look of victory from the Lecky and, grinning like a w@nking jap he raises the (still spinning) cranking handle in salute...and knocks several of his own front teeth out.
Happy Days. Many more techie disasters to relate if you request it.
SPHLC
All three stories below concern the same electrician!
1. One of the checks the electricians carried out, (as they dashed between 4 separate rigger teams) was a no volts check of the canopy detonators. (Before Miniature Detonating Cord - a ring of pencil like detonators were around the canopy sill to fracture the canopy before the ejection seat goes through). Well, I never did find out if the pre-printed MP (Maintenance Procedure) had a page missing, or he turned two pages over in error, bit the ignored page was the one instructing the tradesman to disconnect the detonators.
KABOOM!
2. The rigger SNCO was doing a 'quick' independant check on the Aileron trim tab which had been disconnected and reconnected for some reason, (but not adjusted). Rigger Corporal was in the PR9 cockpit. 'Okay, do it one way' says the SNCO with the ruler, and measures the movement. 'Lovely, do it the other way'...'and to the neutral position' All done and dusted, signed up and off to the crewroom for a game of Uckers...Not knowing that our jinxed electrician had been working in the cockpit on a separate job, and, as electricians and fairies do, had removed/replaced the trim switch without telling anyone. Only he refitted the switch the wrong way round. Cue one mildly surprised senior pilot on the airtest. Tech charges all round!
3. Thirdly my favourite. Cabin Pressurisation Test with that infernal rig. Well, three riggers had tried to start this thing. (This is a 250 cc petrol rig with a hand crank starter) Our star electrician approached the rig saying 'You bloody lightweight riggers, if I get this started then the beers are on you tonight' Putting his mouth over the carburettor air intake and blowing (forcing lots of fuel into the manifold) he grabs the starter handle (wrapping his thumb around the handle) Nothing for the first couple of turns but suddenly the thing fires. A look of victory on the leckys face...but the starting handle has jammed in...and he can't let go of it. What seemed like ages, but was probably half a dozen revolutions, the engine was running, with the hapless electrician flailing around like a madman. Then, still unable to let go, he manages to pull the handle out. A second look of victory from the Lecky and, grinning like a w@nking jap he raises the (still spinning) cranking handle in salute...and knocks several of his own front teeth out.
Happy Days. Many more techie disasters to relate if you request it.
SPHLC
Last edited by SirPeterHardingsLovechild; 29th Feb 2004 at 17:08.
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ee classic the canberra
I was on canberras in 1954 as a Nav on B2's and B6's, we were not exactly confident about the a/c as so called anoxia had claimed the lives of several crews who had tent pegged in from great heights.This fiasco carried on until one Pilot had a runaway tailplane in the nosedown position on take off. He put both legs on the instrument panel and hauled the thing back into an attitude which he could control. It was then discovered that the flying tailplane ,which was moved by an electric motor ,did run away and that the travel stops were too wide for the elevators to recover the aircraft . The stops were moved and that was the end of the "anoxia "syndrome and the loss of life .The canberra never filled me with affection , it was too cold at height especially at night , too hot during the day when low level in the summer and it could bite when mishandled - I still think I was lucky to walk away from two tours on the thing.
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Going Blind in a B8
From memoirs
The RAF carried out its hot weather trials from Idris airfield south of Tripoli, in Libya. Fighter aircraft ferried to Idris from Boscombe Down were always accompanied by another aircraft, usually a Canberra. I set off with Jock Cowan as my navigator in B8 Canberra 364 on 13 October 1956, my 30th birthday. We escorted a Swift, via Malta, for an overnight and then on to Idris the next day. We left the Swift at Idris and next day set off on a direct flight back to Boscombe Down via Tangmere.
I climbed out of Idris to about 42,000 ft and pushed the aircraft along just under buffet at 0.84 Indicated Mach Number (IMN). We were over flat cirro-stratus cloud. The sun seemed very bright and filled the cockpit with brilliant light. My eyes were squinting, even under the dark visor of the helmet. I began to lose focus with my eyes, particularly around the centre of my vision. Slowly a blank spot of vision grew in size and it became intriguing to look directly at an instrument and not be able to see it. Peripheral vision also grew a little fuzzy and I became concerned with the extent of the deterioration of vision. The Navigator was quick to share my concern.
We both knew that I would have to do an instrument descent into Tangmere. How could I do this if I couldn't read the instruments? I was forced to slow the aircraft away from compressibility buffet and tried the effects of 100 per cent oxygen. We called for actual weather conditions over France, in case I would need to make a visual let-down and landing. Our point of no return became important as we did not want to get into a position where we would have to eject, being unable to see adequately to do an instrument descent.
Thinking the glare from the sun, reflecting from the cloud beneath, may be affecting my eyes, I closed my eyes for periods and then only opened my right eye to quickly check aircraft attitude. Twenty minutes of this treatment resulted in some improvement to both eyes, but particularly the left. Soon after we crossed the coast of France near Marseille and the cirro-stratus gave way to a darker layer of alto-stratus. Slowly my vision recovered enough for me to have confidence in doing the let down into Tangmere.
I didn't really want to go via Tangmere. This was for purposes of customs clearance and I knew that, for special purposes, there was a resident customs officer in Salisbury. Consequently, I declared a Pan emergency, describing deteriorated vision from high altitude glare. This information was quickly advised to the Institute of Aviation Medicine at Farnborough. By the time I had landed at Boscombe, there were three Aviation medicine doctors en route. The subsequent eye examination and debreif was very thorough.
There had been previous reports/complaints by pilots subjected to glare but none quite as serious as mine. A darker visor was already under consideration and my experience caused its production and issue to be fast tracked. My eyes took about two weeks to return to normal.
The RAF carried out its hot weather trials from Idris airfield south of Tripoli, in Libya. Fighter aircraft ferried to Idris from Boscombe Down were always accompanied by another aircraft, usually a Canberra. I set off with Jock Cowan as my navigator in B8 Canberra 364 on 13 October 1956, my 30th birthday. We escorted a Swift, via Malta, for an overnight and then on to Idris the next day. We left the Swift at Idris and next day set off on a direct flight back to Boscombe Down via Tangmere.
I climbed out of Idris to about 42,000 ft and pushed the aircraft along just under buffet at 0.84 Indicated Mach Number (IMN). We were over flat cirro-stratus cloud. The sun seemed very bright and filled the cockpit with brilliant light. My eyes were squinting, even under the dark visor of the helmet. I began to lose focus with my eyes, particularly around the centre of my vision. Slowly a blank spot of vision grew in size and it became intriguing to look directly at an instrument and not be able to see it. Peripheral vision also grew a little fuzzy and I became concerned with the extent of the deterioration of vision. The Navigator was quick to share my concern.
We both knew that I would have to do an instrument descent into Tangmere. How could I do this if I couldn't read the instruments? I was forced to slow the aircraft away from compressibility buffet and tried the effects of 100 per cent oxygen. We called for actual weather conditions over France, in case I would need to make a visual let-down and landing. Our point of no return became important as we did not want to get into a position where we would have to eject, being unable to see adequately to do an instrument descent.
Thinking the glare from the sun, reflecting from the cloud beneath, may be affecting my eyes, I closed my eyes for periods and then only opened my right eye to quickly check aircraft attitude. Twenty minutes of this treatment resulted in some improvement to both eyes, but particularly the left. Soon after we crossed the coast of France near Marseille and the cirro-stratus gave way to a darker layer of alto-stratus. Slowly my vision recovered enough for me to have confidence in doing the let down into Tangmere.
I didn't really want to go via Tangmere. This was for purposes of customs clearance and I knew that, for special purposes, there was a resident customs officer in Salisbury. Consequently, I declared a Pan emergency, describing deteriorated vision from high altitude glare. This information was quickly advised to the Institute of Aviation Medicine at Farnborough. By the time I had landed at Boscombe, there were three Aviation medicine doctors en route. The subsequent eye examination and debreif was very thorough.
There had been previous reports/complaints by pilots subjected to glare but none quite as serious as mine. A darker visor was already under consideration and my experience caused its production and issue to be fast tracked. My eyes took about two weeks to return to normal.
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Pliadies
Were you on the Binbrook Wing?
The tailplane runaway problem was never cured inasmuch as the
electrical source of the problem was never isolated. However, an ingenious solution was eventually devised which was an aerodynamic one. By filing down the top or bottom of the plate on the back of the elevator tab, and this involved a series of flights taking readings with a spring balance fixed to the stick, eventually a situation was arrived at where full nose down trim was required to balance the aircraft at 450 knots IAS. It was reasoned that in the event of an upward runaway, the airspeed would in any case decay to a value where the aircraft could be flown without too much difficulty. This was Mod 2107. With either full up or full down tail trim the aircraft could be flown and recovered below 200 kts IAS.
In spite of all that has been said here, the Canberra was a delightful and benign aeroplane to fly, although almost always too hot or too cold, and in comparison with its contemporaries it
was neither hard work nor threatening when asymmetric. But
any aeroplane may bite if taken outside the prescribed handling
parameters. I flew it for nearly 1500 hours and enjoyed all of it.
Were you on the Binbrook Wing?
The tailplane runaway problem was never cured inasmuch as the
electrical source of the problem was never isolated. However, an ingenious solution was eventually devised which was an aerodynamic one. By filing down the top or bottom of the plate on the back of the elevator tab, and this involved a series of flights taking readings with a spring balance fixed to the stick, eventually a situation was arrived at where full nose down trim was required to balance the aircraft at 450 knots IAS. It was reasoned that in the event of an upward runaway, the airspeed would in any case decay to a value where the aircraft could be flown without too much difficulty. This was Mod 2107. With either full up or full down tail trim the aircraft could be flown and recovered below 200 kts IAS.
In spite of all that has been said here, the Canberra was a delightful and benign aeroplane to fly, although almost always too hot or too cold, and in comparison with its contemporaries it
was neither hard work nor threatening when asymmetric. But
any aeroplane may bite if taken outside the prescribed handling
parameters. I flew it for nearly 1500 hours and enjoyed all of it.
Nemesis of the Proot Dynasty
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SPHLC,
I mentioned that particular canopy incident on a recent thread regarding Court Martials.
I was the rigger NCO on the aircraft when the leccy trashed the canopy. Was stood right by the door. It took about a week before the ringing in my ears stopped! Went to his CM as well (as an observer). If you can find the CM thread, I explain what happened to cause the incident.
As a supplement to the story, the particular canopy which was trashed in the incident was special in some way (I can't remember what, specifically - think it had a high Mod No.). That Friday, I was asked to go down to Wroughton, to remove an identical canopy from a stored Canberra in one of the semi-underground hangers. I had an MT driver with me (wasn't allowed to drive air force vehicles on the public highway), who became an honourary rigger that day, as it took two of us to remove it. Next to the aircraft which we were robbing, was the all white record breaking Canberra which had flown the UK - Australia run. Wonder what happened to it?
Beeayeate,
Used to have a couple of photos of the "Lady Be Good", which the nav took for me whilst I was on a jolly with 249. Not particularly good, but they would have been even worse if I'd taken them over the navs shoulder!
I mentioned that particular canopy incident on a recent thread regarding Court Martials.
I was the rigger NCO on the aircraft when the leccy trashed the canopy. Was stood right by the door. It took about a week before the ringing in my ears stopped! Went to his CM as well (as an observer). If you can find the CM thread, I explain what happened to cause the incident.
As a supplement to the story, the particular canopy which was trashed in the incident was special in some way (I can't remember what, specifically - think it had a high Mod No.). That Friday, I was asked to go down to Wroughton, to remove an identical canopy from a stored Canberra in one of the semi-underground hangers. I had an MT driver with me (wasn't allowed to drive air force vehicles on the public highway), who became an honourary rigger that day, as it took two of us to remove it. Next to the aircraft which we were robbing, was the all white record breaking Canberra which had flown the UK - Australia run. Wonder what happened to it?
Beeayeate,
Used to have a couple of photos of the "Lady Be Good", which the nav took for me whilst I was on a jolly with 249. Not particularly good, but they would have been even worse if I'd taken them over the navs shoulder!
Last edited by Lukeafb1; 2nd Mar 2004 at 16:00.
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FJJP,
That was a palliative, not a cure - as indeed was Mod 2107 which, significantly, was introduced in 1957, 2 years after the twin pole switch Mod. We very nearly lost a Mk6 in Malaya with a downward runaway in an aircraft which was fitted with the twin pole switch !
That was a palliative, not a cure - as indeed was Mod 2107 which, significantly, was introduced in 1957, 2 years after the twin pole switch Mod. We very nearly lost a Mk6 in Malaya with a downward runaway in an aircraft which was fitted with the twin pole switch !