The other E.E. classic, the Canberra. (Merged 23rd July '04)
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Nice shot Gainsey , Like the view - and the Castle too. 
DavidG
The PR sqns in Germany were mostly tactical so, although flights near/on the corridor were undoubtably undertaken, the majority of recce flying would have been exercises against Brit and US/NATO troop movements and emplacements. Don't forget that the Germany PR blokes also did many overseas tasks as well, being detached all over the world. There is the possibility though that your dad might well have carried out one or two covert type recce missions, NATO tasks that won't, as yet, be "in the public domain". Reason I say this is that the Canberras in Germany, during your dad's first tour, were tasked with gathering intel on the "enemy". During his second tour (at the same time I was there) the Cold one was just that little bit warmer requiring constant inovative recce gathering. Further, your dad's second tour would have started during or just before the Cuba Missile crisis - RAFG was in a "high" state for that. If you can uncover your dad's Log Book that would give all sorts of background that blokes on this forum could interpret for you - and probably fill in detail!
Meanwhile, keep your dad's memory alive. The RAFG Canberra pilots and navs were amongst the bravest in the RAF. If the balloon had gone up, they all knew they wouldn't be coming back from a mission. You're right, not enough is written about those blokes or the RAFG operations.
Following Gainsey's lead, here's a pic of a 17 Sqn PR.7, WT534, showing it flying over a typical "target". (This is also scanned from a book.)
DavidG
The PR sqns in Germany were mostly tactical so, although flights near/on the corridor were undoubtably undertaken, the majority of recce flying would have been exercises against Brit and US/NATO troop movements and emplacements. Don't forget that the Germany PR blokes also did many overseas tasks as well, being detached all over the world. There is the possibility though that your dad might well have carried out one or two covert type recce missions, NATO tasks that won't, as yet, be "in the public domain". Reason I say this is that the Canberras in Germany, during your dad's first tour, were tasked with gathering intel on the "enemy". During his second tour (at the same time I was there) the Cold one was just that little bit warmer requiring constant inovative recce gathering. Further, your dad's second tour would have started during or just before the Cuba Missile crisis - RAFG was in a "high" state for that. If you can uncover your dad's Log Book that would give all sorts of background that blokes on this forum could interpret for you - and probably fill in detail!
Meanwhile, keep your dad's memory alive. The RAFG Canberra pilots and navs were amongst the bravest in the RAF. If the balloon had gone up, they all knew they wouldn't be coming back from a mission. You're right, not enough is written about those blokes or the RAFG operations.
Following Gainsey's lead, here's a pic of a 17 Sqn PR.7, WT534, showing it flying over a typical "target". (This is also scanned from a book.)
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Greek Cypriots have made provision for the dual carriageway from Limassol to Nicosia and Larnaca to be used as a runway in certain places. Single aircraft hard standings have been built at the side of the road, and runway centrelines painted along removable central crash barriers.
Senis Semper Fidelis
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DG,
Can't help with the RAF using Autobahns, but will confirm the commie's did in East Germany right up to East becomming West, have piccies to show it and it is awsome, the Autobahn from the Berlinering to Frankfurt en Oder had a special wide area with dispersal at each end and the centre, it was about 12 lanes wide, no central res, traffic just had to keep into imaginary lanes but being prepared to stop at a minutes notice, the Rooshian's soldiers achieved this by driving APC's and T55's across the carriageway at one end and you had to get off the other end as fast as you could, otherwise you would be held up by armed soldiers until big grey birds had slurped some avgas and got airborne again, this happened nearly every day, somewhere I have a load of picces of just that, will try to find em.
PeterR-B
Can't help with the RAF using Autobahns, but will confirm the commie's did in East Germany right up to East becomming West, have piccies to show it and it is awsome, the Autobahn from the Berlinering to Frankfurt en Oder had a special wide area with dispersal at each end and the centre, it was about 12 lanes wide, no central res, traffic just had to keep into imaginary lanes but being prepared to stop at a minutes notice, the Rooshian's soldiers achieved this by driving APC's and T55's across the carriageway at one end and you had to get off the other end as fast as you could, otherwise you would be held up by armed soldiers until big grey birds had slurped some avgas and got airborne again, this happened nearly every day, somewhere I have a load of picces of just that, will try to find em.
PeterR-B
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Thanks everyone for your replies; and especially to Gainesy and LesB for the PMs.
Looking through my father's logbooks, he flew WT-534 for the first time in Apr 58 during Ex Southern View, Bordeaux - Montpelier, 39N 08E - 37.30N 11.30E (which from my world atlas looks like somewhere off the coast of Portugal) - Gozo (or 9020 ... his writing was always aweful) - Luqa.
One entry in his logbook reads, "(violated A.D. 12)". Does anyone know what that was?
Other logbook entries around that period show Exercises "Brass Monkey", "Guest", "Royal Flush", "Battle Call", "Berserk", "Sunbeam", "Sassoon", "Amled" plus strange entries such as "PT. 1377" (or B77), "Form D" (several varieties ... 453, 461 etc), "Task Paderborn "(sp?).
On his second tour with 17Sqn in 1962 (he was at North Coates in the meantime) he managed to make me a hero at school by flying over the cricket pitch at Market Rasen at 250ft while my class were outside playing cricket. No-one believed it when I told them it was Dad (in fact I seem to remember being beaten up for lying), until the photos arrived a week later. Revenge was sweet!
Again, thank you all for your contributions. If anyone has any anecdotes from the era I would love to hear them.
Looking through my father's logbooks, he flew WT-534 for the first time in Apr 58 during Ex Southern View, Bordeaux - Montpelier, 39N 08E - 37.30N 11.30E (which from my world atlas looks like somewhere off the coast of Portugal) - Gozo (or 9020 ... his writing was always aweful) - Luqa.
One entry in his logbook reads, "(violated A.D. 12)". Does anyone know what that was?
Other logbook entries around that period show Exercises "Brass Monkey", "Guest", "Royal Flush", "Battle Call", "Berserk", "Sunbeam", "Sassoon", "Amled" plus strange entries such as "PT. 1377" (or B77), "Form D" (several varieties ... 453, 461 etc), "Task Paderborn "(sp?).
On his second tour with 17Sqn in 1962 (he was at North Coates in the meantime) he managed to make me a hero at school by flying over the cricket pitch at Market Rasen at 250ft while my class were outside playing cricket. No-one believed it when I told them it was Dad (in fact I seem to remember being beaten up for lying), until the photos arrived a week later. Revenge was sweet!
Again, thank you all for your contributions. If anyone has any anecdotes from the era I would love to hear them.
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DG
Canberra WT534 (PR.7) is the subject of the photo I posted, look closely at the serial. Now there's a thing, eh? Interestingly WT534 was the first PR.7 received by 17 Sqn. (The Canberra in Gainesy's pic is WH810).
Plenty of good info from your dad's log book, as Gainesy says, Royal Flush was the annual photo recce exercise - a test of operational efficiency - open to all NATO recce outfits.
Sassoon was a Photgraphic Tropy exercise which was only open to RAF recce sqns. Guest was a monthly exercise the purpose of which was to test the Command's regional air defences. (Stronghold was similar but tested UK air defences - 17 Sqn took part in one of these in September 1956). Exercise Amled was a regular exercise to test the Danish air defenses.
The A.D phrase could, I conjecture, be a reference to an Air Defence violation either on an exercise (deliberately) or by misjudgement. Others on this forum will probably tell you correctly though.
The others will probably be "local" exercises flown to develop liason skills between other RAFG sqns and the Army.
Hope these few items help. Why not do a search for the Canberra thread on the PPRuNe mil site and post your query there.
Canberra WT534 (PR.7) is the subject of the photo I posted, look closely at the serial. Now there's a thing, eh?
Interestingly WT534 was the first PR.7 received by 17 Sqn. (The Canberra in Gainesy's pic is WH810).Plenty of good info from your dad's log book, as Gainesy says, Royal Flush was the annual photo recce exercise - a test of operational efficiency - open to all NATO recce outfits.
Sassoon was a Photgraphic Tropy exercise which was only open to RAF recce sqns. Guest was a monthly exercise the purpose of which was to test the Command's regional air defences. (Stronghold was similar but tested UK air defences - 17 Sqn took part in one of these in September 1956). Exercise Amled was a regular exercise to test the Danish air defenses.
The A.D phrase could, I conjecture, be a reference to an Air Defence violation either on an exercise (deliberately) or by misjudgement. Others on this forum will probably tell you correctly though.
The others will probably be "local" exercises flown to develop liason skills between other RAFG sqns and the Army.
Hope these few items help. Why not do a search for the Canberra thread on the PPRuNe mil site and post your query there.
Cool Mod
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I was just about to say that there is another thread on Mil that is extensive in detail. I am a mind to avoid another thread on the Canberra and will probably merge this one with the Mil thread.
It certainly is, and has been, a very interesting topic. Wish I had flown one!
It certainly is, and has been, a very interesting topic. Wish I had flown one!
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Canberras in Germany
The lead post on this thread reminded me of an occasion when flying Comet 2s on 216 back in the late 50s. The boss received a beautiful glossy aerial pic in the post of a Comet taken from vertically above 'over eastern West Germany'. It was sent by a Swift FR guy from 79 if my memory serves me right. The accompanying letter said 'I was flying along the other day, spotted one of your Comets and took the attached photo which I thought you might like. I am by the way an NZ pilot with the RAF shortly due for DOMCOL leave in NZ and wondered if there was any chance of a lift home!!' Only thing was it wasn't one of ours - a sneaky pete festooned with aerials from that other Sqn in Lincolnshire. Not only was the aircraft shown in perfect focussed detail but so was the ground 35000ft below. Poor guy had an instant interview with gentlemen in long black coats and SIB. I don't believe we ever took him home!
Guest
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"Brass Monkey", as I remember, was not an exercise but a loud, metallic, slightly frenzied, American accented shout in ones headset if the aircraft you were operating had passed over the equivalent of the West German DMZ and was still heading East.
Not of course that I ever heard it myself - we were too low.
Not of course that I ever heard it myself - we were too low.
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Brass Monkey is still in use urge pilots to check their position, an/or b@gger off in the oposite direction of a "sensitive" border.
To avoid Gr.7s piloted by sailors from flying into Sweden, is one use......
To avoid Gr.7s piloted by sailors from flying into Sweden, is one use......
