NCA and WSOp
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NCA and WSOp
I'm a 23 yr old graduate wanting a career in the RAF as NCA (WSOp EW or ACO). Having spent loads of time in Reserve Forces(2 yrs UAS, 2yrs URNU and currently 1.5 yrs RNR), this is definately the life I want. Is it all it is cracked up to be? What do OASC look for in a potential Sergeant? I have already failed 2 AIBs for the RN.... Is this going to reflect badly on me????
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AIB will obviously give you good experience. My daughter did both. The essential difference is the AIB water is wet and cold. The RAF water is warmer and dry. Also, when you have constructed a piece of apparatus you all take time out while health and safety kick in.
Now why did you wash out at AIB? Be honest. As a graduate with a decent degree, not underwater basket weaving, they will suspect you are overqualified as NCA. Maybe you are looking for the easy option; glamourous life and no responsibility.
A poncho and no food for 3 days on Otterburn would soon disabuse you of that.
No you would have to come up with a cracking reason why you would be gods gift to airborne electronics. You have an abiding interest in radar theeory, prf, arp etc and know all there is to know about electronic warfare; ditto anti-submarine warfare and maritime ops.
Ordinary sods with the minimum qualifications are different. The system expects them to know didly squat and will teach them.
Now why did you wash out at AIB? Be honest. As a graduate with a decent degree, not underwater basket weaving, they will suspect you are overqualified as NCA. Maybe you are looking for the easy option; glamourous life and no responsibility.
A poncho and no food for 3 days on Otterburn would soon disabuse you of that.
No you would have to come up with a cracking reason why you would be gods gift to airborne electronics. You have an abiding interest in radar theeory, prf, arp etc and know all there is to know about electronic warfare; ditto anti-submarine warfare and maritime ops.
Ordinary sods with the minimum qualifications are different. The system expects them to know didly squat and will teach them.
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In Reply to Pontius Navigator and Mike Jenvey:
Thanks for the prompt response guys, Well here goes:
1. I bombed out of the AIB 1st time round due to my Psychometrics,( not my spelling!!!) I couldn't long divide, long multiply etc. They told me I was motivated, keen, sincere in my reasons to join, but my effective intellect let me down.
2. 2nd time round, the Captain of the board, said my leadership had been shaky and my interview too "rehearsed". I felt the de-brief was far too ambiguous and have requested a full breakdown. His comment at the end of the de-brief was " We don't feel you have the potential to be an officer in the RN, but feel you would be an asset to any armed force as an NCO, either as NCA in the RAF or as an artificer in the RN". So, what do I do???
3. I have always wanted to join the military, like most young lads it was to be a pilot, but my aptitude is pants. No for Pilot and WSO/Observer. NCA is really my only other option. Flying isn't the only attraction( or the main one either ). I want to join the RAF/RN for all the other reasons, the lifestyle, the career opportunities, the responsibility, the travel and most of all the excitement and variety. I've been stuck in an office job for the last year since graduation and I'm pulling my hair out!!
4. At the moment I am a communicator in the RNR, I thought that may have some relevance to the job of a WSOp(EW), I deal with Teletype, Voice Comms etc In the end, I'd be happy doing any NCA role, be it ALM on a Tristar or a WSOp on a Nimrod R1.
So, what do I do now? I think I should wait for my Breakdown from the AIB first, so that I can see where my weaker areas are. NCA is something I really want to do, any further help or assistance would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks for the prompt response guys, Well here goes:
1. I bombed out of the AIB 1st time round due to my Psychometrics,( not my spelling!!!) I couldn't long divide, long multiply etc. They told me I was motivated, keen, sincere in my reasons to join, but my effective intellect let me down.
2. 2nd time round, the Captain of the board, said my leadership had been shaky and my interview too "rehearsed". I felt the de-brief was far too ambiguous and have requested a full breakdown. His comment at the end of the de-brief was " We don't feel you have the potential to be an officer in the RN, but feel you would be an asset to any armed force as an NCO, either as NCA in the RAF or as an artificer in the RN". So, what do I do???
3. I have always wanted to join the military, like most young lads it was to be a pilot, but my aptitude is pants. No for Pilot and WSO/Observer. NCA is really my only other option. Flying isn't the only attraction( or the main one either ). I want to join the RAF/RN for all the other reasons, the lifestyle, the career opportunities, the responsibility, the travel and most of all the excitement and variety. I've been stuck in an office job for the last year since graduation and I'm pulling my hair out!!
4. At the moment I am a communicator in the RNR, I thought that may have some relevance to the job of a WSOp(EW), I deal with Teletype, Voice Comms etc In the end, I'd be happy doing any NCA role, be it ALM on a Tristar or a WSOp on a Nimrod R1.
So, what do I do now? I think I should wait for my Breakdown from the AIB first, so that I can see where my weaker areas are. NCA is something I really want to do, any further help or assistance would be greatly appreciated.
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What do I do now?????
Pick yourself up, dust yourself down AND GO FOR IT!!
Apply for NCA in the RAF and see what happens. By the time your AIB stuff comes through you will still be waiting for an interview and tests at OASC. What have you to lose?
You may not have the aptitude to be aircrew of any sort. That's not meant to be nasty, but could well be a fact of life. I have been involved with NCA recruitment and training and for every bum on a seat a whole lot of bums failed the tests or interviews etc etc.
But if you don't apply you will never become NCA!!! If you do apply you have as much chance as anyone else!!
I think they still do NCA visits for potential candidates at the school at Cranwell. Get yourself on one!!
Good luck.
Pick yourself up, dust yourself down AND GO FOR IT!!
Apply for NCA in the RAF and see what happens. By the time your AIB stuff comes through you will still be waiting for an interview and tests at OASC. What have you to lose?
You may not have the aptitude to be aircrew of any sort. That's not meant to be nasty, but could well be a fact of life. I have been involved with NCA recruitment and training and for every bum on a seat a whole lot of bums failed the tests or interviews etc etc.
But if you don't apply you will never become NCA!!! If you do apply you have as much chance as anyone else!!
I think they still do NCA visits for potential candidates at the school at Cranwell. Get yourself on one!!
Good luck.
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Now we are hetting somewhere. OASC will be highly unimpressed that the AIR is selecting you for RAF NCA.
They would much rather make the selection themselves. Don't shut your options down before you enter the race. As far as brevets go, NCA WSOp will limit you to the north of Scotland for the foreseeable future. Do you like ski-ing? Would you marry a Scot, that is, if she would marry an English man?
WSO OTOH could see you in a cockpit for the next 15 years of so, after that . . .
Now pilot. Well what more can I say?
Officer aircrew are officers first, aircrew second, they say. But only aircrew have the aptitude to be aircrew.
At interview remember the stock answers. Why did you chose the navy first? Why did you fail the navy twice? Why have you picked the air force as 3rd choice? Get these right and you have done half the interview.
I was doing the relaxing mouth music bit with a nav stude. "Navy eh!, Why did you leave and join the air force?"
"Well I was doing the basic observer course and I heard all the Sea King obs saying how often they crashed. I thought it was a bit too risky so opted out. "
End of conversation. How do you ask what he thinks of flying at 100 feet and warp six, straight and level, popping JP233 all over the place? This was just 3 years before GWI. I guess he was too young for GWI but just right for GWII if he was still in.
They would much rather make the selection themselves. Don't shut your options down before you enter the race. As far as brevets go, NCA WSOp will limit you to the north of Scotland for the foreseeable future. Do you like ski-ing? Would you marry a Scot, that is, if she would marry an English man?
WSO OTOH could see you in a cockpit for the next 15 years of so, after that . . .
Now pilot. Well what more can I say?
Officer aircrew are officers first, aircrew second, they say. But only aircrew have the aptitude to be aircrew.
At interview remember the stock answers. Why did you chose the navy first? Why did you fail the navy twice? Why have you picked the air force as 3rd choice? Get these right and you have done half the interview.
I was doing the relaxing mouth music bit with a nav stude. "Navy eh!, Why did you leave and join the air force?"
"Well I was doing the basic observer course and I heard all the Sea King obs saying how often they crashed. I thought it was a bit too risky so opted out. "
End of conversation. How do you ask what he thinks of flying at 100 feet and warp six, straight and level, popping JP233 all over the place? This was just 3 years before GWI. I guess he was too young for GWI but just right for GWII if he was still in.
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Pontius,
Very good issues you've raised there. When I last did OASC( 1997), I was offered the chance to go NCA, in my youthful arrogance I basically said F**k OFF!, who wants to do that!! Oh how the tables have turned!
As I mentioned before, WSOp(EW or ACO) was just a thought bearing in mind my "trade" in the RNR. I would be happy with any WSOp role. All I can do is go back to OASC try my hand at the aptitude and see what happens. How different is the selection for Officer and NCA? Should I focus all my efforts as if going for Officer? Should I aim for Officer standard although going for Sergeant?
Very good issues you've raised there. When I last did OASC( 1997), I was offered the chance to go NCA, in my youthful arrogance I basically said F**k OFF!, who wants to do that!! Oh how the tables have turned!
As I mentioned before, WSOp(EW or ACO) was just a thought bearing in mind my "trade" in the RNR. I would be happy with any WSOp role. All I can do is go back to OASC try my hand at the aptitude and see what happens. How different is the selection for Officer and NCA? Should I focus all my efforts as if going for Officer? Should I aim for Officer standard although going for Sergeant?
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"Should I aim for Officer standard although going for Sergeant?"
You will never get to be NCA if you set your "standards" sights that fuc@in low
all spelling mistakes are "df2 alcohol induced
"Should I aim for Officer standard although going for Sergeant?"
You will never get to be NCA if you set your "standards" sights that fuc@in low
all spelling mistakes are "df2 alcohol induced
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Hi
Just dropped on here to see what's going on and see if there's anything about Nimrods
. Glad to hear my web page is still being put to good use, though I expected that coz I'm still getting a couple of emails a month from hopefuls (dunno what I can tell them though!).
I've been having serious thoughts about WSOp again. It's getting towards three years since I failed at OASC. I joined the TA as they suggested and also took up gliding, I've also had a flight on a Nimrod, which was brilliant. I never wrote to the guys who sertup that flight for me because I wanted to wait until I had applied and been accepted, feel really bad about that coz it was the best thing I have ever done in my life.
I'm now working in a job I find boring and also doing an MSc part time. The only thing that really enthuses me at the moment is flying gliders at the weekend.
I know I've asked this before, but are they still taking people on for WSOp? Wouldn't they say I too am looking for an easy option? Then again, I can't be a pilot/loadie (eyesight) or nav (legs too long!) and I just want to fly.
Just dropped on here to see what's going on and see if there's anything about Nimrods
. Glad to hear my web page is still being put to good use, though I expected that coz I'm still getting a couple of emails a month from hopefuls (dunno what I can tell them though!).I've been having serious thoughts about WSOp again. It's getting towards three years since I failed at OASC. I joined the TA as they suggested and also took up gliding, I've also had a flight on a Nimrod, which was brilliant. I never wrote to the guys who sertup that flight for me because I wanted to wait until I had applied and been accepted, feel really bad about that coz it was the best thing I have ever done in my life.
I'm now working in a job I find boring and also doing an MSc part time. The only thing that really enthuses me at the moment is flying gliders at the weekend.
I know I've asked this before, but are they still taking people on for WSOp? Wouldn't they say I too am looking for an easy option? Then again, I can't be a pilot/loadie (eyesight) or nav (legs too long!) and I just want to fly.
Heres the dilema. Been going for NCA for four years. 'summer colds now gone!'
Age 29, just been told that Pilot is now open for serving forces members until the age of 31.What does one do? Do you go hell for leather learning all the loadie stuff and hope you score well enough for pilot and maybe offered it. Or do you from, the onset, tell them that you wish to go for pilot andput ALM as 2nd choice??
Age 29, just been told that Pilot is now open for serving forces members until the age of 31.What does one do? Do you go hell for leather learning all the loadie stuff and hope you score well enough for pilot and maybe offered it. Or do you from, the onset, tell them that you wish to go for pilot andput ALM as 2nd choice??
Nothing to do with me, but in the interests of trying to be helpful I came across this earlier this evening...
Leading the way
PS What RNR "trade" are you refering to?
Leading the way
PS What RNR "trade" are you refering to?
Within reason, the number of branch choices you list on your application has no detrimental impact on your assessment - but you do need to show that you know something about all of your choices in the interview. It doesn't matter whether you are going for a commission (in any branch) or NCA, if you pass the essential medical/aptitude requirements for your choices and go on to Part 2, you are all treated exactly the same! At the end OASC first of all decide whether you are selectable. The qualities looked for are the same for officer and NCA - it's the relative strengths and weaknesses that you display than determine whether you are more suited to one or the other, or to a particular branch - and your aptitude scores and level of fitness are all taken into account. If you are assessed as 'not selectable', you get a 'Sorry, no thank you this time' letter. If you are assessed as selectable, you are then considered for your branch choices, including NCA if applicable IN THE ORDER YOU SPECIFIED. Thus you are only looked at for your second (or third) choice if you have already been considered and rejected for your first (or first and second) choice(s). If you have only one choice, that's all you are considered for.
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Don't shut your options down before you enter the race. As far as brevets go, NCA WSOp will limit you to the north of Scotland for the foreseeable future. Do you like ski-ing? Would you marry a Scot, that is, if she would marry an English man?
Wannabe,
There is far more to life than the north of Scotland for WSOP (EW). Many studes on graduation from Cranwell are now going direct to Waddington, E3 and R1, SAR at Valley as well as Kinloss. Chatting to a friend from Cranwell recently, they had difficulty finding a volunteer for Waddington, all the course wanted to stick together and go to Kinloss.
Having seen both places, in my opinion, squadron life is far more enjoyable at Kinloss, though the job is not necesssarily as rewarding. I would say that wherever you end up, you will enjoy it though.
good luck
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Sorry to go over old ground again, I 've got my initial filter interview for my NCA selection on Wednesday 17th and the one question relating to ALL of my previous posts, that is bugging me is the inevitable:
" Why are you wanting to join the RAF after 2 failures with the RN??"
I've got a few ideas going around in my head , EG: My continual desire to pursue a career in military aviation and my desire to have a career with a bit of responsibility /teamwork etc
Just wanted to get a few ideas from the older and bolder among you who may have experience of this kind of situation!!
I await you're wit and wisdom
" Why are you wanting to join the RAF after 2 failures with the RN??"
I've got a few ideas going around in my head , EG: My continual desire to pursue a career in military aviation and my desire to have a career with a bit of responsibility /teamwork etc
Just wanted to get a few ideas from the older and bolder
among you who may have experience of this kind of situation!!I await you're wit and wisdom
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Be your own man and do not try to second guess the system, for they will see straight through you.
You either have what it takes or not, give it your all and accept the outcome.
T_M
but not for long
You either have what it takes or not, give it your all and accept the outcome.
T_M
but not for long
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WW
You mentioned before that one of the marks against you had been the interview was too rehearsed. It sounds as if you are making the same mistake. We cant tell you why you are wanting to join the RAF after 2 failures with the RN, you know the reason for that, tell the board the truth.
They will see through people who are spouting bollocks and trying to flannel them with the "right" answer.
You mentioned before that one of the marks against you had been the interview was too rehearsed. It sounds as if you are making the same mistake. We cant tell you why you are wanting to join the RAF after 2 failures with the RN, you know the reason for that, tell the board the truth.
They will see through people who are spouting bollocks and trying to flannel them with the "right" answer.
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NCA and WSOp
WW
How did you get on? I was involved in AA/NCA and navigator/WSO training until a few months ago. In my initial brief to all the students I attempted to get the message across that no-one was any better than them, it was just that some us were suited to flying and others were not. Every potential NCA/WSO started with the same chance - it was up to them to look inside themselves and see if they had what it takes inside them.
I can assure you that if you are successful in reaching 55(R) Sqn then you will not be joining a holiday camp. However, if you have the 'right stuff' and can learn then there is a place for you as aircrew in the RAF. This does not mean that you have to be the same as everyone else but that you have yto havew the moral courage to be yourself.
Unfortunately, not all thoses selected find the reserves to complete the course - we would probably describe this a a 'lack of sufficient capacity'. This is unfortunate but to be expected as what you will be asked to do is not easy and maybe even quite wacky at times. Even if you are found unsuitable during training, I believe you will have gained a lot from the experience.
Good luck
D-J
How did you get on? I was involved in AA/NCA and navigator/WSO training until a few months ago. In my initial brief to all the students I attempted to get the message across that no-one was any better than them, it was just that some us were suited to flying and others were not. Every potential NCA/WSO started with the same chance - it was up to them to look inside themselves and see if they had what it takes inside them.
I can assure you that if you are successful in reaching 55(R) Sqn then you will not be joining a holiday camp. However, if you have the 'right stuff' and can learn then there is a place for you as aircrew in the RAF. This does not mean that you have to be the same as everyone else but that you have yto havew the moral courage to be yourself.
Unfortunately, not all thoses selected find the reserves to complete the course - we would probably describe this a a 'lack of sufficient capacity'. This is unfortunate but to be expected as what you will be asked to do is not easy and maybe even quite wacky at times. Even if you are found unsuitable during training, I believe you will have gained a lot from the experience.
Good luck
D-J
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D-J,
Thankfully I've passed the initial filter interview and am now waiting for a date at OASC. I also have myself on an AAITC acquaint visit in the next 2 months, which I'm looking forward to!!
Thankfully I've passed the initial filter interview and am now waiting for a date at OASC. I also have myself on an AAITC acquaint visit in the next 2 months, which I'm looking forward to!!
