Movers v Loadies (Merged)
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Didntdoit,
" Not all Zobs think they know the Movs trade."
I accept what you say but it is a fact of life that it is the few bad experiences that tend to turn into long lasting bad impressions.
" Not all Zobs think they know the Movs trade."
I accept what you say but it is a fact of life that it is the few bad experiences that tend to turn into long lasting bad impressions.
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DontDoit
My comments merely came from reading what appeared to be an interesting topic, particularly as I didn't know a great deal about either branch, but as ever the whole thread just appeared to descend into a pissing contest.
Merely expressing an opinion old chap....obviously struck a chord though.
DS
My comments merely came from reading what appeared to be an interesting topic, particularly as I didn't know a great deal about either branch, but as ever the whole thread just appeared to descend into a pissing contest.
Merely expressing an opinion old chap....obviously struck a chord though.
DS
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DS
No chord struck, especially as I wasn't urinating in public. Anyway, "pointless" does not appear to indicate enjoyment. Nice try.
E5
Tarring. Brush? As you said, a few, not all. If the reverse were applied......?
Nuff-said.
No chord struck, especially as I wasn't urinating in public. Anyway, "pointless" does not appear to indicate enjoyment. Nice try.
E5
Tarring. Brush? As you said, a few, not all. If the reverse were applied......?
Nuff-said.
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Heard a rumour that the unskilled job of moving boxes and driving M.T. into Hercs is being considered to go into the higher pay band while there are still some skilled trades in the low pay bracket(squippers ect.)
Unluckily for the other trades the 'Muppets' have an officership that extends right up in terms of the airship ranks. God knows why but they infect the RAF like ravenous LICE. Until the other trades are as well represented as the muppets then higher trade bands for 'em will be the norm!!
And for what? Check your bags sir? Did you pack them yourself? Reply" Oh yes, like I am the governor on India in the colonial days. Patek packs my bags for me??!!!" Of course I packed them myself you feckwit!
Lash this box here loadie? errr, yes.
Well worth higher rate...........not!
And for what? Check your bags sir? Did you pack them yourself? Reply" Oh yes, like I am the governor on India in the colonial days. Patek packs my bags for me??!!!" Of course I packed them myself you feckwit!
Lash this box here loadie? errr, yes.
Well worth higher rate...........not!
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Grim - think you will find that the senior Supply officer who is Movements qualified is an Air Cdre. Yes right up there with all the multi stared Engineers.
As for higher pay band trades...the skilled trades of Egg flipping are on a par with RAF Regt Cpls/Sgt and engineers.
As for higher pay band trades...the skilled trades of Egg flipping are on a par with RAF Regt Cpls/Sgt and engineers.
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Do not get me started on the subject of paybands as to my eternal disgust a Sgt Chef is paid more than a Sgt Aircraft Technician is. The supposed reason? Sgt Chefs are sent away on dets a lot more. well the way I see it is they will reach high band LSSA quicker and be paid for when they are away. They also will hit the 280 /380 day bonuses quicker. Oh and they wont have to do aircraft control system independants, which keep our little pink bodies from dropping out of the sky and potentially killing hundreds!!
Oh and while I am on my soapbox are bandsmen still being paid overtime for playing at mess functions using RAF instruments, music, uniforms???
Movers v loadys? I can honestly say it is rare for a mover to get a round of teas in when visiting the galley, where most loadies seem to try and float your back teeth in the stuff!
Oh and while I am on my soapbox are bandsmen still being paid overtime for playing at mess functions using RAF instruments, music, uniforms???
Movers v loadys? I can honestly say it is rare for a mover to get a round of teas in when visiting the galley, where most loadies seem to try and float your back teeth in the stuff!
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According to http://www.rafcom.co.uk/pay_allowanc...ding/tg_15.cfm
All Sgts in TG 1,2, 3and 5 are paid the Higher rate of pay the same as Sgt Chefs. Not sure where you got your figures from Country but....
All Sgts in TG 1,2, 3and 5 are paid the Higher rate of pay the same as Sgt Chefs. Not sure where you got your figures from Country but....
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Grim. As a member of the smallest single branch in the RAF (SUPPLY), I can see you have a few unresolved issues with those of my branch that have the Movements annotation (self included).
I suggest you step from the hallowed flight deck every now and then and get some idea of what those in the Branch and, more importantly Trade do - some of it is actually away from the aircraft! Either that, or stay up there and drink yer tea!
Glad someone else pointed out that Air Cdre is the top Supply rank. Of course, all flight deck crew are blessed with wit, charm and the ability to never have a bad day/night/morning after/landing etc.
Usual advice from this end - someone give Grim a hug - think he needs it.
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Went on a det once. Went to Holland. Too many aircrew on the Sqn to fly in the helos across so the nice chaps from the light blue agreed to take the extra aircrew and the maintainers there in an Albert. Albert arrives at home base. Mover Corporal doing the check in.
Mover "Sir, you cant take that knife with you"
Me "Why not ?"
Mover "Dangerous Cargo sir"
Me "Its my aircrew knife. I am aircrew. I am on a duty flight out to a period of detached duty. You have very kindly provided us with an aircraft to get us there so I've got my flying suit on. Why cant I wear my knife, part of my survival equipment etc etc"
(plus the old ones were only ever useful at peeling oranges, nothing else!)
Mover "Dangerous cargo sir, etc etc"
Do they just hate aircrew/Officers/Navy chaps or are they just a bunch of power seeking losers aimed to make your life hell?
Just a question.
Oggin
As a postscript, at end of det I self financed trip to different part of the country to attend own offspring's christening. I flew out of Schipol airport with my aircrew knife in my hand luggage - declared it (and my military ID) to the Dutch authorities who couldnt have been more helpful. No snags at all.
Mover "Sir, you cant take that knife with you"
Me "Why not ?"
Mover "Dangerous Cargo sir"
Me "Its my aircrew knife. I am aircrew. I am on a duty flight out to a period of detached duty. You have very kindly provided us with an aircraft to get us there so I've got my flying suit on. Why cant I wear my knife, part of my survival equipment etc etc"
(plus the old ones were only ever useful at peeling oranges, nothing else!)
Mover "Dangerous cargo sir, etc etc"
Do they just hate aircrew/Officers/Navy chaps or are they just a bunch of power seeking losers aimed to make your life hell?
Just a question.
Oggin
As a postscript, at end of det I self financed trip to different part of the country to attend own offspring's christening. I flew out of Schipol airport with my aircrew knife in my hand luggage - declared it (and my military ID) to the Dutch authorities who couldnt have been more helpful. No snags at all.
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Aircrew knives / Movers. Now THAT is a new topic.
When you have to enforce regs that are from above - way above the pay band of a Cpl Mover - you do it. Do you think that regulation was made up by that Cpl? Did it make his life easier to do that? No it bl00dy didn't! Were you a passenger on that flight? Yes. Do passengers need to carry knives? No.
You were a bl00dy passenger, not operating crew.
I felt a complete tw0nker when my guys were taking Gerbers, Leathermen etc off people to fly in a VC-10, but it was not difficult. I am capable of free thought, but there are so many regs for travel in aircraft (PAX and freight) that it is best to follow them fairly well (don't want to upset the captain). You may not care if said Cpl ends up in prison, but I do.
Think you'll find things are a little more chilled these days. I never agreed with giving aircrew knives - they'll just get bored and cut themselves.
And relax.
When you have to enforce regs that are from above - way above the pay band of a Cpl Mover - you do it. Do you think that regulation was made up by that Cpl? Did it make his life easier to do that? No it bl00dy didn't! Were you a passenger on that flight? Yes. Do passengers need to carry knives? No.
You were a bl00dy passenger, not operating crew.
I felt a complete tw0nker when my guys were taking Gerbers, Leathermen etc off people to fly in a VC-10, but it was not difficult. I am capable of free thought, but there are so many regs for travel in aircraft (PAX and freight) that it is best to follow them fairly well (don't want to upset the captain). You may not care if said Cpl ends up in prison, but I do.
Think you'll find things are a little more chilled these days. I never agreed with giving aircrew knives - they'll just get bored and cut themselves.
And relax.
Jawohl, Herr Obersturmbahnfuehrer! Zu befehl! Orders from above - zees ve must obey vizout kvestion....
Don't be an utter ar$e. Aircrew flying clothing for those who don't wear external turning trousers ('speed jeans' in current yoofspeak) includes a survival knife in a sheath; this is restrained with a cord tell-tale. Leave it alone - and tell your spotty little idiots to understand that aircrew are unilkely ever to hijack the aeroplane in which they're travelling.
W@nker - no stick, no vote. "The role of the RAF is to fly and to fight. The role of those who don't is to SUPPORT those who do"- not to irritate them with utterly banal and totally irrelevant rules. Never lose sight of that!
Don't be an utter ar$e. Aircrew flying clothing for those who don't wear external turning trousers ('speed jeans' in current yoofspeak) includes a survival knife in a sheath; this is restrained with a cord tell-tale. Leave it alone - and tell your spotty little idiots to understand that aircrew are unilkely ever to hijack the aeroplane in which they're travelling.
W@nker - no stick, no vote. "The role of the RAF is to fly and to fight. The role of those who don't is to SUPPORT those who do"- not to irritate them with utterly banal and totally irrelevant rules. Never lose sight of that!
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Remember a case in 1991 when an ALM refused to take some dangerous air cargo back to the UK because (as the regulations said) "Dangerous Air Crago" was not written in RED ink. Everything else was OK apart from that. She was told that the words were not written in the required colour because the photocopier was black and white. This still did not make her see sense and it was only after the intervention of a Sqn Ldr ALM that she saw reason and took the load.
Petty rules or flight safety issues...who will complain the most when a "passenger" uses their knife during the flight. Not the mover or RAFP ATSy -we will be safe on the ground. So its OK for others to bend or break the rules because they dont really apply to you.
On another topic from a previous moan about Movers and Akrotiri - The airfield opening hours are changing in a couple of days - back to their holiday camp hours. So lots more very early departures from the UK.
Whose decision was this? - not the Movers as they are still manned for 24 hours opening.
Petty rules or flight safety issues...who will complain the most when a "passenger" uses their knife during the flight. Not the mover or RAFP ATSy -we will be safe on the ground. So its OK for others to bend or break the rules because they dont really apply to you.
On another topic from a previous moan about Movers and Akrotiri - The airfield opening hours are changing in a couple of days - back to their holiday camp hours. So lots more very early departures from the UK.
Whose decision was this? - not the Movers as they are still manned for 24 hours opening.
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BEagle
I cannot recall any of your posts that have given me a WTF moment, but I think, respectfully, that you miss a point.
The modern military, whilst fairly tolerant on a lot of issues, is one where you ignore rules on your own shout and the lower you are in the chain, the more stuff comes down and sticks. It's not about the Nuremberg principle; its about the fact that the firm tends not to enjoy it, or support it, when people do what they want and there ain’t half a lot of finger pointing when it goes Pete Tong.
And before you start, I know that most in uniform have, at one time or another, fractured the odd reg. Which can be seen as healthy use of initiative, etc. However, the 11th commandment always applies. I have never seen the need for the knife/LSJ ruling myself and tended to have a problem justifying it. However, I am sure that there is the odd snippet from the 318 that you had issues with.
Sure, some of the JNCOs, SACs, Ground Hostees, ATSy (then again, maybe not ATSy
) may have given the impression that they enjoyed every aspect of their time on pax check-in. In my experience however, especially on a base where you shared the life with 4-sqns worth of electric flick knife guys, the guys on the ground did not see a lot of sense in it and every once in a while, had to exercise common. Which as you know, can 
ps - JohnB - The same who I met outside Patrons at RIAT?
I cannot recall any of your posts that have given me a WTF moment, but I think, respectfully, that you miss a point.
The modern military, whilst fairly tolerant on a lot of issues, is one where you ignore rules on your own shout and the lower you are in the chain, the more stuff comes down and sticks. It's not about the Nuremberg principle; its about the fact that the firm tends not to enjoy it, or support it, when people do what they want and there ain’t half a lot of finger pointing when it goes Pete Tong.
And before you start, I know that most in uniform have, at one time or another, fractured the odd reg. Which can be seen as healthy use of initiative, etc. However, the 11th commandment always applies. I have never seen the need for the knife/LSJ ruling myself and tended to have a problem justifying it. However, I am sure that there is the odd snippet from the 318 that you had issues with.
Sure, some of the JNCOs, SACs, Ground Hostees, ATSy (then again, maybe not ATSy
) may have given the impression that they enjoyed every aspect of their time on pax check-in. In my experience however, especially on a base where you shared the life with 4-sqns worth of electric flick knife guys, the guys on the ground did not see a lot of sense in it and every once in a while, had to exercise common. Which as you know, can ps - JohnB - The same who I met outside Patrons at RIAT?
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Mr C Hinecap
I have to agree with BEagle.
Its attitudes like yours that give the Movers the bad name they have. A bit of common sense now and again would work wonders.
Do you really think a Commissioned Aircrew Officer on a duty trip is going to use his aircrew knife (personally issued to him/her by the MOD) to threaten the crew? Yes of course they are (....not!)
Its quite true that the Junior Rank individual will do what he/she is told. Therefore they need some decent leadership at the SNCO and Officer level. Quite obviously lacking in my limited experience.
Oggin
p.s. Just to get you really going I think RAF Loadies and RN Aircrewmen are awesome dudes - keep up the good work
I have to agree with BEagle.
Its attitudes like yours that give the Movers the bad name they have. A bit of common sense now and again would work wonders.
Do you really think a Commissioned Aircrew Officer on a duty trip is going to use his aircrew knife (personally issued to him/her by the MOD) to threaten the crew? Yes of course they are (....not!)
Its quite true that the Junior Rank individual will do what he/she is told. Therefore they need some decent leadership at the SNCO and Officer level. Quite obviously lacking in my limited experience.
Oggin
p.s. Just to get you really going I think RAF Loadies and RN Aircrewmen are awesome dudes - keep up the good work
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Oggin,
Your last post hits the nail on the head there fella These banal rules, that are oft quoted as a defence by those so short sighted, fail to take stock of the big picture
We have a system that is based on it's civvie equivalent and bears absolutely no relevance to what we in the militarty get up to on a day to day basis. We emplane, on the whole, military people who are going about there miltary business around the world. They are simply carrying items they would normally utilise in their day to day environment and bearing in mind we, despite the ever increasing "touchy feely EO" service we live in, do not currently employ muslim fundamentalists or members of any other such terror groups I fail to see what the problem is.
No doubt some one from the mover fraternity will now tell us that this excellant rule is in place to stop a passenger running amok and damaging the aircraft or others on board
b@@l@cks
Firstly when did that last happen.
Secondly there are enough other items in the back of our AT fleet, chains - tensioners - fire extinguishers - DAC..............f@ck me Albert has two fire axes completly exposed to anyone who wishes to wield one in anger so the danger posed by a gerber or aircrew knife pales into complete insignificance.
I would suggest that if Mr C and the like really thought this was a rule that could be dispensed with, then bearing the amount of times the JSP 335 is changed to make it easier for movers to load all and sundry aboard our AT fleet, they would get it changed.
However ask yourself why they dont.....................
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Your last post hits the nail on the head there fella
These banal rules, that are oft quoted as a defence by those so short sighted, fail to take stock of the big picture We have a system that is based on it's civvie equivalent and bears absolutely no relevance to what we in the militarty get up to on a day to day basis. We emplane, on the whole, military people who are going about there miltary business around the world. They are simply carrying items they would normally utilise in their day to day environment and bearing in mind we, despite the ever increasing "touchy feely EO" service we live in, do not currently employ muslim fundamentalists or members of any other such terror groups I fail to see what the problem is.
No doubt some one from the mover fraternity will now tell us that this excellant rule is in place to stop a passenger running amok and damaging the aircraft or others on board
b@@l@cks Firstly when did that last happen.
Secondly there are enough other items in the back of our AT fleet, chains - tensioners - fire extinguishers - DAC..............f@ck me Albert has two fire axes completly exposed to anyone who wishes to wield one in anger so the danger posed by a gerber or aircrew knife pales into complete insignificance.
I would suggest that if Mr C and the like really thought this was a rule that could be dispensed with, then bearing the amount of times the JSP 335 is changed to make it easier for movers to load all and sundry aboard our AT fleet, they would get it changed.
However ask yourself why they dont.....................
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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Not to get dragged back in to this hot potato, BUT
No.1
I have been asked to remove my aircrew knife so it can be handed to the ALM
I pointed out that I was the ALM
I was then told I’ll still have to remove it.
I asked what the RAFP CPL was going to do with it
His reply was put it in a bag with all the others and hand it to the ALM
At this point I walked away laughing.
No2
Departing a operational airfield somewhere east of UK.
I was handed a back full of leathermans and such from the our brothers in green (and sisters) and then told those 15 pax are carrying their side arms as they are not part of HM Forces
????????????
Those on high have laid down the rules. It is not the movers or the ATSY’s fault; they just have to implement those rules.
Didn’t some of the September 11 terrorists look western? Do you simply say its ok mate you look trustworthy to me and let them board. Yes there are items that can be used as weapons down the back of Albert but then what weapons did they use for the September 11 attacks?
All you very important people who feel you really need your blunt aircrew knife when you fly simply ask the ALM. I would appreciate it as I normally forget to hand them off anyway.
Just a bit of thought for others and the job they are trying to do, isn’t that what you want from people? It doesn’t always make sense to you or them but we are in the military and those are the rules.
Yes the RAF is in the military MATE!!!!
All spelling mistakes are because I can’t spell.
No.1
I have been asked to remove my aircrew knife so it can be handed to the ALM
I pointed out that I was the ALM
I was then told I’ll still have to remove it.
I asked what the RAFP CPL was going to do with it
His reply was put it in a bag with all the others and hand it to the ALM
At this point I walked away laughing.
No2
Departing a operational airfield somewhere east of UK.
I was handed a back full of leathermans and such from the our brothers in green (and sisters) and then told those 15 pax are carrying their side arms as they are not part of HM Forces
????????????
Those on high have laid down the rules. It is not the movers or the ATSY’s fault; they just have to implement those rules.
Didn’t some of the September 11 terrorists look western? Do you simply say its ok mate you look trustworthy to me and let them board. Yes there are items that can be used as weapons down the back of Albert but then what weapons did they use for the September 11 attacks?
All you very important people who feel you really need your blunt aircrew knife when you fly simply ask the ALM. I would appreciate it as I normally forget to hand them off anyway.
Just a bit of thought for others and the job they are trying to do, isn’t that what you want from people? It doesn’t always make sense to you or them but we are in the military and those are the rules.
Yes the RAF is in the military MATE!!!!
All spelling mistakes are because I can’t spell.