Movers v Loadies (Merged)
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C130 alm
I would of thought that a person of your age and experience in the trucking fleet would not degenerate this thread into one about my sister.
I am happy to tell you that as she does not play ANY musical instruments, their for she is not your type.
Should we start a new thread “Others peoples sisters”
Or we could start one about “other peoples fathers", but that would then exclude most of the fast jet pilots.
Throw verbal hand grenade and run.
All spelling mistakes are because I can’t spell.
I would of thought that a person of your age and experience in the trucking fleet would not degenerate this thread into one about my sister.
I am happy to tell you that as she does not play ANY musical instruments, their for she is not your type.
Should we start a new thread “Others peoples sisters”
Or we could start one about “other peoples fathers", but that would then exclude most of the fast jet pilots.
Throw verbal hand grenade and run.
All spelling mistakes are because I can’t spell.
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Movers v Loadies
I heard about this thread, so thought i'd take a peek.
My hands are up, i'm not Aircrew! so don't put me against the wall yet. I joined the Movs trade back in 1981, then in 82 volunteered for JHSU. Us Movers got a hard time from the Pongo's, "you crabs arent fit enough for this unit! How wrong they were. We regularly outran and proved our worth on the range too, by getting higher scores than them. The Loadies on rotary, sorry crewman, were more than grateful for us Movers being on the unit, we proved our worth to them too. In fact, (without dragging this reply to another slagging match) I may have saved a Chinook from disaster on a task i was on. The pilot brought the aircraft back, shut down and gave me a whole load of grief that his underslung load was grossly overweight, Sqn Ldr v SAC... I listened, then replied, suggest we take a closer look at the load then sir.. The load was correct.. no weights exceeded.. fault was with the aircraft, dodgy torque reading iwas told later. Most of the crewmen i knew some 20yrs ago are now on fixed wing and we still get on great together, they know me and what i can do, i know them and what they do, therfore we meet a happy medium to acheive a common goal. Get the frame airborne, on time!!! Over the years, I have heard sveral rumours/whispers about the trades of Movers/Loadies.. best one was putting Cpl movers on the Chinook to free up the 2nd crewman, due to shortages, this would have worked well. I believe movers were ramp riding in Lebanon and providing extra eyes as well as operating the chaff and flare for defence. A recent change on the flying front, putting Cpl stewards on C130's. Why?? extra "aircrew type" less pay, doing a 2nd ALM job in theory. Parting shot on LCRA though.. VC10 capt asked me once, where his Loadie was, is he stacking baggage in there, pointing to the rear hold..after picking meself off the hot tarmac, i said "Sir, after 3 tours at BZZ, tour in GUT, working in Italy on VC10's, i have never seen a Loadie stack bags in the hold of a VC10!! just my 2p's worth..
As for now, i'm busy driving artic's around the country putting up with "Middle Lane Moron's" and car drivers who think they can drive artics....!!!! same story, different toys...come on guys, learn to get along with each other!!!!
My hands are up, i'm not Aircrew! so don't put me against the wall yet. I joined the Movs trade back in 1981, then in 82 volunteered for JHSU. Us Movers got a hard time from the Pongo's, "you crabs arent fit enough for this unit! How wrong they were. We regularly outran and proved our worth on the range too, by getting higher scores than them. The Loadies on rotary, sorry crewman, were more than grateful for us Movers being on the unit, we proved our worth to them too. In fact, (without dragging this reply to another slagging match) I may have saved a Chinook from disaster on a task i was on. The pilot brought the aircraft back, shut down and gave me a whole load of grief that his underslung load was grossly overweight, Sqn Ldr v SAC... I listened, then replied, suggest we take a closer look at the load then sir.. The load was correct.. no weights exceeded.. fault was with the aircraft, dodgy torque reading iwas told later. Most of the crewmen i knew some 20yrs ago are now on fixed wing and we still get on great together, they know me and what i can do, i know them and what they do, therfore we meet a happy medium to acheive a common goal. Get the frame airborne, on time!!! Over the years, I have heard sveral rumours/whispers about the trades of Movers/Loadies.. best one was putting Cpl movers on the Chinook to free up the 2nd crewman, due to shortages, this would have worked well. I believe movers were ramp riding in Lebanon and providing extra eyes as well as operating the chaff and flare for defence. A recent change on the flying front, putting Cpl stewards on C130's. Why?? extra "aircrew type" less pay, doing a 2nd ALM job in theory. Parting shot on LCRA though.. VC10 capt asked me once, where his Loadie was, is he stacking baggage in there, pointing to the rear hold..after picking meself off the hot tarmac, i said "Sir, after 3 tours at BZZ, tour in GUT, working in Italy on VC10's, i have never seen a Loadie stack bags in the hold of a VC10!! just my 2p's worth..
As for now, i'm busy driving artic's around the country putting up with "Middle Lane Moron's" and car drivers who think they can drive artics....!!!! same story, different toys...come on guys, learn to get along with each other!!!!
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Movers vs Loadies. The feudal struggle
There's some lovely mud over here...
Reading the PPRUNE web site on Movers Vs Loadies really kind of sickened me. It brought me back to the bad times in the RAF that I’d mostly put in the back of my mind.
As I scrolled through the sanctimonious diatribes and the blatant verbal ‘looking down the nose’ of most Airmen Aircrew contributors, I know I made the right choice in leaving the RAF after ten years of being trodden on by aircrew officers and plastic Sgt Loadies.
It is a shame that teamwork still takes such a back burner in the RAF to individual posturing and one-upmanship which is so valued in the Military.
The RAF still operates on the British Empire principal that the lowest British subject is still superior to the native he has conquered.
In this case it’s the lofty loadie lording it over the poor mover who left school when he was 16 and is trying to serve his country the best way he can.
When the lofty loadie serves the meal to the Captain he in turn looks down his nose at Sgt Lofty, and so the never ending saga goes on.
The feudal society enshrined in the RAF.(And other British Military Arms)
Bravo. Fine principals indeed.
Some of you will say its just banter but those who have served any time in blue with SAC props will know that these prima-donnas really do act this badly.
I’ve been a civvy cop for sometime now and that is real teamwork.
The bosses all started in the job as Constables. We respect them for it.
Nobody thinks that they are any better than the new guy just starting his or her first day.
We all eat at the same table, there are no exclusive ‘messes’ and advice is freely given and problems solved with the help of others. Sounds almost idyllic eh? Compared to life in the RAF, it’s a totally different planet.
To those disillusioned with the status quo of everybody strutting over somebody, take heart, it’s not like that in the real world.
Remember the old song. Don’t buy a telly, don’t buy a car, save all your money and PVR.
I’ll stay in Canada (I won't tell you how much I earn and how much it buys in the Dominion, that would make me like you sad types.)
Chris (Pig ) Clarke
Burlington, Ontario
I can hear the sarcastic Lofties of the world stirring as I type......(yawn)
Reading the PPRUNE web site on Movers Vs Loadies really kind of sickened me. It brought me back to the bad times in the RAF that I’d mostly put in the back of my mind.
As I scrolled through the sanctimonious diatribes and the blatant verbal ‘looking down the nose’ of most Airmen Aircrew contributors, I know I made the right choice in leaving the RAF after ten years of being trodden on by aircrew officers and plastic Sgt Loadies.
It is a shame that teamwork still takes such a back burner in the RAF to individual posturing and one-upmanship which is so valued in the Military.
The RAF still operates on the British Empire principal that the lowest British subject is still superior to the native he has conquered.
In this case it’s the lofty loadie lording it over the poor mover who left school when he was 16 and is trying to serve his country the best way he can.
When the lofty loadie serves the meal to the Captain he in turn looks down his nose at Sgt Lofty, and so the never ending saga goes on.
The feudal society enshrined in the RAF.(And other British Military Arms)
Bravo. Fine principals indeed.
Some of you will say its just banter but those who have served any time in blue with SAC props will know that these prima-donnas really do act this badly.
I’ve been a civvy cop for sometime now and that is real teamwork.
The bosses all started in the job as Constables. We respect them for it.
Nobody thinks that they are any better than the new guy just starting his or her first day.
We all eat at the same table, there are no exclusive ‘messes’ and advice is freely given and problems solved with the help of others. Sounds almost idyllic eh? Compared to life in the RAF, it’s a totally different planet.
To those disillusioned with the status quo of everybody strutting over somebody, take heart, it’s not like that in the real world.
Remember the old song. Don’t buy a telly, don’t buy a car, save all your money and PVR.
I’ll stay in Canada (I won't tell you how much I earn and how much it buys in the Dominion, that would make me like you sad types.)
Chris (Pig ) Clarke
Burlington, Ontario
I can hear the sarcastic Lofties of the world stirring as I type......(yawn)
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moving slightly away from the subject but you guys seem to be the font of the knowledge that I need. I recently enquired at my RAF careers office about joining as NCO Aircrew (Airloadmaster) and the recruiting officer was selling it to me big time. My situation is I'm 30 and looking to change careers. I have a good job at moment in the media industry but it isn't giving me the opportunities that the R.A.F could. I come from an R.A.F background so am well aware of the life to expect. When I spoke to my brother about it who is a senior engineering officer he took the line that at 30 if I was selected the the youngsters would be selected ahead of me for the better jobs and I would find it harder to progress. He is my brother and is obviously biased so I need your opinion. My main questions are 30, too old? If selected, within reason what rank could I get to? Could I go for a commission? What's the job like now?
Thanks for your help
Thanks for your help
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I can’t believe they have let a former Senior Aircraftsman write on this forum. The horror is their no rule about the lower classes being able to write never mind type.
What is the world coming to, this was never allowed when I was a SAC.
Oh crap!
Prat100_2000
You will receive a hole host or replies ranging from good to bad, my only advise, if its of any use to you as one that has climbed the society ladder to the dizzy height of ALM is go for it.
I am working class and so I look up to them
I am middle class and so I look down on him (working class) and look up to him
I am upper class I look down on both of them
I am your loadmaster sit down and shut the
up.
All spelling mistakes are because I can’t spell.
What is the world coming to, this was never allowed when I was a SAC.
Oh crap!
Prat100_2000
You will receive a hole host or replies ranging from good to bad, my only advise, if its of any use to you as one that has climbed the society ladder to the dizzy height of ALM is go for it.
I am working class and so I look up to them
I am middle class and so I look down on him (working class) and look up to him
I am upper class I look down on both of them
I am your loadmaster sit down and shut the
up.All spelling mistakes are because I can’t spell.
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ALMS Ladies, Gentlemen and movers,
I would like to point out that I as a loadmaster of some 15 years experience generally get on well with movers. In fact the last team I went away with were great, keen, helpful, not travelling as pax for the five days between onloads and offloads, but tidying up doing the crew baggage and other things to help me and make the trip as pleasant as possible for everyone, crew and pax included.(That should get them in trouble with their union.) When it came to the meat of the task for them, it was done quickly and professionally. (Thanks Al)
As a trade they do have some lazy bolshy and narrow minded twits amongst them. Most of which are in positions of power and will cover up any misdemeanours or mistakes made on their shift under the misguided belief that it is protecting the trade and their backsides!, whereas it really is just undermining any trust people could have in them. This does keep ALMs in a job catching these little oversights though.
The vast majority of ALMs are still keen and very professional (They wouldnt have gone through all the cr@p alluded to by ABIW if they were'nt), but we too have one or maybe two bolshy and lazy ALMs amongst us (I used to be a route checker I know!).
I personally however at the end of the day when all is said and done would rather have my aircraft loaded by 47 AD.
Oh, and all those movers who think they can do my job are invited to attend the NCA roadshow that is doing the rounds over the next few weeks and apply.
Cheers
I would like to point out that I as a loadmaster of some 15 years experience generally get on well with movers. In fact the last team I went away with were great, keen, helpful, not travelling as pax for the five days between onloads and offloads, but tidying up doing the crew baggage and other things to help me and make the trip as pleasant as possible for everyone, crew and pax included.(That should get them in trouble with their union.) When it came to the meat of the task for them, it was done quickly and professionally. (Thanks Al)
As a trade they do have some lazy bolshy and narrow minded twits amongst them. Most of which are in positions of power and will cover up any misdemeanours or mistakes made on their shift under the misguided belief that it is protecting the trade and their backsides!, whereas it really is just undermining any trust people could have in them. This does keep ALMs in a job catching these little oversights though.
The vast majority of ALMs are still keen and very professional (They wouldnt have gone through all the cr@p alluded to by ABIW if they were'nt), but we too have one or maybe two bolshy and lazy ALMs amongst us (I used to be a route checker I know!).
I personally however at the end of the day when all is said and done would rather have my aircraft loaded by 47 AD.
Oh, and all those movers who think they can do my job are invited to attend the NCA roadshow that is doing the rounds over the next few weeks and apply.
Cheers
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Yes please do attend the NCA Roadshow, as Kinloss is desperate for siggy's. 'Cos if you all think your gonna get an ALM slot mmmmmm well we will see( Am i being synical again?... sorry). Movers - supply - ALM's what ever, just be happy, professional and get on with it !
PS
JHSU -Some of the most professional chaps and ladies I've ever worked with. 47AD I can't comment sorry!
any spelling mistakes are cos i can't be arsed to spill chock
Remember ... you have to be good ... to be gash....!!!!
PS
JHSU -Some of the most professional chaps and ladies I've ever worked with. 47AD I can't comment sorry!
any spelling mistakes are cos i can't be arsed to spill chock
Remember ... you have to be good ... to be gash....!!!!
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Can anyone smell bacon
Dear Mr Clarke how I giggled at your post. Rather ironic that you are visiting and commenting on a website dedicated to the ones you most despise
"As I scrolled through the sanctimonious diatribes and the blatant verbal ‘looking down the nose’ of most Airmen Aircrew contributors, I know I made the right choice in leaving the RAF after ten years of being trodden on by aircrew officers and plastic Sgt Loadies."
I guess from this that you had checked out the criteria for selection and having realised your inadequacies decided to
" select teddy in cot" and quit
"Some of you will say its just banter but those who have served any time in blue with SAC props will know that these prima-donnas really do act this badly"
15 years spent in blue from LAC to SGT, including JT, before making the right move so i think I am pretty qualified in telling you that you are wrong
We may not be perfect but as Zee said "we are the best of the best"...............a club you seem to have failed to join.
Hope Canada is great as we are missing you already
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Dear Mr Clarke how I giggled at your post. Rather ironic that you are visiting and commenting on a website dedicated to the ones you most despise
"As I scrolled through the sanctimonious diatribes and the blatant verbal ‘looking down the nose’ of most Airmen Aircrew contributors, I know I made the right choice in leaving the RAF after ten years of being trodden on by aircrew officers and plastic Sgt Loadies."
I guess from this that you had checked out the criteria for selection and having realised your inadequacies decided to
" select teddy in cot" and quit
"Some of you will say its just banter but those who have served any time in blue with SAC props will know that these prima-donnas really do act this badly"
15 years spent in blue from LAC to SGT, including JT, before making the right move so i think I am pretty qualified in telling you that you are wrong
We may not be perfect but as Zee said "we are the best of the best"...............a club you seem to have failed to join.
Hope Canada is great as we are missing you already
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
To Banter or Not to Banter ....
For Pig Clarke.
If officers liked airmen, if ALMs liked Movers, if SNCO's liked troops, if airmen liked officers and if movers liked ALMs etc etc, what a boring place the RAF would be.
We are the Best, because we work as a team, we get the job done, and we dont give a ***** what anyone thinks about anyone else.
Obviously banter is fun, it is meant to be, it is not cruel, and it is not meant to be offensive in this wonderfully politically correct world we now live in.
Thankfully you saw the error of your ways and fu**ed off to Canada to live with the bl**dy Frogs. Best place for you.
Thankfully we also have the Army and the Navy to take the p1$$ out of as well. (I am too scared to take on the Royal Marines).
If officers liked airmen, if ALMs liked Movers, if SNCO's liked troops, if airmen liked officers and if movers liked ALMs etc etc, what a boring place the RAF would be.
We are the Best, because we work as a team, we get the job done, and we dont give a ***** what anyone thinks about anyone else.
Obviously banter is fun, it is meant to be, it is not cruel, and it is not meant to be offensive in this wonderfully politically correct world we now live in.
Thankfully you saw the error of your ways and fu**ed off to Canada to live with the bl**dy Frogs. Best place for you.
Thankfully we also have the Army and the Navy to take the p1$$ out of as well. (I am too scared to take on the Royal Marines).
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It's all very amusing this movers/loadies thing, very amusing. Especially so when everyone who has been in the mob for more than ten minutes realises that riggers are the top of the food-chain.
Have GS, will rule.
Have GS, will rule.
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Dear B,
Are you suggesting that the only qualification for "top food chain" status is the undenied ability to batter the sh@t out of anything with a "ball pein" till it's either fixed or fuc@ed
Do be brief young man avionics,whilst not asscocited with the rest of you trade group 1 heavie handed bast@rds is definately the way ahead................at least they think logically, probably using the half split method blah blah unlike riggers and sumpies whose only training appears to be in the procussion adjustment department
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Are you suggesting that the only qualification for "top food chain" status is the undenied ability to batter the sh@t out of anything with a "ball pein" till it's either fixed or fuc@ed
Do be brief young man avionics,whilst not asscocited with the rest of you trade group 1 heavie handed bast@rds is definately the way ahead................at least they think logically, probably using the half split method blah blah unlike riggers and sumpies whose only training appears to be in the procussion adjustment department
all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Armourers' thumbs and avionics - a heady mix. But not as much fun as watching some grunt REME blacksmith trying to fix a photocopier. "..'it it wiv a bigger 'ammer" is not normally an approved maintenance technique.
Would anything in the RAF still work without black bodge tape and speed tape holding it together?
Would anything in the RAF still work without black bodge tape and speed tape holding it together?
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ABI Wilts penned. . .
"Are you suggesting that the only qualification for "top food chain" status is the undenied ability to batter the sh@t out of anything with a "ball pein" till it's either fixed or fuc@ed"
Well of course I am, thought that was obvious. Bit more technical than you make out though - a good rigger (gods bless 'im) wields a precision GS screwdriver and 2BA tap as well. But it is interesting that you should not only know, but be able to spell a rigger's main weapon of mass destruction. Are you a "closet" rigger? Do you aspire to greater things? Can you "fixit" with black tape?
. . . and went on . . .
" . . .avionics,whilst not asscocited with the rest of you trade group 1 heavie handed bast@rds is definately the way ahead"
But only if you've got a servicable aluminium tube to carry it all in! Otherwise it's just a bunch of not very trendy "hi-fi" looking boxes and walkman lookalikes laid out on the pan.
then finished with . . .
". . . unlike riggers and sumpies whose only training appears to be in the procussion adjustment department"
Nah, we are (or were) trained to look kindly on those lower down the food-chain - such as fairies, siggies, movers and the like. Bless 'em, they're so cute ain't they?
"Are you suggesting that the only qualification for "top food chain" status is the undenied ability to batter the sh@t out of anything with a "ball pein" till it's either fixed or fuc@ed"
Well of course I am, thought that was obvious.
Bit more technical than you make out though - a good rigger (gods bless 'im) wields a precision GS screwdriver and 2BA tap as well. But it is interesting that you should not only know, but be able to spell a rigger's main weapon of mass destruction. Are you a "closet" rigger? Do you aspire to greater things? Can you "fixit" with black tape?. . . and went on . . .
" . . .avionics,whilst not asscocited with the rest of you trade group 1 heavie handed bast@rds is definately the way ahead"
But only if you've got a servicable aluminium tube to carry it all in! Otherwise it's just a bunch of not very trendy "hi-fi" looking boxes and walkman lookalikes laid out on the pan.
then finished with . . .
". . . unlike riggers and sumpies whose only training appears to be in the procussion adjustment department"
Nah, we are (or were) trained to look kindly on those lower down the food-chain - such as fairies, siggies, movers and the like. Bless 'em, they're so cute ain't they?
No Stick, No Vote...
FFP, remove your blinkers and look again at the title and scope of this forum.
"Military Aircrew
A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here"
As to the stick, just imagine that it is that it is just a substitute for a male appendage and hold it as such. But I bet thats what you do anyway.....
The automatic pilot was invented circa 1943, the automatic groundcrew has yet to be invented.
Just remember who services your kite.
"Military Aircrew
A forum for the professionals who fly the non-civilian hardware, and the backroom boys and girls without whom nothing would leave the ground. Army, Navy and Airforces of the World, all equally welcome here"
As to the stick, just imagine that it is that it is just a substitute for a male appendage and hold it as such. But I bet thats what you do anyway.....
The automatic pilot was invented circa 1943, the automatic groundcrew has yet to be invented.
Just remember who services your kite.
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Mk5,
Whilst I appreciate your sentiment our royal friend is perfectly correct in his "no stick no vote" statement. From the very top of the Airforce tree all their lord ships have at least one wing, mainly two therefore..............................blah blah
al spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
Whilst I appreciate your sentiment our royal friend is perfectly correct in his "no stick no vote" statement. From the very top of the Airforce tree all their lord ships have at least one wing, mainly two therefore..............................blah blah
al spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced
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875
I thought this thread was dying but the likes of you and ABIW have poked the embers again. What part of 'NOT ALL MOVERS WANT TO BECOME LOADMASTERS' do you not understand? It also amuses me that when you go for selection/conversion you are encouraged to say that you want to improve yourself, have higher aspirations etc and mustn't mention money but throughout this thread that's all you lot do!
"You don't recollect a Loadie ever bending a Herc..." Well the tallest Loadie on the J's managed to reshape all the roller last year by crushing them using the ramp. You've obviously forgotten the brave Loadie who left the power set attached at Akrotiri and when the crunch came bravely abandoned the aircraft leaving the pax inside. At least two of your intrepid brethren have broken their legs when the winch cable snapped due to their incompetent handling. More than one stowage bin has been re-shapen by the ADS arms when the ramp was lowered before a visual check. Seem to remember that more than once you guys have lowered the ramp with a bridged vehicle still nailed to the floor, need I go on?
You're probably right about Air Despatch loading aircraft but they've never mastered the art of taking it back off....
The comment about the leaders is annoying as well. You don't like the WOs, well that's understandable becuase they bite back and won't entertain mischief. The officers is a different story as none of them are proper movers although they seem to know it all within weeks! Imagine how the movers feel when they see comments about the 'dizzy blond' at Akrotiri or the 'snotty' Fg Off at Asi - they won't argue with you 'cos it's true.
I thought this thread was dying but the likes of you and ABIW have poked the embers again. What part of 'NOT ALL MOVERS WANT TO BECOME LOADMASTERS' do you not understand? It also amuses me that when you go for selection/conversion you are encouraged to say that you want to improve yourself, have higher aspirations etc and mustn't mention money but throughout this thread that's all you lot do!
"You don't recollect a Loadie ever bending a Herc..." Well the tallest Loadie on the J's managed to reshape all the roller last year by crushing them using the ramp. You've obviously forgotten the brave Loadie who left the power set attached at Akrotiri and when the crunch came bravely abandoned the aircraft leaving the pax inside. At least two of your intrepid brethren have broken their legs when the winch cable snapped due to their incompetent handling. More than one stowage bin has been re-shapen by the ADS arms when the ramp was lowered before a visual check. Seem to remember that more than once you guys have lowered the ramp with a bridged vehicle still nailed to the floor, need I go on?
You're probably right about Air Despatch loading aircraft but they've never mastered the art of taking it back off....
The comment about the leaders is annoying as well. You don't like the WOs, well that's understandable becuase they bite back and won't entertain mischief. The officers is a different story as none of them are proper movers although they seem to know it all within weeks! Imagine how the movers feel when they see comments about the 'dizzy blond' at Akrotiri or the 'snotty' Fg Off at Asi - they won't argue with you 'cos it's true.