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This is my first posting on your site. I've been a Saudia pilot for several years so I can provide some real answers.
All the non-saudi pilot live on a compound called Saudi City. Most of the people here are Lebonese, Bangladesh or Indian. The compound is not clean like you would see in Dubia, but is livable. The water often does not work well in the day time, but the electricity is always on so the A/C works all the time. There is a lot of flying, but also a lot of schedule changes. You bid from an very old system of pre-printed lines (not a modern system of preferencial bidding). Most of the lines have 5 days off, but you finish flying late before the first day, and are always scheduled very early the day following so if you commute anywhere, you will only have 3 days off. If you're very lucky you can beg for an extra day, but they will keep you in suspense until the last minute, so it's quite frustrating. The schedulers do this intentionally. They feel a need to control everyone and are jealous that pilots can come and go from Saudi Arabia, while they are stuck in an office. With a few exceptions, the career of a new non-saudi pilot is from months to a few short years. It doesn't take a long time until one grows tired of the scheduling nonsense. Aside from the scheduling problem the company is generally nice to work for. Everybody at least pretends to be friendly and genuine, so it's an easy place to work. if anyone wants specific answers, just post and I'll do my best to answer. |
The tests are very easy. If you possess a general high school education, common sense and good general aviation knowledge, you'll pass with flying colors.
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There are no differences courses at Saudia. Training for a type-rated pilot joining the company, or a pilot transitioning from one fleet to another can last from 4 months, to over a year.
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Hello Saudia Expat,
Thank you for the explanations. Which aircraft do you fly ? What about the long haul roster compared with short/medium ? It is said that we could expect more off days in a row on 777/330. What about CRM ? Is everything available in the compound, like supermarket.. ? Or do we need to go outside ? How do you feel going outside the compound ? Many thanks |
This is my first posting on your site. I've been a Saudia pilot for several years so I can provide some real answers. All the non-saudi pilot live on a compound called Saudi City. Most of the people here are Lebonese, Bangladesh or Indian. The compound is not clean like you would see in Dubia, but is livable. The water often does not work well in the day time, but the electricity is always on so the A/C works all the time. There is a lot of flying, but also a lot of schedule changes. You bid from an very old system of pre-printed lines (not a modern system of preferencial bidding). Most of the lines have 5 days off, but you finish flying late before the first day, and are always scheduled very early the day following so if you commute anywhere, you will only have 3 days off. If you're very lucky you can beg for an extra day, but they will keep you in suspense until the last minute, so it's quite frustrating. The schedulers do this intentionally. They feel a need to control everyone and are jealous that pilots can come and go from Saudi Arabia, while they are stuck in an office. With a few exceptions, the career of a new non-saudi pilot is from months to a few short years. It doesn't take a long time until one grows tired of the scheduling nonsense. Aside from the scheduling problem the company is generally nice to work for. Everybody at least pretends to be friendly and genuine, so it's an easy place to work. if anyone wants specific answers, just post and I'll do my best to answer. Most of the people stay here until they are forced to leave by age or personal reasons. With few exceptions:). As time passes by it's more and more difficult to leave. Increasing salary, benefits, school for kids... Once you get used to this life it's easy. And relations with planners entirely depend on you. Just respect them and you you will be treated accordingly. Withing scheduling limits, of course. Scheduling problems is a part of a job description and compensated in the end of the month with SMS from the bank.:O |
What about commuting Roster ?
Is it really possible or not on B777 ? Thanks |
It's 5 days in a row only. Whatever you make of it. Europe - 3 days at home. US/Canada - 2. Plus jet lag. No fun.
To make it back to back you need seniority. On 777 it will probably never happen to new hires. |
5 years plan
Next week the company will present the 5 year plan in a press conference.that will be interesting. I wish i could attend but the keep me busy all the time.:hmm:will be front page next day on the newspapers without any doubt.
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If it's not clear yet please read my text "IT IS NOT A COMMUTING OR COMMUTABLE CONTRACT".
If you understand that and are happy to live in Jeddah then it's a good contract. |
Saudia City
I lived in the very first block to open in Saudia City. That was about March of 1977. There were no gates on any entrance. No telephones either. A TWA mechanic wired the place for video and ran a cable network using betmax machines for years.
Those blocks have been demolished, but Google Maps still show that the rest has not changed much. They used the same type paper bid/line schedule systems, but most lines had 8 days off. They would always schedule a 1 day trip at the end or beginning of a line if your days off were next to the beginning or the end of a month. Lost of sick call ins from the locals for those lines. The place was decent back then. |
Next week the company will present the 5 year plan in a press conference.that will be interesting |
Saudia will double its fleet in 5 years.
More competition to the ME3 Saudi national carrier to double fleet: media |
And who is going to fly them?
Lets say an average of 5 sets of crew per aircraft (as types unknown), 80 aircraft means 800 crews or 160 new hires a year, thats not including retirements/resignations, so about 200 a year. Should be interesting:). |
What are the prospects of command in Saudia?? I m currently flying a 777 with aproximately 6000 total flying hours and 700 on type.
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@RAM777. 10-12 years best case scenario and your command will be on the A320
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And who is going to fly them?
Lets say an average of 5 sets of crew per aircraft (as types unknown), 80 aircraft means 800 crews or 160 new hires a year, thats not including retirements/resignations, so about 200 a year. Should be interesting. 5 sets is not achievable especially on the T7. Ppl from the HR are talking for minimum 350 pilots/year for the next 5 years plus the local cadets. Next month the PSAA will receive a second B777 ftd from AZ because they are expecting more than 35 expats per month from September . Last week they had 48 candidates on the Cairo assessment and again another 48 next week. Even EK with the most efficient HR department can handle 32 per week. In addition only some details are yet to be confirmed so that SVA will secure slots for the B777 in Air France sims in Paris ,because CAI DXB and JED are not enough. I think the press conference next week will be quite interesting |
Unless a lot changes; it is absolutely not achievable. Currently the Academy can not take a throughput of more than 150 new hires per year. Even using the training capacity of other companies to meet t7 requirements, it's not that those companies don't need their own training capacity in the coming years. Add to that; currently the HR department is as efficient as Greek government. There is no way they can cope with 48 interviews per month, and they can not get 48 GACA qualified people to each interview in any case. People who are that qualified have a lot of options.
Even if they did manage to get the required number of candidates into the training center the attrition rate is still high. People decide Jeddah is not for them. Lifestyle for A320 new hire Captains is not particularly good. GACA are not going to lower their standards. Let's say 800-1000 Pilots in 5 years would be an absolutely remarkable achievement. |
Any 777 Capt here?
Hi I would appreciate if a 777 Capt could PM me his feed back and feelings about Saudi Arabian as I might apply later this year.
Many Thanks |
@polax52. They had 48 the previous week and they will have 48 next week as well. The training centers that they get are not for free. And this is why they look for extra slots and locations. The only real problem (and i have already mentioned it) is the GACA examiners.but guess what!! Gaca asked from all the senior instructors in the PSAA to submit their resumes . I got my doupts that they will meet the objective target but i am pretty sure that they will try as much as possible.
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The problem can be simply resolved by creating a level of Senior Instructors who automatically become GACA examiners when appointed as such by the airline.
i.e. they train, check, and licence on behalf of the company, and GACA. |
Saudia
I have been here 15 months and on line since last October as 777 captain. I can answer your questions but warn you I am biased. I like it here. Worked in USA, Japan, India and China and this is by far the best. Family is in the states because the trading system is great here.
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Days off
I disagree with Mutt. If you don't mind guaranteed salary you can trade you trips or give them away down to the guarantee, 78 hours. My sim partner manages 9 days each month in London by trip trades or giving up trips. Can be done until you get the taste of overtime in a paycheck. Then you will have your family meet you on RONs or move here.
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I disagree with Mutt Considering that people use this site to form an opinion about the company, would you say that "some people managed to make the system work", or "Saudia is a commuting contract"? Hope you are enjoying life on the 777 :) |
I'm in ground position in Saudia and can't say much about the rosters etc. However I would like to give my 5 cents with some main observations:
Pilots are most unhappy and whining staff in ANY airline. No offence, just statistics - check statistics of strikes and involved staff in major airlines. Life and work in Saudia, Jeddah, KSA, ME,... anywhere is what you make of it. "Some people managed to make the system work" - this is true. It doesn't mean it will fly LIKE you want, but if you are good, it will fly the DIRECTION you want. It takes some time until you understand that brain-pinions here are rotating in different direction than yours. mutt makes excellent notes about particular details in SV as an insider. Everyone is free to evaluate everything what is said and decide if this matches his lifestyle and expectations. I don't know many expats who left Saudia at their own decision though, (only one guy due to family issues). |
transfer to WB capt seat
Hi saudia guys, as I'm interested to join Saudia as a 320 Cpt soon, considering the fleet expansion expected, could you tell me, according to you, how much time I will have to wait in that position before accessing to Wide Body left seat ?
Thanks guys |
It's either by seniority or by equipment phase out.
By seniority - minimum 16-17 years as of current situation. By equipment phase out - never know. And you may just be transferred to another narrow body. No good news:( |
Presently they are hiring direct hire Captains and First Officers rather than moving FO's to larger equipment or upgrading them to Captains, admittedly they don't have an option as they need to increase the total number of flightcrew and they cant increase from cadet levels.
So bear in mind that there is no guarantee that even when your seniority number comes up, they may not move you! |
Ok guys, that's understood..
Is that the same for A330 ? I mean A320 crews don't fly A330 also in Saudia, as some carriers use to permit that? The A320/ A330 upgrade course is pretty short and easy, in order make crews fly both aircrafts ... But perhaps Saudia didn't make that choice for other reasons ? |
@Corsair44. No 320 only for you. They don't mix them as other companies do. If you dont have WB experience as a captain do not expect 330 or 777. There are local captains with 8-10 years on the 320 so it wouldn't be fair for them. It makes sense
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But perhaps Saudia didn't make that choice for other reasons ? |
Originally Posted by mutt
(Post 8987211)
There are only about 100 A330 pilots and about 500 A320 pilots, as they are considered different categories they are on different pay scales. Bringing 500 pilots up to the higher pay scale defeats the economics of CCQ.
Pretty poor quality of life though on the 320. |
@Alloha
Of course it makes sense ... I didn't know there was several pay scales in Saudia...That explains many things... @polax52 By the way , why do you describe the 320's pilots life style to be so poor ? |
style to be so poor ? |
@corsair 44. The difference in pay scale is relatively small and the 320 skippers make it up by flying 20-25 hours more than the 330 captains. It would be cheaper for the company to spread the plus 75 hours which are heavily paid to flight crews who average 65 h per month. Also A different type means a different office with additional managerial positions plus the fact that GACA is not so flexible to allow common type operations. 787 will be a different fleet as well and not a joined with the T7 unlikely other companies.
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Hi,
could somebody indicate the process, after being hired, concerning Rating course, GACA ATP, until line training? Thanks |
Indoctrination class, Crm ,CBT FTD plus an extra week ground school .company oral b4 the Sim With Gaca and company check in the Sim and Gaca oral (usually after the sim .Sim 14 sessions). Line training (34 sectors for captains 21 for FOs). Captains have Gaca check in the aircraft along with Company check. FOs only company. No more Atpl. Thats it. 5 months if everything runs smoothly . If everything sticks to the program do not expect not even 4-5 days of leave. It happened to some classes.other classes had gaps of 12-15 days.
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Hi,
One quick question regarding the assessment in Cairo. I've read about the Maths/Physics tests. However, in the invitation for the interview, it is never mentioned, as they only speak about basic aviation knowledges/and aptitude aviation. Is this something new or everybody received the same thing ? Thanks a lot ;) |
Thank you Alloha.
And, do you know if 777 FDC fly on both, pax/cargo ? Or only one sector ? It must be a quite different life. |
They will fly both as the B777F is not yet fully operational.its only one and they have back logged order for another 3
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This is kinda interesting.... anyone want to guess at who it is?
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