It's not this guys fault for lowering conditions. The fact is, supply is vastly inflated from the kids willing to drop $150k on a CPL in the middle of a pandemic, egged on by flight schools whispering about industry growth forecasts; selling the dream.

And after you've dropped that $150k and realised you were sold a lie - sure, you'd be willing to work for less to get your foot on the ladder to rescue some of your investment over the long-term. That's understandable.

The solution isn't to flog these kids for daring to ask, it's to have training be matched to a job beforehand to ensure that Supply = Demand.

Unfortunately, both airlines and flight schools don't want that; There is no benefit at all for them. It'll take decades of the profession being viewed as a :mad: & embarrassing job to stop that influx of wannabes.

Garbage collection is a surprisingly well paid job because of the negative stigma attached. Being a pilot will become an ever more poorly paid job because of the perceived glamour and positive stigma enjoyed in most parts of the World.

Just as Cabin Crew, you will always have the romantic side of travel luring kids to take a gamble on the profession. Who needs a salary when you have Instagram followers? Or when Daddy is a rich veteran expat in Doha.

Newcomer2

Lol! what else can i say, nothing more i guess.

Whenever i see SandPilot350 post something... i always say 'this going to be good to read,' you are a true blessing to this forum. Well done with the passing of information. I actually came on to describe the letters that were distributing. To those who would want this cleared up;

NEW SALARY & STAFF NUMBERS to those who ALREADY obtained FINAL SETTLEMENT and left the country already. From what I gathered, this will include the guys who were recently sent home (31st May) but are able to keep their RP's. This does not mean lower salaries that those who are currently flying. eg. When you start the airline as a FO let's say you get 23000qar, and you spent X number of years whereby you got your yearly increase that brought you up to 30000qar a month... but you got redundant and finished your finial settlements then..yes... now you come back as staff number 109000 and restart at a pay of 23000qar. It would be like you rejoined the airline like new.

Those who are looking to come back to QA... keep looking else where...do not wait for their call...and if they do and you have a job...dont be tempted by the money... trust me...

If i remember, in the past...you had a specific time limit whereby you can come back and maintain your position in the company, but seems like they may have gotten rid of that amid the pandemic...

JUst some updates...(please comment on if you heard these, can confirm, can deny);

*all fleets bleeding crew
*all fleets overworked
*787,777,320 pilots have been reinstated both from outside QR and who were still inside (350 hires)
*everyone who had been fired have left by now
*rehiring is a SLOW process, it seems that it was mainly for PR, because office staff can tell you... loads and possibilities do not seems to be improving. PR because as you have seen AB recently had a interview with simple flying and he got to talk about how generous his airline is because they are rehiring
*US market is killing it! doing well! EU i am hoping will pick up heavily by summer domestically and sep to dec internationally.
*order on planes are coming.... apparently there are issues currently with AB and Airbus with some plane... a defect/problem he is keeping quiet... but i believe it is the 320 neos and their fuel burn... they way airbus lied to them about the 350...
* 350 are coming in as fast as possible.... honestly i believe this is to not allow EK to gain any 350's... that will be a hard hit for QA as it will leach pilots from QR and trust me...people will leave to go... but with airlines in the world giving up 350s we can expect QA to buy more than anticipated and claim they love the aircraft for fuel efficiency or some BS, but we all that it is because of EK
*320 neos... 50 on order...with LR arriving no XLR... where are they..who knows?


to talk about the elephant in the room.... alphadelta1 .... I am sorry, but i do not expect QA to take new pilots now... they currently need to take redundant...then pool...then their qatari MPL, non qatar MPL, SO on CPL and prob only then consider new hires.... I feel bad for you new pilots because as someone said.. the schools sell a dream that there is a need for bodies in the industry.. but the reality is, it is experience pilots... not out of school pilots... what the schools dont tell you...out of school you need to get experience then youll be in demand...

But guys and gals we dont need to be sooo hard on him. He is looking for information, at a point in time we all were in the same boat and we would have loved to have experience guys talk to us.. not to give us :mad: for not knowing... where is your CRM? dont bring that old fashion captain rubbish guys... we are all better than that... from everyone in this forum... I am sorry we didnt handle your question better....

AD, the market now is terrible.... you like many others will love to fly, but things are a bit unpredictable right now... but keep with it... stay away from those P2F programs, rather do some single engine stuff, instructing, etc.. build from there... the flight school still selling this we need pilot dream...so they will hire instructors as amazing as it will be... your 1st job wont be with an airline...especially as big as QA... unless you are MPL...which is something i still do not recommend... to the MPLs...excellent program (no offence, but better than CPL pilots) but you are in a terrible situation NOW.

good luck out there everyone... keep the post coming...

Hey Guys so I have been asking for a while on here if there has been any word on 350 rehire, I have received reliable info that there is no intention to rehire 350 Capts that were let go, nothing on 350 FO’s at this stage.

Taviator

I want to know who is the brains behind this b/t because it looks to me like HR **** sorry scenario,that was signed some time ago and now they can’t stop it because there is no procedure.
Same with the redundancies on autopilot even after the blockade resolution and the vaccination campaign.

If no bond is placed on rehired, redundant pilot, how many days have to laps from the final line check, before we can handle the resignation letter to QA?
I guess with the money they offer, no health insurance (aka Al Koot) and low morale, it only makes sense to return to QA just to refresh you type rating and the medical on company's expense.
Then just show them the middle finger and run.

OMG remembered those days..

it is good that those photos above are posted. People have to know what QR is and how it treated pilots who used to fly safely hundreds of thousands of people.
Pilots should not consider rejoining this dreary place unless they have no other option at home or anywhere else
they treat you like an airplane part and not as a pilot. I was lucky to find a place to work back home and left on my own after being a year away from my country.
Guys who are still there get encouraged to leave from that company who only knows to humiliate their most valuable assets. the people who get the maximum stress to fly those airplanes under the strictest management that possibly exists on planet earth.
QROC advertisments. "do not hesitate to go around for any reason". then you go around - you are screwed hahaha. Insane, just wrote a basic example. Attrition before COVID was about 300 pilots a year ! that is not normal
half of them would leave on their own and half would get terminated. The whole place used to suck even before. Rosters are a piece of.. s.... unless you are desperate... rosters that a normal human being cannot handle because of fatigue. Then you report fatigue .... oh sir please come to the office to explain us.. hahahahahahahaaha

Congratulations to sandpilot350 for posting the above photos

Lesson to be learned, mobile phones should be prohibited inside QR facilities during separation process... problem solved.

The separation process was so messy and subcontinental that you're mixing up the things... This is the rejoining process btw🤣

yeah....they need to hide everything under the carpet. typical QR

Hi Guys,

I can't believe what I'm reading right now about the salary discrepancies between FDC. What to say, it's a shame. They just fired to rehire. Now, it's obvious they planned it this way to balance their annual "budget".
I hope the pilots will revenge and resign massively during this world cup. Hopefully during layover

Yep, flying FOs who earn more than I do. This is short term for me. I, like many others, have no intention of staying long term. As soon as a job becomes available we're off.

Considering lateral head shakers' mentality they might bring the salaries back to normal (prepandemic levels) when markets go back to normal and expect people forget the past and stay there.. :)

Out of curiosity, when do you think that will be ?

In fact, people will treat the salaries back as a huge improvement of "our dearest and wise boss" ....

It so interesting to see most, if not all Facebook groups linked to Qatar Airways are quiet lately.
Everybody is so scared to make any comments.
Arabs, you must be proud of yourself for spreading this fear factor.
But remember, when the music stops playing, you will have to park your Land Cruisers and hose off your camels to visit cousins.

To all foreigners in Qatar. Right now we all have to face difficult time, but the Middle East has nothing to offer anymore.
The flying will open again and we all will find jobs where we will be treated with dignity and respect.

Don't expect much from the nation where to enforce the traffic rules, they have to install the speed bumps.

Useless email, they don’t want 320 to 777 anyway otherwise they would have done it already.

Just a fake show of “we care about you guys” preference..

Good point about the fleet transfer from 320->777..
but who in right mind would even consider that kind
of change. If you want to kill yourself believe me there
is easier option available.

From the donkey show, tons of emails about fleet transfers and grounding 350’s without any reason effecting airplane to fly but as we know this is normal for the airline who believes it should be painted with halal paint . Anyways : Anyone who knows what happened to our golden days? as haven’t seen them lately? Everyone knows about the salary crap ongoing plus triple guys got paid all their holidays as productive from the basic holidays in this company should be worth 5 or 10times of the money.. no one in their right mind would never accept pro-rated from the monthly basic..

fleet transfers : wtf no one in this world is that stupid to move to triple with the current situation.. flying 120-140hrs a month is not legal anywhere except doha as the QA = QCAA .. EASA compliant is the biggest joke in history of aviation when company itself can modify the rules as they wish

and the new rules .. new acn doesn’t apply for all nationalities as our Instagram pilots continue to show off just a note for you guys.. it’s a airplane and a job! No one give a :mad: about your circus around but remember while drinking abroad you should keep your pants on while visiting the malls is doha! Welcome to Stone Age.

Any idea of numbers for transfer to 777,787, Why not 350?

Apparently they're focused on Boeing fleet recently. We might see some movements on Airbus by the new year.

Which fleet they received DOJ for? Baker once said 380s are waste of money

A380 waste of money = True

But you take the 380 pilots give them a TR/CCQ on a different fleet and sign a new 3 years bond. QR style.

Don't know how true the 380 pilot return is but lets wait and see.

Hi ,380 and 330 guys outside Doha ,were asked if they could join directly in the US .
Most likely the man power missplanning team together with the geniuses in the untraining department booked slots without observing travel and quarantine requirements.
Believe it or not they offer the new pay scheme and luckily the response they get is the gentle middle finger.

Which fleet are they being called for, 777 ?

Mes4x:

How do they join in the USA? They need Qatari TRE and they also need to do medical first.

All of them have a valid medical and as for the TRE part don’t forget that it is 45 days down the road.

So I guest those A380, A330 pilots are not the ones who got terminated last year otherwise their Qatari Medical has been expired by now.

Now that almost 80% of the total population of Qatar is vaccinated including a vast majority of the crew, they’ve just came up with a brand new shiny memo saying that all crew have to stay in the hotel promises in every single layover “due to a MOPH note” and cannot go out. Freedom is taken out once more without any explanation and rational reason.

So, most of us took the vaccine in order to get back to a kind of freedom and please them. We can go back home and come back without any issue (excepting providing a PCR) but in layover... NO! I can stay one month in the States if I want but I cannot leave my hotel when I have 3 days off in PHL! 🙈

Some hotels seem to have been contacted and asked to monitor and report the crew........ and some CSD would have been requested to spend time in the lobby watching...

Living the dream in a fairy tale!

Monitoring by the crew or hotel staff…freedom

you only need to check in our Instagram “pilots”pages and you will see how much locals are respecting our latest acn but they are untouchable anyway like in doha they are untouchable disregarding what ever they do

If you can’t go out in outstation so how come we are able to do it in Doha where the numbers been higher than pretty much in any European country.

Btw. The grooming monkey is back

Heard QR considering recruiting 787/777 skippers from the outside ?!
Not my opinion. Just what I heard

Back to being locked up in the crew hotel! Along with spies to report on any infringements! Bog standard QR methods of management!

Returning crew who are needy for a job, and who comeback 25% worse off. Please use QR as a stop gap. Get what you need out of them and go when things pick up. And if you need to leave with only a months notice - dont tell them. Just walk away. You wont be owed anything financially!

Lucifer786

they will use the ex 330/380 guys first and internal transfers from 320 so then the ex 320 guys can come back as well.

expect more movement from 350 to 777 with the grounding as well..

Everybody knows the company does not care about pilots or any employee, but one has to wonder how big a hole they can dig themselves?

On line its very clear that morale is through the floor across the board.

TREs are saying that guys are showing up to LPCs and just shrugging their way through.

Most FOs you speak to will tell you they have zero incentive past earning a crust to be here. No hope of an upgrade even to SFO and any left seat vacancy in the next 2 years will most certainly be filled by DECs. A lot of FOs I speak to are actively looking for an out. If things pick up elsewhere there is a real danger of blue on blue culture prevailing.

I was in Training for 3 years before the pandemic and some of the absolute clowns I saw come in would frighten you. Some days you'd be looking at a DEC in training and asking to see his documents again just to be sure. Yet when the axe came last year the good guys were tossed and the idiots stayed. HR basically took anybody who applied from certain regions to fill left seat vacancies and CV maneuvers were common.

The issue of guys not returning is chronic now and the big fear in the office amongst those with a "stable head" is that new recruitment in the future may be negatively impacted by the anecdotal stories told.

I came here 12 years ago. Had a family here, but dear god I cannot wait to be out of this circus.

well said
 

Very well said. I couldn't have written it better. Me as FO I can confirm everything you said. I was worried about my job at the beginning of the pandemic. Now? Now I don't care anymore and if I get fired I'll be glad someone made the decision for me. I'm incredibly tired, I'm just surviving on flights from lack of rest. Sometimes I'm so tired I'd rather just do paperwork and have no interest in flying. Constant fluster from poor communication and bad decisions by our management. I do the bare minimum just to make the flight safe and not have to explain anything in the office and the rest I don't really, really care. Now I look at my roster I just want to cry. A roster that is only legal in Qatar, according to EASA or FAA my license should have been suspended a long time ago. No chance to be home, see my folks and do perfectly normal things. I'm just flying, fighting fatigue, locked in a hotel room with no way to get out and eating economy food from plastic boxes. The Company has become a company for people who have to be here, not for people who want to be here. Sooner or later only people from problematic countries will stay here, for whom Qatar is unfortunately a better place to live. The rest will escape. You can see it in the cabin crew. All crews from developing countries, mostly from the Philippines, India and Thailand. Nothing against them, but this company is unable to offer anything other than tax free money. The only future here is be a baby sitter for the DEC. No thank you.

Don't forget, one day soon it will be you (as a captain), that will join a new airline. All DECs need time to adjust, just as all DFOs need time two.

Troll alert
 

Rug

Amazing, why is it that these posts are always written by someone who is new to pprune. The trouble with this statement is you fail to appreciate that pilot attrition is quite high as well as the fact that not everyone wants to come back on such a poor salary. FO on old contract earns more than a re-hired captain. Most people appear to be returning out of necessity rather than choice. Most I talk to are looking for the next job on a daily basis. Once the industry picks up (and it will), Qatar will be in deep :mad:

While what you are saying is of course true I think that is not the point he makes. I fly both of the Boeing types and a lot of FOs I fly with especially on the 787 say similar. Obviously we all take time to adjust to something new but the quality of some new hires on Boeing is well below the required standard especially given the weight of responsibility the OMA places on Captains with the narrow constraints put on FOs.
Short and rushed training courses coupled with the fact there is no requirement for wide body time do not help either.

Bottom line on this issue(and its a big issue the company ignores) is that talented FOs have left and will most certainly leave in the future due to a ridiculous lack of advancement opportunities. Currently they won't even give a guy his 3rd stripe when he earns it.
Training have been telling management for a while that soon DECs will be "unrosterable" under blue line restrictions. This is due to a lack of SFOs to as said above to "babysit".

Let go from 777 Capt in Dec, still waiting.

Rug

dont know if it’s true but all eligible Boeing pilots already called back,

Some ex 330/380 guys already back from outside and others have been contacted.

ex 320 only taken back from inside the country so far.