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-   -   Joining Qatar Airways (QR) - all you need to know about it (threads merged) (https://www.pprune.org/middle-east/288896-joining-qatar-airways-qr-all-you-need-know-about-threads-merged.html)

Qatari515 21st Sep 2008 09:28

Two dogs...whatever....

Did I ever say someone is lying? No!

Did I ever discuss Malaysias lifestyle and cost of living ( living a normal life and not a luxurious expat lifestyle)? No I did not!

All I ever did was adjusting the pink colored idea (I am NOT colorblind:sad: so not of the K9 family) of the Air Asia dream.
The stories my fellow pilots, who want to go there, keep on telling me are just not true! How do I know? Well, simply by talking to people who have been there. From normal line pilots to chief pilots! Because we have them all here, as you must now without a doubt!

They are all induced by a certain individual flying for QR at the moment, who is leaving all of a sudden to take a management position in AA in december, and who now is actively recruiting inside Qatar Airways!

Once more, everybody should do what he thinks is best for him and who am I to try to change that! I agree....but people should open their eyes and look at the real thing which are on the table!

Since you think I am happy here without ane reserves...think again mate! I am on the same roller coaster ride as everyone else, with ups and downs, highs and lows...

And for my self I had to admit that after all, QR is not THAT bad being an expat pilot! I get paid, I made progress, I have a worldwide network to travel on and I can save money! I am capable of admitting that and no cockpit rumor can change that as far I am concerned. Sure, EK and SQ might be better. MAybe so is CX.....but I would have to look long and deep into it before I would make a jump again as expat!

At the end, no matter where you go, you will always be the stranger in the bunch, the mercenary!

And better the devil you know than the devil you dont know!


sorry just saw your editted post now.

I got my facts from an FO who just did his interview and was offered a fast track upgrade. Interview lasted exactly 1 hour!

The salary you are quoting....OK so my source took 1500usd of it! Fair enough, maybe yours has been updated. Still what you are quoting is less than a FO salary here without housing allowance! Correct?

Plus no shooling benefits, no travel benefits,....

Only the vague promise of a possible upgrade and the lifestyle (KL lifestyle fits some, botters other)

Over and out!


P.Clostermann 21st Sep 2008 09:58

Heheheh, a good old pissing contest...always appreciated and lots of fun to read!

My opinion....

Everybody should do what he thinks is best for him. Don't listen to anybody, especially on forums like this one!

Set your goals (professionally, private) and go for it! If that means the malaysian lifestyle than that's fine. If it means the larger salary of Doha than it is Doha!

One thing I have to agree with QR515 (at least that's what he is trying to do) is that we should all stick to the facts only! Forums like this one would have so much more value if everybody would just leave his emotions out of it and gave the facts only!

Good luck to all of you in finding the righteous path!:\

vivace 21st Sep 2008 10:06

Q515, youre right..because of lack of education allowance if like me you have older kids then AA is no more an option.Like you say,its not for everybody. Education expensive there. But for the guys who went,they are flying as capts,there is no BS regarding the upgrade. I just flew with an FO who was there recently for the interview, one hour interview and a 1 hour sim check. Remember the ones making it for interview have been recommended or know the management there, from what I hear no one is getting in just by applying online. So they are interviewing guys they know basically.
Just have to wait for the kids to leave home, and ill be there too! QR still the third class company when it comes to the airlines im afraid.

Lulu qatar 21st Sep 2008 11:11

QA salary
F/O in Q.A gets same salary as Capt in A.A
Salary big or low ? depends of how much you can buy with it .
Doha : 1kg veg 4 times more then in Malaysia
1 kg of fish 2 times more then in Malaysia
rent of house 10 times more then in Malaysia
Starbucks 2 times more then there
A.A :Cabin crew can enter cockpit ( in red mini scirts )
Malaysian Capt who is recruting in QA is not pulling people come to AA they are asking him to help them get out of QR which dont have plan or job security and you must know that Lationo American F/O who jojn at 2006 is F/O number 231 in QA with rate of 15-30 upgrades per year only on A320 it will take him 7-11 y to command and when time come if he dont die of stupid roster and manage to reach intervew he might not know the answer on question :why the sky is blue ? he will fail after all this years waiting while in AA as soon he step in he get P1 SIM .

If you need in Qatar 25 K to live you would need 15 K in Malaysia i guess so youre salary is the same .

Ronaldo 330 21st Sep 2008 11:19

Air Asia
Kuala Lumpur ,Kota Kinabalu.... are really nice places to live .
Kuala Lumpur is NY for Doha .
Malaysia and Qatar what are you talking about ?
Malaysia truly Asia and Qatar truly desert.

AA dont have British management which make AA better by all means .

OrryFace 21st Sep 2008 11:53

Labor law
Read the small print. Qatar Labor law does not apply to certain categories of organisation and when it suits them that means QR. So never rely on it as applying to you. It might do...but there are plenty of instances where they choose to opt out.

Mr Ho 22nd Sep 2008 00:55

Always I want fly air asia, close home nice food. Fail interveiw and i come here to this luvly cuntry. Tankyou for job king of katamites :8

Low IN Fuel 22nd Sep 2008 05:18

Qatari 515,
It seems to me that all your facts based upon one F/O feeding you the information,so why you think you are right and every one else is wrong!think about it.

Hajj Man 22nd Sep 2008 07:19

Not really changing the topic here but what about the first post by LuLu Qatar.

I.M and B.W get direct on A330 so they can go for vacation with wifes to Bali and LHR
Getting paid to be in an office to organize the Training department sorted out and you go one week a month, every month on a long layover pleasure trip? Yes I know you like to fly but diving in Male or sitting on the beach in Bali should not be your main goal right now. You have a job to do, so sit in the office and do it. Once the job is done or at lease running a little better then you can go "FLY."

This is a huge problem because nothing has changed since you have gotten into the office or if it has, we have not seen it!

Does anyone else see it like this? Am I the only one who can see that these guys are here on a leasure trip?


AirbusMaster 22nd Sep 2008 07:42

to QR515 about Mr Ho
Qatari515,.I wonder if Mr Ho is just making a joke out of himself in each and every thread..?
Wasn't he the clown of the "QA Losing Instructors" forum??

AirbusMaster 22nd Sep 2008 08:01

to Hajj Man
Allow me to disagree with you, things has changed a lot since IM came to office, indeed to worse, but the change is obvious.

1-The guy got himself a wide body rating even before he sat in the office
2-He managed to push many captains away from joining the training team.
3-He demoralized both 320 and 330 TRE.
4- The slowest rhythm QA ever witnessed in any department (how many months is he talking about the MFF? yet he could not implement it (what a leader!)
5-The high rate of command upgrade failures during interviews, sim,line training and even final check!
6-The mess in the training department is obvious, instructors go to the sim unaware of today's session syllabus due to changing trainee without notification (I saw a TRI searching for the session syllabus because he never received the monthly training program, so he found someone's name that was not in his roster to get different training) I was told it happens regularly!!

But hey, the man is very busy in Bangkok and Bali, give him a break, he needs to accumulate hours on the 330 for the next airline!

Smirnoff N21 22nd Sep 2008 08:27

Jedem das seine
the phrase has a very symbolic meaning my friend namely During World War II, the Nazis used the German phrase at the entrance to the Buchenwald concentration camp. The gate reading "To Each His Own" remained in use after the war, when the Soviets occupied the camp and utilized it for the imprisonment of the Nazis themselves. That could also be easily written on the tech building's entrance with the exception of killing or torturing of course. Cut the long story short I value myself more than vain promisses thus abuse of trust has clearly taken place. As it turns out, the new policy has just made it clear that if I stayed I'd be screwed for the next 2-3 years on the 320. Remember 330 was promised to us. Is that a problem? NO i can live with that. Is that an abuse of your trust? YES. Accommodation same story etc etc etc. Once I've been told by very senior people in the airline a brilliant principle "the more senior you get the less you're respected" All in all it's QR's policy to cook you hopes and trust on the long flame and keep you hoping for whatever.... Hope dies at last, doesn't it. That's the answer to your questions QR 515 and as much as I respect you as a participant on this discussion, I have to comprehend the reality and simply do what's best for me, not for QR. It works out nicely for both of us QR got me fooled for 4,5 years keeping me in the right seat and the closer one comes to command the more rigorous the abuse becomes cause they simply believed one has got nowhere to go and it's too risky. I got 330/340 on my C.V. with world wide experience catapulting me to the top candidates as DEC on the list of others. There's always a way and as long as QR doesn't learn to treat people with dignity and human touch the outcome will be the same "abuse and get abused". As an individual one has got to face this question "DO I WANT TO DEAL WITH UNRELIABLE AND UNPREDICTABLE PARTNER?" If the answer is yes go for it if it's NO kiss it good bye.
Don't take it personally take it on the rocks!!!:ok:

A330 man 22nd Sep 2008 08:51

Once I've been told by very senior people in the airline a brilliant principle "the more senior you get the less you're respected" All in all it's QR's policy to cook you hopes and trust on the long flame and keep you hoping for whatever

Completely correct Smirnoff.

Qatari515 22nd Sep 2008 10:00

I agree on this one N21, a 100%! As usual you did put in exactly the correct wording! The comparison with Buchenwald is a bit harsh I would say, but all in all not a bad one:}

Good luck on your new career path, you deserve it!

Regarding AA, I think all has been said by now. No, I dont think I am right and all others are wrong. And No, I did not get all my info from one FO I met.Myself I looked into joining AA a while ago and I did lots of research. Good points as well as bad points where found by the way. AA is not a bad airline, but its certainly not the paradise some pilots here are hoping to find overthere!

All I tried to do is opening up the discussion, add some flavour to it and make people think! And by the looks of it I think I succeeded!Now its everybody for himself...

Good luck with the choices to be made and the paths to be followed! A lot of you guys will truly be missed around here if you decide to go!


Smirnoff N21 22nd Sep 2008 10:48

strictly down to business
well QR 515 since we agreed on terms let's make a bit of brainstorming. QR isn't a career path but just a business "partner", if you wanna call it this way. Hence no emotional binding is involved resulting in loyalty and engagement.
Therefore one has simply to compare risk/reward ratio with various entities.
Let's see that R/R ratio in QR:
1. upgrade 5 years earliest provided no political turmoil etc. I assume one will pass it without problems which is another issue.
2. Bond- used to be something like 30 K US $ or 3 years now it's gone I believe.
3. Upgrade A 320 only regardless of experience etc.
4. Fleet transfer 2-3 years stuck on 320 and then as needed by the company
5. Money monthly savings average about 3500 US $ a month without inflation currency depreciation. Medical care for the family provided.
6. living conditions...no comments.
7. Roster A320 in QR is a nightmare with endless night duties juiced up by split duties.
8. Stability very stable of course backed up by petro bucks.

AA or some others:
1. DEC A 320
2. NO BOND if rated or only 5000 US $ as DEC for the line training.
3. 320/330 mixed fleet flying after about 2 years.
4. Monthly income about 29000 MYR thus saving about the same as QR bearing in mind one get about 900 US $ a month into solely owned provident fund. That makes it 4400 US $ a month. Medical care for the whole family provided as well.
5. Living condition well no need to compare I hope you'll agree.
6. Roster 5 ON 4 OFF 5 ON 3 OFF exactly the same pattern as EZY.
7. Last but not least one can buy own property there for a reasonable price of 200 000 US$.
8. Schools British school in KL monthly costs 500 US $.
9. Stability quite stable backed up by inovation and fleet size of about 60 planes.

All in all why to bother with QR after all? If you found a good reason let me know please. The only reason to stay is A 330 PIC, that's about it.
Don't take it personally take it on the rocks!!!:ok:

vivace 22nd Sep 2008 11:50

Smirnoff N21 aka Popay aka the german guy, heard you flying in Europe now but waiting to join AA. Sounds complicated!

Smirnoff N21 22nd Sep 2008 21:38

vivace nothing escapes French intelligence ain't it? No in reality I'm on the NASA's payroll preparing myself to replace the next Qatari astronaut. Guess, I've been quite lucky to be able to choose where to join as DEC and it's advantageous to have an alternate. Wouldn't you agree? I'm sure you would. Keep on searching one day you'll find me waving Oryx on the moon.
Don't take it personally take it on the rocks!!!:ok:

fogs 22nd Sep 2008 22:59

Hi guys,

Went for a qatar airways interview last week in London. Just wondered what the usual response time is and whether anyone who attended on the 17th Sept has been invited to the sim assessment?

Lulu qatar 22nd Sep 2008 23:32

But you did the same . You wentto AA and got DEC on A320 and you would get the same and you are PROMISED in AA maybe A330 in 2 y and you would be PROMISED the same in QA . So whats the difference ? Yea KL is cool and AA is cool but for you was the same you where just step to command . And Smirinof why do you think you deserve A330 they everyone deserve it . So what if you had 6000 h or more there are a lot of them has it ? So what if you have P1 in JAR licence all european pilots has it coz its JAR ATPL like that. They promise you ? Who are they ? Like Cp or Ct promised you ha ha its not up to them and it was done for only few people . Well its starts again upgrades on 330 so maybe you miss the chance coz in Nov again upgrades on A330 ,youre juniors will get it and you will be in low cost in K.Kinabalu earning 29 k while Capt A330 gets 56-58 k in QA .Its ok you where optimistic in QA i remember you bringing youre wife on meeting with CEO and asking questions but we all knew OO he is just new he belive think will get better . If you dont get A330 in AA after 2 y ( maybe there are 60 local pilots who want it and they are 3-7 y in AA ) what will you say ?? AA not good ?

Smirnoff N21 22nd Sep 2008 23:53

LQ come on give it a break will ya, pls. All this mumbling about what if and speculation of what will be..... What I care about is what happened not what will happen. I can't predict the future but I can derive conclusions from the past. As I said initially the credit must be given however if abused consequences are to be drawn. That's about it nothing more to add. One more thing is choose very carefully who you deal with and that's 50% chance of success. I didn't ask for 330, it's the company and GMFO who came up with official statement in one of flight review, remember? Hence there was an official promise and the previous batch got it, why shouldn't I? Why should I play the game differently? Spare me the crap about 56K in Qatar will ya, cause you pay just 12K for housing and inflation does the rest. Fool yourself if like it's your choice. If the guys do get 330 so be it I wish them best of luck nothing wrong with that. The point however is that uncertainty and unpredictability remains the name of the game. If I don't get what I want I'll act accordantly however AA doesn't have a reputation of being full of sht.
As I said there's always a way. So far my instincts didn't let me down.
Don't take it personally take it on the rocks!!!

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