Qatar Airways - The Inevitable
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EK have chosen a low MTOW for their B777-200ER's and the engines they use are the Trent 892 because EK ordered their B777's to provide extra capacity routes ranging from short-haul to long-haul and not ultra-long haul routes.
I am guessing that if QR would choose the B772ER they will probably get a high MTOW option and high thrust engines for the 772ER's and QR will have less seats and hence less weight than EK since QR give more space for their passengers than EK. I am not saying that the B772ER's will fly with 21t of Cargo to JFK but their payload restrictions will be less than EK experience.
Previously QR have shown that they are not willing to tolerate payload restrictions. For example they were interested in the A321 but the range (with max payload) was considered to be to small (according to Tony Saville). I guess in some special cases such as CMN and maybe JFK they might think that they are willing to bleed cash just so they don't let a competitor entrench themselves in an important market.
EK for example [will] fly a max of 12-15t (over 21t for Euro and Asia) of cargo to PER and KIX, imagine how much more payload they will lose if they decide to use their B7772ER's to JFK.
Anyway no confirmation has come that QR has chosen the B772ER and from reading Riscy's post the 777LR is considered so no sense in me defending a possible choice for the B772ER.
[Thank you UTRF for correcting my spelling] - MTQatar
I am guessing that if QR would choose the B772ER they will probably get a high MTOW option and high thrust engines for the 772ER's and QR will have less seats and hence less weight than EK since QR give more space for their passengers than EK. I am not saying that the B772ER's will fly with 21t of Cargo to JFK but their payload restrictions will be less than EK experience.
Previously QR have shown that they are not willing to tolerate payload restrictions. For example they were interested in the A321 but the range (with max payload) was considered to be to small (according to Tony Saville). I guess in some special cases such as CMN and maybe JFK they might think that they are willing to bleed cash just so they don't let a competitor entrench themselves in an important market.
EK for example [will] fly a max of 12-15t (over 21t for Euro and Asia) of cargo to PER and KIX, imagine how much more payload they will lose if they decide to use their B7772ER's to JFK.
Anyway no confirmation has come that QR has chosen the B772ER and from reading Riscy's post the 777LR is considered so no sense in me defending a possible choice for the B772ER.
[Thank you UTRF for correcting my spelling] - MTQatar
Last edited by MTQatar; 22nd Sep 2002 at 17:13.
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Guys,
I think that either Qatar will go for the Airbus A340-500 only, OR, they will possibly still go for the same but will NOT commence services to the USA at all!!! (According to what I have heard mentioned today).
However, it is suggested that QR may decide to concentrate on a rapid and extensive expansion to Far Eastern and Asian routes, to compliment the increasingly numerous QR flights originating in Europe and North Africa.
Hong Kong, Taipei, Manila (direct), Singapore, Vietnam, are all mentioned as possible routes.
I find the above quite a distinct change in philosophy, i.e. no more plans to route to the USA.
This could also signal that Qatar are VERY CLOSE to entering one of the current alliances. Onward traffic from Europe to the USA could conceivably be executed using LH onward code-share services from Germany. However, QR would then need to enhance and increase current frequencies into MUC and FRA from DOH.
It is also highly likely that the forthcoming schedules to MAN will be timed to coincide with bmi's departures onwards to the USA from MAN, with possible code-sharing at a later stage.
To send the "oryx" into the USA, just because EK are doing so does not make any sense, other than keeping up with the Jones'.
The above considered, Mister Geezer, it is not entirely impossible that QR would join the STAR Alliance. Services of BD and LH would be quite well (and reciprocally) complemented by Qatar's high quality services from Middle East to MAN and Germany respectively.
Remember, there are a few other "smaller" carriers also present in STAR (Tyrolean for example - although conceded backed by OS).
My bet is that the above will be the actual plan implemented. But, entry into an alliance will be some time off. Let them get the new routes and codeshares established first of all. Walk before running!!!
LH have just sent their auditing team to Doha for an update on QR's status and suitability following recent concerns. Does anyone have any idea on the outcome of the audit?
I think that either Qatar will go for the Airbus A340-500 only, OR, they will possibly still go for the same but will NOT commence services to the USA at all!!! (According to what I have heard mentioned today).
However, it is suggested that QR may decide to concentrate on a rapid and extensive expansion to Far Eastern and Asian routes, to compliment the increasingly numerous QR flights originating in Europe and North Africa.
Hong Kong, Taipei, Manila (direct), Singapore, Vietnam, are all mentioned as possible routes.
I find the above quite a distinct change in philosophy, i.e. no more plans to route to the USA.
This could also signal that Qatar are VERY CLOSE to entering one of the current alliances. Onward traffic from Europe to the USA could conceivably be executed using LH onward code-share services from Germany. However, QR would then need to enhance and increase current frequencies into MUC and FRA from DOH.
It is also highly likely that the forthcoming schedules to MAN will be timed to coincide with bmi's departures onwards to the USA from MAN, with possible code-sharing at a later stage.
To send the "oryx" into the USA, just because EK are doing so does not make any sense, other than keeping up with the Jones'.
The above considered, Mister Geezer, it is not entirely impossible that QR would join the STAR Alliance. Services of BD and LH would be quite well (and reciprocally) complemented by Qatar's high quality services from Middle East to MAN and Germany respectively.
Remember, there are a few other "smaller" carriers also present in STAR (Tyrolean for example - although conceded backed by OS).
My bet is that the above will be the actual plan implemented. But, entry into an alliance will be some time off. Let them get the new routes and codeshares established first of all. Walk before running!!!
LH have just sent their auditing team to Doha for an update on QR's status and suitability following recent concerns. Does anyone have any idea on the outcome of the audit?
Last edited by A300Man; 2nd Sep 2002 at 21:29.
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I have heard the same thing concerning Asian routes. The plan is to start a batch of European/African destinations, followed by Asian destination etc...
If QR will not go to the US and focus on what they do best then the better for them but they will have to enter an alliance or kiss their North American passengers connecting in on UA, AC and LH goodbye.
Hong Kong, Taipei, Manila (direct), Singapore, Vietnam, are all mentioned as possible routes.
QR started to codeshare to HKG with MH so I guess they are seeing good results, TPE was mentioned as an extension of KUL but wouldn't that take too long as opposed to BKK, HKG or a nonstop route?
Vietnam would be interesting, QR would be repeating what they did in KTM, enter an underserved country without a strong national carrier and carve out a niche for themselves.
According to AAB they are awaiting government approval for daily services to both destinations, bookings to and from Europe this winter have been exceptionally strong and so I wouldn't be surprised if MUC or FRA had one or two extra weekly flights if the ASA agreed and slots available.
QR started codesharing with LH on the DOH-MUC route but the codeshare was dropped after the audit found that QR didn't meet LH's criteria in certain aspects such as Emergency management. As far as I know QR aim to comply with all of LH's standards by the end of the year, but I guess if the LH auditors have already been here the reccomendations have all been met.
Oh and happy Qatar Independence Day for all
If QR will not go to the US and focus on what they do best then the better for them but they will have to enter an alliance or kiss their North American passengers connecting in on UA, AC and LH goodbye.
Hong Kong, Taipei, Manila (direct), Singapore, Vietnam, are all mentioned as possible routes.
QR started to codeshare to HKG with MH so I guess they are seeing good results, TPE was mentioned as an extension of KUL but wouldn't that take too long as opposed to BKK, HKG or a nonstop route?
Vietnam would be interesting, QR would be repeating what they did in KTM, enter an underserved country without a strong national carrier and carve out a niche for themselves.
However, QR would then need to enhance and increase current frequencies into MUC and FRA from DOH.
LH have just sent their auditing team to Doha for an update on QR's status and suitability following recent concerns. Does anyone have any idea on the outcome of the audit?
Oh and happy Qatar Independence Day for all
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Happy Qatar National Day
Happy Qatar Independence Day to everyone viewing.
MT Qatar - don't you ever sleep?? Haha. I noted the timings of your two recent postings. Hope you are well.
I agree with your comments on the Vietnamese option. Would be a nice little niche market once established, but would rely totally on feed traffic from Europe. No market for direct DOH-Vietnam traffic as far as I can detect.
Don't see that it would work in the opposite direction though (i.e. feeding traffic from MNL and HKG to DOH, for reverting traffic to Vietnam?????) Makes no sense at all.
Have no more feedback yet on the Lufthansa Auditors visit last week.
MT Qatar - don't you ever sleep?? Haha. I noted the timings of your two recent postings. Hope you are well.
I agree with your comments on the Vietnamese option. Would be a nice little niche market once established, but would rely totally on feed traffic from Europe. No market for direct DOH-Vietnam traffic as far as I can detect.
Don't see that it would work in the opposite direction though (i.e. feeding traffic from MNL and HKG to DOH, for reverting traffic to Vietnam?????) Makes no sense at all.
Have no more feedback yet on the Lufthansa Auditors visit last week.
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A300Man,
Well noted, I actually made a post before I slept and I woke up at around 3:30am, I have been like this for quite a while no matter how late or early I sleep I always wake up this early.
WRT Vietnam even if QR relied solely on European traffic they will do well. Currently the existing Euro services are flying packed and since supply is so small ticket prices are expensive. If QR enters the market they will have no EK or GF competition and if loads are an issue they can always combine the route with another.
Over the past year the CAD has been renogitiating ASA's with many countries to allow QR to increase frequencies and to allow QR to get 5th freedom rights.
I also intended to say earlier that the A340-500 is a very heavy aircraft and is quite expensive to maintain, the fuel burn is unflattering too. Any use of the aircraft on routes shorter than 5500nm would be overkill. So if QR would not fly to the US the A345 would make no sense at all.
Well noted, I actually made a post before I slept and I woke up at around 3:30am, I have been like this for quite a while no matter how late or early I sleep I always wake up this early.
WRT Vietnam even if QR relied solely on European traffic they will do well. Currently the existing Euro services are flying packed and since supply is so small ticket prices are expensive. If QR enters the market they will have no EK or GF competition and if loads are an issue they can always combine the route with another.
Over the past year the CAD has been renogitiating ASA's with many countries to allow QR to increase frequencies and to allow QR to get 5th freedom rights.
I also intended to say earlier that the A340-500 is a very heavy aircraft and is quite expensive to maintain, the fuel burn is unflattering too. Any use of the aircraft on routes shorter than 5500nm would be overkill. So if QR would not fly to the US the A345 would make no sense at all.
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Guys once again have any of you people ever ever worked as flight/cabin crew for QR???I have and the only reason I took the job is because in the interviews the management painted a very glossy picture,and hid the real truth about what goes on in QR.I still have good friends who have no choice but to work forAAB,but the bad news keeps on coming.Why don't we hear stories from ex employees of BA,EK etc and these airlines are 10 times bigger than QR,the truth is that AAB treats his employees like dirt because there are no legal contracts issued to crew in Doha and therefore AAB has a free hand to walk all over the people without any problem from the government.People my advice is don't waste your time in working for QR but if you do I guarantee you will all be back here in the near future complaining about how you were treated.Bottom line is crew ,on the majority hate working for QR which is why the crew turnover is so big.QR will never be EK,2 different styles of management.Also with regard to safety QR is a bit lacking in this department.A certain decompression last year in which most of the oxygen masks didn't work?????Oh yeah AAB would not want to bump into me I promise he would very much regret it.
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Why is it that a lot of guys on this forum like to Bash QR just for the fun of it!
Every post that is a bit positive about QR gets smashed immediatly.....Is it like a favourite pass time in the region or what.
So what if QR is ambitious, so what if its CEO uses sometimes an iron hand to rule his company, So what if the Qatari are proud of their airline, so what if QR is the fastes growing airline......
I have flown QR once from LHR/DOH/DXB and I must say that the service provided is excellent! Staff professional and friendly, aircraft very clean, catering very nice.....
I was flying business class and it was the first time that I had a limo waiting on the tarmac to pick me up! Very impressive!
I wish them all the best......
Every post that is a bit positive about QR gets smashed immediatly.....Is it like a favourite pass time in the region or what.
So what if QR is ambitious, so what if its CEO uses sometimes an iron hand to rule his company, So what if the Qatari are proud of their airline, so what if QR is the fastes growing airline......
I have flown QR once from LHR/DOH/DXB and I must say that the service provided is excellent! Staff professional and friendly, aircraft very clean, catering very nice.....
I was flying business class and it was the first time that I had a limo waiting on the tarmac to pick me up! Very impressive!
I wish them all the best......
