Qatar Airways - The Inevitable
 

I have been a silent participant on the PPrune Forum for quite a while now. I am based in Europe and am a journalist involved in the Aviation and Business Travel Industry.

When an incident occurs (such as accident, collision, etc......), there is bound to be a real interest and this is verified by the sheer volume of postees alongside the topic box.

However, as a silent observer, it is amazing to have watched the furore and general level of extreme interest that has been generated on the subject of Qatar Airways.

It would appear to me that there are two distinct camps in the Qatar topics - those who absolutely detest the company and its management (ex crew and those who have suffered there) and those who are total fanatics of the company and will not hear a bad word said (MT Qatar, A300Man and others).

However, you guys I am sure all have personal interests in the Company (A300Man - I don't believe your contentions that you are not employed by the Company. You just know too much) and will find it difficult to remain unaffected and non-biased in your comments.

And, I hear your questions, what's my point............?

My point is that Qatar Airways are clearly an organisation with a tremendous future and who are currently going through the most dramatic phase of its existence right now.

But you guys out there, you are all playing into the hands of the very man that you all speak so much about.......the CEO, Mr. Akbar Al-Baker.

He thrives on the type of furore and interest that he has generated. During recent discussions with him at Farnborough, he confirmed that he is well aware of forums such as this one and he finds it all quite hilarious. (his words, not mine).

And he is adamant that those former crew members whom maintain were so badly treated by him, would never (even today after leaving the company) tell him to his face what they really think of him.

So, where do you all go from here? And what is the point of beating the hell out of each other on this forum???

Is it really correct to disuade all those hopefuls who so much want to join the company and fly for a living???

Comments please.

Palma

You a pen for hire?

The proponents of Qatar have lacked a little eloquence in their rebuttle.Maybe you are the answer.

Thanks.

But, sadly, I am definately not for hire. I am quite content to spend the rest of my days here in Palma where there are "real" issues to report on a daily basis, involving approx. 120 carriers and operators who regularly glide into Son San Juan.

No disrespect to the Qatar Airways fanatics. It is ladies and gentlemen like them who have more of a role in the making or breaking of the Company and the (successful) impact that the airline has, than the dis-illusioned former staff who are trying to disuade individuals not to join.

And, shock, horror and calamity from above..........A300Man, I have just been chatting to another Qatar Airways fanatic who is based in Muscat. He has told me some very interesting news about you...............this forum will never be the same again, should you elect to change your allegiance!

Enough said.

Palma de Mallorca,

Welcome to PPRuNe. Me, A300Man and now you have been accused of being agents of QR's PR department.

???? I don't understand what you said here. Anyways could you please put me in contact with that person, I need help with something and I think that since he is a QR fan he might be able to help me.

My goodness. How incredibly offensive. (To be "accused" of operating on behalf of QR's PR department.........) I can assure you and everyone else, although I don't really care in all honesty, that I would not touch QR's PR Department with the proverbial barge pole.

This is not due to any disrespect for Qatar Airways or the people there, but I am very happy doing what I am doing and where I am doing it! (Make sense?)

Upon completion of assignment, I shall disappear from the forum quicker than a burgundy and white A340 into Libya.

Regarding my "man" in Muscat, sorry. No can do. She's / he's strictly off limits as far as this one is concerned. You may wish to e-mail me with your questions though and I can put them to her / him?

Incidentally, we frequently have your Amiri aircraft down here in Palma, but not for quite some time. I guess that perhaps you don't love us any more??

Palma,

You're more than welcome to put your two bob's worth in but please do not wind up the locals. Jorno's, as I'm sure that you are aware, are viewed with some suspicion.

Bear in mind the nature and purpose of this site, as clearly spelt out by it's title and we'll get on just fine.

4HP

Palma de Mallorca.

Welcome to the Forum:-

1) Please see the Moderators comments above;

2) What exactly do you mean about me changing my allegiance? From whom to whom? Or from where to where?

3) I assure you that " I do not work for Qatar Airways".

4) I have just arrived in Doha on a flight from Dubai and was sitting thinking how much I was enjoying the onboard service on this 45 minute hop! I just received the most wonderful cabin service from the most attentive FA that I have ever met in my life. Guess which airline I was flying? But, small though Qatar Airways and Doha may be in comparison to the wonderful Son San Juan, we too have "real issues" to address out here. Palma isn't the centre of the aviation universe.

5) And finally........the pressures of the job as CEO of the World's most rapidly expanding airline must be taking its toll on Mr. Akbar Al-Baker's memory.......you may have a distinct recollection of the conversation that you had with him at Farnborough, but he certainly doesn't remember meeting you, nor does he recall anyone going out of their way at the worlds greatest air show to ask questions about the Pprune forum.

Not that I am in any way doubting you, but could you perhaps just shed a little more detail on the conversation in question and also on the remit of your assignment.

I am sure that my fellow regional Ppruners shall be only to glad to assist you in any way that we can.

With best regards from DOHA! Welcome once again.

Palma de Mallorca

Qatar Airways - The Inevitable

I have wished that you stay silent. You said the wrong things about QTR.

I do not want to go into details cause you may not like it,

By the way u hate the CEO "Akbar", me too but I can say the same about many arab's including rulers, do you have the guts???

regards

My my my Riscy.

Your tone has certainly changed from what it was a few weeks ago when you were providing all of us with detailed information which would have suggested that you were very much in the fold at Qatar Airways (the "777" story) and that you were close to the ongoing events within the company.

All that has certainly changed, since:-

= today you have stated (in a post under subject "Qatari Incident") that you are only one line away from God Akbar;

= in this post you have now stated that you "hate" Akbar and even all rulers??????? I AM confused!

= what details do you wish be kept silent so as to avoid damaging others??

Please do explain what exactly you mean. We are ALL waiting for your reply.

Dear Riscy,

I am sorry if I offended you or others. I perhaps over-stepped the mark when making my initial enquiry. I am new to the Middle East forum.

I don't really want to get into a deabte about you or me or any others having the "guts to hate people and say so".

However, if you have any interesting information about future events at Qatar or any inside info, I would of course be pleased to hear it.

Sorry once again for causing offence.

Palma,

You have been trying to contact me? Cannot get back to you as message fails. Do you have alternative e-mail address?

Incidentally, I am not yet in Bahrain.......where did you get this info from anyway?

I'm sorry, but i've had a wine or to. This thread is absolutly horse manure. A300 man are you akbar? or just so far up him that you can see out of his mouth. this forum is for pilots.

Palma sorry to disappoint you but your wrong on one of those points I would certainly tell that little man (poor excuse for a man) exactly what I think of him, did then and will do it again.

ia1166 sorry is this forum just exclusive for pilots (dont think so matey)

Palma

Being someone who has spent some time on the 'island' during the past, your name caught me by surprise. Firstly, I am rather puzzled in thinking how much interest there would be from the average local reading his paper one morning with his 'Café con Leche and Ensaimada' and finding an article on Qatar Airways. Maybe your interest is purely personal, or are you an aviation correspondent? Do you write for a local or national paper? Anyway it is interesting that the never ending Qatar Airways debate has attracted the press!

I address this paragraph to all! Qatar Airways has and will continue to be a topic which is discussed to great lengths on PPRuNe. I am a great fan of Qatar Airways, and I would drop everything at a moments notice to fly for them. Since the days of 727s and 747s, they have vastly improved. They can and I sincerely hope that they become a world-wide brand name as well as staying profitable and at the same time, offering a superb service to the customer. I understand that QR has obviously been through some rocky times during the past and this is reflected in the various posts that we have all seen from mainly ex QR employees. What has been done can't be changed but I wish that we could look forward to QR's future instead of dwelling on the possible shortfalls during the past. Snackbar is obviously pleasing the right people otherwise he would of been shown the door. Negative comments will not achieve anything and since Snackbar's job security is out side our 'sphere of control', I don't see how us moaning will change anything in Doha. As the saying goes, It is a free world out there and if QR is not your cup of tea then don't join but unnecessary company bashing is never good to see on PPRuNe.

Finally, being a journo, I hope you can answer my question. Has the Qatari Royal family made any investment on the island or do they holiday there? Only asking since I have seen a few pictures of aircraft from the Amiri flight at PMI.

MG

Listen fellas. any airline can proclaim to be the worlds fastest expanding airline if its government ploughs huge tracts of cash into it. frankly i hold BA or QANTAS in much higher regard. despite the worlds troubles these operatiopns have posted a small profit with completely transparent management and accounting practices. stop self glorification and see it for what it is.

Remember that BA had to ask Big Brother!
 

ia1166

I seem to recall that BA had to lean on Mr Blair after 11 Sept. UK Government funding to help dampen out the effect of the big jump in insurance costs is, a classic example of this. I am sure BA's books are in a better state today because of that government funding!

MG

Why is it every time a QR aircraft lands in Doha there are 6 lexus waiting on the ramp to pick up the Qataris on board? Are you a nation of VIP's?
As ia1166 said, wake up and smell the coffee.

ia1126 and CaptSnails,

From conception in 1993 untill 2000 Qatar Airways was a private entity, the government held no equity in the airlines and QR wasn't even the official carrier of Qatar. The honour went to Gulf Air instead.

The airline is owned by a group of private investors encompasing business men, Al-Thani's, and and insurance firm. In 2000 a 50% stake in the airline was sold to the government and QR was officially cristened the official flag carrier of Qatar. QR also had access to loan guarantees from the government.

QR still achieved remarkable mile-stones before government involvement especially after the 1997 restructuring.

As I said above QR does recieve subsidies in the form of loan gurantees and preferential treatment. QR claim to be one of the world fastest growing airlines (e.g. 65% increase in passenger figures in 1Q 2002 over 1Q 2001 !!!) but they admit that they are loss making and say that profitability will take around 5 years to achieve. Up to then it is the shareholders responsability to cover the losses.

QF and BA need to have transparent accounting and management because they are not private companies. For example BMI doesn't release financial details to the public because they are a private entity and so don't have an obligation. QR is in the same position, QR plan to have an IPO by the end of the decade if they develop by the business plan and then they will release all financial records from inception upto the date of the IPO and continue to release details to the public after that. Now neither you are me have a right to access these records since they are for the shareholders to see.

First of all what you saw were BMW 7 series vehicles. The reason you see so many of these BMW's is because QR provide them for all of their First Class passengers regardless of race, religion, wealth or social status. VIP's and airport officials use the white BMW's and the QR F pax use the ones in the QR livery with the oryx logo.

The white BMW's are available for all Al-Thani's, government officials, foreign VIP's, celebrities, important guests, foreign diplomats, local prominent figures like religious leaders etc.... Also Airport officials like the director of the airport use these BMW's to commute within the airport grounds or to inspect incoming aircraft or ground facilities.

Mister Geezer is right, in most parts of the world including Europe and the US many airlines had to rely on their governments for aid including loan guarantees which is the form of subsidies QR gets. This is because governments realise the airlines are an integral part of the engine that drives their economies. So if a major airline fails you will see less foreign business men investing, less tourists spending, less infrastructure to import/export goods, less awareness of a country internationalyy and worst of all lost jobs.

Gulf Air didn't employ many Qataris even pre-Qatar Airways. The majority of Gulf locals in GF were from Bahrain even though Qatar, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain and Oman have an equal share in the airline. Gulf Air didn't contribute it's fare share to the economy, GF didn't do much to market Qatar as a tourist destination, didn't do much to market Qatar as a whole.

Gulf Air also reduced a lot of their flights out of DOH and that didn't offer a lot of choice for Qatari's to travel. The airport facilities were severely under-utilised which would mean a higher per unit cost.

The lack of flights to main business centres even means foreign business will overlook Qatar to set up a regional base. There was a case of a multi-national seeking to open a regional base and they had two competitive offers from Qatar and another country in the Gulf. The Qatar option was the best in-terms of lower costs but the decision was finally taken to go to the other Gulf country because the executives didn't want to have to take a connection in BAH everytime they commute.

For reasons of Qatar's Brand Identity, employement of local population and promotion to foreign tourists and bussineses Qatar took the decision to aquire a stake in QR and aid them untill they can get back on their feet.

This doesn't only happen in "backward countries with too much oil money to blow" it happens all over the world. You can look at Air France in the early 90's for example.

Also to suggest the QR doesn't have a commercial aim is untrue. If the shareholders just want QR as an avenue to blow money in without any commercial goals why did they employ proffesionals to run the airline. Why didn't they incorporate the company into a ministry or why didn't they have government officials run the airline like they have with Qatar's other state-owned business?

If Qatar Airways has no commercial sense then they wouldn't need to have an excellent on-board product, strict training regimen for front-line staff to offer the best service, excellent on-board catering etc... too attract as many passengers as possible.

Look at other state-owned airlines who have poor inflight product, deteriorating quality and sub-standard front-line facilities such as lounges like Saudi Arabian Airlines. They don't need to have a good overall product with commercial style management because they don't need to attract any customers since even if they have a fleet of 1000 B747-400's flying with no passengers the government will still cover their losses.

MTQatar,
Thank you for your views, however I think it's only fare to mention that since you are part of the (deleted on request) family, your views are most likely somwhat bias.

You mentioned among other things that:

Gulf Air didn't employ many Qataris even pre-Qatar Airways. The majority of Gulf locals in GF were from Bahrain even though Qatar, Abu Dhabi, Bahrain and Oman have an equal share in the airline. Gulf Air didn't contribute it's fare share to the economy, GF didn't do much to market Qatar as a tourist destination, didn't do much to market Qatar as a whole.

Gulf Air also reduced a lot of their flights out of DOH and that didn't offer a lot of choice for Qatari's to travel. The airport facilities were severely under-utilised which would mean a higher per unit cost.

First of all GF employed vertually all Qataris who applied, except ofcourse those who did not meet the required standards. The truth of the matter is that (the average) Qataris had much better things to do than to learn how to be a professional pilot. See per capita income and compare that to the rest of the owner states.
As far as GF reducing flights from Doha, that only happened when QR started flying and demanded to take a share of the routes. Besides a country like Qatar does not justify many more flights because of lack of shear passenger volumes in and out of Qatar.


In 1986 the population had reached 370,000 and by 1992, nearly 500,000. The present number is made up of about 25% of Qatari nationals, with the rest being expatriates.

Of the latter, by far the largest groups come from the Indian subcontinent (dominated by Pakistanis and Indian Keralites), other Arab countries (notably Egypt, Jordan, Palestine and Syria) and the Philippines.

So assuming today the total population is approximately 600,000(of which 75% are low income expatriates) please justify how it's possible to sustain an airline of the size of QR never mind its ambitious growth plans, considering Qatar is a country with absolutely no tourism and most certainly not a hub for Asia or Europe.

I find nothing wrong in you just admitting openly that, you know what we have the money and we want to create our own airline as an image maker for the country irrespective of what it may cost. But please don't try and tell us that a country like Qatar justifies such a move nor that such a move makes financial sence because you have better chances selling freezers to eskimos.

Regards and best of luck.

I applaud the Qatari's for having a go (even if MTQatar, A300man, etc. do lay it on a bit thick). In time, they will learn they cannot treat staff like chattels (educated staff, anyway).

Build it and they will come.