Is war likely with Iran? Consequences for EK?

[captjns]

I've yet to see democracy achieved as a result of the "ArabSpring" in any of the countries where liberation has taken place. Where'sthe improvement? Citizens are still being slaughtered in these so-called liberated countries.

That said.. where's the so-called freedom? Former Tyrannical despots of Egypt, and Libya havebeen replaced by regimes and war lords carving up the real estate. Stand by for civil war folks.

Yemen may be the nextto enjoy their liberation too.

El Presidente de Syria may maintain his standprovided Iran and Russia continue to assistance… from the side lines? After all where else would Hamas get their goodies from?

These revolutions remind meof the 1971 Woody Allen Movie… “Bananas”.

Woody Allen isdumped by his activist girlfriend, he travels to a fictitious tiny LatinAmerican nation, San Marcos, and becomes involved in its latest rebellion.

One despot who considered hispeople as ignorant peasants is overthrown by a revolutionary to establish a democracyand freedom for the people of San Marcos. But, when the revolutionary gets into power, he takes the same positionas his predecessor with the thoughts that the people of San Marcos are tooignorant to vote a new leader under a democratic system. He too is wacked and Woody Allen steps in asthe successor President.

[SassyPilotsWife]

The blame game

For all of you who constantly want to bitch and blame the US for getting in the " business" of other countries.. I've got a question for you...

WHAT IF WE DIDN'T ?

You can all bash the US, yet everyone comes to us for aid, everyone comes to us for military support. Ohh everyone loves the Americans when we're sending billions of dollars in disaster aid, military aid etc when countries are slaughtering their own, dying from famine and natural disasters. But then they run their mouths blaming the worlds problems on us.

I'm an American and I totally support us pulling out of every damn **** country we are in, lets keep our money in our own country and take care of our own! Lets protect OUR OWN borders rather than others. Lets feed our own famine, lets make sure every child in America, regardless of their parent's choices do not go to bed hungry and homeless. and dammit.. lets take care of our OWN veterans rather than spending billions training others who a few of them retaliate and kill the same soldier who trained them. I wish every single one of you who want to keep stating " the Americans or the US" would end that statement with government. Because I assure you, 99% of America would rather see our own country and people be taken care of rather than everyone else.

But.. if we did that....

What would happen to the rest of the world ???

[SCATANA]

Nothing......Life goes on, as it did for tens of thousands of years before America ever existed.

[MrMachfivepointfive]

WHAT IF WE DIDN'T ?

History teaches us that whereever and whenever the US decided to intervene the resulting mess was bigger than at the start. From United Fruit Company over Vietnam to Iraq. Please also remember that the US created AQ and OBL to piss off the Ruskies.There is a notable exception to that rule: Post WW2 Germany and Japan.

[SCATANA]

@ Mach5.5

It's because the american war vs germany & japan was legit and not based on lies or corporate/self interests.

[SCATANA]

Very informative...

Learned more watching this than I did in 52 years

Professor Norman Finkelstein, Jewish Academic and expert on the Israel/Arab conflict:

Norman Finkelstein - Excellent talk on the Israel-Palestinian conflict - YouTube

[Sciolistes]

Please also remember that the US created AQ and OBL to piss off the Ruskies.

It is alo worth pointing out tht te US gave Iran nuclear technology too! Stop digging boys

[maybepilot]

Good propaganda film loopy, same for you SCATANA.

Here is some reality however, like this one in peaceful and tolerant Sweden:

[break_break]

WHAT IF WE DIDN'T ?

And I believe someone replied..

Nothing......Life goes on, as it did for tens of thousands of years before America ever existed.

Of which I only agreed to partially, since the REAL consequence will be the biggest ever recession the Great US Of A will ever experience.

SassyPilotsWife

Do you have any inkling of the reliance of US economy on its military activities? EVERY SINGLE level headed American would wish to head home, but ALL EDUCATED Americans knew they can't. This is the way it's gonna be, for many years to come.

On the same token, I sure hope the war is NOT imminent.

[gorter]

It's been said, but easy enough to repeat. The US economy is based on disaster capitalism. If the US 'brought the boys n gals home' the US economy would collapse.

[blusky75]

Interesting

Four scenarios on Iran nuclear program - CNN.com

[RunSick]

SI
Great post!

[Guy D'ageradar]

Seconded

[captainsmiffy]

more than a few home truths in there, I feel...! Well written and, for once, with the emotion taken out!

[maybepilot]

sittingidly:

Did you know that 1/3 of all US Aid goes to Israel and Egypt. I didn't until now. Why is it that the case?

the fact sheet you presented , from a clearly pro-palestinian/arab cause link, fails to mention the TOTAL aid that countries receive since it only talks about US foreign aid spending.
If you sum the total aid the Palestinans receive globally you will find out that each palestinian gets about 5 times more what each European received with the Marshall plan after WWII in today's exchange rate, to be more specific they receive from the world a little more than what the US gives Israel in military aid.
Where does all that money go?
In the case of Israel it's quite obvious: into a formidable defence force.
In the case of the Palestinians it isn't that clear since they keep claiming a humanitarian crises.

There are hundreds of US Military bases around the world and the majority of their locations follow the same pathway that oil flows.

While nobody disputes the fact that oil plays a vital role in the economics and lifestyle of the western countries the above piece of info is misleading and far from being the truth: the major overseas US military installations are in Europe (no oil there) and in the Pacific Far East (no oil there either).

-on the other hand, it must be acknowledged that the US is still the largest contributor of Foreign Aid but much of that is Military Aid

Your acknowledgment of the US being the largest contributor of global aid is correct , what isn't true is that much if it is military aid in fact out of 45bln total only 11bln is military.

But it does explain many other things, such as why the majority don't even support universal health care for their fellow citizens. Or why many people decree that they should '' just go bomb the place and leave a big glass crater in the ground''. Or even why Americans say ''sir'' all the time on the radios

The above generalization says it all about where you stand.....try to google up the amount of scientific discoveries made by the Americans in the last 150 years compared to the rest of the "much more civilized" world and report back.

[fliion]

Maybepilot,

Excellent rebuttal to the Sittys highly subjective post.

Everything In life is a trade -off. There are essentially three mega nuclear powers - China, Russia & the US.( the EU is a collection - deeply connected to the US)

Now go and ask yourselves: these are my three choices, which system will give my kids the greatest opportunity...Should one become dominant.

Simply put the US is a huge counterweight to nations that get out of line - .

What's funny is the US has gone to war many times in my lifetime to protect Muslims when the Muslims themselves had neither the balls or strength to take care of their own. Cue the Afghan Muslims in the 80's, Kuawaiti & Saudi Muslims in 1991', the Bosnian Muslims 1995, the Kosovar Muslims in 1998', the Libyan Muslims in 2011.., not to mention the gargantuan humanitarian aid to the Indonesian Muslims during tsunami, the famine of the Somali Muslims during Blackhawkdown etc.

Boy I tell you ... All that free oil we've got from the above nations was worth the body count

Of course that's the inconvenient truth....and who is paying for it...the American taxpayer ...next time you guys take care of it on your own.....after all you have it figured out. Now go check your iPhones and date check me, wearing your Raybans & your American Eagle shirts while your sitting in Starbucks before you head off to grab a cheeseburger on the way to the movies...

nobody in the US queuing at this regions embassies for a better life...care to checkout the line at the US embassies around the world ....

I want to puke....Pathetic

f

[captjns]

130 Rockets fired into Israel during the preceding 24 hours... unprovoked... Why? Where did the money for these rockets come from?


Very good show this morning on MSNBC hosted by Chris Matthews.

[fliion]

Sitty

Is this the same Australia that just invited the US to base 2,500 US Marines in the North as a counterweight to Chinese military expansion...?

Don't worry mate..your country is not alone in inviting the US to base servicemen in their country as a counterweight ...

Here are just a few that roll off the keyboard:

Germany, UK, Spain, Turkey, Qatar, UAE, Saudi, Japan, Korea, Italy, Kuwait, Uganda, Poland, Kosovo, Pakistan, some other 'Stans, ?...plenty more .....not to mention the thousands that roam the oceans ready to airlift in humanitarian supplies to those in need...on the back of our tax dollars...don't resent it...to the contrary very proud and happy to pay our way...

May your kids sleep well at night my friend....

f

[Trader]

Sittingly:

1. Regarding US education vs India. The worlds top schools are in the US and draw the worlds best students. Good article in The Economist a few years ago quoted senior Indian Buisiness and Education leaders saying that 80% of Indian grads are unfit to work in India never mind the rest of the world.

Sorry, but given the choice I choose a Western trained doctor from a good school over one from India or Asia!!!!

2. Oil - who benefited???? I tell you--we ALL have. The consumer in EVERY part of the world has benefited through cheaper oil. Oil affects EVERY SINGLE commodity. The most serious being food prices and, during the last jump in oil prices, we seen riots in many countries over food prices.

I'm not a fan of the corporate world at all (especially the financial thieves who screwed the world economy) but it is quite clear that moderately priced oil is important to the world economy.

3. US counterweight to the world - the Cold War was actually a nice stable time. 2 sides, each respectful and fearful of the other, each with a lot to lose. Result - is a nice status quo system where the 'enemy', regardless of which side you are on, is well known and predictable.

Today that is gone, with more parts of the world unstable or threatening to become unstable.

While I may not like US foreign policy, or the wars they have entered/started, I am happy that they are there, that they are willing to flex their muscle and that they have the power to do it.

I don't believe that the Middle East, India, China or Asia have anyone elses best interest in mind. Niether do the Western countries and, while I don't believe that economics or politics are zero sum games (meaning that for one to benefit the other must lose) when it comes to my son's future if I have to choose his future versus 'the other side'- I choose his!!!

The US is the big kid on the block and so are an easy target. But the dictatorships and pretend democracies of the ME, India, Russia and China are far worse. Yes, the US has a few hundred 'prisoners' in Guantanemo and yes they tortured some of them. Pretty pathetic. But not nearly as pathetic as what goes on in the four areas I mentioned above. NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!

I'm not an American and, as I stated, don't like some aspects of their foreign policy and absolutely despise their system with regards to the financial system which has, literally, STOLE billions of dollars out of the average guys pockets and left things in a shambles. The political system and financial system are corrupted and we should fight like hell to rectify it.

But, in the end, I still choose THAT system and THAT country over what we see in the ME, India and China.

[maybepilot]

Trader,

very good post, fully agree with you.

Sittingidly,

if the rest of the world is contributing higher percentages to countries other than Israel and Egypt, that supports my argument!

The rest of the western world (USA included) pours into the pockets of the many ME and Asian countries amounts of money that Israel could only dream of and bear in mind that Israel only gets aid from the USA to maintain what is called its QME (qualitative military edge) in order to deter numerically superior adversaries.
Yes because Israel is literally surrounded by adversaries who would not hesitate a minute to wipe all of its citizens off the face of this planet.
On the other hand Israel's QME has never been used to wipe anybody off but always in retaliation to indiscriminate attacks on its territory (yes because like it or not it is a country recognized by the UN) and on its civilians.

what does the Marshall plan have to do with 2012? Then you stated that Israel receives an amount of Aid from the US, that the Palestinians only receive from the rest of the world. Which once again supports my argument.

Israel only receives aid from the USA and only for its own QME (about 2.5bln$/year) , the Palestinians have been receiving a slightly bigger amount from the rest of the world (about 2.6bln/year) but only in the form of economic help and development (for their military development they receive help from well known countries but there are no fact sheets available).
The amount per person that the Palestinians receive a year is about 5 times higher what the Europeans received from the Marshall plan after WWII but while the Europeans managed to rebuild an entire continent and become wealthy again the Palestinians only manage to cry for more help while educating their children to racial hatred, martyrdom and religious fanaticism.
Israel is ranked 4th in the world for scientific activity (measured measured by the number of scientific publications per million citizens) and 17th for HDI (human development index as published by the UN) while the first ME country in that ranking is the UAE coming 30th (however almost 90% of its population are expats).
This clearly shows that the money spent for Israel is money pretty well spent, can't really say that for the mega billions spent for the many muslim sharia run countries around the globe.

humanitarian crisis... caused by the very nation that is receiving your support in military aid? As far as the P’s ''claiming a crisis'', if you call it a claim and not a reality, then you don't understand what is actually happening on the ground.

The crisis which is all but humanitarian is caused only and primarily by the Palestinians themselves ,by the friends they chose to have on the international scene and by the wide spread ignorance and lack of education.
And believe me, I know VERY WELL what is happening on the ground......