Emirates going with DEC
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 4,835
Likes: 85
From: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Failure rate was not 20% more like 70% for DEC at interview. The sim profile is where most fall. Don't know where the 20% came from but its total rubbish.
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 655
Likes: 0
From: South of North
Guessing that if they do hire DEC's it will be a small number to cover a short term shortage in training needs. They will pick and choose those with WB command and that it is. I highly doubt we will see any 737 captains joining us a DEC's.
If you want proof look at the past - how many DEC's do we see and certainly no large grouping of them on the seniority list.
If you want proof look at the past - how many DEC's do we see and certainly no large grouping of them on the seniority list.
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Posts: n/a
Christ, I can't wait to apply, it'll be fun working with all these people.
DEC may put back some promotion prospects but, if that what the company wants....
If you think about it, aviation is one of the few professions where you are expected to start at the bottom again when you change company.
Would a surgeon moving hospitals expect to be a junior again ?
DEC may put back some promotion prospects but, if that what the company wants....
If you think about it, aviation is one of the few professions where you are expected to start at the bottom again when you change company.
Would a surgeon moving hospitals expect to be a junior again ?
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: Nowhere
A surgeon or any other professional does not base his pay, vacation and bidding based on senority. Pilots do and hence a senority list.
The reason the industry sucks besides us pilots being complete tossers is airlines don't have to pay market rates or industry standard when they can just bring a DEC in from a !!!!e company (jumping the senority list) and pay him less than Market Rates.
Good airlines' pilots have figured this out and ban DECs for very good reasons. Besides the ethical issues they suppress wages.
Having a look back at EK one will also notice the company does not save any training costs if they have that much of a failure rate and require additional training.
Does anyone know if TCAS buddies are looking for a job? We all know that EK does not need any DECs so one has to wonder why EK is bringing in the DECs. TCAS would know.
The reason the industry sucks besides us pilots being complete tossers is airlines don't have to pay market rates or industry standard when they can just bring a DEC in from a !!!!e company (jumping the senority list) and pay him less than Market Rates.
Good airlines' pilots have figured this out and ban DECs for very good reasons. Besides the ethical issues they suppress wages.
Having a look back at EK one will also notice the company does not save any training costs if they have that much of a failure rate and require additional training.
Does anyone know if TCAS buddies are looking for a job? We all know that EK does not need any DECs so one has to wonder why EK is bringing in the DECs. TCAS would know.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,361
Likes: 81
From: UK
And not so at most other airlines around the world. The bottom line is costs. Airlines are around to make money for owners and shareholders. It's the grim reality. I'm not saying I agree with it.
I can see what is being said about DEC's and on the whole I agree. If and when I move on from my current LHS role for the last 8 yrs, I could not afford to move back to a RHS job, nor would I take the risk. If there was a DEC Job available with another carrier, I would take it. Just being honest.
I know I am not alone when I say this.
I can see what is being said about DEC's and on the whole I agree. If and when I move on from my current LHS role for the last 8 yrs, I could not afford to move back to a RHS job, nor would I take the risk. If there was a DEC Job available with another carrier, I would take it. Just being honest.
I know I am not alone when I say this.
Opening date
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
From: Springfield
EK may or may not have enough qualified FOs to upgrade, I don't have the numbers. What EK doesn't have is enough instructors... Despite raising the pay for LTCs to just under that of a TRE, very few are applying. So they will turn to DECs with training experience with some lock into training deal. That's my guess.
I do miss 411A and his wisdom on DECs...
I do miss 411A and his wisdom on DECs...
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
From: UK
So here is my input.
I'm nearer retiring that starting my career. I've done military, civil, long haul, short haul, national airline, charter, major low cost, wide body, narrow body, airbus, boeing including management time and training roles.
The truth is that there are good and bad guys in all areas. Todays long haul captain is tomorrows low cost captain and it works both ways.
There is a certain arrogance in SOME posts here from EK that SOME there think they are better than others. It is quite correct that if recruiting DEC's there should be a high rejection rate at selection; if that high rate continues during training then there is either something wrong with the training or there was something wrong with the selection.
DEC's bring different experiences which can be useful and amongst other things, can help to avoid those within a large company thinking that they are in some way superior - they probably are not. A DEC will inevitably take a little while to become familiar with new destinations but this is not unsafe; if it was how would any airline ever go somewhere new?
A large company like EK can absorb some DEC's and benefit from the experience whilst still leaving the large majority of LHS slots for internal upgrades.
Finally, few of us these days join an outfit as a young F/O and stay there until we retire. Most will at some point leave, quite possibly from the LHS and seek a DEC job somewhere so just cut the hypocritical rubbish.
I'm nearer retiring that starting my career. I've done military, civil, long haul, short haul, national airline, charter, major low cost, wide body, narrow body, airbus, boeing including management time and training roles.
The truth is that there are good and bad guys in all areas. Todays long haul captain is tomorrows low cost captain and it works both ways.
There is a certain arrogance in SOME posts here from EK that SOME there think they are better than others. It is quite correct that if recruiting DEC's there should be a high rejection rate at selection; if that high rate continues during training then there is either something wrong with the training or there was something wrong with the selection.
DEC's bring different experiences which can be useful and amongst other things, can help to avoid those within a large company thinking that they are in some way superior - they probably are not. A DEC will inevitably take a little while to become familiar with new destinations but this is not unsafe; if it was how would any airline ever go somewhere new?
A large company like EK can absorb some DEC's and benefit from the experience whilst still leaving the large majority of LHS slots for internal upgrades.
Finally, few of us these days join an outfit as a young F/O and stay there until we retire. Most will at some point leave, quite possibly from the LHS and seek a DEC job somewhere so just cut the hypocritical rubbish.
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
From: a seat on a fence
I've done...
...management time...
...certain arrogance...
...think they are better than others...
...thinking that they are in some way superior...
...just cut the hypocritical rubbish.
Be sure to take this line at the interview.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 332
Likes: 0
From: UK
I do not think I at any time mentioned applying.
Don't assume check - one of the golden rules
For the record, I'm not applying as I have a job that pays more and despite ups and downs as in any airline, I am content at present.
Don't assume check - one of the golden rules
For the record, I'm not applying as I have a job that pays more and despite ups and downs as in any airline, I am content at present.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,361
Likes: 81
From: UK
I 100% agree gypsy. Why do some people think that every time you join a new airline you must start at the bottom?
How many out there would seriously consider going from a Captain to a Junior FO every time they moved on?
Wait until they are in the LHS I can guarantee they'll see things differently.
How many out there would seriously consider going from a Captain to a Junior FO every time they moved on?
Wait until they are in the LHS I can guarantee they'll see things differently.
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: UK
And finally the speculation ends...........https://ekgrpapplications.emirates.c...AD3E6059F3E34D
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Middle East
I'm quite surprised to see the weight requirement is 50T instead of 55T. I'll bet there will be a huge number of DEC applicants with no time in anything larger than ERJ190/195(over 50T but under 55T). They must have selected 50T with that in mind.
What other modern, EFIS/FMS equipped jets are over 50T but less than 55T that they could be trying to include? I can't think of any. 717IGW maybe, but not sure.
What other modern, EFIS/FMS equipped jets are over 50T but less than 55T that they could be trying to include? I can't think of any. 717IGW maybe, but not sure.
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 329
Likes: 1
From: Europe
The sarcastic thing about the DEC recruitment is that they (silently) removed accelerated command for guys from within.
Unbelievable if you ask me.
I wonder how much collateral damage this will cause on the FO side.... After all, many guys would qualify straight for the left seat now.
Unbelievable if you ask me.
I wonder how much collateral damage this will cause on the FO side.... After all, many guys would qualify straight for the left seat now.
