Emirates going with DEC
Join Date: May 2007
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If Emirates had no experienced FOs then DECs would be justified but that is not the case.
They are only doing it because they can and because it is the cheapest option.
Funny thing is that even if they offered 20% less most of you would still be licking your chops and jumping at the bid to come over and screw 1000 plus FOs.
Naturally, six months later you would be bitching and moaning about your T&Cs.
YOU are the reason Aviation today pays less than it did 20 years ago.
You want to do the right thing, there is a job for you as FO at the bottom of the list because Emirates DOES NOT NEED your left seat experience, you just happen to come cheap.
Don’t go talking to me about integrity and professionalism. Even though more than qualified for a DEC with Emirates I NEVER have and would NEVER apply.
Someone mentioned earlier, why should aviation be different to any other industry.
Because it was. You started as FO, did your time, earned your colleagues‘ respect and got your promotion. The method minimised ass kissing and the back stabbing that exists in other industries but that is no more, every man for himself these days.
They are only doing it because they can and because it is the cheapest option.
Funny thing is that even if they offered 20% less most of you would still be licking your chops and jumping at the bid to come over and screw 1000 plus FOs.
Naturally, six months later you would be bitching and moaning about your T&Cs.
YOU are the reason Aviation today pays less than it did 20 years ago.
You want to do the right thing, there is a job for you as FO at the bottom of the list because Emirates DOES NOT NEED your left seat experience, you just happen to come cheap.
Don’t go talking to me about integrity and professionalism. Even though more than qualified for a DEC with Emirates I NEVER have and would NEVER apply.
Someone mentioned earlier, why should aviation be different to any other industry.
Because it was. You started as FO, did your time, earned your colleagues‘ respect and got your promotion. The method minimised ass kissing and the back stabbing that exists in other industries but that is no more, every man for himself these days.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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DEC
House is on fire.....wonder where this thread will be heading.
Guys wake up and smell the coffee this is the middle east and you get what u signed on the dotted line. Rest is a bonus take it or leave it.
This is not the wild wild west but money talks and bull.... Walks!
Guys wake up and smell the coffee this is the middle east and you get what u signed on the dotted line. Rest is a bonus take it or leave it.
This is not the wild wild west but money talks and bull.... Walks!
Join Date: Jul 2011
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I feel you guys on the RHS...sorry if this will affect your promotions, but to be honest, there's nothing much we can do. Most of us been here long enough to understand that the only constant thing in EK are changes. We all expected at some point that upgrade on the whale will happen, and so it will ,based on this FCI. But if you analyze carefully on how it was written...2500 hrs on the RHS 380 before a Command upgrade, and thats 4 to 5 yrs.to build. And by that same time, most of us on the Bus in particular,If not ALL, have already been transferred to "who knows where" 777 or the 380. Even the most senior FO on the 380 does not have a 2500hrs on type at present. And im saying this based on their current phase out plan. So, one can just imagine the number of upgrades coming in the next year or two.
Huge number of Upgrade interviews are still ongoing, but unfortunately the rates of failures and repeat interviews were quite big. And this affects movements for the rest of you, since the the repeats will be called again ahead of others ,due to their seniority. All EK F/Os are qualified to be Captains, and thats the reason they hired us in the first place...but, that seizes once we fail a PPC, ALC, Upgrade interview, etc etc.
So, what to do ? IMHO,do your stuff and study..And try your best to pass the first take. Because , this is one Reason you give to the Company to resource on DEC's.
to my colleagues on the RHS, i hope you'll all get your Upgrades. For now, let's enjoy life. its a waiting game....lets see
My2C
DC
Huge number of Upgrade interviews are still ongoing, but unfortunately the rates of failures and repeat interviews were quite big. And this affects movements for the rest of you, since the the repeats will be called again ahead of others ,due to their seniority. All EK F/Os are qualified to be Captains, and thats the reason they hired us in the first place...but, that seizes once we fail a PPC, ALC, Upgrade interview, etc etc.
So, what to do ? IMHO,do your stuff and study..And try your best to pass the first take. Because , this is one Reason you give to the Company to resource on DEC's.
to my colleagues on the RHS, i hope you'll all get your Upgrades. For now, let's enjoy life. its a waiting game....lets see
My2C
DC
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Why is Emirates wanting to hire DECs? Do they need bodies or just trying to save training cycles?
I think they have plenty of not only qualifed FOs but also suitable FOs under the new lower requirements.
This is just another screw job by Emirates and any new joiner should think very carefully about joining this circus. It is a screw job plain and simple.
I think they have plenty of not only qualifed FOs but also suitable FOs under the new lower requirements.
This is just another screw job by Emirates and any new joiner should think very carefully about joining this circus. It is a screw job plain and simple.
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and any new joiner should think very carefully about joining this circus.
Com on guys....looks like NG of pilots really.. really..get spoiled...
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Well its still not up on the main site...
From Emirates web site ...
Does Emirates intend to recruit direct entry Captains?
We currently have many First Officers who are ready to upgrade to Captain, and therefore it is not a priority for the immediate future.
From Emirates web site ...
Does Emirates intend to recruit direct entry Captains?
We currently have many First Officers who are ready to upgrade to Captain, and therefore it is not a priority for the immediate future.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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[QUOTE]"I hope the TREs stick together, look after their own and send a clear message by failing as many DECs as possible."/QUOTE]
Inciter - the snag with your rather juvenile wish is that unless staying until retirement, the TRE's will themselves leave EK one day and I doubt they will be applying for F/O jobs elsewhere. You yourself may leave EK one day as a Captain and again I doubt you will then still have the same principle against DEC's
Get over it...!
Inciter - the snag with your rather juvenile wish is that unless staying until retirement, the TRE's will themselves leave EK one day and I doubt they will be applying for F/O jobs elsewhere. You yourself may leave EK one day as a Captain and again I doubt you will then still have the same principle against DEC's
Get over it...!
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I hope you were being sarcastic here!!!
Do we have to do this again?
This Emirates captain here made $27000 net last month and that only includes the things which came to him in cash: salary, appointment pay, housing allowance, flight pay, ERP, and provident A contribution. No productivity pay or profit share figures in that amount.
It does not include those things which came to him in kind, such as life insurance, loss of license insurance, and school fees for the kids. All these would need to be replaced and paid for if this captain worked anywhere else. Do the math, but depending on where you might like to live outside EK you'll need several thousand dollars more to cover those.
This Emirates captain here made $27000 net last month and that only includes the things which came to him in cash: salary, appointment pay, housing allowance, flight pay, ERP, and provident A contribution. No productivity pay or profit share figures in that amount.
It does not include those things which came to him in kind, such as life insurance, loss of license insurance, and school fees for the kids. All these would need to be replaced and paid for if this captain worked anywhere else. Do the math, but depending on where you might like to live outside EK you'll need several thousand dollars more to cover those.
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Guys
Can't you see the reason for DEC? It is not to deliberately "screw" anyone. It is simple mathematics. If you only hire FOs you reduce the number of possible applicants by at least 50%.
They will continue to upgrade within as fast as they can but with the number of aircraft coming they must find more pilots to fill these seats.
Will they lose FO applicants? Hardly, it is still the fastest way to a wide body command and the applicants know this.
Can't you see the reason for DEC? It is not to deliberately "screw" anyone. It is simple mathematics. If you only hire FOs you reduce the number of possible applicants by at least 50%.
They will continue to upgrade within as fast as they can but with the number of aircraft coming they must find more pilots to fill these seats.
Will they lose FO applicants? Hardly, it is still the fastest way to a wide body command and the applicants know this.
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Most of the DEC positions around the world are at the national majors in Far East (eg KAL, CAL, EVA, SIA, CCA, CSN, HVN) where your contract as an expat is time limited until their own pilots are ready to take over and you will be sent home. Also in the recession your services will no longer be required. Or they are startups which need pilots of any qualifications to jump start their ops with as little investment as possible. Or they are airlines with high attrition rate so they need replacements fast.
EK is in neither category. Yes some of the pilots will leave EK to be DEC somewhere but they will sacrifice the permanent contract and stable airline seniority and benefits, however most of them are actually planning to stay longer...
It is a good thing that there are so many upgrade slots available in the future and hopefully there will be enough for everyone qualified but in this volatile economy and politics one upgrade training slot might be as big as a whole career.
Although a bit emotional Inciter sends a clear message to potential DEC joiners.
Work very hard and a bit more to prove that you are more qualified with your experience than your FO who is in the company for few years already and knows the airplane and the operations inside out, and is studying really hard to pass all the exams and checks planned in the OMD for his upgrade. Passing the initial screening is just a start.
EK is in neither category. Yes some of the pilots will leave EK to be DEC somewhere but they will sacrifice the permanent contract and stable airline seniority and benefits, however most of them are actually planning to stay longer...
It is a good thing that there are so many upgrade slots available in the future and hopefully there will be enough for everyone qualified but in this volatile economy and politics one upgrade training slot might be as big as a whole career.
Although a bit emotional Inciter sends a clear message to potential DEC joiners.
Work very hard and a bit more to prove that you are more qualified with your experience than your FO who is in the company for few years already and knows the airplane and the operations inside out, and is studying really hard to pass all the exams and checks planned in the OMD for his upgrade. Passing the initial screening is just a start.
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Requirements for the Position of Captain A330/B777
- A minimum of 7000 hours total flying time (only front seat time on turboprop and/or turbojet aircraft can be counted).
- A minimum of 3000 hours command time on multi-crew, multi-engine commercial jet aircraft with an MTOW of 50 tonnes or more.
Note: We do not accept simulator time for flying hours calculation.
- Must hold a valid ICAO ATPL with an unrestricted class one medical certificate
- English language fluency (written and verbal comprehension); must be at least equal to ICAO English level 5.
- Must have flown as an aircraft commander on a jet meeting the above mentioned criteria, within 12 months of joining
- Preference will be given to type rated Airbus A330/340, B777 or other relevant wide body commanders and Instructors/Examiners
- A minimum of 7000 hours total flying time (only front seat time on turboprop and/or turbojet aircraft can be counted).
- A minimum of 3000 hours command time on multi-crew, multi-engine commercial jet aircraft with an MTOW of 50 tonnes or more.
Note: We do not accept simulator time for flying hours calculation.
- Must hold a valid ICAO ATPL with an unrestricted class one medical certificate
- English language fluency (written and verbal comprehension); must be at least equal to ICAO English level 5.
- Must have flown as an aircraft commander on a jet meeting the above mentioned criteria, within 12 months of joining
- Preference will be given to type rated Airbus A330/340, B777 or other relevant wide body commanders and Instructors/Examiners
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This Emirates captain here made $27000 net last month and that only includes the things which came to him in cash: salary, appointment pay, housing allowance, flight pay, ERP, and provident A contribution. No productivity pay or profit share figures in that amount.
Is there a pay scale for the First Officers or is it what is published online every year with no yearly increases? That said what is the average and max pay one can expect as an FO for the first 3-5 years?
Last edited by falcon10; 22nd Feb 2012 at 16:45.
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The DEC situation IS interesting. In the US, DAL/AA/UAL/Alaska/Hawaiian/USAirways...none of them take DECs, unless you are hired as a management pilot.
cliff
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cliff
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