Emirates going with DEC
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Well cerbus I did say which airline I worked for. They are far from ****e by the way and they are not a domestic carrier either. I have been a skipper there for 5 years and been unfortunate enough to have 2 engine failures in the LHS, but I suppose to you that experience is not relevant. Good luck to you!
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I don't think there is much more skill flying international oceanic routes with ETOPS aircraft required than there is flying in the London TMA everyday for example.
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Not wanting to spoil any ambitions but the DEC policy is aimed at a specific type of Capt. The aim is to recruit TRI/TRE's to make life easier for the over stretched training dept. Recruitment already have individuals in mind and MM has his mates earmarked for the jobs. Doubt there will be too many line types taken on as it's risky and expensive. Plenty of FO fodder to do it more effeciently. If you work for Thomas Cook then apply, otherwise expect a rough ride at the assessment.
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Just listen to you guys make my stomach turn. Mine is better than yours, bla bla bla... No wonder our profession has reached new lows with attitudes like that.
We need pilots to expand. Left seat and right seat. Candidates are assessed. Some pass. Most don't. There is no union here. There is no preferential treatment here. The business comes first. Always. Accept this and life will be easier.
Drop the mud throwing. DECs are an extraordinary measure that from time to time is necessary to support our massive expansion. If you didnt know this you didnt do your home work.
If you are a narrow body captain working in a ATC proficient area you will find it a steep learning curve going where we go. As would I if I had to fill your shoes. Good luck and happy flying to all.
We need pilots to expand. Left seat and right seat. Candidates are assessed. Some pass. Most don't. There is no union here. There is no preferential treatment here. The business comes first. Always. Accept this and life will be easier.
Drop the mud throwing. DECs are an extraordinary measure that from time to time is necessary to support our massive expansion. If you didnt know this you didnt do your home work.
If you are a narrow body captain working in a ATC proficient area you will find it a steep learning curve going where we go. As would I if I had to fill your shoes. Good luck and happy flying to all.
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What a lot of hot air we pilots are able to produce. Never mind, we all have to have a hobby! On topic though, there are many well qualified and interested guys over at the Goat who'd like to swap sides, this would be ideal for EK but not so for QR who have there own recruitment problems. Is the poaching agreement in place?
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Oh Eric, that was not an arrogant response at all. If you knew me you would know that arrogance is certainly one attribute that escapes me. I was just pointing out that all types of flying have exposure to challenges and risk. The London TMA is a very challenging environment - you probably already knew that though..........
As for ATC proficiency try Marrakesh or Cairo. They are as bad as most.
As for ATC proficiency try Marrakesh or Cairo. They are as bad as most.
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London TMA...challenging, that's a joke right? The best controllers anywhere and they spoon feed you all the way. Any monkey who can operate an FCU/MCP can fly the London TMA. Want a challenge, try the Bombay FIR during monsoon or Damascus on a CAVOK day. London is for PPL's
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Want a challenge, try the Bombay FIR during monsoon or Damascus on a CAVOK day.
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Guys I don't disagree with you! I was merely pointing out that each operation has different challenges. Short runway operation, Innsbruck, Salzburg, ATC in remote places, Nice and a visual circling manoeuvre onto finals on 22R at 800 ft. It's all about being professional an having a level of competence.
There are many airfields in the world that are a threat to safe operation, there are different threats in short haul to long haul. That does not mean however that with a DEC coming into EK will not cope with the different threat and error management to one promoted from within.
I Am not here to knock anyone's nose out of joint, I'm just not prepared to allow unanswered a few rather misleading posts from hacked off guys in the RHS in EK. Whilst accepting that they have a grievance - their grievance should not be with the DECs!
As for not helping yourselves with the argument may I refer you to this comment
There are many airfields in the world that are a threat to safe operation, there are different threats in short haul to long haul. That does not mean however that with a DEC coming into EK will not cope with the different threat and error management to one promoted from within.
I Am not here to knock anyone's nose out of joint, I'm just not prepared to allow unanswered a few rather misleading posts from hacked off guys in the RHS in EK. Whilst accepting that they have a grievance - their grievance should not be with the DECs!
As for not helping yourselves with the argument may I refer you to this comment
London's for PPLs
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1. Wherever you come from, as a DEC it’s not to be underestimated. You most probably have to adapt to a new plane, new destinations and regions and most importantly a new company environment. On the latter there is colorful reading material in abundance on these pages! All at the same time can prove to be quite a handful.
Good luck!
2. As for the disgruntled FOs. You left your company for EK most probably due to career issues. Your buddies stayed and waited their turn there and later passed the upgrade. As they now might join as DECs, you denounce them. Those who qualify most probably were senior to you in the former company anyway, so where is the problem? They waited their turn while you took the short cut at EK. -> Sometimes working, sometimes not working …
Tough luck!
3. Concerning Goat Airlines, I guess most of their pilots had tried EK first, so there was a reason why they didn’t make the cut. Do you think they’ll make it now? That would be lowering the bar wouldn’t it, and EK keeps pretending they don’t.
Good luck again!
Good luck!
2. As for the disgruntled FOs. You left your company for EK most probably due to career issues. Your buddies stayed and waited their turn there and later passed the upgrade. As they now might join as DECs, you denounce them. Those who qualify most probably were senior to you in the former company anyway, so where is the problem? They waited their turn while you took the short cut at EK. -> Sometimes working, sometimes not working …
Tough luck!
3. Concerning Goat Airlines, I guess most of their pilots had tried EK first, so there was a reason why they didn’t make the cut. Do you think they’ll make it now? That would be lowering the bar wouldn’t it, and EK keeps pretending they don’t.
Good luck again!
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Isn't all this willy waving great ? I can see why flying isn't treated as a profession anymore...
At the end of the day different operations demand different skills.I have as much respect for the knackered ryanair chap trying to do an NPA into some half arsed airfield in France, after 4 sectors - as much as the long haul chap, doing one sector into some bad wx/bad ATC dump in India or whereever.
It's a form of protectionism.....our plane/destinations/operation (delete as applicable) is harder than yours......We all do it really.My 10p is chambery with a tailwind in 75..
At the end of the day anyone coming off a 73 or whatever will be bright enough to appreciate it's going to be hard work with a new (bigger) aircraft, new destinations etc. I would hope a combination of decent training and the experience requirement would see them through.However as has been mentioned I doubt anyone without significant command time ona widebody will get a look in.
At the end of the day different operations demand different skills.I have as much respect for the knackered ryanair chap trying to do an NPA into some half arsed airfield in France, after 4 sectors - as much as the long haul chap, doing one sector into some bad wx/bad ATC dump in India or whereever.
It's a form of protectionism.....our plane/destinations/operation (delete as applicable) is harder than yours......We all do it really.My 10p is chambery with a tailwind in 75..
At the end of the day anyone coming off a 73 or whatever will be bright enough to appreciate it's going to be hard work with a new (bigger) aircraft, new destinations etc. I would hope a combination of decent training and the experience requirement would see them through.However as has been mentioned I doubt anyone without significant command time ona widebody will get a look in.
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"I bet my dads car is faster than your dads car' ... Pretty much sums up this thread!! Good luck to any who apply & to those seeking their upgrade. am sure both sets will be just fine and do a good job.
"Not wanting to spoil any ambitions but the DEC policy is aimed at a specific type of Capt. The aim is to recruit TRI/TRE's to make life easier for the over stretched training dept. Recruitment already have individuals in mind and MM has his mates earmarked for the jobs. Doubt there will be too many line types taken on as it's risky and expensive. Plenty of FO fodder to do it more effeciently. If you work for Thomas Cook then apply, otherwise expect a rough ride at the assessment."
Vfe next, is that an assumption or have you heard this from the horses' mouth?
Are you just trying to put us narrowbody Capt's off from applying?
Do you think a 10,000 hour Capt with 6,500 hours command on 737NG and A320 does not stand a chance of DEC?
Vfe next, is that an assumption or have you heard this from the horses' mouth?
Are you just trying to put us narrowbody Capt's off from applying?
Do you think a 10,000 hour Capt with 6,500 hours command on 737NG and A320 does not stand a chance of DEC?
Preference will be given to type rated Airbus A330/340, B777 or other relevant wide body commanders and Instructors/Examiners
Not so much an assumption Bridgey, but more just reading what is written. Check page 8 for what the requirements are. (I understand that English may not be your first language and this line may have escaped your notice) There are several Thomas Cook fellas here already on contract that have said they would like a full time gig. They are good guys, typed/TREd already and already know the SOPs training environment etc. EK would be crazy not hire them. These guys already run the recruitment SIMs.
Your chances of being hired are, as vfenext has already suggested, dependent on how many they want and on who else applies. If your interested apply, you have nothing to loose.
The Don
Not so much an assumption Bridgey, but more just reading what is written. Check page 8 for what the requirements are. (I understand that English may not be your first language and this line may have escaped your notice) There are several Thomas Cook fellas here already on contract that have said they would like a full time gig. They are good guys, typed/TREd already and already know the SOPs training environment etc. EK would be crazy not hire them. These guys already run the recruitment SIMs.
Your chances of being hired are, as vfenext has already suggested, dependent on how many they want and on who else applies. If your interested apply, you have nothing to loose.
The Don