Why do pilots Join EK??
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Brooklyns Park
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si jet
Why dont you explain the statement you posted pertaining to you being given a reasonable explanation as to why EK treats its pilots like they do?You seem to have been given some great justification. I am awaiting for you to enlighten me as to the "Magna Carta" of EK management....
I completely understand your points about management changing the conditions and the Pilots flying 92 hours a month etc etc. All this was explained to us by the Pilots in an open Q & A session during the Selection process.
Why dont you explain the statement you posted pertaining to you being given a reasonable explanation as to why EK treats its pilots like they do?You seem to have been given some great justification. I am awaiting for you to enlighten me as to the "Magna Carta" of EK management....
I completely understand your points about management changing the conditions and the Pilots flying 92 hours a month etc etc. All this was explained to us by the Pilots in an open Q & A session during the Selection process.
Well Si Jet ask yourself this question.
I am considering leaving a command at EK to join a UK lowcost on a 70% contract.
I have no expectations at this company, apart from not being here.
Am I wrong? mis-guided ? or heaven forbid just experienced enough to know that EK is a sh*t job. NO rights. NO recourse, a worthless contract, working for the lowest form of management.
A company who shafts it employees when it is making record profits in one of the worst ever periods in commercial aviation.
But hey you are satisfied by some (non-binding) words of wisdom from recruitment. Well I pity you. You have enough available information to make a reasoned decision. When I joined it was all good news "streets are paved with gold". I know better now from bitter experience, but if you are willing to ignore the collective wisdom of many burned people then so be it. You have been warned.
Dont't come running to me with broken legs after you fall out if the tree.
D.Trotter "There are none so blind as them that won't listen"
I am considering leaving a command at EK to join a UK lowcost on a 70% contract.
I have no expectations at this company, apart from not being here.
Am I wrong? mis-guided ? or heaven forbid just experienced enough to know that EK is a sh*t job. NO rights. NO recourse, a worthless contract, working for the lowest form of management.
A company who shafts it employees when it is making record profits in one of the worst ever periods in commercial aviation.
But hey you are satisfied by some (non-binding) words of wisdom from recruitment. Well I pity you. You have enough available information to make a reasoned decision. When I joined it was all good news "streets are paved with gold". I know better now from bitter experience, but if you are willing to ignore the collective wisdom of many burned people then so be it. You have been warned.
Dont't come running to me with broken legs after you fall out if the tree.
D.Trotter "There are none so blind as them that won't listen"
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Europe
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btw si jet now that we're talking. Next time you go to one of the blinky EK road shows, ask them about the fellow EK aviators who received personal threats/intimidation coz of calling fatigued or raising concerns about fatigue levels on the T7 and 330 fleet?
The underlining thing is that for most people this used to be a great job, if not the greatest. Honestly it really was a few years back. Since 2 years however it has turned into a small nightmare for most of us. And yes indeed, most guys I know are looking elsewhere....
You really sound like one of our managers btw: don't like it f^k off.... DXB and EK will be the perfect place for people with an attitude like yours....Hurry up....
The underlining thing is that for most people this used to be a great job, if not the greatest. Honestly it really was a few years back. Since 2 years however it has turned into a small nightmare for most of us. And yes indeed, most guys I know are looking elsewhere....
You really sound like one of our managers btw: don't like it f^k off.... DXB and EK will be the perfect place for people with an attitude like yours....Hurry up....
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: UK
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EFC, The Pilots were saying they were flying 92 hours a month without the overtime payment. They were not happy about it! Thats the point they made. Other things that are not good about the company were also discussed. They told us ask any questions that were of concern to us and they answered it honestly. That's all i was saying...they didn't deny anything that was true and cleared up things that were not true.
I am not defending F*cking Emirates. I am just telling what they said. End of! Thanks for all the warnings gents...I really appreciate it! But please stop with all this "you'll regret it" and "I warned you" Bollocks. Good luck with your futures and I take heed of your advice. Thanks! I wish I'd never mentioned anything! If I don't like I'll leave and you can all tell me what a arrogant Tw*t I am!
Everything on the forum becomes so personal. Anyway again, I wish you every success with you careers whether turning down a command at EK or working a 70 % contract with a UK lo-co...Good Luck! You roll the dice and take your chances!
I am not defending F*cking Emirates. I am just telling what they said. End of! Thanks for all the warnings gents...I really appreciate it! But please stop with all this "you'll regret it" and "I warned you" Bollocks. Good luck with your futures and I take heed of your advice. Thanks! I wish I'd never mentioned anything! If I don't like I'll leave and you can all tell me what a arrogant Tw*t I am!
Everything on the forum becomes so personal. Anyway again, I wish you every success with you careers whether turning down a command at EK or working a 70 % contract with a UK lo-co...Good Luck! You roll the dice and take your chances!
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Get over it. There were little complaints when guys were earning 15 hours of overtime. Quite happy to do the hours then for some strange reason. Funny how fatigue vanishes when the dirhams hit the bank.
5 star
What utter crap. The only people who get bollocked for fatigue issues are those that take the piss with sickness. Just look at the same names crop up month after month, day here, 2 days there. Locals are the worst. Those that commute and can't get their swops after 6 repeated attempts on yahoo groups are next. Yes, if you don't like it, piss off.
Harry
5 star
What utter crap. The only people who get bollocked for fatigue issues are those that take the piss with sickness. Just look at the same names crop up month after month, day here, 2 days there. Locals are the worst. Those that commute and can't get their swops after 6 repeated attempts on yahoo groups are next. Yes, if you don't like it, piss off.
Harry
Join Date: Apr 1999
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Harry, this is the crap that Alan S is stating however there is a massive difference doing a little overtime occassionaly and being rostered 92 + hours month after month after month, while conducting operations that take you over massive time zone changes (which we didn't use to do as much).
Add to this factorisation on ULR flights then yes fatigue is a huge issue in this company.
I can count the number of times I did overtime each year, before their new policy, on the fingers of one hand.
Add to this, that when you have leave that is less than a total month, the company schedules you for almost a full month in what remains, contrary to what they promised when the nominal credit for leave was removed.
Add to this factorisation on ULR flights then yes fatigue is a huge issue in this company.
I can count the number of times I did overtime each year, before their new policy, on the fingers of one hand.
Add to this, that when you have leave that is less than a total month, the company schedules you for almost a full month in what remains, contrary to what they promised when the nominal credit for leave was removed.
Join Date: Sep 2009
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solution re. income for Pilots....
We also have seen what happens to families moved half a world away from home and find they don't like Dubai, the stress when the guys think EK is great but the wives hate being away from family and friends, living in the company compound with all the gossip and being treated like a second class citizen ie no bank account.
Just imagine if some of the wives actually contribute to the household and not sit around having their nails done while the maid looks after the chilrden and cleans the house.....
Maybe if they work and earn their share, there will be no time for the gossip in the compound and they can have their own bank accounts
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Kiwi & Brokenenglish
Fair comment and I do actually agree with both your points.
I acknowledge that the Company has moved the goalposts and many VP's and above have benefiited off the backs of the front line staff. Pilots, as well as many other departments including cabin crew and engineering have faced large increases in productivity. This hasn't been to ensure the survival of Emirates, it was to ensure our bosses got the big bonus.
I spent 20 minutes recently, listening to a neighbour whinging about life in EK and all the crap flights he gets. It was depressing. However,3 years ago he couldn't wait to tell us all how much o/time he was making. He never once referred to the work load. It was literally an extra 8-10,000 dhs in overtime alone some months. As an F/O.
I guess that was the catalyst for my rant last night......and half(ish) bottle of wine.
Harry
Fair comment and I do actually agree with both your points.
I acknowledge that the Company has moved the goalposts and many VP's and above have benefiited off the backs of the front line staff. Pilots, as well as many other departments including cabin crew and engineering have faced large increases in productivity. This hasn't been to ensure the survival of Emirates, it was to ensure our bosses got the big bonus.
I spent 20 minutes recently, listening to a neighbour whinging about life in EK and all the crap flights he gets. It was depressing. However,3 years ago he couldn't wait to tell us all how much o/time he was making. He never once referred to the work load. It was literally an extra 8-10,000 dhs in overtime alone some months. As an F/O.
I guess that was the catalyst for my rant last night......and half(ish) bottle of wine.
Harry
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Well a few days ago I was having a convo would a good friend of mine whos EK 777 Capt.
He's worked well over 100hrs in Aug, and to quote him "I was going to call sick for a couple of days, then I realised how much overtime money I would get! So i was like, yeah use me as much as you want!"
So just to add fuel to the fire there's definitely an element of remuneration making 'problems' go away.
He's worked well over 100hrs in Aug, and to quote him "I was going to call sick for a couple of days, then I realised how much overtime money I would get! So i was like, yeah use me as much as you want!"
So just to add fuel to the fire there's definitely an element of remuneration making 'problems' go away.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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NO rights. NO recourse, a worthless contract, working for the lowest form of management.
A company who shafts it employees when it is making record profits in one of the worst ever periods in commercial aviation.
A company who shafts it employees when it is making record profits in one of the worst ever periods in commercial aviation.
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Post anything else- be it positive, neutral or even not sufficiently hysterically negative (i.e balanced and factual) and you are a small c0ck, pro-company, management spy with a hidden agenda.
I'd just like to say that I find your personal admission to be very brave. Such honesty is refreshing.
Now if only A380-800 could similarly escape his closet of denial, he'd probably sleep better than he has in years!
???
Join Date: Oct 2007
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If you don't follow the SOP's what do you expect the airline to do? They have a set of rules for your safety and everyones else's. We all make mistakes and EK knows that; but if guys are persistant offenders or trouble causers why keep hold of them? Do you think O'leary is any different. Go and fly for Ryanair then if you think it's so great there. How about Virgin? Just look forward to 15 years in the right hand with a few rounds of redundancies thrown in for good measure. Take you pick...
I try to hold a balanced view on here and I will gladly point out to prospective joiners and new joiners both the good and the bad points (there are many of both).
However, don't be so NAIVE with regards to job security. My one gripe out here (once you've dimissed the frustrating but inevitable T&C changes) is the lack of support for pilots.
You say we all make mistakes and EK knows that? Yes they do, but they don't care for it. It's easier to sack you - that way for Management there is someone to blame other than themselves. This is a brand new civilisation only 30 or so years old that still has a middle-ages mentality regarding justice, science and indeed flight safety... this is NOT a dig at the UAE it's just a fact of life.
When an incident happens someone important wants a response, someone to punish. So he goes to the person below him and slaps him round a bit; that person then goes looking for the lowest common denominator to slap around a bit - and that my friend is you and I.
Forget fair investigations, forget independent analysis - it's a case of "that guy could have made me look silly, off with his head"... I'm sorry if that doesn't fit in with your comfy UK sensibilty but you should learn VERY quickly that this is how it works out here. And not just in your job either.
I can't speak for the Melbourne crew, yes they broke SOP's. Maybe there's more to it than that - why did they nreak them. Was it negligence? Was it the Captain, was it the First Officer, was it Fatigue?
I can however speak for the guys in Manchester, Accra et al who simply made a human error... as you said:
We all make mistakes
I'm still waiting for some clear information from the Company regarding exactly what happened and how we're all supposed to avoid making the same mistakes in the future. That is traditionally how flight safety progresses - unfortunately we have an open-minded, excellent and supportive flight safety team at EK who are not given any freedom to do their jobs in any capacity whatsoever. I sometimes wonder if they are just there to satisfy the CAA requirements just to employ someone with said title. Ask the the former top guy in the Safety Dept why he left...
=====
I am very sorry that your current employment has been such a miserable one but please please please don't be naive and try to come here with an open mind. This is NOT the UK. It has it's good and it's bad points but don't be taken in by the EK sales schpiel as you'll be so disappointed if you do... marketing is what they're good at - it's the reason all our planes are full even though we are neither the best nor the cheapest airline!
Good luck with your move and we look forward to working with you. Dubai can be a fascinating place to spend a few years, especially if you have young kids, and the weather here is a dream for those migrating from Northern Europe.
See you soon.
Last edited by Mr Good Cat; 11th Sep 2010 at 07:03.
