Why do pilots Join EK??
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Why do pilots Join EK??
Hi there... I have been reading quite a lot on the EK thread and there is a little of everything there in regards to Pro's and Con's @ EK ... so I was just wondering...if life there for some is not that great, or maybe quite expensive... the lines are not that nice either... etc, etc..
Then why do pilots choose to Join EK ... ?? There has to be something good about it..
or not??
Then why do pilots choose to Join EK ... ?? There has to be something good about it..
or not??
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99% of pilots that join EK, go to work, do their job, go home, live a life and get on with it. 1% of pilots that join EK Go to work, cant wait to get home to post their miserable life stories on Pprune.....Unfortunately for you, the 98% of the 99% could not be bothered to post here. I have no doubt that I shall be well and truly flogged for not berating the job at EK, but truth be told, it's not that bad...
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It's all relative...
Might I venture a few guesses:
Photos: Airbus A380-861 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
and
Photos: Airbus A380-861 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
and
Photos: Boeing 777-36N/ER Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
It's all RELATIVE - you need to keep that in mind. EK understands this concept - it's called LABOR ARBITRAGE. A lot of pilots worldwide fly less-capable aircraft for far less money than what you would get at EK. The EK "package" with housing is considered great by some standards - regardless of what you think. Their situations are great for their home countries but not good when compared to other flying opportunities. Plus, many of those pilots might be bored with limited flying. It's a big deal for some people, for example, flying an A319 in Latin America for squat money which can qualify you to eventually fly an A380 someday for EK in the ME - some people would consider that a big improvement - regardless of the terrible rosters and haphazzard decision making by management. It's still a better situation for them relative to their original situation. How many Indian pilots would kill for an EK job? Right or wrong, everything is relative compared to their personal situations. What you might think is unacceptable could be perfectly acceptable (and maybe preferrable) to someone else from a worse situation.
I do think shiney-jet syndrome is alive and well. Everyone wants to fly the latest and greatest - those who don't are simply lying or delusional. If you want a desk job, go get one. If you really want to fly DC3s, quit EK and go to Africa and stop whining. Clearly, the rosters and the pay need to improve big-time at EK in order to keep pilot attrition levels lower - but who knows if that will ever happen with EK's management... It might not be what we want it to be, but it is reality...
Photos: Airbus A380-861 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
and
Photos: Airbus A380-861 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
and
Photos: Boeing 777-36N/ER Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net
It's all RELATIVE - you need to keep that in mind. EK understands this concept - it's called LABOR ARBITRAGE. A lot of pilots worldwide fly less-capable aircraft for far less money than what you would get at EK. The EK "package" with housing is considered great by some standards - regardless of what you think. Their situations are great for their home countries but not good when compared to other flying opportunities. Plus, many of those pilots might be bored with limited flying. It's a big deal for some people, for example, flying an A319 in Latin America for squat money which can qualify you to eventually fly an A380 someday for EK in the ME - some people would consider that a big improvement - regardless of the terrible rosters and haphazzard decision making by management. It's still a better situation for them relative to their original situation. How many Indian pilots would kill for an EK job? Right or wrong, everything is relative compared to their personal situations. What you might think is unacceptable could be perfectly acceptable (and maybe preferrable) to someone else from a worse situation.
I do think shiney-jet syndrome is alive and well. Everyone wants to fly the latest and greatest - those who don't are simply lying or delusional. If you want a desk job, go get one. If you really want to fly DC3s, quit EK and go to Africa and stop whining. Clearly, the rosters and the pay need to improve big-time at EK in order to keep pilot attrition levels lower - but who knows if that will ever happen with EK's management... It might not be what we want it to be, but it is reality...
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For what it's worth, the vast majority of the people recently hired were either furloughed/unemployed or were about to be laid off.
An EK paycheck beats no paycheck no matter how you look at it.
An EK paycheck beats no paycheck no matter how you look at it.
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And by the way, Mexicana unfortunately declared bankruptcy a few days ago (perhaps on the way to liquidation) - plenty of Airbus A318/19/20 pilots there who would prefer EK to much lower-paying Mexican alternatives...
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Well... just what I thought 
!! It's not as bad as some people here like to put it.
It's just like everywhere else ... I haven't been flying for a long time but long enough to know that regardless of your job, paycheck, a/c type, people will always complain and will always want something different ....
I currently fly the A320
, and I know there is a lot of people out there that would give anything to be in my seat ... regardless of the paycheck or perhaps not, but one thing is for sure .. people will always have something to complain about .. even if flying for the best and biggest airline in the world!! 
Fly safe..!!
Iver: those pics are killing me!!
!! It's not as bad as some people here like to put it. It's just like everywhere else ... I haven't been flying for a long time but long enough to know that regardless of your job, paycheck, a/c type, people will always complain and will always want something different ....
I currently fly the A320
, and I know there is a lot of people out there that would give anything to be in my seat ... regardless of the paycheck or perhaps not, but one thing is for sure .. people will always have something to complain about .. even if flying for the best and biggest airline in the world!! Fly safe..!!
Iver: those pics are killing me!!
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RjAgCr,
No doubt shiney-jet syndrome is alive and well. Who wouldn't want a crack at a 777 or A380? Especially if you were flying less-capable aircraft. With your A320 background, you probably would get placed on the Airbus fleet and could fly the A380 as an FO within 3-4 years of starting. That A380 seat in the picture could be yours.
That said, my mates at EK agree that pay and rostering need to be improved if attrition rates are to be reduced. Just read the other EK posts - long-haul flying can be absolutely exhausting and EK rostering is not good. Seems like many pilots are leaving as home-country airlines start to initiate more hiring. If EK were to positively address some key QOL issues, attrition levels might decline and more pilots would consider EK a career airline. Based on what I have read, not sure that will ever happen... Again, it's all relative - one person's heaven could be another person's hell.
No doubt shiney-jet syndrome is alive and well. Who wouldn't want a crack at a 777 or A380? Especially if you were flying less-capable aircraft. With your A320 background, you probably would get placed on the Airbus fleet and could fly the A380 as an FO within 3-4 years of starting. That A380 seat in the picture could be yours.
That said, my mates at EK agree that pay and rostering need to be improved if attrition rates are to be reduced. Just read the other EK posts - long-haul flying can be absolutely exhausting and EK rostering is not good. Seems like many pilots are leaving as home-country airlines start to initiate more hiring. If EK were to positively address some key QOL issues, attrition levels might decline and more pilots would consider EK a career airline. Based on what I have read, not sure that will ever happen... Again, it's all relative - one person's heaven could be another person's hell.
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Pilots when offered a job at EK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE6PNps5N9I
Same pilots after a year, access to pprune, pissed off wife and an axe to grind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCxT_zarEMI
Do the shiny new jets have a place to hang the tiara or is a dummy sterilizer the other option? Be glad you have a good paying job in a growing airline.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE6PNps5N9I
Same pilots after a year, access to pprune, pissed off wife and an axe to grind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCxT_zarEMI
Do the shiny new jets have a place to hang the tiara or is a dummy sterilizer the other option? Be glad you have a good paying job in a growing airline.
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Flying shiney-jets yeah!! who wouldn't like that... I guess I can put out with that syndrome..no problem 
, but... can someone explain what you mean by "pay and rostering need to be improved"?
yeah!! who wouldn't like that... I guess I can put out with that syndrome..no problem , but... can someone explain what you mean by "pay and rostering need to be improved"?
short flights long nights
In response to the last post...Give me strength...does not anyone read this site
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If I may reply to the desire for pay and rostering to improve:-
Pay: there was no payrise in 2009 (understandable) and the overtime threshold was increased to a level that ensured that it would very rarely be paid. There was a payrise in 2010, well below inflation rate (real, not the govenment published one) as well as there being no "notch increase", so basically everyone's salaries have stood still for two years, and in real terms we are worse off. Combine that with the Education Support Allowance not being increased last year, and the very real possiblity of that happening again this year as well as the implementation of a cap on the previously (contractually) free utilities, and it is fairly obvious that the management have used the economic crisis to trim back the flight crew package to what many now believe to be below the level required for a Middle East ex-pat level.
Rostering: Along with the increase in the point at which overtime kicks in, there has been insufficient recruitment over the last year to cope with the number of planes arriving and new routes opening up. Just about everyone you fly with states in the briefing that they are tired, and we have to watch each other. Captains seem to be rostered 94-98 hours per month, F/Os a bit easier at 82-88 hours. Combine that with "factoring" which does not count time in the bunk as flight time and you can fairly easily log well over your 100 hour limit that your home country licence (the basis for your UAE validation) requires. Add to this little mix a rostering system that is incapable of "understanding" that eastbound flights (+5 hours to local time) followed by a ULR westbound to LAX or SFO are not only tiring, but that combined with as much back of the clock flying that is done is fatiguing. The company has a Fatigue Management programme, I will leave others to share their opinions of it's effectiveness.
I hope clears up some of the issues around pay and rostering.
See you on the line
Pay: there was no payrise in 2009 (understandable) and the overtime threshold was increased to a level that ensured that it would very rarely be paid. There was a payrise in 2010, well below inflation rate (real, not the govenment published one) as well as there being no "notch increase", so basically everyone's salaries have stood still for two years, and in real terms we are worse off. Combine that with the Education Support Allowance not being increased last year, and the very real possiblity of that happening again this year as well as the implementation of a cap on the previously (contractually) free utilities, and it is fairly obvious that the management have used the economic crisis to trim back the flight crew package to what many now believe to be below the level required for a Middle East ex-pat level.
Rostering: Along with the increase in the point at which overtime kicks in, there has been insufficient recruitment over the last year to cope with the number of planes arriving and new routes opening up. Just about everyone you fly with states in the briefing that they are tired, and we have to watch each other. Captains seem to be rostered 94-98 hours per month, F/Os a bit easier at 82-88 hours. Combine that with "factoring" which does not count time in the bunk as flight time and you can fairly easily log well over your 100 hour limit that your home country licence (the basis for your UAE validation) requires. Add to this little mix a rostering system that is incapable of "understanding" that eastbound flights (+5 hours to local time) followed by a ULR westbound to LAX or SFO are not only tiring, but that combined with as much back of the clock flying that is done is fatiguing. The company has a Fatigue Management programme, I will leave others to share their opinions of it's effectiveness.
I hope clears up some of the issues around pay and rostering.
See you on the line
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Thanks to skyvan and others for taking the time to post. There are those of us on the fence on this 'opportunity', and recruiting is not where you find the answers. Very little is put into print as far as 'company policy'. Thanks, Fred
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Very little is put into print as far as 'company policy'
All of these documents are are designed to be fluid and the company uses them to full advantage with multiple changes and amendments every year. They are also not always easily assessable unless you know where to find them and as such contain a minefield for average Joe as it is normally an obscure reference buried in one of these documents that will be used to beat you over the head with should you transgress.
Fredsmith and RJAgCR hats off to you for doing some in depth research and not swallowing the recruitment blurb wholesale. One of secrets to Emirates' sauces is PR and marketing and the roadshows are a product of that. They will sell you a wonderfully gift-wrapped package just make sure you look in all corners of the box before accepting it. Pprune should not be your only source of research but reading the EK threads does give some perspective.
Like many here I am not saying don't come to EK. Just do so with yours eyes wide open.
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I noticed in the 777 picture (link above) that there is a tissue box on the FOs side window, is this to wipe the tears away when they see the 380 and wish they had gone for Airbus!! sorry boeing guys!
Just to prevoke more comments!!
Of course many of you are right about the thread question, Most want to get onto wide body sooner than later!
sorry boeing guys!Just to prevoke more comments!!
Of course many of you are right about the thread question, Most want to get onto wide body sooner than later!
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Oh please, enough of the "mine is the bigger than yours" nonsense.
A380 pilots: Your license is no better than mine, you're on the A380 because of timing and nothing else, so stop telling the cabin crew how your max landing weight is higher than the B777's max take off weight ...etc. Its getting a tad petty.
A380 pilots: Your license is no better than mine, you're on the A380 because of timing and nothing else, so stop telling the cabin crew how your max landing weight is higher than the B777's max take off weight ...etc. Its getting a tad petty.