Why do pilots Join EK??
380,
Problem is you've missed the essential truth about what the Mid East forum has become.
It doesn't matter what you post, as long as it is negative and whinging, it must not be challenged or corrected.
Post anything else- be it positive, neutral or even not sufficiently hysterically negative (i.e balanced and factual) and you are a small c0ck, pro-company, management spy with a hidden agenda.
Pity, proon used to be a useful source of information.
Problem is you've missed the essential truth about what the Mid East forum has become.
It doesn't matter what you post, as long as it is negative and whinging, it must not be challenged or corrected.
Post anything else- be it positive, neutral or even not sufficiently hysterically negative (i.e balanced and factual) and you are a small c0ck, pro-company, management spy with a hidden agenda.
Pity, proon used to be a useful source of information.
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Pilots need to know what EK is all about BEFORE they join. As we all know after we join it is too late.
The pay is middle of the road as has been said before. What one needs to look into is how expensive Dubai is. £50 for very slow internet a month, food that is 30% more than in the UK and petrol that is getting to be on par with England.
What has not been stressed is how bad EK mangement treats everyone. It lies constantly and does not give a damm. It does not honour its contracts and has no intention of doing so if it does not suit them. It sacks pilots for little or no reason, (Let's not bring up YMML.) from everything for taking a picture in front of a broken airplane to bringing a pillow to your girlfriend in economy. They have seemed to back off a little because they know they are having trouble getting pilots and word gets out. Yes, thank God for pprune.
If you do come to the sand understand it is very tough to get out of Dubai with all of the bonds they put on you not to mention the money it costs you to move you and your family to the middle east. Don't come for a lark. You will have to be here for about 5-6 years to make it worth your while. Then it will be time to upgrade (if you're lucky) and you will want to stick around longer all the time probably mssing home.
The pilots that come from the bottom feeders have a different story.
The pay is middle of the road as has been said before. What one needs to look into is how expensive Dubai is. £50 for very slow internet a month, food that is 30% more than in the UK and petrol that is getting to be on par with England.
What has not been stressed is how bad EK mangement treats everyone. It lies constantly and does not give a damm. It does not honour its contracts and has no intention of doing so if it does not suit them. It sacks pilots for little or no reason, (Let's not bring up YMML.) from everything for taking a picture in front of a broken airplane to bringing a pillow to your girlfriend in economy. They have seemed to back off a little because they know they are having trouble getting pilots and word gets out. Yes, thank God for pprune.
If you do come to the sand understand it is very tough to get out of Dubai with all of the bonds they put on you not to mention the money it costs you to move you and your family to the middle east. Don't come for a lark. You will have to be here for about 5-6 years to make it worth your while. Then it will be time to upgrade (if you're lucky) and you will want to stick around longer all the time probably mssing home.
The pilots that come from the bottom feeders have a different story.
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and petrol that is getting to be on par with England.
my rough calculation puts it at about 25p per litre. Is that what they pay in the UK now?? Maybe 30 years ago!
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I am sure glad that I did not join Emirates a couple of years back. I was hired but did not sign up and it was the best decision of my life seeing all of what Emirates has done to its pilots. The pilots at Emirates must be incredibly frustrated at what has transpired to them.
Good luck to you and for those of you considering EK, buyer beware. I don't what to see you complain in 6-8 months on pprune.
Good luck to you and for those of you considering EK, buyer beware. I don't what to see you complain in 6-8 months on pprune.
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Take it from a guy who left the UK to join Emirates. Don't do it.
Emirates changes the goal posts all the time and never in your benefit. They shaft you 6-7 times a year in various capacities.
Emirates changes the goal posts all the time and never in your benefit. They shaft you 6-7 times a year in various capacities.
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Originally Posted by lhr rain
petrol that is getting to be on par with England.
Originally Posted by lhr rain
It sacks pilots for little or no reason, (Let's not bring up YMML.)
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LR,
thanks for your points and all the other guys who currently fly for EK. I completely understand your points about management changing the conditions and the Pilots flying 92 hours a month etc etc. All this was explained to us by the Pilots in an open Q & A session during the Selection process. EK and Dubai are far from perfect and I am not saying they are. Aviation has changed so much in the last decade, that it has become unrecognisable.
I work for a company were there is no job security, no expansion plans, no career progression, and no pay rise for 4 years, and no tea or coffee etc etc. The aircraft have got tens of thousands of hours on them and are rarely serviceable. Morale is rock bottom and people are leaving in their droves.
So as I have said, make the comparison with my company! The pay after tax...I'll say that again 'After Tax' is £2800 per month for a SFO flying a jet, and I've got all my bills to pay and mortgage etc to pay out of that. My roster is nearly always changed whether I like it or not. I can't plan anything and therefore my family suffers. My T & C's have been changed without my say so, and we are represented by a union.
So whats the alternative? Stay here in the UK and wait for another recession and another phone call at 10 pm to tell me I've escaped the latest round of job cuts. When was the last time EK laid off their Pilots? What kind of bonus are you expecting this year...16 weeks pay I've heard? on top of your £5k per month take home plus your utility bills paid for, or near as damn it, 90% of the school fees, 4 Bedroom villa, and living costs comparable with the UK. 92 hours a month is bloody hard work. I can't disagree with you. But what kind of hotels do you stay in when on a night stop? At least EK give a you a good hotel not like my place where you are fighting to have a free tea bag. You wake up in the morning with job security. That for me is King! Not the shiny 777/340 or whatever. Security!!
If you don't follow the SOP's what do you expect the airline to do? They have a set of rules for your safety and everyones else's. We all make mistakes and EK knows that; but if guys are persistant offenders or trouble causers why keep hold of them? Do you think O'leary is any different. Go and fly for Ryanair then if you think it's so great there. How about Virgin? Just look forward to 15 years in the right hand with a few rounds of redundancies thrown in for good measure. Take you pick...
I don't work there yet! But wake up for christ sakes! Take a very hard look around any where else in the world and see how wonderful it is elsewhere. It isn't...simple! I am firm believer it's what you make of it or anything for that matter. It's like anything though! We all become complacent and take things for granted, but if BA or Easy jet where so much better why are those guys applying aswell. I've choosen BA and Easy because they are the big hitters in their relevent fields.
My original point was this; if it is so bad at EK, then leave. Thats it! They don't want unhappy pilots and you don't want to work for an airline that mistreats its pilots. Everyone happy!
One question though...why is the attrition rate at EK only 2%.
thanks for your points and all the other guys who currently fly for EK. I completely understand your points about management changing the conditions and the Pilots flying 92 hours a month etc etc. All this was explained to us by the Pilots in an open Q & A session during the Selection process. EK and Dubai are far from perfect and I am not saying they are. Aviation has changed so much in the last decade, that it has become unrecognisable.
I work for a company were there is no job security, no expansion plans, no career progression, and no pay rise for 4 years, and no tea or coffee etc etc. The aircraft have got tens of thousands of hours on them and are rarely serviceable. Morale is rock bottom and people are leaving in their droves.
So as I have said, make the comparison with my company! The pay after tax...I'll say that again 'After Tax' is £2800 per month for a SFO flying a jet, and I've got all my bills to pay and mortgage etc to pay out of that. My roster is nearly always changed whether I like it or not. I can't plan anything and therefore my family suffers. My T & C's have been changed without my say so, and we are represented by a union.
So whats the alternative? Stay here in the UK and wait for another recession and another phone call at 10 pm to tell me I've escaped the latest round of job cuts. When was the last time EK laid off their Pilots? What kind of bonus are you expecting this year...16 weeks pay I've heard? on top of your £5k per month take home plus your utility bills paid for, or near as damn it, 90% of the school fees, 4 Bedroom villa, and living costs comparable with the UK. 92 hours a month is bloody hard work. I can't disagree with you. But what kind of hotels do you stay in when on a night stop? At least EK give a you a good hotel not like my place where you are fighting to have a free tea bag. You wake up in the morning with job security. That for me is King! Not the shiny 777/340 or whatever. Security!!
If you don't follow the SOP's what do you expect the airline to do? They have a set of rules for your safety and everyones else's. We all make mistakes and EK knows that; but if guys are persistant offenders or trouble causers why keep hold of them? Do you think O'leary is any different. Go and fly for Ryanair then if you think it's so great there. How about Virgin? Just look forward to 15 years in the right hand with a few rounds of redundancies thrown in for good measure. Take you pick...
I don't work there yet! But wake up for christ sakes! Take a very hard look around any where else in the world and see how wonderful it is elsewhere. It isn't...simple! I am firm believer it's what you make of it or anything for that matter. It's like anything though! We all become complacent and take things for granted, but if BA or Easy jet where so much better why are those guys applying aswell. I've choosen BA and Easy because they are the big hitters in their relevent fields.
My original point was this; if it is so bad at EK, then leave. Thats it! They don't want unhappy pilots and you don't want to work for an airline that mistreats its pilots. Everyone happy!
One question though...why is the attrition rate at EK only 2%.
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As I mentioned earlier, your situation is always "relative." You may currently live in India with very low pay and no advancement - EK then looks like a goldmine no matter what the crusty old EK pilots say... It all depends on your current situation and perspective.
Also keep in mind that getting a 777 or A330/340 type rating and operating experience certainly don't hurt because those are marketable assets worldwide.
Also keep in mind that getting a 777 or A330/340 type rating and operating experience certainly don't hurt because those are marketable assets worldwide.
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I agree with si_jet and Iver 100% .... it all depends on your situation before joining EK ...
We don't know what made everyone here wanting to join EK but it for sure was something good, or why you did it at all?... what you think or how you feel now about EK is a different story ... but overall I belive it is a good package...of course, depending on your situation..is all RELATIVE
Research has to be done, specially before making such an important decision ... this is why I posted this thread and I thank you all for your inputs on the subject...its really helpfull!
We don't know what made everyone here wanting to join EK but it for sure was something good, or why you did it at all?... what you think or how you feel now about EK is a different story ... but overall I belive it is a good package...of course, depending on your situation..is all RELATIVE
Research has to be done, specially before making such an important decision ... this is why I posted this thread and I thank you all for your inputs on the subject...its really helpfull!
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It sort of comes down to a difficult choice.
Do you want to marry and live with the ugly but extremely rich bitch who guarantees you a nice income and easy life. It will however be her choice eternally as to if, how and when you have to sleep with her and she can throw you out any time she wants with absolutely no recourse for you.
On the other hand you can marry the pretty and decent girl with no money, you might struggle to pay your bills, but she enables you a more or less happy life, AND you retain your freedom of choice.
The metaphor applies not to the companies, but to the environement, the culture, the civilisation.
Take a deep breath and make an informed choice. What we want to get through to you, is that once you are here, it is very expensive and difficult to get out again. Especially with a family.
Do you want to marry and live with the ugly but extremely rich bitch who guarantees you a nice income and easy life. It will however be her choice eternally as to if, how and when you have to sleep with her and she can throw you out any time she wants with absolutely no recourse for you.
On the other hand you can marry the pretty and decent girl with no money, you might struggle to pay your bills, but she enables you a more or less happy life, AND you retain your freedom of choice.
The metaphor applies not to the companies, but to the environement, the culture, the civilisation.
Take a deep breath and make an informed choice. What we want to get through to you, is that once you are here, it is very expensive and difficult to get out again. Especially with a family.
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Pool -
When you say " it is very expensive and difficult to get out again. Especially with a family." you mean "get out) as to living there (restaurants, malls, movies, bars/pubs, etc)? or get out as to getting out of EK and back home? are there any bonds with EK?
Can anyone here that flies the A330 or A340 give me an example of a given month flight line? like...how many days off (are the days consecutives? think not..) how many hours a month? ... you know, that little paper in which you actually plan you life for the next month...
When you say " it is very expensive and difficult to get out again. Especially with a family." you mean "get out) as to living there (restaurants, malls, movies, bars/pubs, etc)? or get out as to getting out of EK and back home? are there any bonds with EK?
Can anyone here that flies the A330 or A340 give me an example of a given month flight line? like...how many days off (are the days consecutives? think not..) how many hours a month? ... you know, that little paper in which you actually plan you life for the next month...
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Mexicana pilots were used to a pretty sweet deal. Pre-bankrupcy Mexicana pilots were making more than 20KUSD/month with national carrier work rules and rosters. They were doing better than most of their peers in the USA. I'm sure many will be happy to continue working with EK but they will probably come with their eyes open.
Last edited by Laker; 6th Sep 2010 at 04:51.
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si_jet your post #89 above stated the following:
I completely understand your points about management changing the conditions and the Pilots flying 92 hours a month etc etc. All this was explained to us by the Pilots in an open Q & A session during the Selection process.
Seeing as you were lucky enough to have been given, what must be, a satisfactory explanation by management during your interview process, as to why hours are being increased and conditions changed on EK pilots, maybe you could share those same said reasons to the PPRUNE group. I'm assuming that it was a satisfactory explanation because you are planning on leaving your current position to go to Emirates in spite of teh fact that others are briefing you and others on a daily basis as to the poor way management treat their staff.
From what I am reading on these posts, Emirates management are not sharing these same said reasons as to why they increase flying without compensation etc etc with its pilot group so the fact that you were told is certainly exciting for all.
I completely understand your points about management changing the conditions and the Pilots flying 92 hours a month etc etc. All this was explained to us by the Pilots in an open Q & A session during the Selection process.
Seeing as you were lucky enough to have been given, what must be, a satisfactory explanation by management during your interview process, as to why hours are being increased and conditions changed on EK pilots, maybe you could share those same said reasons to the PPRUNE group. I'm assuming that it was a satisfactory explanation because you are planning on leaving your current position to go to Emirates in spite of teh fact that others are briefing you and others on a daily basis as to the poor way management treat their staff.
From what I am reading on these posts, Emirates management are not sharing these same said reasons as to why they increase flying without compensation etc etc with its pilot group so the fact that you were told is certainly exciting for all.
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Si Jet, it really is a shame you didn't ask about the first officer, who was under training, getting the sack for an honest and genuine mistake while under training (not a deliberate breach of SOP!) that went unnoticed by his training Captain, who was supposed to check what he was doing.
I wonder if you will be so high and mighty if the axe falls on your neck in similar fashion.
You sound like an arrogant t*at! I'm sure you're going to be great fun to be with on the flight deck
I wonder if you will be so high and mighty if the axe falls on your neck in similar fashion.
You sound like an arrogant t*at! I'm sure you're going to be great fun to be with on the flight deck
Last edited by kiwi; 6th Sep 2010 at 15:57.
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Well thanks guys for tellling me what you think! Some of you are so unhappy with life in Dubai and Emirates that you are heading elsewhere for a better life style, T & C's etc etc. Good for you! I don't remember saying that I know how great EK or Dubai is?
Well as I ve mentioned already...leave! Go and get a job at Air New Zealand 'Kiwi' Im sure with the way you eloquently put yourself across, they will be offering you a position in no time. I never said in any my posts that Emirates is the utopia of aviation! It's not...we all know that! But look at my situation and thousands like me. It must be nice to wake up and have a bit of job security. Have you ever been made redundant?
The F/O who lost his job during his training; I don't know what happened to the poor lad. He may have been really badly treated or he may have struggled all the way through his training...maybe you could expand. But I know guys who have been chopped during their line training with a British companies. These companies are here to make money and there is very little slack in the system, we all know that.
I am not arrogant, even if some of you think I am. I am NOT saying it's a wonderful company, but there are so many guys here who are not happy with their currrent career at EK, then move on. Some of you are clearly so pi%*ed off with life, that you must have handed your notice in and are counting down the days until you move on to pastures new. Good for you! But there are some people on here [Pprune] that if you gave them a million pound a week, and asked them to fly one day a week to their destination of choice they would still be moaning.
Well maybe I shouldn't have expressed my opinion on the matter considering I'm an arrogant tw*t. I've got several mates and a family member at EK, so I guess I must have been misinformed on life there. What I would like to know is, of all the guys who hate life in Dubai so much, how many of you are leaving and when?
I used to enjoy Pprune, as a lot of the guys here used to have sensible informed views both positive and negative, but now, if anyone disagrees or have a different opinion they are slated. Fine! Well good luck to the guys who are ready to move on. I do apologise for expressing my limited opinion especially on a subject i know very little about.
Well as I ve mentioned already...leave! Go and get a job at Air New Zealand 'Kiwi' Im sure with the way you eloquently put yourself across, they will be offering you a position in no time. I never said in any my posts that Emirates is the utopia of aviation! It's not...we all know that! But look at my situation and thousands like me. It must be nice to wake up and have a bit of job security. Have you ever been made redundant?
The F/O who lost his job during his training; I don't know what happened to the poor lad. He may have been really badly treated or he may have struggled all the way through his training...maybe you could expand. But I know guys who have been chopped during their line training with a British companies. These companies are here to make money and there is very little slack in the system, we all know that.
I am not arrogant, even if some of you think I am. I am NOT saying it's a wonderful company, but there are so many guys here who are not happy with their currrent career at EK, then move on. Some of you are clearly so pi%*ed off with life, that you must have handed your notice in and are counting down the days until you move on to pastures new. Good for you! But there are some people on here [Pprune] that if you gave them a million pound a week, and asked them to fly one day a week to their destination of choice they would still be moaning.
Well maybe I shouldn't have expressed my opinion on the matter considering I'm an arrogant tw*t. I've got several mates and a family member at EK, so I guess I must have been misinformed on life there. What I would like to know is, of all the guys who hate life in Dubai so much, how many of you are leaving and when?
I used to enjoy Pprune, as a lot of the guys here used to have sensible informed views both positive and negative, but now, if anyone disagrees or have a different opinion they are slated. Fine! Well good luck to the guys who are ready to move on. I do apologise for expressing my limited opinion especially on a subject i know very little about.