EK Cabin Crew Resignations.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 322
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EK Cabin Crew Resignations.
Just under 150 cabin crew leaving in January. That's approximately 18% PA attrition rate, far higher than the company is used to.
There is now a shortage in every grade. Courses to cover just the attrition (let alone the expansion) are due to start early Feb, but the approval to send the contracts to these ppl has not yet been received..supposedly "in the pipeline" but somehow our senior managers seem to think you can recruit new crew with only a couple of weeks notice; it ain't gonna happen!
So the spiral continues; more work, not enough crew...fatiqued crew, more resignations.
Why are they leaving in the first place?...when you work ppl this hard, issue warning letters for calling sick too often (no such thing as fatique for CC), sneak in illegal patterns because junior crew are too naive or scared to challenge them, and treat 30 year olds like school children, no wonder they are leaving in droves.
Yes, we pilots have our own complaints, but remember the poor cabin crew are having the same if not worse issues, and they don't have the ability to tell the roster clerks that they are simply too tired to go to work.
There is now a shortage in every grade. Courses to cover just the attrition (let alone the expansion) are due to start early Feb, but the approval to send the contracts to these ppl has not yet been received..supposedly "in the pipeline" but somehow our senior managers seem to think you can recruit new crew with only a couple of weeks notice; it ain't gonna happen!
So the spiral continues; more work, not enough crew...fatiqued crew, more resignations.
Why are they leaving in the first place?...when you work ppl this hard, issue warning letters for calling sick too often (no such thing as fatique for CC), sneak in illegal patterns because junior crew are too naive or scared to challenge them, and treat 30 year olds like school children, no wonder they are leaving in droves.
Yes, we pilots have our own complaints, but remember the poor cabin crew are having the same if not worse issues, and they don't have the ability to tell the roster clerks that they are simply too tired to go to work.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: dubai
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We can't fight the battle for cabin crew but we should be sympathetic towards their plight.
Granted some of them are the dimmest bulbs in the package but others are quite fascinating people and for the most part we have one of the best cabin crew teams at any airline in the world. I am always amazed at how well they deal with our passengers who are quite often the bottom of the barrel when it comes to common decency or understanding of flight operations.
So if you think that perhaps our crew are not always up to the task when it comes to flight safety, then consider the fact that they are now as tired, or mored tired than us pilots.
As recent as a year ago, the average number of ASR's relating to a CC onboard injury or sickness , was 2 to 3 each week. In the past year, that number has increased to 7 to 8 per week. There is a direct correlation between fatigue and sickness and injury on the job...... something which is either oblivious to our bosses, or they simply don't care.
Granted some of them are the dimmest bulbs in the package but others are quite fascinating people and for the most part we have one of the best cabin crew teams at any airline in the world. I am always amazed at how well they deal with our passengers who are quite often the bottom of the barrel when it comes to common decency or understanding of flight operations.
So if you think that perhaps our crew are not always up to the task when it comes to flight safety, then consider the fact that they are now as tired, or mored tired than us pilots.
As recent as a year ago, the average number of ASR's relating to a CC onboard injury or sickness , was 2 to 3 each week. In the past year, that number has increased to 7 to 8 per week. There is a direct correlation between fatigue and sickness and injury on the job...... something which is either oblivious to our bosses, or they simply don't care.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dunesville
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Granted some of them are the dimmest bulbs in the package
The way they are being treated who can blame anyone for wanting to get out. The very best of luck to them.
short flights long nights
this is going to become interesting..we are already running at minimum (i think)
As a matter of curiosity, I wonder where all these folks are going in these "allegedly" hard times? Would suspect there is quite a long queue waiting to fill their shoes, and maybe the guys in the office know this, and retraining costs be damned. New blood always cheaper, and more malleable?
Join Date: May 2005
Location: dubai
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah I agree with you Phantom. This company always takes the most cost effective approach when it comes to human beings. They simply don't understand or even want to try to understand human nature.
I am not so concerned about 'where' the CC come from, but rather their quality. Let's face facts, a competent company could train almost any person to be a good CC (based on hiring criteria of course).
The problem with CC at Emirates, is not where they come from but rather the training they undergo. With all due respect to the few individuals in EK flight ops who recognize there is a serious problem in training of CC, there still exists a Lebanese Mafia, who don't think flight safety is their ultimate goal and they do their best to discourage interaction between pilots and CC.
Take a serious look at the trainers for CC and it is blatantly obvious they have their own self-interests in mind and they care as little about flight safety as OUR bosses do.
I might add, that if we pilots were 25 years old and were indoctrinated by the morons at EGHQ working as cabin crew trainers, we all would believe that crap too.
I think it is wise to behave properly as a Captain and instill confidence and mutual respect with the crew. It is not rocket science..... treat people properly and things usually work out... although this is contrary to EK policy.
Our CC have a tough job. As THEIR boss, I feel it is my responsibility to support them and that is part of my pre-departure brief. Then again, I also make it clear when someone behaves poorly, they ultimately have to answer to me.... and not just the Purser.
I believe it is in OUR best interests to support our cabin crew because utimately it helps flight safety. Other than that, I don't give a rats ass to be honest.
ps. eagerly awaiting WhiteKnights nonsensical response, haha.
I am not so concerned about 'where' the CC come from, but rather their quality. Let's face facts, a competent company could train almost any person to be a good CC (based on hiring criteria of course).
The problem with CC at Emirates, is not where they come from but rather the training they undergo. With all due respect to the few individuals in EK flight ops who recognize there is a serious problem in training of CC, there still exists a Lebanese Mafia, who don't think flight safety is their ultimate goal and they do their best to discourage interaction between pilots and CC.
Take a serious look at the trainers for CC and it is blatantly obvious they have their own self-interests in mind and they care as little about flight safety as OUR bosses do.
I might add, that if we pilots were 25 years old and were indoctrinated by the morons at EGHQ working as cabin crew trainers, we all would believe that crap too.
I think it is wise to behave properly as a Captain and instill confidence and mutual respect with the crew. It is not rocket science..... treat people properly and things usually work out... although this is contrary to EK policy.
Our CC have a tough job. As THEIR boss, I feel it is my responsibility to support them and that is part of my pre-departure brief. Then again, I also make it clear when someone behaves poorly, they ultimately have to answer to me.... and not just the Purser.
I believe it is in OUR best interests to support our cabin crew because utimately it helps flight safety. Other than that, I don't give a rats ass to be honest.
ps. eagerly awaiting WhiteKnights nonsensical response, haha.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: sandpit
Age: 40
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
i got a 110hours on december. Rostered a Bom late Nov and again for Dec but called sick since i was too tired doing 5 t/o in a row. Rostered again for 2 Bom in Jan and i cant swap them, surpirse surprise... it was my first sick for Bom flight and 2nd for a for a t/o for 2009. 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Not at EK :)
Posts: 526
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is extremely sad to see the massive negativity in all grades within the company. The company does not care. Period. EK used to offer a great quality product. It is deteriorating by the day. The company believe that "bums on seats" is the way forward for staff. Why pay for experienced staff when you can bring new blood cheaper and indoctrinate them at the same time? The best thing about EK is the staff. I have met some fantastic people here; kind hearted and hard working. They make the company. Not the planes.
TC and Co. need to go and see what is going on at EY and QR. Great people and service (many ex EK!!)
It reminds me of Mercedes cars after 1996 when they lost their way and produced inferior cars that rusted and broke down frequently. When the warranty claims became astronomical, in the $100's of millions, Benz brought back the quality people and it cost them dearly. That was 2002. Now the C class is the most reliable car in its class.
Please do not try to reinvent the wheel, EK.
Honour your contracts, retain and reward good staff, fix the lousy food (with good quality people) and stop interfering with motivated and intelligent people who know how to do their jobs and who care!
Very Simple.
Will EK listen?
Inshallah
TC and Co. need to go and see what is going on at EY and QR. Great people and service (many ex EK!!)
It reminds me of Mercedes cars after 1996 when they lost their way and produced inferior cars that rusted and broke down frequently. When the warranty claims became astronomical, in the $100's of millions, Benz brought back the quality people and it cost them dearly. That was 2002. Now the C class is the most reliable car in its class.
Please do not try to reinvent the wheel, EK.
Honour your contracts, retain and reward good staff, fix the lousy food (with good quality people) and stop interfering with motivated and intelligent people who know how to do their jobs and who care!
Very Simple.
Will EK listen?
Inshallah
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 55
Posts: 2,832
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Actually Mensa I agree in the main with what you say here - typically long winded as usual though.................. But would you really feel the need to be indoctrinated by an ek moron if you were only 25? I submit to you that we're hopefully not quite as dim or gullible as the 'lightbulbs' in the back
Just using your words before you accuse me of not standing 'shoulder to shoulder' with the colleagues and all that!!!!!
Just using your words before you accuse me of not standing 'shoulder to shoulder' with the colleagues and all that!!!!!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dubai
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cabin Crew fatigue
My better half has been EK cabin crew for over 3 years. My comments are both as a concerned partner and passenger.
1. Monthly flying hours are now 100. Used to be 80.
2. Because of extra flying hours crew are flying on minimal rest. Not unusual to return for the overnight each way to/from Asia and then fly again the following day.
3. The flights deck are not in charge of the CC. Sadly. The captain may brief the crew and say they are welcome to rest in the cockpit if tired. But after the flight deck crew leave - the purser will simply say that there are to be no visits to the cockpit for rest. Purser sets tone for the CC. Not the flight deck.
4. The purser/sfs writes the appraisals. These are the people that rule the lives of the CC.
5. Long haul back from PEk for instance. Light load. No curtained rest area. Crew allowed to sit in seats at rear. But they cannot sleep or read and they cannot use headphones. Bizarre. A short sleep must help.
6. No reading in the galleys. No books or newspapers. Pax sleeping. Boredom and fatigue set it.
7. Crew are scared to call in sick. Points system used to record sick days taken.
8. I have seen crew falling asleep during descent strapped into their jump seats. Will they be alert in the event of a problem?
9. The passenger is always right appears to be the purser mantra. Except in extreme cases. I do not see or hear much support for CC who are in many cases dealing with some of the most demanding and unpleasant pax.
And the trouble is that for every CC who leaves because they are burned out - there are another 20 lined up around the world ready to come to Dubai.
Bests.
1. Monthly flying hours are now 100. Used to be 80.
2. Because of extra flying hours crew are flying on minimal rest. Not unusual to return for the overnight each way to/from Asia and then fly again the following day.
3. The flights deck are not in charge of the CC. Sadly. The captain may brief the crew and say they are welcome to rest in the cockpit if tired. But after the flight deck crew leave - the purser will simply say that there are to be no visits to the cockpit for rest. Purser sets tone for the CC. Not the flight deck.
4. The purser/sfs writes the appraisals. These are the people that rule the lives of the CC.
5. Long haul back from PEk for instance. Light load. No curtained rest area. Crew allowed to sit in seats at rear. But they cannot sleep or read and they cannot use headphones. Bizarre. A short sleep must help.
6. No reading in the galleys. No books or newspapers. Pax sleeping. Boredom and fatigue set it.
7. Crew are scared to call in sick. Points system used to record sick days taken.
8. I have seen crew falling asleep during descent strapped into their jump seats. Will they be alert in the event of a problem?
9. The passenger is always right appears to be the purser mantra. Except in extreme cases. I do not see or hear much support for CC who are in many cases dealing with some of the most demanding and unpleasant pax.
And the trouble is that for every CC who leaves because they are burned out - there are another 20 lined up around the world ready to come to Dubai.
Bests.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: )
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
New CC pay RUMOUR
there are another 20 lined up around the world ready to come to Dubai.
"You want to be a glamourous EK CC? Here's the new pay deal. Take it or leave it." So they take it because it's better than whatever they had back in India or Philipines wherever.
According to this rumour, the CC now have a 'B' scale. Other intakes will move back forth between the usual demographic mix/old contracts and this new arrangement.
So discriminatory, it's hard to believe - or is it???
As THEIR boss, I feel it is my responsibility to support them and that is part of my pre-departure brief. Then again, I also make it clear when someone behaves poorly, they ultimately have to answer to me.... and not just the Purser.
I believe it is in OUR best interests to support our cabin crew because utimately it helps flight safety.
I believe it is in OUR best interests to support our cabin crew because utimately it helps flight safety.
They don't see you as the boss. Some of them don't even think the FO can fly! Take a look around in the hotel lobby next time you're at work. When someone tells everyone to get on the bus, who do they listen to, you or the purser?
Man, they don't even know what you're talking about when you mention behaviour because it's never THEM who behave badly! Just enjoy yourself and leave them to it; you can still have a glass of chardonnay with the broader-minded amongst them. And if someone you're not likely to ever see again misbehaves, why do you care to get involved? Let the purser deal with it and have a half-hour de-brief while you're in the Audi reading last week's 7Days on the way back to your bed in DSO.
Just give them the flight time and head to our salubrious Captains' Lounge for a relaxing, pre-flight back-rub and a complimentary cappucino and everyone's happy.
But with those pursers who roll their eyes when you walk in, just stand there and keep on talking and talking and talking....
At the end of the day, whether they're safe or not will come from inside them. Do they have the brainpower to understand the situation and follow their training or not is not decided by anything said to them by you or the purser.
If you want cabin service, hire malleable, subservient third world females.
If you want cabin safety, hire some HAGGARD, OLD, WESTERN BOILERS and POOFTERS.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: sandpit
Age: 40
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you want cabin service, hire malleable, subservient third world females.
If you want cabin safety, hire some HAGGARD, OLD, WESTERN BOILERS and POOFTERS.
If you want cabin safety, hire some HAGGARD, OLD, WESTERN BOILERS and POOFTERS.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Age: 54
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why do you say if you want service hire the 3rd world? EK has hired pretty much nothing but 3rd world stews (the west has left) and the service has gone in the toilet.
When I arrived there was a nice mix of west and 3rd world hostess' and Emirates was ranked somewhere in the top 5 of the world. Now with nothing but the 3rd world Ek is not even ranked in the top 25 of world airlines.
When you talk to the stews you get the ipmpression they are tired and scared of the company but will do anything not to get fired. After all they make more in a month at EK than they would make in a year back in their cestpool.
When I arrived there was a nice mix of west and 3rd world hostess' and Emirates was ranked somewhere in the top 5 of the world. Now with nothing but the 3rd world Ek is not even ranked in the top 25 of world airlines.
When you talk to the stews you get the ipmpression they are tired and scared of the company but will do anything not to get fired. After all they make more in a month at EK than they would make in a year back in their cestpool.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
3rd world stews? I disagree with this. Flew 4 sectors back the second half of December and it was a nice mix of east/west. I was impressed, and I agree with mensaboy...the CC are fantastic and put up with some pathetic treatment from passengers.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: sandpit
Age: 40
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
a lot of my crew friends from australia and UK are still with the company because they still make more money with flying. Yes they might be paid more if they work in their 1st world country but with taxes, rent, utilities, and etc, they are left with so much less than what they make as cabin crew.
the issue with the crew resignations is not about the money. it is because of Dxb, the flying, the customers and what not. CC are very demoralized. SO saying that Ek hires more from the third world to save money is nonsense when everybody has the same basic and flying pay depending on your length of stay with the company and grade irregardless of where you are from.
the issue with the crew resignations is not about the money. it is because of Dxb, the flying, the customers and what not. CC are very demoralized. SO saying that Ek hires more from the third world to save money is nonsense when everybody has the same basic and flying pay depending on your length of stay with the company and grade irregardless of where you are from.
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: On the Beach
Posts: 297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The attached You Tube clip might well explain some of the Cabin Crew issues:
YouTube - Arabic speaker on a middle eastern airline
YouTube - Arabic speaker on a middle eastern airline
Join Date: May 2005
Location: dubai
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So now WK is threatening PK to meet him 'face to face'. Does anyone supports this man's POV? Oh yes, perhaps 5% of our pilot population will do so, haha.
WK has never properly refuted ONE single thing that I have posted, except regurgitating our management positions. WK is the epitome of what is wrong with this profession.
Lately, he expressed that pilots who have had their rosters changed too frequently, ' have pissed off the rostering department'. This statement by WhightKnight, should adequately explain his perspective. Roster changes should never be due to a pilot standing up for his 'RIGHTS' my dear friend WK. Roster changes at EK are due to improper and insane rostering practices. Simple as that. But then again, no doubt you do flights that are illegal and have not yet suffered the consequences.
You have slagged us pilots in general for complaining about the insanity of this place, you have targeted the MEL crew (yet pretend to be the Captains mate), and you have at ever opportunity criticized pilots who state the obvious about this company.
I have no heartache with the likes of............ (forgot his name now, sorry) expressing a differing POV than mine. At least he explained himself, but WhiteKnight hides behind a barrier of '' let's all pull together'', because rostering is not screwing ME around.
WK is a privileged UK brat, who wants to believe he is furthering his families destiny as an expat. The man exemplifies exactly what is wrong in some aspects of western culture. Granted, if WK grew up in Zimbabwe, he would be the first man to stand up and support Muggabe.
I actually have started to understand you WK. You grew up in a certain manner so naturally you think a certain way.
You have never ever, made one post that refutes my stand, in an intelligent manner. You revert to propaganda, taking personal shots, or you stand quietly on the sidelines regarding issues that are irrefutable.
I have to admit, you are quite interesting to say the least. A man who believes he is intelligent and wise, who is neither. So goes the world I guess. Makes me laugh sometimes.
WK has never properly refuted ONE single thing that I have posted, except regurgitating our management positions. WK is the epitome of what is wrong with this profession.
Lately, he expressed that pilots who have had their rosters changed too frequently, ' have pissed off the rostering department'. This statement by WhightKnight, should adequately explain his perspective. Roster changes should never be due to a pilot standing up for his 'RIGHTS' my dear friend WK. Roster changes at EK are due to improper and insane rostering practices. Simple as that. But then again, no doubt you do flights that are illegal and have not yet suffered the consequences.
You have slagged us pilots in general for complaining about the insanity of this place, you have targeted the MEL crew (yet pretend to be the Captains mate), and you have at ever opportunity criticized pilots who state the obvious about this company.
I have no heartache with the likes of............ (forgot his name now, sorry) expressing a differing POV than mine. At least he explained himself, but WhiteKnight hides behind a barrier of '' let's all pull together'', because rostering is not screwing ME around.
WK is a privileged UK brat, who wants to believe he is furthering his families destiny as an expat. The man exemplifies exactly what is wrong in some aspects of western culture. Granted, if WK grew up in Zimbabwe, he would be the first man to stand up and support Muggabe.
I actually have started to understand you WK. You grew up in a certain manner so naturally you think a certain way.
You have never ever, made one post that refutes my stand, in an intelligent manner. You revert to propaganda, taking personal shots, or you stand quietly on the sidelines regarding issues that are irrefutable.
I have to admit, you are quite interesting to say the least. A man who believes he is intelligent and wise, who is neither. So goes the world I guess. Makes me laugh sometimes.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 55
Posts: 2,832
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mensa - you are probably the most arrogant person that posts in these forums.. What is it for you? Four years here and you think you're the 'champion of the EK pilots cause'. The news for you is that you can moan and moan about a lot of things and IT WON"T CHANGE ANYTHING - so like I said, get over it.
Twice now you've said that I 'denigrate the profession' - I may think you're an idiot MB but I have never slandered your professional ability. You can talk about my profession AFTER you have flown with me
I say you're arrogant because you really can't stand the fact that I disagree with your POV so vehemently - and that only 5% may agree with me.. Maybe so but do you see all 2200 EK pilots posting in this forum? No? It's the usual whingers and moaners for the most part
So another incorrect comment from you!!
As for the 'roster changes' issue - I fail to see what the issue is for most people as they are generally minimal.. If you think a roster change is wrong then get hold of the people you think are responsible.. Why come and flap about it on pprune And you're right MB - I COULD NOT CARE LESS about your roster and it's changes so get over the fact that I will not be shedding tears for you if you get a change.
You keep bringing up this MEL accident - I never said I was the captain's mate. I did say I talked with him about it very shortly after it happened. Try reading WHAT I write rather than what you THINK I write Are you in denial that a 345 was nearly LOST due to poor performance in the flightdeck
Then you make a statement that I'm a 'privileged UK brat' - not sure how you can say this when you don't know me but this is another part of your hypocrisy. At least I say what I think, and DO what I say.. You however waffle incoherently and wow - nothing changes in EK flight ops.. You still wanting to kill Ed and his family? Tried to brush that little nastiness of yours under the carpet didn't you MB by deleting your thread - don't worry though, quite a few guys saw it
And you say that I take personal shots - you really are the proverbial pot.........................
As for Zimbabwe - do you even know where it is?
I'll put you down as 'neither' too
Twice now you've said that I 'denigrate the profession' - I may think you're an idiot MB but I have never slandered your professional ability. You can talk about my profession AFTER you have flown with me
I say you're arrogant because you really can't stand the fact that I disagree with your POV so vehemently - and that only 5% may agree with me.. Maybe so but do you see all 2200 EK pilots posting in this forum? No? It's the usual whingers and moaners for the most part
So another incorrect comment from you!!As for the 'roster changes' issue - I fail to see what the issue is for most people as they are generally minimal.. If you think a roster change is wrong then get hold of the people you think are responsible.. Why come and flap about it on pprune
And you're right MB - I COULD NOT CARE LESS about your roster and it's changes so get over the fact that I will not be shedding tears for you if you get a change.You keep bringing up this MEL accident - I never said I was the captain's mate. I did say I talked with him about it very shortly after it happened. Try reading WHAT I write rather than what you THINK I write
Are you in denial that a 345 was nearly LOST due to poor performance in the flightdeckThen you make a statement that I'm a 'privileged UK brat' - not sure how you can say this when you don't know me but this is another part of your hypocrisy. At least I say what I think, and DO what I say.. You however waffle incoherently and wow - nothing changes in EK flight ops.. You still wanting to kill Ed and his family? Tried to brush that little nastiness of yours under the carpet didn't you MB by deleting your thread - don't worry though, quite a few guys saw it
And you say that I take personal shots - you really are the proverbial pot.........................As for Zimbabwe - do you even know where it is
?I'll put you down as 'neither' too