EK Cabin Crew Resignations.
@ WK and MB,
As an outsider looking in, I'd like to air my POV (if you'll all indulge me a minute?)...
It is very disheartening to watch two professional pilots slag each other off in a public forum. It does nothing to strengthen the faith that professional pilots are supposed to imbue upon us passengers.
WK, you said "....but do you see all 2200 EK pilots posting in this forum? No? It's the usual whingers and moaners for the most part."
I am afraid your statement WK, appears to have labelled both MB and yourself in the same category.
As an outsider looking in, I'd like to air my POV (if you'll all indulge me a minute?)...
It is very disheartening to watch two professional pilots slag each other off in a public forum. It does nothing to strengthen the faith that professional pilots are supposed to imbue upon us passengers.
WK, you said "....but do you see all 2200 EK pilots posting in this forum? No? It's the usual whingers and moaners for the most part."
I am afraid your statement WK, appears to have labelled both MB and yourself in the same category.
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Hi DD - thanks for your POV.. However I'm having my professionalism 'slagged off' because I dare disagree with these whingers and moaners.. If you read my posts going back a while I'm looking at Dubai on the bright side - I enjoy it here and I ain't moaning and whinging
Sure, things are wrong at EK in many respects but my point is that crying about it here will make not one jot of difference.. So no - I wouldn't put myself in the same category as MB..
Sure, things are wrong at EK in many respects but my point is that crying about it here will make not one jot of difference.. So no - I wouldn't put myself in the same category as MB..
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Apologies in advance for hopefully my last rebuttal to WK.
First off I have not been here for about 4 years, not sure where you got that info. Secondly, no person on this planet has accused me of being arrogant, other than you WK, which is quite amusing to me. And do you honestly believe my intention is to 'change' things at EK by posting on Pprune. I have 2 purposes in posting truths about EK.
1- It is a method to vent steam and no one has to read what I post if they choose not to
2- It is a method whereby potential new-joiners can gather information about EK and make their own decisions. I have a feeling this is what bothers you so much, my posts denigrate what you consider a milestone in your career.
I have never said you were a bad pilot, which obviously I cannot judge simply because our views differ so greatly. You could be the best damn pilot on the planet but it still does not change the fact that you are quick to criticize pilots who err, quick to offer up the company propaganda regarding any issue and quick to take such great offense towards individuals who speak the truth if it somehow challenges your view of your job.
No kidding, the 5% estimate of pilots who agree with you was just me 'taking a shot' at you. Glad it worked. Then again, it is probably a good guess, haha. Another joke by the way, if that eluded you.
Then you go on and on about roster changes and finally state that you couldn't care less. I think this adequately demonstrates your thinking. As long as things are good for YOU, whatever happens to other pilots is not your concern. At least you have backed down on your premise that ''I'' or any other pilot, is the cause of insane rosters changes. You honestly don't care if other pilots are getting screwed around by our inept and out of control rostering department?
As for the A345 accident, you have twisted things around. I am not in denial about what happened because I have actually considered that what 'The Company' says, might not be the exact truth. Yes, definitely the pilots messed-up. But good pilots don't mess-up without a reason. You assume it was not following SOP's based on your alleged conversation with the Capt, and what you have been told by the company. First off, I find it hard to believe that 'said Capt' confessed to you that he did not follow SOP's especially considering you admit he is not a friend of yours.
Not that I am looking forward to another diatribe from you, but you still haven't responded to the fact that TCAS et al, decreed that Fatigue was not a factor, long before the initial report came out and even after the report came out, there was no mention of 'not following' SOP's. Please enlighten us, from where does your information come? Once again, you may be correct in your assumption, but isn't it odd that a fellow pilot assumes the worst of his colleague before the final report (let alone the initial report) has been published? I think YOU are in denial about what might be the causal factors behind such a terrible accident.
Then you go on to state that ''you say what you think and do what you say'', while accusing me of the opposite. Doesn't this contradict you assertion that I say TOO MUCH of what I think? I certainly do what I say, which is evidenced by my ASR's regarding Fatigue and also not accepting everything Rostering tries to shove down my throat. I suspect, with only the evidence of your 'company man' attitude that you do not cause waves because it might in fact jeopardize your exultant position as the most fortunate EK pilot in history.
I don't normally take personal shots even when I completely disagree with someone and I think they are an idiot. (not suggesting you are an idiot). Yeah I have made a couple snide remarks to you, but nothing compared to your posts. It is laughable that YOU accuse me of that technique.
Regarding the disgust of our colleagues regarding our written battle here on Pprune, I am guilty of that charge.
So in a nutshell WK. I concede you might be a decent person and you seem of average intelligence (hell you might even be a brainiac for all I know). But what annoys me is that you tend towards supporting the 'company' POV while tending to express counter-arguments to positions contrary to the company position. Stop pretending that you are simply frustrated because posting on Pprune will have no affect on the company. EVERY SINGLE pilot at EK, should know that fact.
I openly admit that you might NOT be one of the minority of ass-kissing pilots in our profession. In fact, it is quite possible you are a helluva guy, both inside and out of the cockpit.
I really must resist the temptation to mention GWB in some posts. The 'evil' part of me just wants to stir things up, but the end result is that it diminishes what I am trying to express. One lesson learned from our battle, haha.
Honestly, I hope your position at EK reaps rewards. That sentence is written in all sincerity. It might seem strange to you, but I truly feel compassion towards my fellow pilots and the decline of this profession. I might completely disagree with you on many issues and my gut instinct is to try to highlite what I think are your natural and negative personality traits (obviously not justifiable simply based on postings on an anonymous forum) I apologize for that, because it is neither fair nor defensibly by any measure. Yeah, you got my goat, congrats!
I hereby offer an olive branch. I give up trying to change your POV and I will do my best to 'tone' things down in the future. I do not enjoy this battle and I often feel somewhat bad about things I have posted, even though they are truthful about EK. I should be better able to take the high-road, but I have to admit to being somewhat 'testy' about certain issues at EK.
PS. I realize it is unfair to expect that someone, having read my lengthy post, should not be expected to respond accordingly. Feel free to slag me and counter my position if you desire, then we can call it quits, if you agree.
First off I have not been here for about 4 years, not sure where you got that info. Secondly, no person on this planet has accused me of being arrogant, other than you WK, which is quite amusing to me. And do you honestly believe my intention is to 'change' things at EK by posting on Pprune. I have 2 purposes in posting truths about EK.
1- It is a method to vent steam and no one has to read what I post if they choose not to
2- It is a method whereby potential new-joiners can gather information about EK and make their own decisions. I have a feeling this is what bothers you so much, my posts denigrate what you consider a milestone in your career.
I have never said you were a bad pilot, which obviously I cannot judge simply because our views differ so greatly. You could be the best damn pilot on the planet but it still does not change the fact that you are quick to criticize pilots who err, quick to offer up the company propaganda regarding any issue and quick to take such great offense towards individuals who speak the truth if it somehow challenges your view of your job.
No kidding, the 5% estimate of pilots who agree with you was just me 'taking a shot' at you. Glad it worked. Then again, it is probably a good guess, haha. Another joke by the way, if that eluded you.
Then you go on and on about roster changes and finally state that you couldn't care less. I think this adequately demonstrates your thinking. As long as things are good for YOU, whatever happens to other pilots is not your concern. At least you have backed down on your premise that ''I'' or any other pilot, is the cause of insane rosters changes. You honestly don't care if other pilots are getting screwed around by our inept and out of control rostering department?
As for the A345 accident, you have twisted things around. I am not in denial about what happened because I have actually considered that what 'The Company' says, might not be the exact truth. Yes, definitely the pilots messed-up. But good pilots don't mess-up without a reason. You assume it was not following SOP's based on your alleged conversation with the Capt, and what you have been told by the company. First off, I find it hard to believe that 'said Capt' confessed to you that he did not follow SOP's especially considering you admit he is not a friend of yours.
Not that I am looking forward to another diatribe from you, but you still haven't responded to the fact that TCAS et al, decreed that Fatigue was not a factor, long before the initial report came out and even after the report came out, there was no mention of 'not following' SOP's. Please enlighten us, from where does your information come? Once again, you may be correct in your assumption, but isn't it odd that a fellow pilot assumes the worst of his colleague before the final report (let alone the initial report) has been published? I think YOU are in denial about what might be the causal factors behind such a terrible accident.
Then you go on to state that ''you say what you think and do what you say'', while accusing me of the opposite. Doesn't this contradict you assertion that I say TOO MUCH of what I think? I certainly do what I say, which is evidenced by my ASR's regarding Fatigue and also not accepting everything Rostering tries to shove down my throat. I suspect, with only the evidence of your 'company man' attitude that you do not cause waves because it might in fact jeopardize your exultant position as the most fortunate EK pilot in history.
I don't normally take personal shots even when I completely disagree with someone and I think they are an idiot. (not suggesting you are an idiot). Yeah I have made a couple snide remarks to you, but nothing compared to your posts. It is laughable that YOU accuse me of that technique.
Regarding the disgust of our colleagues regarding our written battle here on Pprune, I am guilty of that charge.
So in a nutshell WK. I concede you might be a decent person and you seem of average intelligence (hell you might even be a brainiac for all I know). But what annoys me is that you tend towards supporting the 'company' POV while tending to express counter-arguments to positions contrary to the company position. Stop pretending that you are simply frustrated because posting on Pprune will have no affect on the company. EVERY SINGLE pilot at EK, should know that fact.
I openly admit that you might NOT be one of the minority of ass-kissing pilots in our profession. In fact, it is quite possible you are a helluva guy, both inside and out of the cockpit.
I really must resist the temptation to mention GWB in some posts. The 'evil' part of me just wants to stir things up, but the end result is that it diminishes what I am trying to express. One lesson learned from our battle, haha.
Honestly, I hope your position at EK reaps rewards. That sentence is written in all sincerity. It might seem strange to you, but I truly feel compassion towards my fellow pilots and the decline of this profession. I might completely disagree with you on many issues and my gut instinct is to try to highlite what I think are your natural and negative personality traits (obviously not justifiable simply based on postings on an anonymous forum) I apologize for that, because it is neither fair nor defensibly by any measure. Yeah, you got my goat, congrats!
I hereby offer an olive branch. I give up trying to change your POV and I will do my best to 'tone' things down in the future. I do not enjoy this battle and I often feel somewhat bad about things I have posted, even though they are truthful about EK. I should be better able to take the high-road, but I have to admit to being somewhat 'testy' about certain issues at EK.
PS. I realize it is unfair to expect that someone, having read my lengthy post, should not be expected to respond accordingly. Feel free to slag me and counter my position if you desire, then we can call it quits, if you agree.
Last edited by mensaboy; 12th Jan 2010 at 17:01.
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Cabin Crew Courses Cancelled
As predicted in the original post of this thread, the first two cabin crew courses of Feb have been cancelled, no doubt because the contracts weren't sent out early enough to allow new joiners to get here on time.
I suspect senior management at EK still believe that people around the world are prepared to drop everything at a few days notice and fly here to begin their 3 year shafting.
It would seem that crisis mangement has taken on a new meaning across the company, with the latest Airbus to Boeing transition course being announced with 24 hours notice. You'd kinda think an airline of our size would be able to do just a little better?
I suspect senior management at EK still believe that people around the world are prepared to drop everything at a few days notice and fly here to begin their 3 year shafting.
It would seem that crisis mangement has taken on a new meaning across the company, with the latest Airbus to Boeing transition course being announced with 24 hours notice. You'd kinda think an airline of our size would be able to do just a little better?
