Rosters at EK

[mensaboy]

There IS a capability to see when there has been a manual insertion, which is a standard option of ADOPT. It shows a big M with a circle around it at the bottom of all affected Rosters, except of course EK has elected to disable this function. (for obvious reasons)

One tip.....minimize or don't use AVOIDS if at all possible. I have no explanation why this works but it seems to help.

Correct me if i'm wrong, and not trying to spread dissention, but the CRS guys are assigned their days when they are available for 'help', which is included as part of their roster. In addition, they get to choose ONE confirmed (I was told 2 but that seems ridiculous) pairing each month. Obviously much of the email time they do on their own, but well worth it in my opinion.
I appreciate their help and am in no way slagging them.

[767200]

Indeed. They do get to pick one trip per month for their help but in any case I have found them to be very helpful and in fact after taking two "lessons" from them my rosters have improved significantly..

[ekpilot]

Against principle (CRS team)

I'm against the principle of pilots taking from pilots. Instead of asking for money, these guys do work for EK and are rewarded by taking away flights and days OFF from colleagues. If they want to do the job for free so be it. Don't take my flight and do it on your time. We all work for money. If I work more or do overtime I don't take my colleagues flights. Especially if i don't have the seniority to get it. I Ask to be paid with money. I could not walk around working for the CIE and being paid with my colleagues flights. It is EK's responsibility to pay these guys, not the pilots. It's costing EK nothing. The pilots are paying again with reduced t&c since these guys take all the good flights. Just pilots taking from pilots again. Pilots only think of themselves. Watch the coming months, it will be interesting I'm sure. My rosters is nothing i've asked for this month. Ridiculous.

Keep Discovering

[linedriva]

Ekpilot, If I've read your post correctly, then I have to disagree with you. These CRS help guys are working for US. They're trying to help us get the way of life we want (whether that's turnarounds or trips). The company really don't care about lifestyle as long as the flights are crewed. So I have no problem allowing them to pick a trip each month. Most of the advice I've received from them has been good and has improved my way of life. Even my bottom bid month wasn't that bad.

Keep up the work guys,

Linedriva

[PorkKnuckle]

these guys do work for EK

Why would EK care a pinch of s**t whether we know how to bid or not? The way I see it these guys "work for us" not for EK. If they get ONE free flight choice a month out of it then who cares...??

I'm surprised Ek still allow it. It must be costing them SOMEthing... very out of character.

I can't see why the CRS chaps bother putting in the effort for a bunch of moaning whingers who don't appreciate it - all for ONE free flight. Especially since they obviously know how to bid, themselves, and probably do well anyway.

A big thanks to the CRS guys......

But the more people who cannot figure out how to bid properly, the better for those who can.....

Bring on straight seniority!

[mensaboy]

Keep the bid groups (from a guy with decent seniority)
But how about offering Bid Lines, in other words the company produces X number of rosters for X number of pilots and we bid each line in order of preference.

If there are 500 triple 7 F/O's, then the system produces 500 triple 7 F/O rosters and pilots bid for them in order of preference.

The benefits?
-a more equitable distribution of flying each month
-more effective use of manpower
-no more Manual insertions and fewer changes each month
-it is incredibly simple to bid
-easy for the company to design
-scrap ADOPT because it is not designed to optimize anything when a company misuses it
-seniority is more easily honored
-vacation time would actually mean something, in that the company couldn't simply load up the remainder of a vacation month
-rosters could be designed that followed a pattern, such as consistent direction of flight, or consistent report times etc.
-certain percentages of rosters could be designed to offer things such as stretches of days off, a sensible mix of ULR vs turns, or whatever the pilot group deemed most important
-easy to determine when you are not awarded what your seniority dictates, in other words no more roster manipulation

There is no doubt that Rosters at EK have become a huge negative issue and ADOPT in its present form, simply disguises the incompetence and corruption within the crewing department. Rosters and therefore lifestyles will continue to decline at EK until the mass exodus begins.

[ekpilot]

Fair enough it's okay to agree to disagree! Like i said i don't agree with the principle. It's about the principle. They (CRS guys) are not doing it for you. They are doing it for them. Because they can get favors. What are the favors, my flights and my days off when they are junior to me. If EK would pay money for the same job they would attract a different type of crowd for the job. Work=Money. I don't work for free unless i have no choice. Since nothing is free in this world, well they take our flights and our days OFF out of their seniority. I don't agree with that principle...

Keep Discovering

[Trader]

ADOPT works great. If senior mgmt made an effort to ensure that it operated properly!

Bidding lines stinks in comparison because the pilots lose flexibilty - especially in top months. If they can screw up adopt they can screw up lines so that NO one is happy.

The current system of rotating bids works well and certainly keeps the company happy. Look at the sick days of jr pilots at straight seniority company's as proof. After a while they simply give up and call in sick. With EK slowing it growth rate there will be more pilots at the bottom for a longer a time.

Regardless of the system used the company has to step in and ensure it runs correctly.

[White Knight]

ADOPT works fine, it's just the 'manhandling' that is the problem - And there is a big thick guide lurking somewhere but I can't remember where..

Bid lines - NO thanks

And thanks to the help guys for giving their time.. So what if they get a flight out of it. It's the training department that'll do more damage to your roster if they decide to take your flights AFTER publication

[PorkKnuckle]

Bidding for "lines" (whatever the hell that is) would stink worse. Days off is about the only thing you can bid for with any small chance of certainty (if done sensibly).

As for the trainers, sorry but they should be flying to all the crap-holes - eg India or Africa so the trainees actually get some benefit out of flying into places where controllers try to kill you and the support is incompetent or virtually non-existent. And for the DECs since they seem to be a necessary evil, they can get some actual idea of what they'll be dealing with when let loose upon the airline after 10 sectors. Not too hard to fly to lovely Europe is it??? Why waste it on training...

Look at the sick days of jr pilots at straight seniority company's as proof. After a while they simply give up and call in sick.

Unlike the old-timers who get shiite flying in their bottom month?? Not really fair either is it? Unless you're junior that is!

[Trader]

Actually, it is fair! Those old timers had the benefit of the rotating bid when they were junior. Now they are senior and they want it the other way!!!!!! Go figure!!

[Thylakoid]

Speaking of rosters, could anyone give me a hint on how to subscribe to that flight swap group?

Thanks

[cityfan]

As an "old time" union guy, who has lived under BOTH bid lines and ADOPT, it is interesting to see how the people here are "stewing" on bidding and the pros and cons of preferential bidding versus bid lines.

Sadly, bid lines work too well for pilots (some equalization of quality for everyone, someone not getting everything allows everyone to get something) and removes flexibility to "score" and "predict" schedules in the same manner as ADOPT does. With flexibility comes pilot-hosing and squeezing trips into small spaces. One thing that CAN help with ADOPT is knowing how the company scores certain events and allowing the pilot group to have some kind of PRE-preferencing some of those parameters. Clearly, that will NEVER happen.

Also, to borrow a phrase, once you go ADOPT, you never go back....so goodbye bid lines, hello company created maximum flexibility.

Just so you know, building scheduling parameters into your T&C is the ONLY way to effect some positive change once you go ADOPT. Sadly, most contract companies get very little "input" from their pilots when it comes to the "behind the scenes" build parameters in their scheduling system, so even trying to get those changes in your T&C is probably a losing cause.

Good luck and, blasphemy, I know, wouldn't it be great to see a strong union develop at one of these "only way is up" carriers like Emirates, Etihad, etc...?

A guy can dream, can't he?!

[rocketsurgeon]

Rosters

Spoke with FDM and was told that the roster situation is coming from Senior Management. Crew Control and Schedulers were told to "disrupt" the rosters whenever possible.

Not my words - direct from FDM.

Rocket

[EK Snorkel]

Crew Control and Schedulers were told to "disrupt" the rosters whenever possible.

And I will "disrupt" Crew Control "disruptions" by pressing 2

[PositiveRate876]

swap group

Speaking of rosters, could anyone give me a hint on how to subscribe to that flight swap group?

Thanks

The private forum http://www.pprune.org/emirates-66/
shows you how to subscribe along with other helpful
tips, phone numbers, etc.

[allaru]

sabotage of safety

"Crew Control and Schedulers were told to "disrupt" the rosters whenever possible."

If this is indeed true why don't the managers just come down to the aircraft and throw a bucket of sand in an engine.

That type of sabotage is no different to any other other type of sabotage that degrades safety in a deliberate and criminal way.

What a bunch of buffoons.

[ekpilot]

the roster situation is coming from Senior Management

Crew Control and Schedulers were told to "disrupt" the rosters whenever possible.

Heard similar from very credible SMNC guys. Now that all departments are under one big mission control room at level 6 of HQ it is easy to create these situations by walking in there, look over shoulders, and make last minute changes. Desperate times desperate measures. We are hurting more than everybody think. Do not underestimate this financial crisis. We might have hit the point of no return. After all the amount of money we have to pay at the end of the month to cover our costs must be unreal. At one point if you don't cover your engagements nobody wait for you. With the yields these days we are losing big money. Interesting times ahead! In the mean time my roster is a joke. Nothing I asked for. They are putting special attention at inserting flights before and after leave these days. There are so many guys on the swap groups asking to swap before or after their leave because they received no days off. This is easy to disturb when Adopt gives you a string of five days. Just to think about what the company might insert into Adopt's parameters. They can play with it on a monthly basis and they don't have to tell anybody. Our management team are used to sail in clear waters. They are right in the middle of a perfect storm. So far these changes to our rosters must be required thinking they are doing the right thing to save the ship... Only time will tell what these type of decisions do.

Keep discovering

[mensaboy]

''Desperate times desperate measures. We are hurting more than everybody think''

Yes WE are hurting but not the company. You have fallen for the propaganda.

EK is doing fine and exceptionally well if compared to any other airline in the world. The real problem is that Dubai (replace 'Dubai' with whomever you wish, for example Government), is raping EK. Is there anyone who believes that EK is not 'funding' Dubai's massive debt?

The departments at EK responsible for ticket pricing, choosing the most profitable destinations and route structure have always been operated effectively. Now, suddenly they have got it all wrong?
Not a chance... especially considering fuel is cheaper than what was budgeted for, we are using less fuel as well, AND our loads are 83.5%. It is beyond 'reason' that ticket prices were set so wrong. Besides, EK is still way more expensive than any other airline in the region.

WE the employees are suffering, in order to keep Dubai afloat and I would prefer if they would be honest about it, instead of winding up the propaganda machine.

There is no accountability with respect to profits, who takes what, and where exactly the money goes. To believe that Dubai is not reaching deep into EK's pockets, is naive. I would do the same if I ran this place.

So.... to excuse EK for continually altering our T&C's, messing with our rosters, and basically destroying our quality of life, just 'encourages' them to continue down this path.

(Pardon the thread drift)

[PorkKnuckle]

You have fallen for the propaganda

Congratulations, Grasshopper, you have finally seen the light. I remember when you spruiked to a much different and very joyful tune.

Something doesn't add up. Managment cannot be that stupid...can they??

You're not missing anything at all. Try looking at it this way:

If it tastes like bullsh!t and it looks like bullsh!t and it smells like bullsh!t, then you can rest quite assured that it most definitely IS bullsh!t.

I find this explains quite a lot of the oddball proclamations which I hear about in this operation.

But bullsh!tting your employees successfully and without losing their respect is quite an artform and they're just not good enough at it to be convincing. Why? Because with the short-term blow-ins from US and UK, their hearts are not in it. And with the others, their minds are not.