Profit - but you got to work more!!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: united arab emirates
Posts: 370
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
been said before ; " they know the cost of everything and the value of nothing"
sadly so do our passengers and tourists to dubai. for many its an experience they do only once .
the arrogance and greed is flowing over into the product , no longer winning awards . on time performance that is non existant , tired ,angry cabin crew , engineers ,pilots bla bla. .......... but hey we have 600 movies and brand new shiny uniforms for the cabin crew , our executives stay in top shape using their private 'floor' with running track etc.
talk about dropping the ball
I wish the ostriches would take their damn heads out off the sand.
sadly so do our passengers and tourists to dubai. for many its an experience they do only once .
the arrogance and greed is flowing over into the product , no longer winning awards . on time performance that is non existant , tired ,angry cabin crew , engineers ,pilots bla bla. .......... but hey we have 600 movies and brand new shiny uniforms for the cabin crew , our executives stay in top shape using their private 'floor' with running track etc.
talk about dropping the ball
I wish the ostriches would take their damn heads out off the sand.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Isn't there an old truism in business (I think it goes back to the days of Dale Carnegie) that the first sign that a corporation is in decline is when it builds itself an edifice for its HQ?
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: AUSTRALIA - CHINA STHN
Age: 59
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good one!
Wiley - you mean 'the hive' ??
I try to stay out of there as much as possible - ever try to find anyone there yet!!!
If they are looking for productivity why not put everything on the table but.... they dont want to do that ... like job share/basings/remote rosters/temp basing etc etc.... because it is easier to throw bone head ideas at us..
How come these dudes have not got the single engine taxi ban on the back blocks lifted yet...or am I out of touch??
The other day riding brakes to keep the speed down to '10 knots + GPS drift error of course... I was taught thirty years ago using thrust against brakes was bad technique but what would I know...that might produce abetter result than the last diatribe.
endof.
I try to stay out of there as much as possible - ever try to find anyone there yet!!!
If they are looking for productivity why not put everything on the table but.... they dont want to do that ... like job share/basings/remote rosters/temp basing etc etc.... because it is easier to throw bone head ideas at us..
How come these dudes have not got the single engine taxi ban on the back blocks lifted yet...or am I out of touch??
The other day riding brakes to keep the speed down to '10 knots + GPS drift error of course... I was taught thirty years ago using thrust against brakes was bad technique but what would I know...that might produce abetter result than the last diatribe.
endof.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: dubai
Posts: 375
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe upper management has effectively utilized a technique to avoid fixing problems. They make it so difficult for anyone to address an issue, that eventually most people give up. Try calling HQ regarding ANYTHING and you will see what I mean. No one answers the phone, some messages boxes are left filled so we cannot even leave a message and then there is the general attitude the office dwellers have when dealing with us.
No one is accountable. The gibberish I have listened to from Crew Control over the past few weeks would confuse a linguist. I have also been dealing with a 2 1/2 year old problem that has taken me from feeling annoyed, to complete frustration, to anger and now it is well into the comedy phase. Last week when I tried contacting the FDM for over an hour regarding an issue, I finally gave up.
The management mantra is to confuse and aggravate us to the point we cave in and give up the battle. This is an effective technique for incompetent managers to hide their deficiencies. No wonder the likes of The Talking Horse/TCAS/FM's and well basically anyone in a mid-level management position, is useless at their job. They are probably faced with similar problems, and they gave up trying years ago. Although, I suspect many were hired only after the xrays revealed their lack of a spine.
There has been an attitudinal shift in HQ regarding pilots and cabin crew in general. It is a negative one. I said this before the latest AD debacle and I think we are only now seeing the affects. It will get worse, I am certain of it.
No one is accountable. The gibberish I have listened to from Crew Control over the past few weeks would confuse a linguist. I have also been dealing with a 2 1/2 year old problem that has taken me from feeling annoyed, to complete frustration, to anger and now it is well into the comedy phase. Last week when I tried contacting the FDM for over an hour regarding an issue, I finally gave up.
The management mantra is to confuse and aggravate us to the point we cave in and give up the battle. This is an effective technique for incompetent managers to hide their deficiencies. No wonder the likes of The Talking Horse/TCAS/FM's and well basically anyone in a mid-level management position, is useless at their job. They are probably faced with similar problems, and they gave up trying years ago. Although, I suspect many were hired only after the xrays revealed their lack of a spine.
There has been an attitudinal shift in HQ regarding pilots and cabin crew in general. It is a negative one. I said this before the latest AD debacle and I think we are only now seeing the affects. It will get worse, I am certain of it.
Just read the latest fleet up-date.
It just gets better, AD's can now be rostered up to 6pm by crew control, not 5pm as it says in the FOM...and that's a quote....sorry unless we get a FCI stating that they can go and get stuffed (nearly wrote fecked
).
These fleet updates,e-mails, newsletters are an absolute joke. Changes to policy, FOM ,FCTM all sent by un-approved means.
Changes are supposed to come by FCI, FCN or Notam. Something which the authority has seen or has some sort of say in, not from the tea boys weekly e-mail.
It just gets better, AD's can now be rostered up to 6pm by crew control, not 5pm as it says in the FOM...and that's a quote....sorry unless we get a FCI stating that they can go and get stuffed (nearly wrote fecked
). These fleet updates,e-mails, newsletters are an absolute joke. Changes to policy, FOM ,FCTM all sent by un-approved means.
Changes are supposed to come by FCI, FCN or Notam. Something which the authority has seen or has some sort of say in, not from the tea boys weekly e-mail.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: middle east
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have been with EK for 6+ years and have never felt the need to express my displeasure to management before, however enough is enough. Have just sent my feelings through to Ed by way of an Email. I don't expect a reply ( more like a phone call for tea and biscuits ) but I hope it makes him think.
I urge all the rest of you that sit and read this thread to actually do something positive and put pen to paper, don't make it threatening or rude, just list your grievances and ask for an explanation.
The more people that write the more he may realise the strength of feeling amongst his pilots.
I urge all the rest of you that sit and read this thread to actually do something positive and put pen to paper, don't make it threatening or rude, just list your grievances and ask for an explanation.
The more people that write the more he may realise the strength of feeling amongst his pilots.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's widely acknowledged in management schools that one of the more effective styles of management is "MBWA", or "Management By Walking Around" - i.e., the boss spends quite a bit of his day on the shop floor, visible to his troops, stopping to speak for a few moments with even the lowliest toilet cleaner, (which, let's face it, would appear to be about where we pilots stand on the food chain in the eyes of some up there on the "Tent(h) Floor" – [which I know is actually on the 8th Floor – or is it the 6th? - but I do rather like the “Tent Floor’ term and all that it implies]).
Allied to this style of management is the rather vital requirement that the manager practising this style of management be approachable. The lowly toilet cleaner, if he has a complaint or a suggestion to improve the way he cleans the oongah off the S-Bend, must feel that he can speak freely to the manager without fear of punishment or retribution.
A.S., to his credit, attempted a very tentative dip of his toes in the MBWA pool in his very early days by turning up at Flight Planning before office hours a few times. I haven’t seen him doing so in quite a while, but who knows, he may still do so, for how in the world would you know in the abomination of a Flight Planning setup the Wunderkinder have created for us now, which seems to have been consciously designed so that pilots on one flight will not "waste the company's time" (or should that be "steal" said company time?) by even encountering another pilot doing another service.
EK Management’s style has been the direct antithesis of MBWA for as long as I’ve been here. Way back when, long before the CBC, when our lockers resided at the cargo village roundabout, when they did the refurb. that moved us from the far side of the building to around the front, they specifically blocked off a corridor so that pilots would not be able to walk by the Flight Ops offices. I mentioned the folly of this move to the man who filled EGT’s position in those days and his reply was illuminating: “Oh goodness gracious me no, we don’t want pilots dropping in to the office all day wasting our time.”
I can’t agree with mensaboy’s assessment that everyone on the “Tent Floor” is incompetent. I’d be guessing that out on the golf course, out of earshot of Head Office, AS and Mr Ed are as appalled by this patently silly AD rule as we are. It’s just that they’ve both learned that there’s only one result for a senior manager who tells the Emperor his new clothes are a touch on the diaphanous side, a form of MBWA called MBWO - the ‘O’ as in ‘Out’.
Allied to this style of management is the rather vital requirement that the manager practising this style of management be approachable. The lowly toilet cleaner, if he has a complaint or a suggestion to improve the way he cleans the oongah off the S-Bend, must feel that he can speak freely to the manager without fear of punishment or retribution.
A.S., to his credit, attempted a very tentative dip of his toes in the MBWA pool in his very early days by turning up at Flight Planning before office hours a few times. I haven’t seen him doing so in quite a while, but who knows, he may still do so, for how in the world would you know in the abomination of a Flight Planning setup the Wunderkinder have created for us now, which seems to have been consciously designed so that pilots on one flight will not "waste the company's time" (or should that be "steal" said company time?) by even encountering another pilot doing another service.
EK Management’s style has been the direct antithesis of MBWA for as long as I’ve been here. Way back when, long before the CBC, when our lockers resided at the cargo village roundabout, when they did the refurb. that moved us from the far side of the building to around the front, they specifically blocked off a corridor so that pilots would not be able to walk by the Flight Ops offices. I mentioned the folly of this move to the man who filled EGT’s position in those days and his reply was illuminating: “Oh goodness gracious me no, we don’t want pilots dropping in to the office all day wasting our time.”
I can’t agree with mensaboy’s assessment that everyone on the “Tent Floor” is incompetent. I’d be guessing that out on the golf course, out of earshot of Head Office, AS and Mr Ed are as appalled by this patently silly AD rule as we are. It’s just that they’ve both learned that there’s only one result for a senior manager who tells the Emperor his new clothes are a touch on the diaphanous side, a form of MBWA called MBWO - the ‘O’ as in ‘Out’.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: pit
Posts: 314
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just checked the ekallpilots group and read EDs answer to a good fellow soul's mail.
Well, there goes the well intended "we should all politely vent our frustrations to management, maybe......"
It is painfully clear now, that fear reigns in the upper floors. They will not listen for the slightest second as they just became aware, that the crisis will hit them first. EK will need pilots to move aircraft, but they don't need morons in the office. Unless they carry a whip and play drill sergeants.
Two lessons we learned today:
Our bosses have their pants down to their ankles out of fear for their job. Their only concern is to be usefull by proving that the blame lies further down. Nothing to be excpected from this side but the boot.
EK has returned to the leadership model of their ancestors. Divide and rule at its purest. Nothing to be expected from their side but the blame.
What to do?
I no longer know. Write and protest? Futile, see above.
My earlier proposition to show them failure by statistic? Futile. They are incapable of interpretation. Arrogance precedes the great fall.
Unfortunately they will miss this huge opportunity to gain a larger piece of the pie, even if it gets smaller. They will go down as one of the first, as the outside world will turn admiration into malicious pleasure.
Set up your way out.
Well, there goes the well intended "we should all politely vent our frustrations to management, maybe......"
It is painfully clear now, that fear reigns in the upper floors. They will not listen for the slightest second as they just became aware, that the crisis will hit them first. EK will need pilots to move aircraft, but they don't need morons in the office. Unless they carry a whip and play drill sergeants.
Two lessons we learned today:
Our bosses have their pants down to their ankles out of fear for their job. Their only concern is to be usefull by proving that the blame lies further down. Nothing to be excpected from this side but the boot.
EK has returned to the leadership model of their ancestors. Divide and rule at its purest. Nothing to be expected from their side but the blame.
What to do?
I no longer know. Write and protest? Futile, see above.
My earlier proposition to show them failure by statistic? Futile. They are incapable of interpretation. Arrogance precedes the great fall.
Unfortunately they will miss this huge opportunity to gain a larger piece of the pie, even if it gets smaller. They will go down as one of the first, as the outside world will turn admiration into malicious pleasure.
Set up your way out.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having just read the same reply from Mr Ed, perhaps I should redraft the last paragraph of my earlier post, if not delete it.
I'm reminded why I decided quite some years ago that it was useless writing reports to management.
I'm reminded why I decided quite some years ago that it was useless writing reports to management.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Raincoast
Posts: 215
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ladies 'n Gents
We have ou'selves a little Mexican Standoff brewin' here...
145 QRH - I agree with you wholeheartedly Sir! No AD assignments upon making a telephone call at 1800 instead of 1700. Our good hearted A380 CP has made an unintentional error here... He must not be obeyed! The FOM rules here 'n for our brethren who don't seem to know or care: The FOM can only be modified by an FCI (or formal FOM amendment or re-issue)... NOT a memo, fleet update, telephone conversation, FCN, email, personal snail mail, tea 'n bikkies, or smoke signal. The reason management ain't issuin' an FCI is because they go to the DGCAA as part of the FOM protocol... figger the consequneces 'a that out yerselves.
Wiley - MBWA is an old style trick 'n most a us old timers ain't ever bought in to. Hell, when AS did it, ya couldn't even see him o'er the counter top! It's patronisin' as hell and this kinda perverted noblesse oblige is either not understood fer what it is by those too dumb ta know better or despised by those o' us who do as the crass oportunism it really is... it was used effectively in Commonwealth Armed Forces, mostly on tha' ground and trench monkey types, with good effect ta raise morale. I seen it a few times in various companies o'er tha years. It's not appropriate fer professional pilots. But, who says that this company thinks we're professionals when our immediate AB fleet mangler is a former BA ground agent and airplane wrench monkey? These kindsa messages within' the message are what really count. Like the great comms theorist Marshal McLuhan said: "It's the medium that is the message..."
Well, I'm off ta git my sense a hope restored an maybe my AUW reduced by a few grams... heh heh heh... I reckon' it's a good night fer a few glasses a heavy fuel and some good 'ol Hank. Maybe a little ol' CSNY jes' ta get a little a that ol' feelin' back... HOPE that is, it's damn elusive 'round here these days.
happy contrails!
We have ou'selves a little Mexican Standoff brewin' here...
145 QRH - I agree with you wholeheartedly Sir! No AD assignments upon making a telephone call at 1800 instead of 1700. Our good hearted A380 CP has made an unintentional error here... He must not be obeyed! The FOM rules here 'n for our brethren who don't seem to know or care: The FOM can only be modified by an FCI (or formal FOM amendment or re-issue)... NOT a memo, fleet update, telephone conversation, FCN, email, personal snail mail, tea 'n bikkies, or smoke signal. The reason management ain't issuin' an FCI is because they go to the DGCAA as part of the FOM protocol... figger the consequneces 'a that out yerselves.
Wiley - MBWA is an old style trick 'n most a us old timers ain't ever bought in to. Hell, when AS did it, ya couldn't even see him o'er the counter top! It's patronisin' as hell and this kinda perverted noblesse oblige is either not understood fer what it is by those too dumb ta know better or despised by those o' us who do as the crass oportunism it really is... it was used effectively in Commonwealth Armed Forces, mostly on tha' ground and trench monkey types, with good effect ta raise morale. I seen it a few times in various companies o'er tha years. It's not appropriate fer professional pilots. But, who says that this company thinks we're professionals when our immediate AB fleet mangler is a former BA ground agent and airplane wrench monkey? These kindsa messages within' the message are what really count. Like the great comms theorist Marshal McLuhan said: "It's the medium that is the message..."
Well, I'm off ta git my sense a hope restored an maybe my AUW reduced by a few grams... heh heh heh... I reckon' it's a good night fer a few glasses a heavy fuel and some good 'ol Hank. Maybe a little ol' CSNY jes' ta get a little a that ol' feelin' back... HOPE that is, it's damn elusive 'round here these days.
happy contrails!
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: middle east
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
could someone post Ed's reply as shown on the EKallpilots forum so that those that doen't subscribe get an insight into the way he thinks.
thanks in advance
Don't worry - I've read it now.
thanks in advance
Don't worry - I've read it now.
Last edited by mud mover; 30th Jan 2009 at 16:41.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Europe
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To the one considering posting Ed reply :
It is very tempting to post his ridiculous reply but don't know if it is very safe it do this. Remember there is a confidentiality clause in the FOM. Wouldn't be surprised if they'd spend a million or 2 to find out who did it after the showdown of who is in charge at EK...
To anyone considering joining EK in the future. Make sure you read last week posts about the coup by our dear management.
Life is pretty different now, with the new roster rules in place. When the dark clouds are gone, I'm outta here.
No thanks : no slavery for me.
To anyone considering joining EK in the future. Make sure you read last week posts about the coup by our dear management.
Life is pretty different now, with the new roster rules in place. When the dark clouds are gone, I'm outta here.
No thanks : no slavery for me.
For those paranoid amongst you, fear not, they would have to get a court order from a US judge. Its been on the Yahoogroups, so is in the public domain anyhow.
EGGW
EGGW
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've said it before......... I think many people in EK make the mistake of thinking that the management give a sh*t about us, they don't..... simple as that, they are just doing as they are told to protect their meesly jobs.
I have seen Mr. Ed in a meeting and he is as big a kn*b as we think he is, but it's AAR that's behind all this
I have seen Mr. Ed in a meeting and he is as big a kn*b as we think he is, but it's AAR that's behind all this
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: evicted
Posts: 339
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
could someone post Ed's reply as shown on the EKallpilots forum so that those that doen't subscribe get an insight into the way he thinks.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Dreamland
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
kingoftheslipstream
You bring up good points regarding the issue of FOM changes being incorrectly implemented and enforced by FLT OPS mismanagement.
Have you raised or considered raising ASRs on these violations in order to force their attention to the UAE GCAA?
You bring up good points regarding the issue of FOM changes being incorrectly implemented and enforced by FLT OPS mismanagement.
Have you raised or considered raising ASRs on these violations in order to force their attention to the UAE GCAA?
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,451
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It would appear that the e-gate at the new HQ is actually a Stargate, and the reason there's a shortage of accommodation for newly hired pilots is that Dr Elizabeth Weir and her SG companions have yet to drain the new wing at Atlantis. (Not the Atlantis out on the end of the Palms, but the interplanatary Atlantis - where, apparently, we all live.)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 563
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just as an aside, if the company is truly fat on pilots, not the BMI35 type, then why is it running two recruitment groups this week on 1st and 2nd Feb.
Uncle Adel is pissed off and has spat his dummy, thats all
Uncle Adel is pissed off and has spat his dummy, thats all