Middle East Many expats still flying in Knoteetingham. Regional issues can be discussed here.

Saudia

Old 5th Sep 2016, 06:10
  #1401 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
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Originally Posted by mutt View Post
50% of the saudi population is under the age of 25, the concept of saudiization is to provide jobs for them.
And the unemployment rate in this group is above 25%. So "Saudiization" does make sense. If this is the case for the airline business is another question.

Last edited by ExDubai; 5th Sep 2016 at 07:55.
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Old 5th Sep 2016, 06:48
  #1402 (permalink)  
 
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Easiest way to achieve Saudiization of the pilot workforce would be to cancel the 5 days off in a row and cancel overtime
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Old 5th Sep 2016, 08:15
  #1403 (permalink)  
 
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Here in lies the problem to the answer.

Creating the jobs is all well and good. Getting the Saudis to actually do the work is a completely different issue.

I remember a few years back an edict that all taxis would be driven by Saudis. I think it had a lead in of 3 months. Never happened.
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Old 5th Sep 2016, 19:44
  #1404 (permalink)  
 
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The Arab News article quotes the Director General that there are 3000 Saudi trainee pilots abroad. If that is accurate then would 2020 not be realistic?
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Old 6th Sep 2016, 05:29
  #1405 (permalink)  
 
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Did they ever mention saudization of cabin crew?
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Old 6th Sep 2016, 05:54
  #1406 (permalink)  
 
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I think the expat cabin crew are safe.

Igig: 2020 is possibly realistic if Saudi Arabia operated an EASA style operation but in fact the Saudi system is experience based and follows the FAA model. The Saudia management may have targets but currently don't have the power to force significant change on GACA. The flow of cadets in to Saudia will be relatively slow especially compared to companies in Europe like Easyjet or Ryanair, they will always want to keep average experience levels comparable with equivalent part 121 FAA Airlines. So of course you have vested interests in Saudi Arabia; GACA being one, Saudi management being another (and even differing factions within), the government a third, and they all have their power and priority which often conflicts.

No question though Saudiization is important to them and it will come at some point, especially if there is a period of stagnation in growth of the airline.
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Old 6th Sep 2016, 07:06
  #1407 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by polax52 View Post
I think the expat cabin crew are safe.
For sure, try to imagine on of those male desert roses serving tea and coffee
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Old 6th Sep 2016, 09:59
  #1408 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Originally Posted by Cliff Secord View Post
Quick question. This block of 5 days that keeps getting mentioned. I take it you actually have more off a month in total? 1-2 days off between trips? I don't know the GACA regs but take it it's not 25 days of work with pure min rest between and one set of 5 days off?
for the 777 sometimes its more than 5 (this month i got six) but yes you dont fly with minimum rest.You get 2 D.O in a row, sometimes 3,sometimes 36h .With the full implementation (in block hours per 28 days) of 117 from September they should be realy carefull.No more waivers either from the management or from GACA.An average line on the 777 has 11-13 days off
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Old 6th Sep 2016, 10:01
  #1409 (permalink)  
 
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Nope no NEO ,only CEO
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Old 6th Sep 2016, 21:52
  #1410 (permalink)  
 
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Plenty of changes happening in the airline. They really have to ramp up the training. With 6-12 months of transition or initial training, Saudiization seems like a mirage.
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Old 7th Sep 2016, 16:10
  #1411 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ExDubai View Post
For sure, try to imagine on of those male desert roses serving tea and coffee
Buhahahah....if they decide to unpark themselves from the Business/First class seats.
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Old 18th Sep 2016, 13:34
  #1412 (permalink)  
 
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Words fail me !
Batch of 8 FO's and 8 Captains.
Last month of training, and my mate tells me as of yesterday only ONE Captain left and 3 FO's struggling.
That's a 25% survival rate now
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Old 19th Sep 2016, 06:02
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Originally Posted by King on a Wing View Post
Words fail me !
Batch of 8 FO's and 8 Captains.
Last month of training, and my mate tells me as of yesterday only ONE Captain left and 3 FO's struggling.
That's a 25% survival rate now
What fleet?
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Old 19th Sep 2016, 11:03
  #1414 (permalink)  
 
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I believe it's on all fleets now.
About 25-50% of the candidates joining are still in the country by the end of the training...!
Either terminated or left of their own will or ( in a couple of cases ) completed training AND THEN left for home. Simply didn't like it.
Either way, I think it's insane.
Huge failure/departure rate.
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Old 22nd Sep 2016, 00:52
  #1415 (permalink)  
 
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What stage of training king ?

Yes, Training is ridiculous now. They hired too many pilots and don't know what to do with them. The training department absolutely has no clue as to which training should get priority. No sim slots, No IPs and so on. They never hired so many pilots in the past it seems. Correct me if I'm wrong.
New IPs wait for months together for GACA observation, then few more months for observation flights by current IPs. Looks like even a IP training takes 6-12 months.

MAS pilots have spoilt the whole equation.


Almost all first officers in my batch are frustrated. With the slow training, endless Second officer flights, non stop orals, unnecessary paper work etc and the system as such.
What else can you expect ?! Attrition obviously! But cases of termination are very rare. They give 3 chances unless someone has a serious attitude problem.

Only the Captain training is on right pace. That too not upto the industry standards.
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Old 22nd Sep 2016, 04:36
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That too not upto the industry standards.
But when people show up who cant fly a VOR approach in V/S, what do you expect?
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Old 22nd Sep 2016, 13:02
  #1417 (permalink)  
 
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Is it ? But that doesn't justify a 12 month training for someone who can fly.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 10:35
  #1418 (permalink)  
 
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Saudi Gazette report

RIYADH — Minister of Transportation Sulaiman Al-Hamdan announced the addition of 63 new aircraft to Saudi Arabian Airlines’ existing fleet. Al-Hamdan made the announcement on the Kingdom’s National Day.

“The new airplanes will be used for passenger transport. The ministry has a strategic plan to expand its services and improve the quality of these services.

The airplanes will be used on national and international routes. The ministry has also contracted with several partners through the General Authority of Civil Aviation to expand and grow in order to achieve its goals under its strategic plan,” said the source.

Saudia’s Director General Saleh Al-Jasser said the new agreements of the General Authority of Civil Aviation enlisted the ownership of 63 new airplanes.

“We have obtained 15 Boeing 777-300ER, 13 Boeing 787 Dreamliner and 35 Airbus New Generation A320/A321-neo planes.

The airlines signed an agreement last year with Airbus to purchase 50 A330 regional and A320 aircraft.

The agreement was signed last year in Paris in the presence of Deputy Crown Prince and Minister of Defense Muhammad Bin Salman,” said Al-Jasser.

He said the airline received the airplanes last month.

“The airline signed agreements this year and the year before for the purchase of a total of 113 new airplanes with advanced technological features.

The airline will receive four airplanes of model B787-9 in 2017,” said Al-Jasser.
Who is going to FLY THEM?
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 14:33
  #1419 (permalink)  
rdr
 
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Mutt, I admire your doggedness. Stay well.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 18:18
  #1420 (permalink)  
 
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Apparently these orders represent the filling out of 200 aircraft by 2020.

But, will any of them end up at flyadeal?

Aviation Tribune provides a little more clarity:

Saudi Arabian Airlines will acquire 63 aircraft as part of a fleet expansion and modernization program.

His Excellency the Minister of Transport, Chairman of the Board of General Authority of Civil Aviation and Chairman of the Board of Saudi Arabian Airlines, Mr. Sulaiman Alhamdan announced the approval by Saudia’s Board of Directors of Saudia’s fleet plan.

Alhamdan further stated:

“It is my pleasure to announce that the national carrier has acquired 63 new aircraft as part of its fleet expansion and modernization plan reflecting the strength of our national economy.”

He stressed that this new acquisition will support the national carrier’s operating plans for domestic and international markets and its ambitious transformation program that was approved and supported by the Board as many of its initiatives and the objectives of its strategic plan are being carried out.

Saudia’s Director General Engineer Saleh Aljasser elaborated that this new acquisition includes 15 Boeing 777-300ER’s, 13 Boeing 787’s and 35 Airbus A320/A321neo.

These aircraft are in addition to the 50 Airbus aircraft (A330 Regional and A320) that Saudia signed for last year in Paris.

He further added:

“Saudia within two years has signed agreements to acquire 113 aircraft, in line with its fleet renewal and expansion initiative which is part of the Transformation Program that was launched last year to double in seven years what has been achieved in 70 years, and includes several other initiatives starting with investment in our people, upgrade operational efficiency and effectiveness, focus on total customer experience, optimize the network and creating distinctive products for our guests. Several of the initiatives have already been executed and some are in the process so that by 2020 we will reach our targets of a fleet of 200 aircraft, 1000 daily flights and 45 million annual passengers.”

Next year will witness the delivery of thirty aircraft, the highest number in the history of the airline, 22 of which are wide-body aircraft (777-300ER, 787-9 and A330R), while within the last 4 months of this year 2016 Saudia is receiving 25 aircraft, 21 of which are wide-body in addition to the four aircraft it received earlier this year bringing the total deliveries in 2016 to 29 aircraft.

He further added that as part of the fleet renewal, several aircraft will be taken out of service according to a phase-out plan that takes in consideration the delivery of new aircraft.

Four 747-400 aircraft have been phased-out this year, and the phase-out of the Embraer 170 fleet of 15 aircraft is ongoing and will be completed by the end of this year.

Additionally, Saudia will phase-out five units from its Boeing 777-200 fleet of 23 aircraft, with the remaining 18 scheduled to be phased-out before the end of 2017.

The airline’s early generation of A320 aircraft will be phased-out over the next two years.

Mr. Aljasser emphasized that these agreements to acquire new aircraft was being accompanied by other initiatives to train and prepare its national manpower to operate and maintain this fleet. This is reflected in the agreement Saudia signed with the Ministry of Education for 5000 scholarships to send Saudi students to study abroad aviation sciences and maintenance.
Sure sounds like a lot of aircraft to crew within a short amount of tme.
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