Gulf Air Developments
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 319
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From: Manchester
Flying into a war zone
Most govts right around the world are advising against all travel to Iraq for the obvious reasons.
I don't think it's fair on pilots with families to be flying into a war zone, and I hope nobody is bullied into doing so against their wishes. Any take ups should be completely voluntary.
I don't think it's fair on pilots with families to be flying into a war zone, and I hope nobody is bullied into doing so against their wishes. Any take ups should be completely voluntary.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 199
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From: neverland
we officially work for an airline that does not give 2 !!!!s about our well being!!
i am amazed at the total lack of respect for us! we are basically workers to them and that is how we are being treated!
i am amazed at the total lack of respect for us! we are basically workers to them and that is how we are being treated!
Joined: Nov 1999
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From: "como todo buen piloto... mujeriego y borracho"
I might have to eat my words some day, but . . .
This may be one of those very rare instances of where the Government of Bahrain and Gulf Air were able to get traffic rights and set up operations before the regional competition. The rebuilding of Iraq will be the next gold mine. Check out the fares on the Gulf Air website-- they are anything but a give-away.
The guinea pigs, Royal Jordanian and Turkish have already been doing Iraq operations for a while. I also remember with some misgivings the pictures of the DHL Airbus A300 with the wingtip blown off. However, this was over 4 years ago, and the situation has changed in Iraq over those years. For sure, I prefer Bangkok over Baghdad as my holiday destination, but there is demand for service. As for a war zone, I am increasingly starting to wonder about some of the "friendly" places we fly to, like Peshawar, Lahore and Islamabad. I certainly don't want to go into town at any of these places either and the same would hold true for any of the new "exciting" destinations.
In any case, I suspect that within the year Bahrain Air, Emirates and possibly Qatar Airways and Etihad tails will also be present at the Baghdad International Airport and other airports in the country. On the upside of the equation, air transportation plays a positive roll in the development of a country. As commerce increases, Iraq will continue to stabilize. Hopefully Gulf Air will make some good revenue along the way.
The challenge at the moment, it would seem, is for Gulf Air to not ignore its crews which will operate into Iraq and to positively address their legitimate concerns.
This may be one of those very rare instances of where the Government of Bahrain and Gulf Air were able to get traffic rights and set up operations before the regional competition. The rebuilding of Iraq will be the next gold mine. Check out the fares on the Gulf Air website-- they are anything but a give-away.
The guinea pigs, Royal Jordanian and Turkish have already been doing Iraq operations for a while. I also remember with some misgivings the pictures of the DHL Airbus A300 with the wingtip blown off. However, this was over 4 years ago, and the situation has changed in Iraq over those years. For sure, I prefer Bangkok over Baghdad as my holiday destination, but there is demand for service. As for a war zone, I am increasingly starting to wonder about some of the "friendly" places we fly to, like Peshawar, Lahore and Islamabad. I certainly don't want to go into town at any of these places either and the same would hold true for any of the new "exciting" destinations.
In any case, I suspect that within the year Bahrain Air, Emirates and possibly Qatar Airways and Etihad tails will also be present at the Baghdad International Airport and other airports in the country. On the upside of the equation, air transportation plays a positive roll in the development of a country. As commerce increases, Iraq will continue to stabilize. Hopefully Gulf Air will make some good revenue along the way.
The challenge at the moment, it would seem, is for Gulf Air to not ignore its crews which will operate into Iraq and to positively address their legitimate concerns.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 600
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From: Havana
PJ
This may be one of those very rare instances of where the Government of Bahrain and Gulf Air were able to get traffic rights and set up operations before the regional competition
Remember, Iraq is still considered a war zone by the majority of responsible governments in the world. Perhaps the regional competition is being careful not to rely on information from private US 'security contractors' like Sabre.
No, I don't think this some kind of coup or one up on the competition, this is a very serious issue and the decision should not be taken lightly. Yes, it is possible that nothing will happen, on the other hand...
By the way, does your Life Insurance and your mortagage insurance cover allow you to go to a war-zone, mine does not.
Cheers and good luck
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 199
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From: neverland
well stated Che, guys lets be honest the real problem is no one can ensure anything in Iraq. And that is a FACT. just open the paper look at some things going on and it is obvious that Iraq is still a rapidly changing environment that is not secure. Also if we do end up flying there is GF capable of canceling flights and making adjustments on a daily basis due to ever changing safety risks? I really hope that I am wrong but this has a horrible stench about it especially with the Americans leaving now and increased risks in my opinion. I may be wrong, but I am not testing my theory personally guaranteed!
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 104
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From: Always in the air
Che, you wrote:
"Remember, Iraq is still considered a war zone by the majority of responsible governments in the world. Perhaps the regional competition is being careful not to rely on information from private US 'security contractors' like Sabre."
I tried very hard to resist to post a message in this thread.
But, reading the post above, I am wondering about what "responsible governments" means!
My interpretation of resposible governments is that, yes they are responsible for all this mess in the area!. So they are the last to talk about security and safety in the area.
Said that, I am not keen to go there, but I believe that since there are commercial airlines going already there, we will not the first to set foot in Bagdad.
"Remember, Iraq is still considered a war zone by the majority of responsible governments in the world. Perhaps the regional competition is being careful not to rely on information from private US 'security contractors' like Sabre."
I tried very hard to resist to post a message in this thread.
But, reading the post above, I am wondering about what "responsible governments" means!
My interpretation of resposible governments is that, yes they are responsible for all this mess in the area!. So they are the last to talk about security and safety in the area.
Said that, I am not keen to go there, but I believe that since there are commercial airlines going already there, we will not the first to set foot in Bagdad.
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 199
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From: neverland
"My interpretation of resposible governments is that, yes they are responsible for all this mess in the area!"
to be honest this is not a political site who really cares why, i am more interested in SAFETY and that is my concern. The facts speak for themselves. Almost all governments say do not travel and some specifically state the airport is a target. So i guess GF safety audit team are real safety experts that outweigh most governments
to be honest this is not a political site who really cares why, i am more interested in SAFETY and that is my concern. The facts speak for themselves. Almost all governments say do not travel and some specifically state the airport is a target. So i guess GF safety audit team are real safety experts that outweigh most governments
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 158
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From: 39000 FT
Amazing
As per all other GF routes, as soon as the local competition starts the Baghdad run GF will fade into half hearted loads because of its crap aircraft and service. GF will have a short lived monopoly from the gulf -12 months at best. Better than nothing.
"Beggers (read GF) can't be choosers"
Maybe they can fly their old A340's into Iraq have them blown up and claim insurance and thus renew their fleet
Oddy
"Beggers (read GF) can't be choosers"
Maybe they can fly their old A340's into Iraq have them blown up and claim insurance and thus renew their fleet
Oddy
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 628
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From: Australia
I'll have to agree with Panama Jack on this one. Apart from a buck to be made, servicing Iraq will be an integral part of the regions recovery and is most certainly a catalyst for Iraq's security and economic recovery.
Here is an important point worth pondering. What if GF and RJ were the only carriers granted air services exclusivity as just reward for operating there? Then it becomes a bit of a gold mine. I know, wishful thinking but these things tend to happen around this part of the world.
The key problem remains. Is it safe 'enough' to operate there? How was this decided? What individuals (names, ranks, departments) are involved with this safety audit team that made the safety assessment? Let no one 'hide' as this is a most serious matter for pilots, especially those whose own personal insurances are null and void should they operate to 'war zone' classified places. Will pilots be asked to volunteer? Or will they simply be suspended or sacked for refusing?
Here is an important point worth pondering. What if GF and RJ were the only carriers granted air services exclusivity as just reward for operating there? Then it becomes a bit of a gold mine. I know, wishful thinking but these things tend to happen around this part of the world.
The key problem remains. Is it safe 'enough' to operate there? How was this decided? What individuals (names, ranks, departments) are involved with this safety audit team that made the safety assessment? Let no one 'hide' as this is a most serious matter for pilots, especially those whose own personal insurances are null and void should they operate to 'war zone' classified places. Will pilots be asked to volunteer? Or will they simply be suspended or sacked for refusing?
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 104
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From: Always in the air
Desert:
"So i guess GF safety audit team are real safety experts that outweigh most governments"
My post was political, and yours is not?
Most governments?
Hmmmm
The ones that ...etc etc ?
wow.
And read the rest of my post, please ...
"So i guess GF safety audit team are real safety experts that outweigh most governments"
My post was political, and yours is not?
Most governments?
Hmmmm
The ones that ...etc etc ?
wow.
And read the rest of my post, please ...
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 199
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From: neverland
daidalos:
this is not a slam but look at it from a different perspective. by most governments i mean most governments. i am not sure what u are getting at? Iraq civilian operations are dangerous. So does not matter about "The ones that ...etc etc ?". This is entirely a different issue. Safety in Airline Operations in a war zone is the issue and to me it is obvious that this poses risks.
this is not a slam but look at it from a different perspective. by most governments i mean most governments. i am not sure what u are getting at? Iraq civilian operations are dangerous. So does not matter about "The ones that ...etc etc ?". This is entirely a different issue. Safety in Airline Operations in a war zone is the issue and to me it is obvious that this poses risks.
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 600
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From: Havana
daidolos
My interpretation of resposible governments is that, yes they are responsible for all this mess in the area!. So they are the last to talk about security and safety in the area.
You of course are free to ignore your own and others if you feel that they do not paint an accurate picture.
Good luck in choosing.
Last edited by Che Guevara; 8th August 2009 at 04:49.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 152
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From: Asia
As Fubaliera pointed out, negociate for a better deal but also don't forget the approach is to Baghdad is terrible and will require very sharp manoeuvring (Screw driver) which is going to be fun I guess!
Good Luck
Good Luck
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 51
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From: Everywhere
nice points guys.Maybe GF (as well as bahrain) have some kind of a deal with the US army to keep the planes flying there to be safe? the airline which has more than 50 years of experience could not make an immature decisione like that.
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 152
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From: Asia
nice points guys.Maybe GF (as well as bahrain) have some kind of a deal with the US army to keep the planes flying there to be safe? the airline which has more than 50 years of experience could not make an immature decisione like that.
Sorry mate but you speak like UglyRaedIIII (RELOADED)!