Flight deck positions at FlyDubai Master Thread - Merged
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BMI
ok well in that case even EK shouldn't have BMI 30 limit because GCAA will give cat 1 up to BMI 35, and even above BMI35 but you may be subject to cardio test.
Yet EK has hard limit of BMI 30 or waist circumference of 102cm.
So does anyone know what FZ is? Since EK really does seem to have company limit.
Yet EK has hard limit of BMI 30 or waist circumference of 102cm.
So does anyone know what FZ is? Since EK really does seem to have company limit.
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you are happy...
If you are happy to sign a bond for 5 years and sign to say you WILL go to any war zone as standard (so no extra pay) the FZ could be the place for you!
Command is certainly not as advertised! Many have gone past 3,4, and almost 5 years without an upgrade. It is not a given! The places you will fly to include some very dangerous places!
You will get no medals for bravery and if you screw up it's your head on the chopping block. I would suggest anyone really interested to ask LOTS of questions! Many people are waiting for their bond to expire before they exit the door!
Command is certainly not as advertised! Many have gone past 3,4, and almost 5 years without an upgrade. It is not a given! The places you will fly to include some very dangerous places!
You will get no medals for bravery and if you screw up it's your head on the chopping block. I would suggest anyone really interested to ask LOTS of questions! Many people are waiting for their bond to expire before they exit the door!
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Sandy lane
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Flydubai operates in to War Zones but how many aircraft have they lost to date due to that aspect of their business? Answer 0
MH17 was shot down
German Wings was deliberately crashed
A few ATRs in Asia went down recently
Are you really that much safer in other airlines?
I get the point that it's not pleasant but the stats suggest that you will be ok.
I think personally more would leave because of the lifestyle in Dubai not to mention costs.
Realistically you need about 60,000 AED to live comfortably in Dubai today....
MH17 was shot down
German Wings was deliberately crashed
A few ATRs in Asia went down recently
Are you really that much safer in other airlines?
I get the point that it's not pleasant but the stats suggest that you will be ok.
I think personally more would leave because of the lifestyle in Dubai not to mention costs.
Realistically you need about 60,000 AED to live comfortably in Dubai today....
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BMI
Anyone got any input as to my last post?
""ok well in that case even EK shouldn't have BMI 30 limit because GCAA will give cat 1 up to BMI 35, and even above BMI35 but you may be subject to cardio test.
Yet EK has hard limit of BMI 30 or waist circumference of 102cm.
So does anyone know what FZ is? Since EK really does seem to have company limit.""
Thanks!
""ok well in that case even EK shouldn't have BMI 30 limit because GCAA will give cat 1 up to BMI 35, and even above BMI35 but you may be subject to cardio test.
Yet EK has hard limit of BMI 30 or waist circumference of 102cm.
So does anyone know what FZ is? Since EK really does seem to have company limit.""
Thanks!
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Sandy lane
Posts: 209
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I looked into this for you Eurcan...
No specific requirements on BMI, only requirement is Class 1 medical.
EK have their own in house clinc, where as FZ don't...
So to answer your question, yes you can join FZ with a high BMI provided you can pass the GCAA medical... Hope that helps.
You can find more information on GCAA website under CAR OPS
This extract is from the GCAA CAAP 19 Aeromedical
3.5.11.4.
Aeromedical Disposition
i. For the GCAA medical certification purpose the definition of obesity include:
A body mass index above 30 ,or
A waist circumference over 102 cm, female 88cm,or
A waist to hip ration of 0.9 male and 0.85 female, or
Body fat content above 25% male and 33% female.
ii. Obese applicant with incapacitation risk of >1%, must be grounded and enter a weight management program which should include dietary advice, an increased exercise regime and regular 3 monthly AME follow and should require an additional battery of tests to exclude the nutritional and metabolic disorders before issuing the medical certificate. The minimum tests required would be Lipid profile (total cholesterol, LDL, triglyceride level and HDL), Fasting Blood Sugar and calculation the overall risk of cardiovascular disease. A target weight reduction of at least 10 % their original weight over one year and all risk factors must be monitored and controlled.
iii. Obese applicants who are otherwise well and can exercise the privileges of a license safely will be certificated without restriction.
iv. Obese Individual with OSA should be managed as per the protocol of OSA.
v. If the a class I candidate with BMI of 35 or more fails to lose weight over 6 months period, or even gain more weight, the GCAA may recommend a simulator assessments with particular attention to his competency in managing emergency situations and evacuation. Multi-pilot (Class I ‘OML’) or
safety pilot (Class II ‘OSL’) limitation may be required.
vi. If the high BMI does not reflect obesity (e.g. muscular built), then other measurement to be used
as guidelines with the BMI for more accurate assessment, such as body fat percentage.
vii. Failure to comply with any or all of these points may lead to permanent unfitness.
No specific requirements on BMI, only requirement is Class 1 medical.
EK have their own in house clinc, where as FZ don't...
So to answer your question, yes you can join FZ with a high BMI provided you can pass the GCAA medical... Hope that helps.
You can find more information on GCAA website under CAR OPS
This extract is from the GCAA CAAP 19 Aeromedical
3.5.11.4.
Aeromedical Disposition
i. For the GCAA medical certification purpose the definition of obesity include:
A body mass index above 30 ,or
A waist circumference over 102 cm, female 88cm,or
A waist to hip ration of 0.9 male and 0.85 female, or
Body fat content above 25% male and 33% female.
ii. Obese applicant with incapacitation risk of >1%, must be grounded and enter a weight management program which should include dietary advice, an increased exercise regime and regular 3 monthly AME follow and should require an additional battery of tests to exclude the nutritional and metabolic disorders before issuing the medical certificate. The minimum tests required would be Lipid profile (total cholesterol, LDL, triglyceride level and HDL), Fasting Blood Sugar and calculation the overall risk of cardiovascular disease. A target weight reduction of at least 10 % their original weight over one year and all risk factors must be monitored and controlled.
iii. Obese applicants who are otherwise well and can exercise the privileges of a license safely will be certificated without restriction.
iv. Obese Individual with OSA should be managed as per the protocol of OSA.
v. If the a class I candidate with BMI of 35 or more fails to lose weight over 6 months period, or even gain more weight, the GCAA may recommend a simulator assessments with particular attention to his competency in managing emergency situations and evacuation. Multi-pilot (Class I ‘OML’) or
safety pilot (Class II ‘OSL’) limitation may be required.
vi. If the high BMI does not reflect obesity (e.g. muscular built), then other measurement to be used
as guidelines with the BMI for more accurate assessment, such as body fat percentage.
vii. Failure to comply with any or all of these points may lead to permanent unfitness.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Dubai
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Flydubai operates in to War Zones but how many aircraft have they lost to date due to that aspect of their business? Answer 0"
This comment has to win the award for most ridiculously naive comment, ever.
You have been here just how long? I assume that you know nothing about rocket attacks in Kabul, Kandahar, Bagram etc. FZ aircraft on the ground or on finals during such events. Russian cargo plane in Kabul hit by shrapnel from a rocket attack.
Tell me about the recent shooting in BGW.... I suppose that you too believe that it was a wedding party? Funny, not even the security department can keep a straight face with that one. 7 bullet holes in an aircraft and an injured young girl that was hushed up.
This comment has to win the award for most ridiculously naive comment, ever.
You have been here just how long? I assume that you know nothing about rocket attacks in Kabul, Kandahar, Bagram etc. FZ aircraft on the ground or on finals during such events. Russian cargo plane in Kabul hit by shrapnel from a rocket attack.
Tell me about the recent shooting in BGW.... I suppose that you too believe that it was a wedding party? Funny, not even the security department can keep a straight face with that one. 7 bullet holes in an aircraft and an injured young girl that was hushed up.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Emirates Living - The Meadows
Age: 79
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAAP 19 Sep 2012
The BMI limit is none of the above.
The GCAA have no issue with a Class 1 medical being issued to any pilot with a BMI of 39.9 or lower.
However if your BMI is 30-39.9 then you will have to do fasting blood tests for each medical. They are specifically looking for what the refer to as comorbidities. Having one comorbidity is ok, two makes you borderline and three would likely get you extra tests such as a treadmill VO2 Max or similar. It is entirely subjective, like most things in Dubai! If you find the right doctor then you have no issue getting a medical with a BMI of 38 if you find the wrong doctor then I know pilots with BMIs of 31 being told they risk suspension.
Comorbidities are basically risks of you dying so if you have high blood pressure, heriditary risk, waist circ greater than 102 cms, high LDL, high triglycerides, etc abnormal ECG, etc, each one of those will count against you.
If you are the ex rugby type of body i.e lots of muscle but low body fat then BMI alone is no issue.
I personally have a BMI or 34 and hvae been up to 38 and have had never had any issue or conditions placed on me medically.
EK have a hard rule as a company of 30 or below to join. It has been waived in time of need but not often. FZ made me and a few others I know personally get below 30 to join stating it was a company requirement but it is not and never has been a GCAA requirement. Anyone who tells you different is misinformed.
The GCAA CAAP 19 issued Oct 2010 revised Sep 2012 is a 194 page document available for download from the Authority website. In that document page 37 chapter 5.11 it is black and white specific as to what the standards are.
The flaw in the cunning plan is that it is written in English. That basically means that some people choose to interpret it however they want. Most of our recruiting staff are unaware of what the actual regulations are and have arbitarily turned away pilots simply based on BMI when they likely would have been fine. That said we have two cadets, at least, to my knowledge who I have spoken to and they had BMIs over 30 one over 35 on joining and never had a problem. So it completely depends on what colour underwear the recruiter is wearing, which doctor you see during the interview phase or use to do your medical.
One particular clinic here has a reputation for making money out of extra tests. Placing pilots careers at risk and placing stress on their families. I have never used them as I avoided them due to reputation but I have friends as fit as a butchers dog who had weeks of medical tests, had to carry around personal ECGs for 24/48 hr tests all at their expense to be told they were fine 4000AED later by a "specialist", often holding the same passport as the referring clinician.
The chief pilot doesn't have a BMI under 30, that said the chief pilot doesnt have a medical so it doesnt matter anymore to him.
So worry not about your weight unless you are unfit as well as heavy for height, the whole England rugby team are pretty much obese according to the 1950s test group used to make the original BMI scale. Find a doctor who gets that Thai men, Fijian men, Chinese men, Sri Lankans etc come in very different frames and you will have no issue.
If you are out here and looking then it isn't hard to find the correct doctor just ask a larger framed pilot where they go and you'll be fine! I personally have not seen a refusal of a Medical in my 4yrs of anyone I know or have heard of.
Across the runway on the other hand they love grounding their pilots!
To be fair your weight isn't the real issue. Unless you are unemployed your mental health is the thing that you should question if you choose to come here. Like has been said by the same contributors for years in this very thread. It can be a good life, however statistically you have to be lucky to benefit in the way that you expect as your actual ability has nothing to do with your progress in this airline.
There are guys here who you would follow into the cockpit purely out of curiosity who make Captain on minimum hours after 18 months and then proceed to scare the bejesus out of FOs until they get eventually get caught out or you forget as you have upgraded yourself. There are some fantastic skippers who are ignored and rideen over by mgt as they hate being proven wrong especially when they are. There however are guys who are good enough to fly fastjets in the RAF, good enough for British Ariways and in many cases have already been Skippers in other respectable enough airlines who simply fall at some ridiculous hurdle or another whilst sub standard DECs who would never get through the upgrade here are hired.
Most of the internal upgrades are amongst the best Captains we have once you are out of the top 100 seniority (the original DECs were a very different ilk and are mostly excellent)
It is easy to tell who the excellent ones are, if the management ignore or sidleine them then the more they talk them down the better they are. The best of them mostly leave unless they really don't need to be here in which case they stay for the A scale salary and roster!
The GCAA have no issue with a Class 1 medical being issued to any pilot with a BMI of 39.9 or lower.
However if your BMI is 30-39.9 then you will have to do fasting blood tests for each medical. They are specifically looking for what the refer to as comorbidities. Having one comorbidity is ok, two makes you borderline and three would likely get you extra tests such as a treadmill VO2 Max or similar. It is entirely subjective, like most things in Dubai! If you find the right doctor then you have no issue getting a medical with a BMI of 38 if you find the wrong doctor then I know pilots with BMIs of 31 being told they risk suspension.
Comorbidities are basically risks of you dying so if you have high blood pressure, heriditary risk, waist circ greater than 102 cms, high LDL, high triglycerides, etc abnormal ECG, etc, each one of those will count against you.
If you are the ex rugby type of body i.e lots of muscle but low body fat then BMI alone is no issue.
I personally have a BMI or 34 and hvae been up to 38 and have had never had any issue or conditions placed on me medically.
EK have a hard rule as a company of 30 or below to join. It has been waived in time of need but not often. FZ made me and a few others I know personally get below 30 to join stating it was a company requirement but it is not and never has been a GCAA requirement. Anyone who tells you different is misinformed.
The GCAA CAAP 19 issued Oct 2010 revised Sep 2012 is a 194 page document available for download from the Authority website. In that document page 37 chapter 5.11 it is black and white specific as to what the standards are.
The flaw in the cunning plan is that it is written in English. That basically means that some people choose to interpret it however they want. Most of our recruiting staff are unaware of what the actual regulations are and have arbitarily turned away pilots simply based on BMI when they likely would have been fine. That said we have two cadets, at least, to my knowledge who I have spoken to and they had BMIs over 30 one over 35 on joining and never had a problem. So it completely depends on what colour underwear the recruiter is wearing, which doctor you see during the interview phase or use to do your medical.
One particular clinic here has a reputation for making money out of extra tests. Placing pilots careers at risk and placing stress on their families. I have never used them as I avoided them due to reputation but I have friends as fit as a butchers dog who had weeks of medical tests, had to carry around personal ECGs for 24/48 hr tests all at their expense to be told they were fine 4000AED later by a "specialist", often holding the same passport as the referring clinician.
The chief pilot doesn't have a BMI under 30, that said the chief pilot doesnt have a medical so it doesnt matter anymore to him.
So worry not about your weight unless you are unfit as well as heavy for height, the whole England rugby team are pretty much obese according to the 1950s test group used to make the original BMI scale. Find a doctor who gets that Thai men, Fijian men, Chinese men, Sri Lankans etc come in very different frames and you will have no issue.
If you are out here and looking then it isn't hard to find the correct doctor just ask a larger framed pilot where they go and you'll be fine! I personally have not seen a refusal of a Medical in my 4yrs of anyone I know or have heard of.
Across the runway on the other hand they love grounding their pilots!
To be fair your weight isn't the real issue. Unless you are unemployed your mental health is the thing that you should question if you choose to come here. Like has been said by the same contributors for years in this very thread. It can be a good life, however statistically you have to be lucky to benefit in the way that you expect as your actual ability has nothing to do with your progress in this airline.
There are guys here who you would follow into the cockpit purely out of curiosity who make Captain on minimum hours after 18 months and then proceed to scare the bejesus out of FOs until they get eventually get caught out or you forget as you have upgraded yourself. There are some fantastic skippers who are ignored and rideen over by mgt as they hate being proven wrong especially when they are. There however are guys who are good enough to fly fastjets in the RAF, good enough for British Ariways and in many cases have already been Skippers in other respectable enough airlines who simply fall at some ridiculous hurdle or another whilst sub standard DECs who would never get through the upgrade here are hired.
Most of the internal upgrades are amongst the best Captains we have once you are out of the top 100 seniority (the original DECs were a very different ilk and are mostly excellent)
It is easy to tell who the excellent ones are, if the management ignore or sidleine them then the more they talk them down the better they are. The best of them mostly leave unless they really don't need to be here in which case they stay for the A scale salary and roster!
Last edited by Vortex Thing; 14th Jun 2015 at 20:37.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Dubai
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Too Much
Remember this post from January this year?
"FZ is a rip off company heading towards ridiculous T&C 10K for FO & 15K for skippers is a disgrace considering you will fly in to rocket attack zones & live in hell hole Dubai. They need to pay you for interview! And up those salaries by at least 30%"
Make your mind up
Remember this post from January this year?
"FZ is a rip off company heading towards ridiculous T&C 10K for FO & 15K for skippers is a disgrace considering you will fly in to rocket attack zones & live in hell hole Dubai. They need to pay you for interview! And up those salaries by at least 30%"
Make your mind up
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
]Flydubai operates in to War Zones but how many aircraft have they lost to date due to that aspect of their business? Answer 0
MH17 was shot down
German Wings was deliberately crashed
A few ATRs in Asia went down recently
Are you really that much safer in other airlines?
I get the point that it's not pleasant but the stats suggest that you will be ok.
I think personally more would leave because of the lifestyle in Dubai not to mention costs.
Realistically you need about 60,000 AED to live comfortably in Dubai today....[/QUOTE]
How many of the other companies had planes SHOT AT? SHOT AT ON THE GROUND? ARMED rebels boarding the aircraft? Hitting dogs on runways, countless other non-bird related impacts, missiles and bombs exploding at airports while they are on the ground? Mmmmmm. The good news is that the cadets will just accept all that as "the norm" 😆
MH17 was shot down
German Wings was deliberately crashed
A few ATRs in Asia went down recently
Are you really that much safer in other airlines?
I get the point that it's not pleasant but the stats suggest that you will be ok.
I think personally more would leave because of the lifestyle in Dubai not to mention costs.
Realistically you need about 60,000 AED to live comfortably in Dubai today....[/QUOTE]
How many of the other companies had planes SHOT AT? SHOT AT ON THE GROUND? ARMED rebels boarding the aircraft? Hitting dogs on runways, countless other non-bird related impacts, missiles and bombs exploding at airports while they are on the ground? Mmmmmm. The good news is that the cadets will just accept all that as "the norm" 😆
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: The Sand Pit
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PPRuNe should stand for Pissy Pilots Rumour Network. The reason that a lot of the above comments are negative is because the ones that are happy and have a life are doing something better with their time than just moan and complain. I have flown with Captains that are junior to me and some that have been here since day one. Most guys I flew with say its good here and the ones that have had enough just find something else and leave. Even some of the guys leaving still have good words to say on the way out; But the bitter ones are the vocal ones like Mr. Negativity above. War zones? Yes but its no different than anywhere else. You don't like that part then don't join but don't let the term "war zone" scare you away. As for the sad miserable guys that left or got fired and still come back to PPRUNE to vent and complain, I'm sure your departure is a mutual feeling with FZ. Every company has the good and the bad. If you are a chronic complainer and cry over parking 5 min away from base and catching a shuttle to work then you will see a lot of bad. If you come with a positive attitude and focus on the good, knowing things could be better, then you will be fine.
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Dubai
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh please....
Hey everybody, war zones are no different to anywhere else...and, if you've left FZ you're sad and miserable. Pretty bold statement for someone who hasn't been here a year.
If you go all they way back through this thread, you'll find many sad and miserable guys posting on here. Surely they all can't be wrong? Maybe, just maybe, there is some truth in their posts. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but the thing is, many posts are from people with 5 or 6 years more experience than you.
Glad you're living the dream, doesn't mean we have to keep our comments to ourselves just because you don't like what we have to say... it's a forum
Hey everybody, war zones are no different to anywhere else...and, if you've left FZ you're sad and miserable. Pretty bold statement for someone who hasn't been here a year.
If you go all they way back through this thread, you'll find many sad and miserable guys posting on here. Surely they all can't be wrong? Maybe, just maybe, there is some truth in their posts. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but the thing is, many posts are from people with 5 or 6 years more experience than you.
Glad you're living the dream, doesn't mean we have to keep our comments to ourselves just because you don't like what we have to say... it's a forum
Last edited by what-to-do; 19th Jun 2015 at 21:16.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Monrovia / Liberia
Age: 63
Posts: 757
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Skud Run, given your evident newness within FZ, one rather fears that some might call you a sanctimonious, wet-behind-the-ears, Johnny-come-lately, t_wat !
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Warrior2
Been in the pool since the beginning of March after interviewing in Miami. Just got a start date of July 26 for the induction, and a class start for the 9th of August.
Been in the pool since the beginning of March after interviewing in Miami. Just got a start date of July 26 for the induction, and a class start for the 9th of August.
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cccc
I'm a non type rated guy. I'll have waited 5 months from getting the first email to actually starting class in Dubai. It's actually shorter then I expected after reading info on hear I figured around a 6-8 month wait.
I'm a non type rated guy. I'll have waited 5 months from getting the first email to actually starting class in Dubai. It's actually shorter then I expected after reading info on hear I figured around a 6-8 month wait.