High Energy

You'll hear different responses. People say PBS works great and others say the oposite. I tend to find that the last group does not know how to use PBS.

We are currently undercrewed. The fast expansion and lots of dead head flights really puts a strain on the resources. This month, and I suspect coming months too, PBS has given many people strange rosters. Unusual allocated flights and denied requested days off. Fundamentally the system is aimed at allocating work. Since we're undercrewed there is too little room to grand all requests and you end up with unusual dead heads or a 3AM Muscat report.

@arcdu. I'm a mid level f/o. I've got;
85 block hrs
10 Off days (2 single day offs of which 1 has a preceeding day finish at 2AM and a 9PM start the following day)
1 STBY. (I'll consider this a day off due max hours already)
18 flight days

0 requested days off granted. (Now missing family holiday)
2 full night flights (1 requested)
1 night dead head to finish at 11AM
2 starts before 6AM. (1 due swap)
1 two day nightstop trip. (Swap as I like those)
1 finish around 2AM
4 long day flights (3 requested)
1 four sector day. (Usually do 1 of those every 3 months)
Only 5 requested bids were granted. Other 13 flight days are a mystery to me.

Vortac1

Just to add to what High Energy posted...

As a junior pilot you will definitely get flights into those war zones, until you're senior enough to avoid them via pbs.

Also, you should be able to get most of your days off in pairs at least. You may end up with a few single days off in your roster, but most should be in pairs.

G SXTY

I'm right hand seat, about 1 year in. This month's roster is as below:

80hrs block
9 days off (3 singles and 2 pairs)
1 STBY
3 'rest days' (which are generally 2am finishes with the rest of the day off, and followed by one of the 9 days off)
2 multi-sector days

When I started, the roster was pretty much 'get what you're given', i.e. the duties no-one else wanted. Expect lots of 4 sector days and Kabuls for the first few months.

Within the space of a year though, my roster has improved noticeably. This month I have around 50% of the flights I requested, and no 'challenging' destinations, which suits me perfectly. That said, I am realistic in what I bid for - there's no point in requesting a month of long day flights as I won't get them. It's rare to have a logbook entry with no night flying.

If there's one whinge, it's that I find it almost impossible to get requested days off. For me that's a much bigger lifestyle issue than where I fly to. Overall though, the roster is do-able and the trend is improving.

Flyboy_SG

Thanks for the info G60 & HE.


What's the current policy and wait time for upgrade? Does the previous time on the NG count or its purely based on seniority?

arcdu

Thanks for the answers everyone,

Another question, the guidance FD give says that no leave can be taken for the first six months until the end of the probationary period. As a current type rated applicant I have been told that the training time is fairly minimal, so is this strictly adhered to.

If so potentially it seems that I could be released to the line after about two months or less, then have four months or more of deep night flying etc with no more than two days off in a row to recover at any point.

High Energy

@ arcdu. That is indeed the rule. I believe they may assign leave earlier but only IF there are slots available. Usually you'll then be awarded a slot close to the end of your probationary period. We're under crewed so don't keep your hopes up.

@FSG They are desperate for captains and prefer internal upgrades. Lot's of f/o's just simply don't have the TT, Time on type, or meet the sim recurrent requirements. They currently upgrade around 6 f/o's a month IIRC.

For any upgrade, rrated-and-non-rated you'll need;

4000hrs TT
1000hrs 737, minimum 500hrs @ Flydubai
2 Successful LPC/OPC checks with Flydubai
12 months at Flydubai since successful line check.

what-to-do

Arcdu,

That's a pretty fair assumption. More specifically, you'll be in that position for the foreseeable future too. Every FO that is in the company today will, at some point, upgrade to left seat and climb above you when it comes to the PBS rostering system.

I'm guessing that we have around 500-600 pilots..... you do the math.

WTD

Voodoo 3

No my friend, no they will not. What they WILL be able to do however is to apply for the upgrade and at that point, if accepted, will begin the process to move to the left hand seat. They will then have to pass the interview, simulator training and checking, line flying under supervision, line checks and only then will they be able to sit in the left seat.

Too many people think that the command here is a given and a right and not something that you earn through hard work and the like. With that sort of attitude, it is plain to see why there have been a number of failures at all stages of the process.

Kefuddle

The vast majority of FOs want to upgrade, and the vast majority of those pass and move to the left, so the point being made is solid.

what-to-do

Voodoo3,

Don't get your knickers in a twist. I assumed that those reading the post would take it for granted that anyone applying for a command would need to meet FZ standards in order to achieve their goal, as in any company. I didn't expect anyone to post a comment to say as much.

You refer to my attitude, really? There is absolutely nothing wrong with my attitude. I have simply made reference to that fact that any DEC that joins tomorrow, will "POTENTIALLY" be in a position whereby, all the FOs presently employed by the company "COULD" at some point move above the DEC with respect to the rosters and PBS, should they upgrade.

Just for the record, selection for command upgrade does not guarantee upgrade, conditions apply.......

Voodoo 3

WTD,

My reference to attitude in my post was not directed to you and your post, I apologize. It was more towards those in the right hand seat some whom have been overheard saying things like, 'yeah, I'll get my command next year' or 'it'll be my turn soon'.

People think that it is a given that they will get it and as soon as they begin the process they realize that it isn't and hence why there have been quite a number who have not passed.

Peace brethren.

what-to-do

No problem.

I don't totally disagree with your point, but I guess it's a different topic to the one I was attempting to make.

To be honest, I think there is some good in the fact that FOs, as I once was, think or talk positively about their upgrade. I have never come across anyone at FZ that hasn't worked hard to meet the standard required, but unfortunately, some people will occasionally fall short of the mark. I don't necessarily think it's just down to their attitude.

Dish dash designer

Can anyone explain why PBS has suddenly started to fail the group? Have they broken a promise or is it just some group rotation? I can see the future of these broken promises if NOV turns out bad

samca

Hi , I have one simple question. If you are a type rated pilot are you also bonded?,

Cheers

Kefuddle

Yes, can't remember how much without digging out my contract, but something like 50K USD reducing over three years.

samca

Really?, don't understand why I have to be bonded if I'm a type rated pilot.

Flyboy_SG

Thanks @H.E

I have about 3K on NG.So atleast 2 years at FZ for seat change.


Command as such is a tough nut to crack everywhere. I don't think anyone has ever got it easily, wherever it may be.


Here in India for command, Interview followed by sim suitability, Ground school(80% < hardcore performance !!!) 6 session sim followed by couple of checks, 100 hr Left seat LOFT followed by 10 route checks. A route check has to be 3 sectors min. If one fails one route check, he will start over with the LOFT all over !


By the time one passes the 10th Route check, he becomes numb and doesnt feel anything !

flydream1982

[QUOTE]Yes, can't remember how much without digging out my contract, but something like 50K USD reducing over three years. [QUOTE]


The bond being 36K USD reducing over 3 years for non type rated, the bond for rated guys is much lower. Around 20K USD I believe...

Vortex Thing

I was type rated and had $24,000 (USD). The non type rated who joined with me had contracts stating $36,000 (USD) reducing $1000 per month.

May have changed but I don't believe so.

I never know why some pilots get so excited about bonds. Let's be honst its not real money. Just don't leave then it isn't an issue! Who cares if is it's $1,000,000 you only have to pay it if you leave!!

Not sure how hard it is for people to grasp who keep asing the same recurring question about PBS and rosters.

Basically if you are at the top end of the roster you work 5-7 days of your choice per month. You get off whatever days you ask for, you can basically fly 6 flights to Russia and then have 22 days off.

If you are at the bottom you work 22 days per month, never get your requests fly lots of double sectors and gulf flights or warzones in the middle of the night.

Somewhere in between is in between!

You go from the bottom to the top in about 2.5-3 yrs new joiners perhaps 4yrs and you can expect a shot at command somewhere around 2-3 yrs. if you have the hours on type alreay we have had new joines promote inside 18 months recently!

Its a job you get paid! They pay you more than anyone else on this type so what is there to work out! You are welcome to not come and be employed elsewhere and/or be employed for less elsehwere. If someone can tell me a carrier where we can earn more money flying the B737 NG THAT IS NOT in the US and NOT corporate BBJ work then please feel free to tell me!

jetstreem

One word.

China.

Not that I'm planning on going there any time soon, but if you're chasing the money and don't have ties to anywhere in particular, that's where to go. FZ's ok moneywise, but the math doesn't always quite add up. If you come from somewhere where your cost of living was considerably cheaper than Dubai (most of the world, outside the big western cities), and especially if you're supporting a family on a single salary and in the R.H. seat, then don't expect to save as much as you perhaps first thought!

A lot of people who are renewing (or getting new) housing contracts are paying in the region of 100-120k AED (1 bed in a nice area) 150-160k (2 bed) or 160-200k for a 3 bed 'villa'. So if you have a family, you're likely to have to spend over your allowance, just to get somewhere to fit you all in! And that's before bills, flights home etc etc.

All I'm saying is DO THE MATH(s)!!